Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinian Debating Device #19: How to Trick Yourself: The Darwinian Thought Process

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One of the primary things keeping traditional evolutionary theory afloat is not the mountain of evidence supposedly existing in its favor, but the way in which the evidence is interpreted in the context of the pre-existing Darwinian paradigm.

The key is the way evolutionary theorists tend to proceed from an observation to a series of conclusions. When you are steeped in evolutionary thought, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is a purely naturalistic and materialistic explanation, the conclusions seem to follow naturally.

To paraphrase Philip Johnson’s wry (and somewhat sarcastic) observation:

Evolution is really easy to prove. Since “evolution” means both tiny changes and the whole grand creative process, if we can prove a tiny change then we’ve proved the whole grand creative process. Therefore “evolution” occurred. So what’s your problem?

Unfortunately, this is not a parody. It is the basis for so much of evolutionary thought.

In a prior thread, I called out Dr. David Reznick for this kind of mistake. Seemingly unaware that they were making the very same errors, some commenters fell into the same trap. Again, if we are steeped in materialistic evolutionary theory, the path from meager evidence to grand sweeping conclusions seems to follow rather naturally. However, if we are able to escape from that intellectual trap for a moment, we eventually see that the series of conclusions do not in fact follow from the prior evidence and assumptions.

There is much that could be written about the Darwinian mindset and the approach typically taken by promoters of materialistic evolutionary theory, and this brief post cannot possibly constitute a comprehensive discussion. For now, I simply want to outline in graphical form the basic steps that are taken in the thought process. Some promoters of evolutionary theory may be more inclined to one aspect or another, but the overall outline is all too common:

DarwinianThought1

When we analyze the above thought process we note a few things. Again, the flow from one step to another seems rather reasonable if we approach things from a traditional Neo-Darwinian perspective. Indeed, we often hear supporters of evolutionary theory acknowledge things like the tautology of natural selection, while at the same time claiming that it still provides useful knowledge. Further, skeptics might even be inclined to grant that natural selection is, by definition, occurring in a particular situation, because the larger issues of interest to the skeptic lie elsewhere.

Farther to the right, we might even be tempted to admit that “evolution” is true in a general sense, without carefully distinguishing the kinds of changes experienced by an organism and the kinds of changes required to bring about the organism in the first place. Finally, if we are unfamiliar with the primary skeptical arguments or if we fail to realize how our own conflation of concepts clouds the issue, we might be tempted to conclude that anyone who doubts evolution is simply wrong.

To help us understand exactly what is going on then, I include below an additional series of boxes with arrows pointing to the relevant “therefore” and an explanation of what is really going on at that step in the process to enable the Darwinist to draw the conclusion.

DarwinianThought2

Once we see what is actually going on with each step of the thought process – with each of the “therefores” in the chain of thought – rather than finding convincing, overwhelming proof of the theory we instead find a series of unsupported assumptions, circular definitions, conflated concepts and unsound reasoning.

