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Exon Shuffling, and the Origins of Protein Folds

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800px-Protein_structure.png

A frequently made claim in the scientific literature is that protein domains can be readily recombined to form novel folds. In Darwin’s Doubt, Stephen Meyer addresses this subject in detail (see Chapter 11). Over the course of this article, I want to briefly expand on what was said there.

Defining Our Terms

Before going on, it may be useful for me to define certain key terms and concepts. I will be referring frequently to “exons” and “introns.” Exons are sections of genes that code for proteins; whereas introns are sections of genes that don’t code for proteins.Introns and exons.png

Proteins have multiple structural levels. Primary structure refers to the linear sequence of amino acids comprising the protein chain. When segments within this chain fold into structures such as helices and loops, this is referred to as secondary structure. Common units of secondary structure include α-helices and β-strands. Tertiary structure is the biologically active form of the protein, and refers to the packing of secondary structural elements into domains. Since a protein’s tertiary structure optimizes the forces of attraction between amino acids, it is the most stable form of the protein. When multiple folded domains are arranged in a multi-subunit complex, it is referred to as a quaternary structure.

A further concept is domain shuffling. This is the hypothesis that fundamentally new protein folds can be created by recombining already-existing domains. This is thought to be accomplished by moving exons from one part of the genome to another (exon shuffling). There are various ways in which exon shuffling might be achieved, and it is to this subject that I now turn.

The Mechanisms of Exon Shuffling

There are several ways in which exon shuffling may occur. Exon shuffling can be transposon-mediated, or it can occur as a result of crossover during meiosis and recombination between non-homologous or (less frequently) short homologous DNA sequences. Alternative splicing is also thought to play a role in facilitating exon shuffling.

When domain shuffling occurs as a result of crossover during sexual recombination, it is hypothesized that it takes place in three stages (called the “modularization hypothesis”). First, introns are gained at positions that correspond to domain boundaries, forming a “protomodule.” Introns are typically longer than exons, and thus the majority of crossover events take place in the noncoding regions. Second, within the inserted introns, the newly formed protomodule undergoes tandem duplication. Third, intronic recombination facilitates the movement of the protomodule to a different, non-homologous, gene.

Another hypothesized mechanism for domain shuffling involves transposable elements such as LINE-1 retroelements and Helitron transposons, as well as LTR retroelements. LINE-1 elements are transcribed into an mRNA that specifies proteins called ORF1 and ORF2, both of which are essential for the process of transposition. LINE-1 frequently associates with 3′ flanking DNA, transporting the flanking sequence to a new locus somewhere else on the genome (Ejima and Yang, 2003Moran et al., 1999Eickbush, 1999). This association can happen if the weak polyadenylation signal of the LINE-1 element is bypassed during transcription, causing downstream exons to be included on the RNA transcript. Since LINE-1’s are “copy-and-paste” elements (i.e. they transpose via an RNA intermediate), the donor sequence remains unaltered.

Long-terminal repeat (LTR) retrotransposons have also been established to facilitate exon shuffling, notably in rice (e.g. Zhang et al., 2013Wang et al., 2006). LTR retrotransposons possess a gag and a pol gene. The pol gene translates into a polyprotein composed of an aspartic protease (which cleaves the polyprotein), and various other enzymes including reverse transcriptase (which reverse transcribes RNA into DNA), integrase (used for integrating the element into the host genome), and Rnase H (which serves to degrade the RNA strand of the RNA-DNA hybrid, resulting in single-stranded DNA). Like LINE-1 elements, LTR retrotransposons transpose in a “copy-and-paste” fashion via an RNA intermediate. There are a number of subfamilies of LTR retrotransposons, including endogenous retroviruses, Bel/Pao, Ty1/copia, and Ty3/gypsy.

