Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Darwinian Debating Device #19: How to Trick Yourself: The Darwinian Thought Process

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

One of the primary things keeping traditional evolutionary theory afloat is not the mountain of evidence supposedly existing in its favor, but the way in which the evidence is interpreted in the context of the pre-existing Darwinian paradigm.

The key is the way evolutionary theorists tend to proceed from an observation to a series of conclusions. When you are steeped in evolutionary thought, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is a purely naturalistic and materialistic explanation, the conclusions seem to follow naturally.

To paraphrase Philip Johnson’s wry (and somewhat sarcastic) observation:

Evolution is really easy to prove. Since “evolution” means both tiny changes and the whole grand creative process, if we can prove a tiny change then we’ve proved the whole grand creative process. Therefore “evolution” occurred. So what’s your problem?

Unfortunately, this is not a parody. It is the basis for so much of evolutionary thought.

In a prior thread, I called out Dr. David Reznick for this kind of mistake. Seemingly unaware that they were making the very same errors, some commenters fell into the same trap. Again, if we are steeped in materialistic evolutionary theory, the path from meager evidence to grand sweeping conclusions seems to follow rather naturally. However, if we are able to escape from that intellectual trap for a moment, we eventually see that the series of conclusions do not in fact follow from the prior evidence and assumptions.

There is much that could be written about the Darwinian mindset and the approach typically taken by promoters of materialistic evolutionary theory, and this brief post cannot possibly constitute a comprehensive discussion. For now, I simply want to outline in graphical form the basic steps that are taken in the thought process. Some promoters of evolutionary theory may be more inclined to one aspect or another, but the overall outline is all too common:

DarwinianThought1

When we analyze the above thought process we note a few things. Again, the flow from one step to another seems rather reasonable if we approach things from a traditional Neo-Darwinian perspective. Indeed, we often hear supporters of evolutionary theory acknowledge things like the tautology of natural selection, while at the same time claiming that it still provides useful knowledge. Further, skeptics might even be inclined to grant that natural selection is, by definition, occurring in a particular situation, because the larger issues of interest to the skeptic lie elsewhere.

Farther to the right, we might even be tempted to admit that “evolution” is true in a general sense, without carefully distinguishing the kinds of changes experienced by an organism and the kinds of changes required to bring about the organism in the first place. Finally, if we are unfamiliar with the primary skeptical arguments or if we fail to realize how our own conflation of concepts clouds the issue, we might be tempted to conclude that anyone who doubts evolution is simply wrong.

To help us understand exactly what is going on then, I include below an additional series of boxes with arrows pointing to the relevant “therefore” and an explanation of what is really going on at that step in the process to enable the Darwinist to draw the conclusion.

DarwinianThought2

Once we see what is actually going on with each step of the thought process – with each of the “therefores” in the chain of thought – rather than finding convincing, overwhelming proof of the theory we instead find a series of unsupported assumptions, circular definitions, conflated concepts and unsound reasoning.

