Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinian Debating Device #19: How to Trick Yourself: The Darwinian Thought Process

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One of the primary things keeping traditional evolutionary theory afloat is not the mountain of evidence supposedly existing in its favor, but the way in which the evidence is interpreted in the context of the pre-existing Darwinian paradigm.

The key is the way evolutionary theorists tend to proceed from an observation to a series of conclusions. When you are steeped in evolutionary thought, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is a purely naturalistic and materialistic explanation, the conclusions seem to follow naturally.

To paraphrase Philip Johnson’s wry (and somewhat sarcastic) observation:

Evolution is really easy to prove. Since “evolution” means both tiny changes and the whole grand creative process, if we can prove a tiny change then we’ve proved the whole grand creative process. Therefore “evolution” occurred. So what’s your problem?

Unfortunately, this is not a parody. It is the basis for so much of evolutionary thought.

In a prior thread, I called out Dr. David Reznick for this kind of mistake. Seemingly unaware that they were making the very same errors, some commenters fell into the same trap. Again, if we are steeped in materialistic evolutionary theory, the path from meager evidence to grand sweeping conclusions seems to follow rather naturally. However, if we are able to escape from that intellectual trap for a moment, we eventually see that the series of conclusions do not in fact follow from the prior evidence and assumptions.

There is much that could be written about the Darwinian mindset and the approach typically taken by promoters of materialistic evolutionary theory, and this brief post cannot possibly constitute a comprehensive discussion. For now, I simply want to outline in graphical form the basic steps that are taken in the thought process. Some promoters of evolutionary theory may be more inclined to one aspect or another, but the overall outline is all too common:

DarwinianThought1

When we analyze the above thought process we note a few things. Again, the flow from one step to another seems rather reasonable if we approach things from a traditional Neo-Darwinian perspective. Indeed, we often hear supporters of evolutionary theory acknowledge things like the tautology of natural selection, while at the same time claiming that it still provides useful knowledge. Further, skeptics might even be inclined to grant that natural selection is, by definition, occurring in a particular situation, because the larger issues of interest to the skeptic lie elsewhere.

Farther to the right, we might even be tempted to admit that “evolution” is true in a general sense, without carefully distinguishing the kinds of changes experienced by an organism and the kinds of changes required to bring about the organism in the first place. Finally, if we are unfamiliar with the primary skeptical arguments or if we fail to realize how our own conflation of concepts clouds the issue, we might be tempted to conclude that anyone who doubts evolution is simply wrong.

To help us understand exactly what is going on then, I include below an additional series of boxes with arrows pointing to the relevant “therefore” and an explanation of what is really going on at that step in the process to enable the Darwinist to draw the conclusion.

DarwinianThought2

Once we see what is actually going on with each step of the thought process – with each of the “therefores” in the chain of thought – rather than finding convincing, overwhelming proof of the theory we instead find a series of unsupported assumptions, circular definitions, conflated concepts and unsound reasoning.