Alternative splicing by exon skipping is also believed to play a role in exon shuffling (Keren et al., 2010). Alternative splicing allows the exons of a pre-mRNA transcript to be spliced into a number of different isoforms to produce multiple proteins from the same transcript. This is facilitated by the joining of a 5′ donor site of one intron to the 3′ site of another intron downstream, resulting in the “skipping” of exons that lie in between. This process may result in introns flanking exons. If this genomic structure is reinserted somewhere else in the genome, the result is exon shuffling.There are of course other mechanisms that are hypothesized to play a role in exon shuffling. But this will suffice for our present purposes. Next, we will look at the evidence for and against domain shuffling as an explanation for the origin of new protein folds.

Introns Early vs. Introns Late

It was hypothesized fairly early, after the discovery of introns in vertebrate genes, that they could have contributed to the evolution of proteins. In a 1978 article in Nature, Walter Gilbert first proposed that exons could be independently assorted by recombination within introns (Gilbert, 1978). Gilbert also hypothesized that introns are in fact relics of the original RNA world (Gilbert, 1986). According to the “exons early” hypothesis, all protein-coding genes were created from exon modules — coding for secondary structural elements (such as α-helices, β-sheets, signal peptides, or transmembrane helices) or folding domains — by a process of intron-mediated recombination (Gilbert and Glynias, 1993Dorit et al., 1990).

The alternative “introns late” scenario proposed that introns only appeared much later in the genes of eukaryotes (Hickey and Benkel, 1986Sharp, 1985Cavalier-Smith, 1985Orgel and Crick, 1980). Such a scenario renders exon shuffling moot in accounting for the origins of the most ancient proteins.

The “introns early” hypothesis was the dominant view in the 1980s. The frequently cited evidence for this was the then widespread belief in the general correspondence between exon-intron structure and protein secondary structure.

From the mid 1980s, this view became increasingly untenable, however, as new information came to light (e.g. see Palmer and Logsdon, 1991; and Patthy, 1996199419911987) that raised doubts about a general correlation between protein structure and intron-exon structure. Such a correspondence is not borne out in many ancient protein-coding genes. Moreover, the apparently clearest examples of exon shuffling all took place fairly late in the evolution of eukaryotes, becoming significant only at the time of the emergence of the first multicellular animals (Patthy,19961994).

In addition, analysis of intron splicing junctions suggested a similar pattern of late-arising exon shuffling. The location where introns are inserted and interrupt the protein’s reading frame determines whether exons can be recombined, duplicated or deleted by intronic recombination without altering the downstream reading frame of the modified protein (Patthy, 1987). Introns can be grouped according to three “phases”: Phase 0 introns insert between two consecutive codons; phase 1 introns insert between the first and second nucleotide of a codon; and phase 2 introns insert between the second and third nucleotide.

Thus, if exon shuffling played a major role in protein evolution, we should expect a characteristic intron phase distribution. But the hypothetical modules of ancient proteins do not conform to such expectations (Patthy, 19911987).

It is clear, then, that exon shuffling (at the very least) is unlikely to explain the origins of the most ancient proteins that have emerged in the history of life. But is this mechanism adequate to explain the origins of later proteins such as those that arise in the evolution of eukaryotes? I now turn to evaluate the evidence pro-and-con for the role of exon shuffling in protein origins.

The Case for Exon Shuffling

What, then, are the best arguments for exon shuffling? If the thesis is correct, a prediction would be that exon boundaries should correlate strongly with protein domains. In other words, one exon should code for a single protein domain. One argument, therefore, points to the fact that there is a statistically significant correlation between exon boundaries and protein domains (e.g., see Liu et al., 2005 and Liu and Grigoriev, 2004).

However, there are many, many examples where this correspondence does not hold. In many cases, single exons code for multiple domains. For instance, protocadhedrin genes typically involve large exons coding for multiple domains (Wu and Maniatis, 2000). In other cases, multiple exons are required to specify a single domain (e.g. see Ramasarma et al., 2012; or Buljan et al., 2010).

A further argument for the role of exon shuffling in protein evolution is the intron phase distributions found in the exons coding for protein domains in humans. In 2002, Henrik Kaessmann and colleagues reported that “introns at the boundaries of domains show high excess of symmetrical phase combinations (i.e., 0-0, 1-1, and 2-2), whereas nonboundary introns show no excess symmetry” (Kaessmann, 2002). Their conclusion was thus that “exon shuffling has primarily involved rearrangement of structural and functional domains as a whole.” They also performed a similar analysis on the nematode worm Caenorhabditis elegans, finding that “Although the C. elegans data generally concur with the human patterns, we identified fewer intron-bounded domains in this organism, consistent with the lower complexity of C. elegans genes.”