Comments
wd400:
If you think evolutionary biology can’t explain this (I disagree) what’s the alternative?
Miraculously magical fortuitous mutations. If you can distinguish that from "the evolutionary biology explanation" I'd sure like to know about it.Mung
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
02:22 PM
2
02
22
PM
PDT
Mung, The Moon isn’t an available niche for salmon. Is that also why I don't find salmon swimming in my toilet? Zachriels are being their usual disingenuous selves. No surprise there. The Zachriels' strategy: Say something true but trivial or irrelevant. Leave unsaid anything of real substance. Frankly I think we should all learn to respond in kind to this insipid troll. groovamos asked a question about a specific species, salmon. The answer given by Zachriels, after having removed the context, says nothing about salmon. Zachriel:
Organisms will tend to invade available niches.
And salmon are organisms, therefore salmon will tend to invade available niches. Well, no. So the Zachriels either avoided the question entirely and changed the subject or the Zachriels lied. Neither one is intellectually honest.Mung
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
02:18 PM
2
02
18
PM
PDT
Groovamos, There's lots wrong your post, but ignoring that for now here's a more important question: What scientific approach would you take to understand the widespread existence of diadromous lifestyles like those of salmon species? If you think evolutionary biology can't explain this (I disagree) what's the alternative?wd400
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
02:17 PM
2
02
17
PM
PDT
When I wrote that "science isn't about stuff that you can observe", what did I mean by that?
Are dinosaurs merely an interpretation of our best explanation of fossils? Or are they *the* explanation for fossils? After all, there are an infinite number of rival interpretations that accept the same empirical observations, yet suggest that dinosaurs never existed millions of years ago. For example, there is the rival interpretation that fossils only come into existence when they are consciously observed. Therefore, fossils are no older than human beings. As such, they are not evidence of dinosaurs, but evidence of acts of those particular observations. Another interpretation would be that dinosaurs are such weird animals that conventional logic simply doesn’t apply to them. One could suggests It’s meaningless to ask if dinosaurs were real or just a useful fiction to explain fossils – which is an example of instrumentalism. Not to mention the rival interpretation that an abstract designer with no limitations chose to create the world we observe 30 days ago. Therefore, dinosaurs couldn’t be the explanation for fossils because they didn’t exist at the time. Yet, we do not say that dinosaurs are merely an interpretation of our best explanation of fossils, they *are* the explanation for fossils. And this explanation is primarily about dinosaurs, not fossils. So, it’s in this sense that science isn’t primarily about “things you can see”.
Popperian
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
01:53 PM
1
01
53
PM
PDT
Feel free to explain how proponents of evolutionary theory so often go from an observation of a change in a population to “evolution is true” and “those who doubt evolution are wrong,” if not via the steps I have outlined above. I am open to hearing how you think the conclusions are reached if not as I have outlined.
Again, that's an interpretation of observations, and I'm suggesting you're mistaken about at least some of them. Darwin proposed evolution as a theory that explained what we knew about biological features at the time. That theory did not come from observations of finch beaks, etc., but was a conjectured (an educated guess) universal theory about how the world works, to explain biological complexity we observe. (Consider how we cannot actually measure gravity everywhere in the universe, but we think is acts universally and think it plays a fundamental role that explains a vast number of phenomena.) When new details about biblical features are proposed, those theories have not been fatal to key aspects of Darwin's theory. For example, the discovery of DNA could have been such a discovery, but was not. Darwin's theory survived significant criticism. And that's just one example. Furthermore, Darwin's theory is preferred because it has necessary consequences for the current state of the system which we can test. From the NCSE article, What Did Karl Popper Really Say About Evolution?...
What Popper calls the historical sciences do not make predictions about long past unique events (postdictions), which obviously would not be testable. (Several recent authors—including Stephen Jay Gould in Discover, July 1982—make this mistake.) These sciences make hypotheses involving past events which must predict (that is, have logical consequences) for the present state of the system in question. Here the testing procedure takes for granted the general laws and theories and is testing the specific conditions (or initial conditions, as Popper usually calls them) that held for the system. A scientist, on the basis of much comparative anatomy and physiology, might hypothesize that, in the distant past, mammals evolved from reptiles. This would have testable consequences for the present state of the system (earth's surface with the geological strata in it and the animal and plant species living on it) in the form of reptile-mammal transition fossils that should exist, in addition to other necessary features of the DNA, developmental systems, and so forth, of the present-day reptiles and mammals.
So, the kind of observations in question are referring to necessary consequences to biological Darwinism. This isn't the only reason why we should except the theory, as it explains more phenomena and is harder to vary, as I indicated in my earlier comment, but it's yet another key criticism that it has passed.Popperian
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
01:50 PM
1
01
50
PM
PDT
One of the primary things keeping traditional evolutionary theory afloat is not the mountain of evidence supposedly existing in its favor, but the way in which the evidence is interpreted in the context of the pre-existing Darwinian paradigm.