Comments
Box: So, existing forms are the “result” of natural selection in a metaphorical and irrelevant way only. Like a sieve is metaphorical.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Zachs,
Box: In what way are existing forms the result of natural selection — please be specific?
Zach: Because only the forms that have been successful under selection exist in the population. Any new forms, therefore, have to be modifications of existing forms.
So, existing forms are the “result” of natural selection in a metaphorical and irrelevant way only. The main point here is that all forms, successful and unsuccessful alike, are already in existence before natural selection steps in. Obviously, the act of selecting does not create them. The director of the Louvre did not create the Mona Lisa, nor did she co-create the Mona Lisa.Box
October 22, 2015
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mike1962: It would only falsify the notion that all organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. It would not falsify the notion that some/most organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. And finding out that things on the moon don't fall down but up would only falsify that some objects fall down. mike1962: “Plausibility” is a subjective judgement call, and varies from individual to individual. We're asking you. Is it plausible? If not, why not?Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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mike1962: the rabbit doesn’t absolutely falsify blind evolution Zechriels: An organism preceding any plausible ancestor would falsify the notion that organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. It would only falsify the notion that all organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. It would not falsify the notion that some/most organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. Why must a rabbit in the Cambrian falsify the notion that some/most organisms descend from more primitive ancestors? Zechriels: Without more specifics it would be hard to say what might replace it. Why not blind evolution except for obvious cases of intelligent intervention? Zechriels: Here’s a simple test. Do you think it plausible to find scientific evidence of a rabbit in the Cambrian? If not, why not? "Plausibility" is a subjective judgement call, and varies from individual to individual. Of course, it is possible that a rabbit fossil exists in the Cambrian. If one exists, it could have been due to intelligent intervention and need not overthrow the more general theory... unless, one's philosophical views preclude intelligent intervention. A general geological "theory of scattered rocks" is not necessarily overthrown if an intelligent entity deliberately arranges some rocks in a way the theory cannot account for. (Google forensic science.) So now, since a Cambrian rabbit fossil would not necessarily and completely overthrow the theory of blind evolution with regard to the general sweep of organisms, what evidence would?mike1962
October 22, 2015
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mike1962: the rabbit doesn’t absolutely falsify blind evolution An organism preceding any plausible ancestor would falsify the notion that organisms descend from more primitive ancestors. That would falsify evolutionary theory. Without more specifics it would be hard to say what might replace it. Here’s a simple test. Do you think it plausible to find scientific evidence of a rabbit in the Cambrian? If not, why not? Eric Anderson: Can you give me a concrete example of a change in a population over time that is an example of natural selection and one that isn’t an example of natural selection? Half a population is wiped out by a lava flow. The other half is not. That is not natural selection, as there is no heritable difference between the populations that is related to the cause of their demise. The climate turns dry, and plants with small seeds die out. Birds with larger beaks have an advantage cracking larger seeds, so, over time, become more common in the population. This is natural selection, a heritable difference related to the cause of the change in the population. Box: In what way are existing forms the result of natural selection — please be specific? Because only the forms that have been successful under selection exist in the population. Any new forms, therefore, have to be modifications of existing forms. You seem to be arguing semantics, not science.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Zachs: As those existing forms are themselves the result of natural selection, (…)
Box: Nope. They are the result of mutations (chance).
Zachs: No. The only ones capable of being in the previous generation were those that had undergone selection, so it is accurate to say they are the result of natural selection.
In what way are existing forms the result of natural selection — please be specific? What exactly is the creative influence? // About the meaning of “selection”: In what way is the director of the Louvre co-creator of the Mona Lisa? Do you hold that a selection is made from already existing entities? Or do you hold that the very 'act of selecting' adds *something creative* to already existing entities?Box
October 22, 2015
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Zachriel @137:
. . . natural selection refers to a specific process where heritable variations lead to differential reproduction.
Right, the variations rise from random mutations. And those organisms that die out before reproducing are certainly not passing on their variations. Maybe we're saying the same thing. Can you give me a concrete example of a change in a population over time that is an example of natural selection and one that isn't an example of natural selection?Eric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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Zechriels: There is no plausible reworking of evolutionary history that includes a Cambrian rabbit. If a rabbit were found in the Cambrian, it is plausible that some people who believe (blind) evolution produced all life on earth might be persuaded to tweak their view and believe that most of life came about via (blind) evolution, but that intelligent intervention occurred in the case of the Cambrian rabbit. The TOE would remain largely intact. So you see, the rabbit doesn't absolutely falsify blind evolution. It only falsifies a universal application or interpretation of it. So then, what evidence could completely falsify the theory of (blind) evolution?mike1962