Another line of evidence relates to genes that appear to be chimeras of parent genes. These are typically associated with signs indicative of its mode of origin. One famous example is the jingweigene in Drosophila, which may have arisen when “the sequence of the processed Adh [alcohol dehydrogenase] messenger RNA became part of a new functional gene by capturing several upstream exons and introns of an unrelated gene” (Long and Langley, 1993).

We must take care, however, not to confuse the observed pattern of intron phase distribution, or exon/domain mapping, with proof that exon shuffling is actually the process by which this pattern arose.

Perhaps common ancestry is the cause, but this must be demonstrated and not assumed. It is the biologist’s duty to determine whether unintelligent chance-based mechanisms actually can produce novel genes in this manner. It is to this question that I now turn.

The Problems with Domain Shuffling as an Explanation for Protein Folds

While the hypothesis of exon shuffling does, taken at face value, have some attractive elements, it suffers from a number of problems. For one thing, the model at its core presupposes the prior existence of protein domains. A protein’s lower-level secondary structures (α-helices and β-strands) exist stably only in the context of the tertiary structures in which they are found. In other words, the domain level is the lowest level at which self-contained stable structural modules exist. This leaves the origins of these domains in the first place unaccounted for. But stable and functional protein domains are demonstrably rare within amino-acid sequence space (e.g. Axe, 2010Axe, 2004Taylor et al., 2001Keefe and Szostak, 2001Reidhaar-Olson and Sauer, 1990Salisbury, 1969).

A fairly recent study examined many different combinations of E. coli secondary structural elements (α-helices, β-strands and loops), assembling them “semirandomly into sequences comprised of as many as 800 amino acid residues” (Graziano et al., 2008). The researchers screened 108 variants for features that might suggest folded structure. They failed, however, to find any folded protein structures. Reporting on this study, Axe (2010) writes:

“After a definitive demonstration that the most promising candidates were not properly folded, the authors concluded that “the selected clones should therefore not be viewed as ‘native-like’ proteins but rather ‘molten-globule-like'”, by which they mean that secondary structure is present only transiently flickering in and out of existence along a compact but mobile chain. This contrasts with native-like structure, where secondary structure is locked-in to form a well defined and stable tertiary fold. Their finding accords well with what we should expect in view of the above considerations. Indeed, it would be very puzzling if secondary structure were modular.”

“For those elements to work as robust modules,” explains Axe, “their structure would have to be effectively context-independent, allowing them to be combined in any number of ways to form new folds.” In the case of protein secondary structure, however, this requirement is not met.

The model also seems to require that the diversity and disparity of functions carried out by proteins in the cell can in principle originate by mixing and matching prior existing domains. But this presupposes the ability of blind evolutionary processes to account for a specific “toolbox” of domains that can be recombined in various ways to yield new functions. This seems unlikely, especially in light of the estimation that “1000 to 7000 exons were needed to construct all proteins” (Dorit et al., 1990). In other words, a primordial toolkit of thousands of diverse protein domains needs to be constructed before the exon shuffling hypothesis even becomes a possibility. And even then there are severe problems.

A further issue relates to interface compatibility. The domain shuffling hypothesis in many cases requires the formation of new binding interfaces. Since amino acids that comprise polypeptide chains are distinguished from one another by the specificity of their side-chains, however, the binding interfaces that allow units of secondary structure (i.e. α-helices and β-strands) to come together to form elements of tertiary structure is dependent upon the specific sequence of amino acids. That is to say, it is non-generic in the sense that it is strictly dependent upon the particulars of the components. Domains that must bind and interact with one another can’t simply be pieced together like jenga tiles.