Comments
wd400- How would you use undirected evolution to investigate the behavior? Please be specific.Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel:
the Theory of Evolution would be falsified by showing that there is no fossil succession of forms.
Unfortunately it isn't yours to say, Zachriel. And seeing that you cannot reference this alleged theory of evolution you should just be quiet about it.
Three nodes does not provide substantial evidence of a tree structure. However, thousands of nodes can and do.
They can and do form many different patterns.
We *observe* that genetic change is caused by “RV+NS”.
Your imagination is not an observation. Try again
See Robertson & Joyce, Highly Efficient Self-Replicating RNA Enzymes, Chemistry & Biology 2014.
Intelligently Designed RNAs in a designed environment and only one bond was catalyzed. And it didn't demonstrate Darwinian evolution.Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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groovamos, I'm not sure you saw my question, so here it is again. If you aim to replace evolutionary biology with some ID/creationist alternative then how would that alternative generate and test hypotheses that might explain diadromy? I can think of a number of ways to investigate this behavior within evolutionary biology, so how does your replacement help us?wd400
October 20, 2015
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EugeneS: The theory of evolution is not falsifiable. It is an explanatory mode as anything can be interpreted in light of the postulates of evolution. As already mentioned, the Theory of Evolution would be falsified by showing that there is no fossil succession of forms. EugeneS: Now, the big problem is that it does not question nor can falsify postulate 1. Whatever your measurements, 1 is not falsified. Bingo! Theory of evolution is always true. Three nodes does not provide substantial evidence of a tree structure. However, thousands of nodes can and do. EugeneS: The same is with “genetic change is caused by RV+NS”. This is not falsifiable either as any biological effect could be attributed to chance. It is just a postulate of TOE. We *observe* that genetic change is caused by "RV+NS". We infer, from the succession of fossils, that the changes are largely incremental. It's interesting to note that Darwin couldn't observe microevolution, but inferred microevolution from the evidence for macroevolution. EugeneS: We do not know such thing. See Robertson & Joyce, Highly Efficient Self-Replicating RNA Enzymes, Chemistry & Biology 2014.Zachriel
October 20, 2015
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Genetic accidents pulling off the citrate change is like saying a blind and lame person could pull of the triple lindyVirgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel, "We now know that a molecule can act as messenger and enzyme, memory and processor." We do not know such thing. It is all self-referential. It does not mean anything. To say something "can act like" there must be a protocol describing what "to act like" really means. Logic must causally precede physicality, if a physical material system is to do anything meaningful, not the other way around! You still need to resolve the issue of having to do symbolic processing. Whether it is done in one molecule or in more than one, does not change anything. You need to demonstrate naturalistically how control can arise from the state of no control present. The RNA-world complicates things as it says one thing was responsible for two functions. That, in my estimation, is even more complicated than two separate things each doing their individual things. And, of course, the RNA-world does not get rid of the necessity of a protocol. Until such time as you tackle the problem of naturalistically explaining how symbolic representations arose, you don't have a solution. The RNA-world already assumes there is symbolic processing as it uses itself as a memory and as an enzyme. It does not solve the problem.EugeneS
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel, You are jumping to conclusions and I think you are confused about what falsifiability means. The theory of evolution is not falsifiable. It is an explanatory mode as anything can be interpreted in light of the postulates of evolution. It has to generate a hypothesis that is testable regardless of what it says and independently of it. TOE has no such hypotheses. Consider an example with a variant of TOE based on common descent. 1. Postulate: common descent. 2. Prediction: closer relatives have more similar genomes (genomes with higher homology) than more distant relatives have. 3. Test: humans and chimps have more similar genomes than humans and mice. 4. Consequently, humans are closer relatives of chimps than they are of mice. For argument's sake, suppose you have a new more accurate measurement which is contrary to 3. As a result, your consequence 4 will change accordingly. That's all. Now, the big problem is that it does not question nor can falsify postulate 1. Whatever your measurements, 1 is not falsified. Bingo! Theory of evolution is always true. The same is with "genetic change is caused by RV+NS". This is not falsifiable either as any biological effect could be attributed to chance. It is just a postulate of TOE. It does not generate any interesting insights into how things really are designed in the organism. All advances of biology are made contrary to the sterile scientific agenda of TOE as indeed in the living kingdom everything is meaningfully designed and can be reverse-engineered back to first principles. One indicator is the success of bionics and cybernetics. Biology is all about control, which is an artifact and consequence of decision making and forethought. TOE is not a falsifiable theory. It would be falsifiable if there was some additional attribute or property as a consequence of TOE that could be measured such that, as a result, common descent or RV+NS could be verified or falsified independently of the logic of TOE. Irrespective of that, you still have to resolve the naturalistic conundrum of chicken and egg: the program and processor complex. There is no naturalistic way out of it. Your or my ignorance cannot change reality...EugeneS
October 20, 2015