October 22, 2015
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No. Evolutionary biology is a science. Many evolutionary biologists are religious, and I'm sure some think the world was set up to allow evolution by some creator. What you're taking about is a (more or less US-specific) culutre war in which some scienctific fields (evolution, climate..) are used a proxies.wd400
October 22, 2015
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wd400 @91: Apologies for jumping in, as your question was not directed at me. Just a reminder: Intelligent design does not have any problem with the idea of natural development and even, in appropriately supported cases, of biological change via purely natural processes, such as the Neo-Darwinian random mutations. The intelligent design paradigm does not claim design at every turn and in every instance; only in those cases in which it is supported. In contrast, materialistic evolutionary theory is an all-or-nothing, no-holds-barred, take-no-prisoners approach that cannot admit to even a single instance of intelligent intervention in the history of life on Earth. This is why such strenuous efforts are put forward to oppose even the hint of design at every turn. No exceptions are allowed, or the materialistic narrative crumbles.Eric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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I haven’t looked into the citrate question closely, but it appears it might be an example of non-random genetic change (shhh! don’t tell wd400).
The first clause certainly seems to be true -- what about the citrate experiment suggests anything other than random mutation?wd400
October 22, 2015
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Bob O'H @77:
You’re written more than one post about this, but still haven’t understood that evolution is just heritable change in a population. You accuse evolutionary biologists of being confused, but in reality, it’s you who are.
I take it then, that you have no issue with the idea that life was initially created by an intelligent being? And you agree that most organisms were also intelligently designed? And perhaps you also would hold to the idea that most significant organismal variation is pre-programmed or guided, rather than random? I didn't think so. So "evolution" is not just "heritable change" for you, is it. You have fallen squarely within the "Conflate different concepts in the same word" fallacy box. Not to worry; you have lots of company.Eric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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Eric Anderson: I haven’t looked into the citrate question closely, but it appears it might be an example of non-random genetic change (shhh! don’t tell wd400). The mutations fit a random distribution.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Box: They are the result of mutations (chance). Consider rolling two dice. You keep rolling until you get snake eyes. Sure, chance is involved, but so is selection.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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groovamos @74: Good points. We can, without breaking a sweat, think of a dozen "niches" that aren't occupied. Why not? Well, because they just happen to have not been occupied. And why did other niches get occupied? Well, they just happen to have been the ones that got occupied. There is no explanatory power here. This is the sum and substance of the theory: Stuff HappensEric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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Zachriel: I haven't looked into the citrate question closely, but it appears it might be an example of non-random genetic change (shhh! don't tell wd400). That is the case with the E. coli lactose experiments.Eric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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Eric Anderson: There is no substantive difference between the following two phrases as an explanation for how organisms got to where they are today: “random mutations filtered by natural selection” and “random mutations, some of which died off” That is not correct. There are many reasons why an organism may die off. However, natural selection refers to a specific process where heritable variations lead to differential reproduction.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Box: Nope. They are the result of mutations (chance). No. The only ones capable of being in the previous generation were those that had undergone selection, so it is accurate to say they are the result of natural selection.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Box @47 and 52: Good points and well said. There is no substantive difference between the following two phrases as an explanation for how organisms got to where they are today: "random mutations filtered by natural selection" and "random mutations, some of which died off" ----- But the first phrase sure sounds more believable.Eric Anderson
October 22, 2015
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Zachs: However, mutation does result in novel variations, variations that are closely related to existing forms.
Yes.
Zachs: As those existing forms are themselves the result of natural selection, (…)
Nope. They are the result of mutations (chance).
Zachs: (…) the result is progressive adaptation.
A series of severe winters eliminates not so wooly sheep. Sure, as a consequence only the “adapted” wooly sheep survive. However natural selection did not create them. At best it can be said that natural selection provided resources to them (your positive “selection”) and thus didn’t pose a hindrance to them. The South Pole climate doesn’t create penguins nor nematodes (roundworms), but doesn’t pose a hindrance to them.
Zachs: In any case, did you have a point beyond semantics?
Yes, here goes again: “natural selection” is not creative and moreover a hindrance to evolution, which implies that your position is left with less than chance alone to explain all the fancy stuff we see in life.Box