In his 2010 paper in the journal BIO-Complexity Douglas Axe reports on an experiment conducted using β-lactamase enzymes which illustrates this difficulty (Axe, 2010). Take a look at the following figure, excerpted from the paper:

Beta lactamase comparison.png

The top half of the figure (labeled “A”) reveals the ribbon structure of the TEM-1 β-lactamase (left) and the PER-1 β-lactamase (right). The bottom half of the figure (labeled “B”) reveals the backbone alignments for the two corresponding domains in the two proteins. Note the high level of structural similarity between the two enzymes. Axe attempted to recombine sections of the two genes to produce a chimeric protein from the domains colored green and red. Since the two parent enzymes exhibit extremely high levels of structural and functional similarity, this should be expected to work. No detectable function was identified in the chimeric construct, though, presumably as a consequence of the substantial dissimilarity between the respective amino-acid sequences and the interface incompatibility between the two domains.

This isn’t by any means the only study demonstrating the difficulty of shuffling domains to form new functional proteins. Another study by Axe (2000) described “a set of hybrid sequences” from “the 50%-identical TEM-1 and Proteus mirabilis β-lactamases,” which were created such that the “hybrids match[ed] the TEM-1 sequence except for a region at the C-terminal end, where they [were] random composites of the two parents.” The results? “All of these hybrids are biologically inactive.”

In fact, in the few cases where protein chimeras do possess detectable function, it only works for the precise reason that the researchers used an algorithm (developed by Meyer et al., 2006) to carefully select the sections of a protein structure that possess the fewest side-chain interactions with the rest of the fold, and chose parent proteins with relatively high sequence identity (Voigt et al., 2002). This only serves to underscore the problem. Even in the Voigt study, the success rate was quite low, even with highly favorable circumstances, with only one in five chimeras possessing discernible functionality.

Conclusion

To conclude, although there is some indirect inferential evidence for the role of exon shuffling in protein evolution, a consideration of how such a process might work in reality reveals that the hypothesis itself is fraught with severe difficulties.

This article was originally published at Evolution News & Views (part 1; part 2)