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The Theory of Evolution is falsifiable,...
The theory of evolution doesn't exist so can we consider it falsified? Why do evos talk about the theory of evolution as if it is a real entity and yet refuse to reference it so we can all read what it really says?Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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The evolution of citrate utilization didn’t require sampling 4 ^ 4 million bases, but just the available single point mutations and duplication of existing segments.
Right, the ONLY gene that produced the REQUIRED protein product to transport citrate through the membrane was duplicated and intentionally put under the control of an existing promoter that allowed the gene to be expressed under aerobic conditions. Only a fool would consider that to be an accident, error or mistake. Enter evolutionists...Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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Dr JDD: Please can you provide the evidence that the citrate “mutation” was not deleterious in any way from the wt as per my question above? Thought this was answered.
Z: We know the genetic mechanism involved, and it is not a degradation of an existing system, but a new pathway. Wild E. coli {edited for clarity} would probably be more fit in the wild than any strain in the experiment, as the experimental bacteria have evolved to adapt to the laboratory environment. Furthermore, the citrate strain of E. coli would probably be outcompeted in the wild by other species that are more adapted to the citrate environment. As for relative fitness, it would depend on the aerobic environment. If the primary food source is citrate, then the strain that can utilize citrate would be fitter. Lacking citrate, it would be at a disadvantage because of the energy costs to maintain the pathway.
You might want to read Blount et al., Genomic analysis of a key innovation in an experimental Escherichia coli population, Nature 2012. They discuss how fitness increased rapidly at first, then increased more slowly over time. Then there was a sudden burst in fitness when citrate utilization evolved. The strain also had a significant increase in the accumulation of mutations. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v489/n7417/images_article/nature11514-f1.2.jpgZachriel
October 20, 2015
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groovamos: An organism tends to be, just because of the possibility to be? The tendency is due to available resources. In the case of salmon, they spawn in freshwater streams to avoid predation. groovamos: The issue is how did all the kinks get worked out of reproductive function at spawning by “natural selection” when the animal’s demise is guaranteed during the trial and error process of natural selection. The ancestors of salmon didn't die after reproduction, but returned to the oceans. There's a tradeoff between saving enough energy for the return trip, and providing as much energy as possible for the eggs. Spawning migrations allow organisms to take advantage of environmental heterogeneities. EugeneS: Evolutionism is unfalsifiable. The Theory of Evolution is falsifiable, and has been repeatedly modified in the light of evidence. The foundations are still standing because they are consistent with the evidence. If, for instance, the fossil record didn't show a succession of forms, then that foundation would be seriously undermined. EugeneS: Explanations show the true merit of a theory. A good theory generates testable hypotheses. A great theory, such as the Theory of Evolution, creates entire new fields of study. EugeneS: nothing will occur if the condition does not hold. You're making some sort of analogy, but have no idea what it means. EugeneS: And, again, the major issue is how to explain the existence of a program together with a processor for it. We now know that a molecule can act as messenger and enzyme, memory and processor.Zachriel
October 20, 2015
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Mapou: E. coli has over 5000 genes and over 4 million base pairs. This means that the search space for e. coli is 4 ^ 4 million. The evolution of citrate utilization didn't require sampling 4 ^ 4 million bases, but just the available single point mutations and duplication of existing segments. This the process posited to generally account for incremental adaptation. Box: Why? Why a functional replicator at all? It seems to be a natural result of ribonucleotide chemistry, but no one has a complete model of abiogenesis, so no one knows. Box: "The problem of form in the organism — how does a single cell (zygote) reliably develop to maturity 'according to its own kind'" Evolutionary development has matured considerably, and there are no processes that are inconsistent either with chemistry or with evolution. Box: The whole Darwinian idea is based on the assumption that robust replicators in all shapes and sizes are easy to find and readily available. The history of common descent shows that incremental pathways exist for most of that history. Artificial replicators show that there are all shapes and sizes that are subject to incremental improvement. As no one has a complete model of abiogenesis, there's no way to test it directly. Box: Little has changed since the days of Darwin and Haeckel who held that a cell is a “simple little lump of albuminous combination of carbon,” not much different from a piece of microscopic Jell-O. Seriously? You must know that's not true. You really think we know no more than Darwin concerning the workings of the cell? By the way, Haeckel provided many drawings of differentiated cells, so we would like to see a primary source for the Haeckel quote. Box: The ability to acquire resources is just one thing that can provide an escape from the grim reaper a.k.a. “natural selection”, another can be thick fur, or having the correct size, color or whatever. Bottom line is that there is no process of adaptation, there is only a series of escapes. You must never have been to a high school dance. It turns out that organisms have a wide variety of mechanisms to ensure their successful reproduction. Those that are more successful will tend to leave more offspring. Box: By “variation” you simply mean chance. Selection Elimination does not create multi-tasking long noses, chance does. Chance provides a range of noses; some short, some long. They typically form a standard distribution around the mean. If a longer nose has an advantage, perhaps for rooting around for tubers, then the next generation will tend to have longer noses. The mean will increase, while the distribution will tend to be skewed with a lower standard distribution. As new variations are introduced into the gene pool, the variations will again form a standard distribution, but with a higher mean, and with a wider standard distribution. If there is continued selection pressure, the mean will continue to increase, while there will be fewer and fewer with short noses. Eventually, the entire population will have extended proboscides. If we snapshot the population, we will see the nose grow. What you envision is that absent selection and with unlimited resources, the initial standard distribution would spread until every possible nose occurs, including no nose at all! In the real world, they might starve, but in your toy universe, they continue to contribute equally to the population. That's not how it works, of course. Rather we see snapshots over time of increasingly long noses.Zachriel
October 20, 2015
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“Natural selection” is NOT creative.
“Colin Patterson’s description highlights something very easily overlooked—the fact that natural selection is not creative. As he says, it is a ‘weeding out process’ that leaves the stronger progeny. The stronger progeny must be already there: it is not produced by natural selection. Indeed the very word ‘selection’ ought to alert our attention to this: selection is made from already existing entities. This is an exceedingly important point because the words ‘natural selection’ are often used as if they were describing a creative process, for instance, by capitalizing their initial letters. This is highly misleading (…)” [John C. Lennox, ‘God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God?’, p.102]
If the universe is for reasons of sheer dumb luck committed ultimately to a state of cosmic listlessness, it is also by sheer dumb luck that life first emerged on earth, the chemicals in the pre-biotic seas or soup illuminated and then invigorated by a fateful flash of lightning. It is again by sheer dumb luck that the first self-reproducing systems were created. The dense and ropy chains of RNA -- they were created by sheer dumb luck, and sheer dumb luck drove the primitive chemicals of life to form a living cell. It is sheer dumb luck that alters the genetic message so that, from infernal nonsense, meaning for a moment emerges; and sheer dumb luck again that endows life with its opportunities, the space of possibilities over which natural selection plays, sheer dumb luck creating the mammalian eye and the marsupial pouch, sheer dumb luck again endowing the elephant's sensitive nose with nerves and the orchid's translucent petal with blush. Amazing. Sheer dumb luck. [Berlinski, ‘Deniable Darwin’]
Box
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel, You are constantly using your paradigm without questioning it. Evolutionism is unfalsifiable. Whatever happens, evolution can explain it. It is the quality of explanations, that is the issue. Explanations show the true merit of a theory. As regards metabolyzing citrate: this metabolic ability was not found by E.coli by happenstance. It was utilized under appropriate conditions only because this kind of change had already been accounted for in the genome. These conditions were accounted for and built in as a behaviour pattern in response to the environmental stimuli. If in your program you have the following block: IF condition THEN action1 ELSE action2 action2 will be exectuted by the processor if the condition does not hold. If, however, what you have is only IF condition THEN action1 nothing will occur if the condition does not hold. Nothing, Zachriel. And, again, the major issue is how to explain the existence of a program together with a processor for it.EugeneS
October 20, 2015
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Bob O'H:
You’re written more than one post about this, but still haven’t understood that evolution is just heritable change in a population.
Evolutionism claims the heritable changes are all happenstance events. That is what is being disputed.Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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At Zachriel admits that it is only our ignorance tat says all mutations are random/ happenstance.Virgil Cain
October 20, 2015
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Eric Anderson @ 71 -
It is unfortunately all too common for individuals to proceed from meager evidence (often just an observation of change in a population) to the implicit (and occasionally expressly stated) claim that “evolution” in general is true.
You're written more than one post about this, but still haven't understood that evolution is just heritable change in a population. You accuse evolutionary biologists of being confused, but in reality, it's you who are. Now, if you want to make the argument that we can't infer evolutionary patterns such as speciation and evolution of novelty from observed changes in standing variation, then go ahead. We'll agree with you, and point to other sources of evidence for these phenomena. But please don't confuse your confusion for other peoples'.Bob O'H
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel The issue for evolution isn’t survival, but reproduction. I'm well aware of the simplistic view on my part of the spawning getting the "kinks worked out". But you have a serious limitation with this extremely complex animal that require the spawning to be successful and to have evolved simultaneously with all of the navigational apparatus. Complicated by the required upstream struggle and inescapable demise of each adult at the first reproduction. The larger point is that science will never know in a general sense how the evolution of this species progressed so to say the theory fits the evidence is a hopeless claim.groovamos
October 20, 2015
