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How are lncDNA/RNA and Neutral Theory Compatible?

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There are many “Neutral Theorists” who maintain that there is a lot of “junk-DNA,” among which long, non-coding DNA=lncDNA is some of the “junkiest.”

But now consider this from Wikipedia:

Nevertheless, despite low conservation of long ncRNAs in general, it should be noted that many long ncRNAs still contain strongly conserved elements. For example, 19% of highly conserved phastCons elements occur in known introns, and another 32% in unannotated regions (Siepel 2005). Furthermore, a representative set of human long ncRNAs exhibit small, yet significant, reductions in substitution and insertion/deletion rates indicative of purifying selection that conserve the integrity of the transcript at the levels of sequence, promoter and splicing (Ponjavic 2007).

If lncDNA is ‘junk’, then according to ‘neutral theory’ it shouldn’t be conserved, not even any portion of it. Yet, of the “highly conserved phastCons elements,” 32% appear in unannotated regions. And 19% of the phastCons elements are found in “introns,” yet we’re told that ‘introns’ are just “junk.” How can neutral theorists, then, maintain their position that most mutations come from molecular evolution (neutral drift), work under the assumption that “highly conserved” portions of the genome are under purifying selection, and then tell us that lncDNA is “junk”? If it is “junk,” then why aren’t ‘neutral mutations’ found across their entire length?

Just being curious.

Comments
PaV The Wikipedia text you quoted
19% of highly conserved phastCons elements occur in known introns, and another 32% in unannotated regions (Siepel 2005).
Your own statement says
“32% in uannotated regions” are “highly conserved.” And 19% of “introns” are “highly conserved,”
The two statements seem to say different things. Let's assume there are 100 highly conserved phastCons elements. 19 of them would occur in known introns. 32 of them would occur in unannotated regions. Now, let's assume there are 1000 known introns. According to your statement, in this hypothetical example, 190 highly conserved phastCons elements occur in introns. That's a contradiction, because there are only 100 highly conserved phastCons elements in this hypothetical example. The part about the unannotated regions does not seem clear either. You may want to review your text and rewrite any part that could be confusing. Also, note that the word 'unannotated' appears misspelled (the n after the initial u is missing). I hope this helps clarify the discussion. Perhaps the confusion does not affect the bottom line problem you're trying to present, but it definitely dilutes the strength of your argument.Dionisio
May 13, 2014
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No. You said "19% of introns are highly conserved". The article says 19% of conserved elements are in introns. These are different things. It's a bit more than hair splitting to point out that the central thesis of your post is not, in fact, true.wd400
May 13, 2014
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So you're objecting to the "highly"? Is that it? Here's the sentence straight out of Wikipedia:
For example, 19% of highly conserved phastCons elements occur in known introns, and another 32% in unannotated regions (Siepel 2005)
Why do you want to 'split hairs'? Is it because you have no reply to give to the paradox I'm presenting?PaV
May 13, 2014
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jerry: wd400 answered repetitive sequences do ‘rot’ over time, but just at the neutral rate which takes a while so we can still see the repeat motif. First, thanks, jerry, for this info and your remarks. Second, I don't see any reason for accepting wd400's reply. Didn't Larry Moran calculate that since the split with chimps there have been like 22 million mutations that have been 'fixed'? I'm not sure, but I suspect that the chimp genome contains lots of lncDNA/RNA, too. So that would mean that "neutral evolution" would go even further back in time, which means that there is even MORE time for the lncDNA to "rot."PaV
May 13, 2014
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No I'm saying you have misunderstood the artice. A small percentage of the genome is conserved, among those conserved elements 19% are in introns, 32% are in unannotated regions. That's not the same thing as your sentence: “32% in uannotated regions” are “highly conserved.”wd400
May 13, 2014
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wd400: Are you saying that there is very little correlation between actual 'conservation' and 'phastCons'?PaV
May 13, 2014
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If lncDNA is ‘junk’, then according to ‘neutral theory’ it shouldn’t be conserved; yet, “32% in uannotated regions” are “highly conserved.” And 19% of “introns” are “highly conserved,” yet we’re told that ‘introns’ are just “junk.” You misread the article. Which actually says 19% of highly conserved phastCons elements occur in known introns, and another 32% in unannotated regionswd400
May 13, 2014
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Actually I was asking about repetitive regions. My question was
Could someone explain to me how a repetitive region is not a functional region? Or if it is not functional, why wouldn’t mutations ruin the repetitiveness over time?
Most of the DNA is repetitive which implies that most of the genome is functional.
wd400 answered
repetitive sequences do ‘rot’ over time, but just at the neutral rate which takes a while so we can still see the repeat motif.
I have no idea if this is true. It is on the thread: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/professor-larry-moran-poses-five-questions-for-the-id-movement/ Gpuccio actually asked most of the questions about conservation or conserved sequences. This term however, primarily means closely conserved across different species as opposed to within species. However, I would think that conserved across disparate sub-populations of humans should be applicable also. The Nicholas Wade book is all about comparing different populations of humans, some of which split off 50,000 years ago and represent about 1800-2000 generations of separation. In it he refers to the comparison of repetitive sequences.jerry
May 13, 2014
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If it is “junk,” then why aren’t ‘neutral mutations’ popping up all over the place?
I asked this same question about 3-4 weeks ago and wd400 just said it is not conserved and it takes awhile for mutations to happen. I will see if I can find his exact reply.jerry
May 13, 2014
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