Comments
gpuccio: the paper explores if we can engineer specific biological functions from random peptides. We can. The paper shows that the functional proteins existed in the original set of random sequences.Zachriel
February 24, 2015
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Yes, unguided evolution is irrelevant and unscientific.Joe
February 24, 2015
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Irrelevant, as usual Joe.Hangonasec
February 24, 2015
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DNA_Jock:
In the published studies, the proteins did not have catalytic activity.
So, you agree that Zachriel was wrong. And I was right.
The term “enzymatic” is ambiguous and, in this context, irrelevant.
The term "enzymatic" is not ambiguous at all. And it was Zachriel who used it, not I. So, just tell him that it is irrelevant.
The paper explores whether random peptides can evolve specific biological functions. They can.
No. As it is, the paper explores if we can engineer specific biological functions from random peptides. We can. Note that making "random peptides" the subject of "evolve" does not change things. It is only a verbal trick.
No, it is a much stronger statement – binding is necessary AND SUFFICIENT for ‘enzymatic’ activity (although the reaction catalyzed might be difficult to assay…).
No. Binding is not sufficient for enzymatic activity. Binding in itself is not catalysis.
how does an enzyme catalyze a reaction? Answer: if and only if it binds with high affinity and specificity to the _________ state.
This is wrong. The correct form is that catalytic activity implies binding, but binding does not imply catalytic activity.
So, in this context, “binding” is the same thing as having “enzymatic activity”.
In what context? Where is your logic? However, I stick to my choice: I will not say it.gpuccio
February 24, 2015
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Random, wrt evolution, means accidental, happenstance, errors and mistakes. There isn't anything useful from such a concept. It cannot be tested which means it is outside of scienceJoe
February 24, 2015
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JimFit @40
Again i think its a wrong definition to describe something, better use the word incalculable not random.
No - better to use the word 'stochastic'. Which people often do, precisely because there are 4 or 5 non-synonymous meanings of the word 'random'. But it's easy enough to just say 'random', apart from the fact that even after clarification you end up down these rabbit-holes with people who argue that you don't mean what you actually SAY you mean when you use the word!
Randomness doesn’t exist when there is something even if that something is a variable.
What if that something is a random variable? This is precisely how mathematicians use the term. Dice throwing is a random process. Throwing a weighted dice is also a random process. Randomness in the mathematical sense of 'stochastic' does exist 'when there is something'. Nobody - not even atheists, hee hee! - is suggesting that mutation or fixation are uncaused or result purely from unknown mechanism. As in your original statement:
When in science something is random it doesn’t mean what the atheists think, something random is something that we cannot determine its cause yet.
Hangonasec
February 24, 2015
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gpuccio: Zachriel has more tha one time explicitly stated that the initial proteins in SzostaK’s library showed enzymatic activity, and that binding is the same thing as enzymatic activity. You objected to the term "function", so we meant to indicate that binding is a basic activity of enzymes. We apologize for the confusion. Nomenclature has nothing to do with the underlying finding, of course. The study showed that functional proteins occur in random sequences at a frequency of about 10^-11.Zachriel
February 24, 2015
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DNA_Jock: Your interventions become strangely unfair and out of context as soon as the Szostak paper is mentioned. Strange.
Well, I evidently know more about the Szostak technology than you do. If you feel that’s unfair, the solution is entirely within your own hands.
Zachriel has more tha one time explicitly stated that the initial proteins in SzostaK’s library showed enzymatic activity, and that binding is the same thing as enzymatic activity. That is completely wrong, as you should know, and Dr JDD and I have simply tried to explain that simple fact to him. There is no special problem, everyone can be wrong, but it is better to acknowledge it when one is wrong.
In the published studies, the proteins did not have catalytic activity.
So, do you want to be wrong with Zachriel? Are you defending the statement that binding is the same thing as having an enzymatic activity? And that the paper says that the initial proteins had an enzymatic activity? Just to know.
The term “enzymatic” is ambiguous and, in this context, irrelevant. The paper explores whether random peptides can evolve specific biological functions. They can.
If, instead, you are trying simply to say the very trivial thing that binding is necessary for an enzymatic activity, which is so obvious that nobody in his own mind would try to deny it, and pretend that this is a refutation of what Dr JDD and I have said, then you are not simply a fool and an unfair discussant: you are…
No, it is a much stronger statement – binding is necessary AND SUFFICIENT for ‘enzymatic’ activity (although the reaction catalyzed might be difficult to assay…). Did you bother to read what I wrote, viz:
Riddle me this: how does an enzyme catalyze a reaction? Answer: if and only if it binds with high affinity and specificity to the _________ state.
??? So, in this context, “binding” is the same thing as having “enzymatic activity”. Just fill in the blank above. For the fourth time:
They also had a technical problem in optimizing catalysis, but that limitation would not apply in actual living systems.
I will not say it.