It's unclear how you can interpret evidence without first putting into some kind of theoretical framework. As such, it's unclear how you expect us to approach anything, let alone the biosphere, from a completely theory neutral way.
The key is the way evolutionary theorists tend to proceed from an observation to a series of conclusions. When you are steeped in evolutionary thought, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is a purely naturalistic and materialistic explanation, the conclusions seem to follow naturally.
First, I do not proceed from observations to conclusions. I start with a problem, conjecture theories about how the world works that allow us to solve that problem, then criticize them - discarding errors discovered in the process. That's why my user name is Popperian. Second, it's not that no other explanations are not "permitted" but that they are easily varied and are completely missing explantations that other theories provide. For example, in both ID and creationism, the origin of the knowledge of what transformations to perform that result in an organism's features when copied is either supernatural, absent or irrational. So, they are discarded for being bad explanations in contrast to biological Darwinism.
Evolution is really easy to prove. Since “evolution” means both tiny changes and the whole grand creative process, if we can prove a tiny change then we’ve proved the whole grand creative process. Therefore “evolution” occurred. So what’s your problem?
A problem that tends to occur on both sides is proceeding under the assumption that science is about stuff you can observe and that it is in the business of using observations to prove theories are true or probably true. For example, ID proponents rightly point out that observations do not prove that evolution is true, but wrongly imply this is a unique program for biological Darwinism and that evidence is irrelevant unless it does. IOW, the mountains of evidence you referred to is actually significant not because it proves evolution is true or probably true, but it significant because it represents a mountain of empirical criticism that evolution has withstood. Quotes like those above from the other side only serve to sidetrack and confuse the problem further.
Unfortunately, [the above quote] is not a parody. It is the basis for so much of evolutionary thought.
Except I'm an evolutionist and do not think that at all. You're trying to conflate empiricism, a theory of science, with biological darwinism, which are really two distinct ideas that are not joined at the hip. Note: it's not that I think empirical observations do not play an important role. Empiricism was an important step because it helped promote empirical observations in science. But it got the role observations play wrong. The contents of theories are tested by observations, not derived from them. So I would suggest the kind of theory exclusion you referred to starts much earlier and is more fundamental. To rephrase in the language from part of your OP.
When you are steeped in empiricism, when no alternative explanations are permitted as a matter of fiat, when the only possible interpretation open to you is proving theories are true or probably true using observations, the conclusion that biological darwinism isn't science seems to follow naturally.
[graphic ommited]
For now, I simply want to outline in graphical form the basic steps that are taken in the thought process. Some promoters of evolutionary theory may be more inclined to one aspect or another, but the overall outline is all too common:
Just because someone is confused about the role that observations play and this does not mean those observations are irrelevant and they haven't reached isn't the best explanation in the end. Let's we hypothetically observe a computer returned an answer to a problem. I explain the result as "magic" while you explain it though the universality of computation. It's quite possible that the mistake I made isn't really a significant problem unless I try to take "magic" seriously as an explanation for returning the answer. We can say the same about empiricism and inductivism. It's not really a significant problem unless one try to take it seriously as ID proponents are in the case of the biosphere (but not take too seriously, as they only object only in the case of the biosphere, while blissfully ignoring the implications it would have for other fields of science). Furthermore, any modus ponens (the way that affirms by affirming) argument can be transformed into modus tollens (the way that denies by denying). So, the mistake isn't completely and utterly fatal. All of our theories are incomplete and contain errors to some degree. Even quantum mechanics, which is the most accurate theory we have in science, doesn't jive with GR. So, we know at least one of these theories are wrong. The question is where and to what degree.
Once we see what is actually going on with each step of the thought process – with each of the “therefores” in the chain of thought – rather than finding convincing, overwhelming proof of the theory we instead find a series of unsupported assumptions, circular definitions, conflated concepts and unsound reasoning.
Except you've got it wrong, at least in my case. And the way that Darwinian empiricists get it wrong isn't serious enough to think we should throw their conclusions out because we view their mountain of proof as a mountain of criticism. I'd also point out that if you view knowledge as only coming from authoritative sources, in would seem natural to assume that evolution false because nature isn't what you would consider authoritative source. Of course, if I've got anything wrong here, then please indicate where and how your views differ. Please be specific. Again, i'm suggesting the kind of theory exclusion you're referring to starts much earlier and is more fundamental. Theism is a form of justificationism, which implies a specific philosophical view at the exclusion of others. As such criticism of theism is a criticism of that view and is not prejudicial to theism alone.Popperian
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
01:21 PM
1
01
21
PM
PDT
Survival of the reproductive? I can't find Zachriel's chirp anywhere in Origins. Is he lying again?Andre
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
12:31 PM