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mike1962: Zachriels: once you have a functional replicator, then…”. Box: Why a functional replicator at all? And why don’t they fall apart? It reminds me of the old Steve Martin gag, How You Can Be a Millionaire and Not Pay Any Taxes… “First, get a million dollars. Now,…”
Your comparison is excellent; however it doesn’t fully capture the bizarreness of Darwinian assumptions. Maybe something like this: How You Can Be a Millionaire at All Times No Matter How Much You Spent … “First, get a million dollars which number remains constant no matter how much you take from it. Now, …” Yes, I know … too bizarre to be funny.Box
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel: Organisms will tend to invade available niches. This is what you call 'science'? An organism tends to be, just because of the possibility to be? Because it can? Its just so easy to call it a "niche", that "niche" analogy so useful for the visualization of everything just sort of falling into place - you know what niches are like. Kinda like grooves that things can fall into. And we're supposed to just shut up and take it? Sorry the "niche" is intellectual laziness. Zachriel The issue for evolution isn’t survival, but reproduction. The issue is how did all the kinks get worked out of reproductive function at spawning by "natural selection" when the animal's demise is guaranteed during the trial and error process of natural selection. The magic of Darwinian Evolution was in this animal, required to get all of the mechanisms of the freshwater spawning correct on this first "try" and it came through with flying colors? Trillions of "random mutations" happened at once? Because really, in this situation, no animal is available to do it again. See you guys cannot get specific on exactly how it happened to evolve, enumerating the mutations. And then you come on here and say your explanation fits the evidence when there is really no explanation. It would help a little if you could tell us if the ancestors of this fish were saltwater or freshwater, can you do that?groovamos
October 20, 2015
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Zachriel: Please can you provide the evidence that the citrate "mutation" was not deleterious in any way from the wt as per my question above? I am genuinely interested to know what was done to demonstrate this. Thanks.Dr JDD
October 19, 2015
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Popperian @28-30: Thank you for your well-crafted comment and the detailed thoughts. Would that all proponents of evolutionary theory were as thoughtful. Unfortunately, I'm just doing a quick drive-through tonight and don't have time to properly reply with the detail you deserve (I'm even toying with elevating your comments and my reply to a new head post, but if history is any guide, I probably won't get to that). Let me in the interim just make sure you are aware of a couple of items (since your comment seemed to potentially hint otherwise): (i) I am talking precisely about the evidence, the observable evidence we have in front of us. It is not a question of whether there is "evidence" in the sense of observations. There are mounds of this kind of evidence, which can colloquially be called "facts." The issue is how those facts are interpreted. I think you share the same view, at least in general approach. (ii) I have not (at least to my memory) ever tried to support intelligent design or to argue against evolution by referring to the Bible or some religious text. I understand that is important to some people and I try to be respectful of that. But I am more interested in what the concrete, observable facts are, rather than some religious text (or worse, someone's questionable interpretation of that text). Again, I think we are largely on the same page there. (iii) The question of whether intelligent causes exist in the universe (as opposed to only the brute interaction of matter and energy) is important here. Again, probably deserves more discussion another time. Ruling out such causes a priori is not a hallmark of good "science" and certainly not a hallmark of a sincere effort to find the truth. Well, more than I had planned to say right now anyway. Hopefully I can add a few additional thoughts later.Eric Anderson
October 19, 2015
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Seversky @21:
I can certainly try but, first, I would like you to confirm that you believe that what you wrote in the OP is a fair and honest summary of current evolutionary thought.
Fair enough. Just make sure you carefully notice my caveats. I have never said that every evolutionist everywhere is illogical; I have never said that no evolutionist has tried to support her position in a rational way; I have never said that every evolutionist is as careless in their thinking as so many are; I have never said that there aren't a myriad of writings and musings and suggestions and claims that exist in the literature, most of which have no relevance to the point at issue. What I am saying, and will stand by, is that it is unfortunately all too common for those steeped in the Darwinian tradition to believe that they see evidence confirming "evolution" all around them. It is unfortunately all too common for individuals to proceed from meager evidence (often just an observation of change in a population) to the implicit (and occasionally expressly stated) claim that "evolution" in general is true. Yes, this is all too common and suffers from the flaws I have outlined above.Eric Anderson
October 19, 2015
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Virgil Cain:
“Not By Chance” introduces a “non-random evolutionary hypothesis” proclaiming the deck is stacked wrt mutations.
There is no doubt about it.Mapou
October 19, 2015
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Zachriels: once you have a functional replicator, then...”. Box: Why a functional replicator at all? And why don’t they fall apart? It reminds me of the old Steve Martin gag, How You Can Be a Millionaire and Not Pay Any Taxes... "First, get a million dollars. Now,..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXmQW_aqBksmike1962
October 19, 2015
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Zach,
Z:
Box: I’m not merely asking how life began, I’m pointing out that there is no reason for matter to organize itself into larger complex wholes.