Why hold back? You have already accused me of quote-mining. Impugn my motives all you want, but please, please learn some biochemistry.DNA_Jock
February 24, 2015
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DNA_Jock: Your interventions become strangely unfair and out of context as soon as the Szostak paper is mentioned. Strange. Zachriel has more tha one time explicitly stated that the initial proteins in SzostaK's library showed enzymatic activity, and that binding is the same thing as enzymatic activity. That is completely wrong, as you should know, and Dr JDD and I have simply tried to explain that simple fact to him. There is no special problem, everyone can be wrong, but it is better to acknowledge it when one is wrong. So, do you want to be wrong with Zachriel? Are you defending the statement that binding is the same thing as having an enzymatic activity? And that the paper says that the initial proteins had an enzymatic activity? Just to know. If, instead, you are trying simply to say the very trivial thing that binding is necessary for an enzymatic activity, which is so obvious that nobody in his own mind would try to deny it, and pretend that this is a refutation of what Dr JDD and I have said, then you are not simply a fool and an unfair discussant: you are... I will not say it.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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Good points above, but realize that catalytic activities have been repeatedly isolated from very short (7 amino acid) peptides: http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2014/03/short-amyloid-peptides-self-assemble-catalyst-enzymeREC
February 23, 2015
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Dr JDD wrote:
Biotin has an affinity for streptavidin (very very high).
Well, it would be a lot more accurate to say that streptavidin has a very high affinity for biotin. And that streptavidin has an important biological function, i.e. binding biotin.
An antibody has an affinity for an epitope / antigen. Often very high. Often inhibitory (blocking) in the case of a therapeutic.
Exactly, another example of a useful, biological function. Thus BMS-962476 binds to Proprotein convertase subtilisin kexin-9 and inhibits it, thereby lowering LDL levels. It’s a rather interesting alternative to anti-PCSK9 antibodies, such as evolocumab, bococizumab, and alirocumab, of which I am sure you have heard. How was this BMS-962476 developed? Using the Szostak technology… So, after reading your opening two paragraphs, I assumed you were supporting Zachriel’s position.
I cannot believe we have to debate if an enzyme and having an affinity for something are the same thing. How ridiculous.
It is rather ridiculous. Riddle me this: how does an enzyme catalyze a reaction? Answer: if and only if it binds with high affinity and specificity to the _________ state. Gpuccio wrote
However, I would say that Zachriel has at least one minor justification: he is not a biologist or medical doctor, and he has probably been confounded by the ambiguity of the paper itself.
Well, Zachriel seems to have a much better understanding of the Szostak protein evolution technology than the medical doctors here. Sad, since I have explained this to gpuccio twice already, writing
Phylos Inc demonstrated that using libraries of sizes of ~ 10^13 (e.g. USP 6,261,804), you could evolve peptides that bound to pretty much ANYTHING. Unfortunately, I can’t get much more specific, but here’s a “statement against interest”: the libraries produced better binders if the random peptide was anchored by an invariant ‘scaffold’. They used fibronectin, but I suspect that a bit of beta sheet at each end of the random peptide would have done the trick. They also had a technical problem in optimizing catalysis, but that limitation would not apply in actual living systems.
DNA_Jock
February 23, 2015
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Anyways, the definition generally preferred is the one that corresponds to ‘stochastic’, which is in line with usage in mathematics, statistics, physics and engineering. Mutation, fixation etc are random merely in the sense of having a probability distribution. It is not a statement about causality.
Again i think its a wrong definition to describe something, better use the word incalculable not random. Randomness doesn't exist when there is something even if that something is a variable.JimFit
February 23, 2015
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The main point of the szostak paper is that they found function relatively easily and with a frequency that resembles today's sequence libraries. It seems like a simple and straightforward paper. Don't forget that a molecule binding to a protein, especially one with as much potential energy as an NTP, will induce a conformational change in that protein. Simply binding ATP still serves various functions in cells today.Curly Howard
February 23, 2015
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Dr JDD: Are these all enzymes then? No, but binding is a protein function often found in enzymes. gpuccio: They did not simply “amplify” the proteins, they intentionally “mutagenized” them, using mutagenic PCR, and selected them again, in rounds. That's correct, and the process of selection resulted in increasing affinity.Zachriel
February 23, 2015
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Dr JDD: You are perfectly right, obviously. However, I would say that Zachriel has at least one minor justification: he is not a biologist or medical doctor, and he has probably been confounded by the ambiguity of the paper itself. That ambiguity, instead, has no justification at all, coming from people who certainly know what they are doing and what they are writing.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel: I am sorry, but you are flat wrong. From the paper:
Single representatives of each of these protein families (round 8) were chosen for further study. Only 5±15% of the mRNA-displayed protein prepared from each of these clones binds to immobilized ATP and then elutes with free ATP under selection conditions, consistent with the 6.2% binding and elution with ATP for the library as a whole. One possible explanation for this low level of ATP-binding is conformational heterogeneity, possibly reflecting inefficient folding of these primordial protein sequences. In an effort to increase the proportion of these proteins that fold into an ATP-binding conformation, we mutagenized the library and carried out further rounds of in vitro selection and amplification.
Emphasis added. It is very clear. They did not simply "amplify" the proteins, they intentionally "mutagenized" them, using mutagenic PCR, and selected them again, in rounds. Your position is indefensible, I am sorry for you.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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Biotin has an affinity for streptavidin (very very high). An antibody has an affinity for an epitope / antigen. Often very high. Often inhibitory (blocking) in the case of a therapeutic. SiRNA has affinity for RNA. Are these all enzymes then? I cannot believe we have to debate if an enzyme and having an affinity for something are the same thing. How ridiculous.Dr JDD
February 23, 2015
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JimFit @33 - atheists ...? Anyways, the definition generally preferred is the one that corresponds to 'stochastic', which is in line with usage in mathematics, statistics, physics and engineering. Mutation, fixation etc are random merely in the sense of having a probability distribution. It is not a statement about causality.Hangonasec
February 23, 2015
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I hear a lot of atheists that use the wrong definition of Randomness in Science, True Randomness can exist only in a state of Nothingness, something random is something that isn't determined by anything nor it determines something, that can happen only in a state of absolute Nothingness since Nothing lucks any law or any cause that could determine something. When in science something is random it doesn't mean what the atheists think, something random is something that we cannot determine its cause yet.JimFit
February 23, 2015
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gpuccio: If the statement is about the proteins in the original library, the only “function” is a weak binding of ATP. Yes, that is the function they chose to look for. gpuccio: The whole paper used methodologically incorrect (in the context) procedures of artificial engineering to transform that basic “function”, which could be better defined as a simple chemical reaction, into something that could look a little bit more as a true “function” (strong binding of ATP. and some gross folding). It wasn't a simple chemical reaction—whatever you think that means—, but a rough structure necessary to bind to ATP, with directed evolution increasing its specificity. gpuccio: If the original sequences were already “functional proteins”, as stated in the final paragraph, why not simply analyze them and describe their function? Because they are rare and difficult to isolate, they are repeatedly amplified. After several rounds of amplification, they determined they were binding ATP, and that they were descendents from just a few of the original molecules.Zachriel
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel: Please, don't insist. Binding a ligand is obviously necessary to catalyze a chemical reaction in which that ligand takes part. But binding in itself is not an enzymatic activity. As I said before, some basic enzymatic activity was found later in a late derivative of the protein in the paper, but certainly not in the original molecules in the random library, where even the binding was really weak. I asked you where in the paper it was stated that "The original random protein exhibited enzymatic activity", as you had said. You quoted the following paragraph: “The frequency of occurrence of functional proteins in random sequence libraries appears to be similar to that observed for equivalent RNA libraries… In conclusion, we suggest that functional proteins are sufficiently common in protein sequence space (roughly 1 in 10^11) that they may be discovered by entirely stochastic means, such as presumably operated when proteins were first used by living organisms.” which makes no mention at all of "enzymatic activity". The reason I think that the paragraph (and the paper) is wrong is that it exploits the essential ambiguity of the word "functional". If the statement is about the proteins in the original library, the only "function" is a weak binding of ATP. The whole paper used methodologically incorrect (in the context) procedures of artificial engineering to transform that basic "function", which could be better defined as a simple chemical reaction, into something that could look a little bit more as a true "function" (strong binding of ATP. and some gross folding). Why? If the original sequences were already "functional proteins", as stated in the final paragraph, why not simply analyze them and describe their function? Why derive a new protein from them by protein engineering, and center all the discussion on that final result? Pretending maybe that the same process could happen by natural selection? Bad methodology, bad paper, ambiguous discussion.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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gpuccio: Could you please explain what is the chemical reaction whose rate is increased by the participation of the proteins found in the original library? Binding is a basic process found in enzymes. You might also look at Seelig & Szostak, Selection and evolution of enzymes from a partially randomized non-catalytic scaffold, Nature 2007, which resulted in the isolation of novel ligases. gpuccio: And the “suggestion” you quote is exactly the wrong conclusion that is not supported in any way by the facts in the paper. Your question was where in the paper the statement was found. Why do you think Szostak is incorrect in his conclusions?Zachriel