October 22, 2015
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Box: that’s what I’ve been arguing all along: chance comes up with a variety of robust organisms (creative) and next NS steps in eliminating stuff (not creative). The problem is that creative is being used by others on this thread in a different manner. Generally, most people would not consider a random number generator to be creative in the usual sense of the word. However, mutation does result in novel variations, variations that are closely related to existing forms. As those existing forms are themselves the result of natural selection, the result is progressive adaptation. As pointed out above, we might see the nose of a species grow longer over generations. In any case, did you have a point beyond semantics?Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Z, Yes, that's what I've been arguing all along: chance comes up with a variety of robust organisms (creative) and next NS steps in eliminating stuff (not creative).Box
October 22, 2015
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Box: If being creative doesn’t require teleology, then sure. That's not how most people use the term, but fair enough. Consequently, random biological variation is also 'creative'. It certainly adds novel information to the population.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Zachs: So, we have a random letter generator. Within that sequence of letters, we have the works of William Shakespeare. Is the random letter generator creative?
If being creative doesn't require teleology, then sure. Why are you asking?Box
October 22, 2015
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Within that sequence of letters, we have the works of William Shakespeare.
Cuz you say so? Really? That isn't an argument. Who made the random letter generator? Does it output ALL possible letters from every language?Virgil Cain
October 22, 2015
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Box, So, we have a random letter generator. Within that sequence of letters, we have the works of William Shakespeare. Is the random letter generator creative? It would seem to be, per your argument.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Zachs: Let’s consider your thought experiment, where there is no selection, and no limitation of resources. This is rather difficult to envision actually, as you will soon run out of room.
Obviously, room is also a resource.
Zachs: The ooze predominates. That’s your toy model.
Indeed. And what of it? I’m not arguing that blind chance comes up with a majority of pretty creatures. In fact I don’t believe that chance can create one single creature. The toy model is part of my analysis of the Darwinian narrative: Given a replicator, there is chance that comes up with all sorts of robust creatures. Next there is an utterly uncreative elimination process based on lack of resources; called “natural selection”. Now, Darwin has fooled many of us into believing that lack of resources is somehow creative. He made many of us believe that e.g. a series of severe winters is a creative force that “selects” and “preserves”, while all it does is eliminate things.Box
October 22, 2015
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Box, So, we have a random letter generator. Within that sequence of letters, we have the works of William Shakespeare. Is the random letter generator creative?Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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Natural selection alone is not creative. It requires both variation and selection.
LoL! The first step of natural selection is in producing the variation. Zachriel doesn't even understand the concept it is trying to defend.Virgil Cain
October 22, 2015
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Box: Now, tell me, what exactly is the creative part of “availability of resources”? Natural selection alone is not creative. It requires both variation and selection. Let's consider your thought experiment, where there is no selection, and no limitation of resources. This is rather difficult to envision actually, as you will soon run out of room. But let's go with it. Every organism that could ever exist; no matter how meager it was at acquiring resources so that it would starve in what we call nature, no matter how ugly it was so that it would never mate in the real world; would continue to exist and produce offspring at the same rate as every other creature. The far vast majority of such creatures would be blobs of protoplasm with no locomotion, because there's no need for legs to find resources, food must appear somehow someway. And plants would have no need to seek the light, apparently, all the light they need would come from within somehow someway. And predators wouldn't have to hunt, which is a good thing, because prey wouldn't have to run away. Most of the protoplasm would probably just ooze and divide, but for those with legs and teeth and sex organs, presumably they wouldn't have to have sex, because that's a resource too. So this tiny tiny fraction of organisms would have sex organs they didn't need, but who cares — resources are free! And the world would be filled with mountains of protoplasm thousands of miles thick, but no need to develop skeletons to avoid being crushed because there's no selection, so no need to climb to the top. Bacteria could divide without end, because they wouldn't have to seek resources. No one would get sick, though, because that's selection, so there's that. There would be no limit on size, of course. Nor on rates of reproduction. So the thousands of miles thick protoplasm would become millions and millions of miles thick. There's no limit when there's no limit to resources! Now, a tiny percentage of those creatures would, indeed, have what we would consider highly adaptive traits, but they would not predominate. If you found one with teeth, it probably wouldn't have legs or fins. The vast majority would be adaptive traits attached to more ooze, because why not! So only an infinitesimal of an infinitesimal would be what we would recognize as an adapted organism. The ooze predominates. That's your toy model.Zachriel
October 22, 2015
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