The point is that once you have a functional replicator, then it will evolve into “larger complex wholes”.
Why? Why a functional replicator at all? And why don’t they fall apart
Z:
Box: All we know about chemistry speaks against life’s robustness.
It does? Living organisms are counterexamples to that. There’s no known processes of robustness within a living organism which is contrary to the laws of chemistry. You could start with the epidermis, the ‘bag’ for the rest of the organism.
Maybe Talbott can make you see:
Talbott: The problem of form in the organism — how does a single cell (zygote) reliably develop to maturity “according to its own kind” — has vexed biologists for centuries. But the same mystery plays out in the mature organism, which must continually work to maintain its normal form, as well as restore it when injured. It is difficult to bring oneself fully face to face with the enormity of this accomplishment. Scientists can damage tissues in endlessly creative ways that the organism has never confronted in its evolutionary history. Yet, so far as its resources allow, it mobilizes those resources, sets them in motion, and does what it has never done before, all in the interest of restoring a dynamic form and a functioning that the individual molecules and cells certainly cannot be said to “understand” or “have in view”. We can frame the problem of identity and context with this question: Where do we find the context and activity that, in whatever sense we choose to use the phrase, does “have in view” this restorative aim? Not an easy question. Yet the achievement is repeatedly carried through; an ever-adaptive intelligence comes into play somehow, and all those molecules and cells are quite capable of participating in and being caught up in the play.
Z:
Box: The Darwinian narrative doesn’t just presuppose one first robust replicator, it presupposes an abundance of countless robust replicators in all shapes and sizes, offered by pure chance for natural selection to act on.
Once you have a single functional replicator and suitable resources, you will have “countless robust replicators in all shapes and sizes.”
You make my point for me. The whole Darwinian idea is based on the assumption that robust replicators in all shapes and sizes are easy to find and readily available. Yet no one can build a simple cell from matter. Yet all attempts to come up with a bottom-up explanation for an organism — the search for the master-controller — have failed miserably. You guys simply base your hypothesis on something that you don’t understand. Little has changed since the days of Darwin and Haeckel who held that a cell is a “simple little lump of albuminous combination of carbon,” not much different from a piece of microscopic Jell-O.
Z:
Box: What you see as “keeping” or “preserving” is in fact “ignoring”.
Semantics. Those organisms which are most adept at acquiring the resources necessary for reproduction will tend to become dominant in a population.
The ability to acquire resources is just one thing that can provide an escape from the grim reaper a.k.a. “natural selection”, another can be thick fur, or having the correct size, color or whatever. Bottom line is that there is no process of adaptation, there is only a series of escapes.
Z:
Box: A severe winter doesn’t cuddle the wooliest sheep, it eliminates the other sheep instead.
All sheep are subject to natural selection, each with advantages and disadvantages. Too much wool is a waste of resources, for instance, or may lead to overheating. Each member of the population is constantly being subjected to various forces of competition and the environment.
Sure, but in the end the ones that survive have escaped the claws of natural selection. It is as simple as that.
Z:
Box: This is not nitpicking on terms. I’m pointing out that natural selection is a non-creative negative force which only explains elimination.
However, even with your overly simplified model, adaptation can occur. A long nose can become prehensility through variation and selection.
By “variation” you simply mean chance. Selection Elimination does not create multi-tasking long noses, chance does.
Hugo de Vries: “natural selection may explain the survival of the fittest, but it cannot explain the arrival of the fittest”
Box
October 19, 2015
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E. coli has over 5000 genes and over 4 million base pairs. This means that the search space for e. coli is 4 ^ 4 million. You could have zillions of universes filled with e.coli and it would not make a difference. RM+NS is just a silly fart joke for children. The combinatorial explosion is the merciless killer of all the Darwinian evolution crap coming from Zachriel/Croteau and the rest of the liars.Mapou
October 19, 2015
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Mapou: No is is not. If we observe the distribution of cards in straight poker, and about 0.14% are a full house, 2.1% are three of a kind, 42% are a pair, and about half are high card hands, then we say it fits a random distribution. You might argue that you were meant to get that full house, that you grabbed your lucky rabbit's foot just as the cards were dealt, but the argument has no empirical validity. The results are indistinguishable from a random distribution.Zachriel
October 19, 2015
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Zachriel/Croteau, the liar for Darwin:
In the case of the Lenski experiment, the number of generations it took to evolve citrate utilization, that it was only found in certain strains, and that it required potentiating mutations, is consistent with random mutation.
No is is not. None of it proved anything other than mutations can and do happen. Liar.Mapou
October 19, 2015
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In the case of the Lenski experiment, the number of generations it took to evolve citrate utilization, that it was only found in certain strains, and that it required potentiating mutations, is consistent with random mutation.
So considering how many generations it took for humans to create alternating current it must have been a random event.Virgil Cain
October 19, 2015
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