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel: From Wikipedia: "Enzymes are macromolecular biological catalysts." "Catalysis is the increase in the rate of a chemical reaction due to the participation of an additional substance called a catalyst." Could you please explain what is the chemical reaction whose rate is increased by the participation of the proteins found in the original library? A simple advice: if you are not sure of the meaning of a word, just avoid using it. And the "suggestion" you quote is exactly the wrong conclusion that is not supported in any way by the facts in the paper. That's why I say that it is a bad paper.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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gpuccio: Could you please point to where in the paper that is stated? Essentially the entire paper. "The frequency of occurrence of functional proteins in random sequence libraries appears to be similar to that observed for equivalent RNA libraries... In conclusion, we suggest that functional proteins are sufficiently common in protein sequence space (roughly 1 in 10^11) that they may be discovered by entirely stochastic means, such as presumably operated when proteins were first used by living organisms." gpuccio: It means that they bound ATP weakly, not that they had enzymatic activity. Binding is a basic enzymatic activity, the purpose being to discriminate between all the various molecules in the cell.Zachriel
February 23, 2015
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Hangonasec: Knockout rescue experiments are certainly more appropriate as models of NS. That is exactly the difference with the Szostak paper. However, those experiments have limitations too. You have anticipated a couple of them, and I could add a few others. As I am rather busy at the moment, and I owe a few answers to Piotr and Zachriel, I will not engage in that discussion immediately. But if you are interested, we can certainly deepen the discussion. The paper you point to is probably not the only one of that kind, and I am available to analyze that kind of approach in as much detail as I can.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel: "The original random protein exhibited enzymatic activity" I don't think so. Could you please point to where in the paper that is stated? "What do you think “weak affinity” means?" It means that they bound ATP weakly, not that they had enzymatic activity.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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gpuccio: The original proteins in the library were random, but the final protein, which is the only one analyzed in the paper for folding etc., was engineered. The original random protein exhibited enzymatic activity. gpuccio: The proteins in the original library were not “active enzymes” at all. They were sequences with some weak affinity for ATP. What do you think "weak affinity" means?Zachriel
February 23, 2015
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Synthetic peptides rescue function in E coli. Now, the purpose of the experiment was not to demonstrate evolution, but to investigate synthetic peptide manufacture. The basic repeat was 'designed' (more accurately, reverse-engineered from a 14-bit residue sequence pattern known to produce stable helical folds). But from a tiny library of 1.6 million variants (out of 10^53 possible variants), they found 4 different peptides which rescued 4/27 different auxotrophic knockout mutants. So these do have biological activity, and it would not be a huge surprise if they performed better than the knockouts in a selective competition. Given that only 27 knockouts were tried, out of 4000+ genes multiplied by however million species there are on earth that could have been tried, this is a remarkable hit rate. Of course they didn't start from scratch, so shelve that objection, but they certainly didn't design the peptides with any of the 4 functions in mind. It's recent work, so the peptides need to be characterised and the mechanism of replacement elucidated. But as it stands, it certainly points towards a richness of biological function in protein space that is at odds with that asserted by defenders of ID.Hangonasec
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel at #20: I will look at that too. And I have nothing against experiments and Petri dishes. There are good experiments, and experiments based on wrong methodology. The Szostak experiment is in the second category. IMO. So, please, stop repeating the senseless objection that I am against all forms of design of an experiment. That is not true. I am simply against experiments badly designed, whose conclusions are not justified by the methodology used.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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Zachriel: Not exactly. The original proteins in the library were random, but the final protein, which is the only one analyzed in the paper for folding etc., was engineered. You say: "It tests whether random sequence proteins can fold into a protein with a basic enzymatic function. They can and do." No. If it were that way, they would have analyzed the properties of the proteins in the original library, and not those of the final engineered derivative. You say: "active enzymes are not that uncommon in random sequences" Wrong. The proteins in the original library were not "active enzymes" at all. They were sequences with some weak affinity for ATP. An enzyme is a molecule which accelerates a chemical reaction. Your statement is simply wrong. The final protein had a much stronger affinity for ATP and some folding, although still it was not an enzyme. If I remember well, further derivatives showed some basic enzymatic activity, under special conditions. And again, ATP-binding is not an enzymatic function, if no special reaction follows the binding.gpuccio
February 23, 2015
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