12
12
31
PM
PDT
Mung, The Moon isn't an available niche for salmon. Zachriel choose its words wisely.Virgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
11:37 AM
11
11
37
AM
PDT
Zachriel: Organisms will tend to invade available niches. Which is why we find salmon on the moon.Mung
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
11:28 AM
11
11
28
AM
PDT
Virgil Cain, I agree with your arguments. Zachriel is a paid evil institution. Don't ever let that a-hole get away with anything. Keep jabbing him until he bleeds from every orifice. LOL. Bravo.Mapou
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
11:22 AM
11
11
22
AM
PDT
Mapou, What people like Zachriel fail to understand is that with a nested hierarchy of biological organisms all species are represented at the tips, ie the end of the succession of levels. However with the alleged tree of life only the extant and dead-end species are at the tips, with all other species filling out the branches and trunk- "endless forms most beautiful", one blending into the next. Nested hierarchies and blending do not mix. ;)Virgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
11:13 AM
11
11
13
AM
PDT
The issue for evolution isn’t survival, but reproduction.
And evolution can't even account for biological reproduction.Virgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
11:06 AM
11
11
06
AM
PDT
Eric Anderson @ 5
Seversky: It is easy to complain with two words. I would like to hear the substance behind your comment.
I can certainly try but, first, I would like you to confirm that you believe that what you wrote in the OP is a fair and honest summary of current evolutionary thought.Seversky
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:48 AM
10
10
48
AM
PDT
Virgil Cain:
A nested hierarchy is evidence against Common Descent as Common Descent predicts transitional forms which would ruin a nested hierarchy.
Yes. This is the kind of arguments I want to see from the ID camp. A good scientific argument is like a kick in the groin to a lying Darwinist. It makes them squirm in agony. LOL.Mapou
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:37 AM
10
10
37
AM
PDT
groovamos: Evolution need a species that can live in both worlds? Organisms will tend to invade available niches. groovamos: And if the issue of the ‘story’ is survival, then why is survival absolutely precluded at the end of the upstream journey of these amazing creatures? The issue for evolution isn't survival, but reproduction.Zachriel
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:33 AM
10
10
33
AM
PDT
I wrote:
It’s also time for the ID camp to start making some serious biological predictions based on intelligence and design. But first ID researchers must get rid of all that religious and philosophical baggage they carry around with them. All that nonsense about the designer being a simple yet omniscient, omnipotent and altogether impossible mythical being straight out of medieval Church doctrine has got to go. It’s 2015 for crying out loud. We have a better grip on logic nowadays.
kairosfocus replied:
PS: Mapou, the design inference is a simple inductive inference from tested, empirically reliable sign per vera causa. Functionally specific, complex organisation and/or associated information (FSCO/I) has but one empirically reliable, observed cause, intelligently directed configuration. Once this point burns through the message dominance games, let the metaphysical chips lie where they fly. The major, and revolutionary, prediction is that such FSCO/I — the relevant form of CSI, and which embraces relevant cases of irreducible complexity also — will remain as a strong and reliable index of design as cause. This has direct implications for not only the world of life including OOL and origin of body plans (OOBP), but for origin of the cosmos and for the nature of mind. This last, once we put on the table the observation that computation on a relevant hardware substrate is a blind mechanical, non rational cause-effect process, and cannot in itself ground rational, responsible freedom based contemplation. Which last is the basis for rationality and for the credibility of knowledge.
kairosfocus, I'm sorry but you are sounding like a parrot. You've been saying those things forever. How is it working for you? How many Darwinists have you converted with them? Don't tell me. I know. The answer is exactly zero. You know why? It's because they are just as boring and tiresome as the Darwinists' own talking points. What is needed are hard and precise biological predictions that fully take intelligence and design into account. All this talk about the designer being some impossible simple being with perfect knowledge of past, present and future is just cargo cult science. Intelligence is intelligence regardless of who has the intelligence. Intelligence requires learning through trial and error. The stance that God's intelligence is different than ours is superstitious nonsense from medieval thinkers. We, humans, were designed and formed in the image of the Gods. Here's the kind of predictions I would like to see from the ID camp based on design: 1. The species are organized hierarchically, forming a mostly nested tree sprinkled with horizontal gene transfers. 2. Adaptation via genetic modification is controlled directly by the brain in response to environmental stimuli. 3. The genome is organized strictly hierarchically (the real tree of life). I was able to make those predictions simply by applying the principles of intelligent design to biology. There are many more similar predictions that we can make. We have to stop pussyfooting around like Sunday school teachers. The enemy is powerful and is not sleeping. Saying it like I see it, as always.Mapou
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:22 AM
10
10
22
AM
PDT
Zachriel: Darwin presented two primary lines of evidence; natural selection as the mechanism of adaptation, and common descent as the history of life’s divergence from shared ancestors. Both lines are required to make sense of the evidence. Sorry, just making sense of the evidence (or so trying) is not enough and may not even be the issue in the big picture. Example: Salmon exist and live extraordinary lives. Why? There are scads and scads of saltwater species. There are scads and scads of freshwater species. Why did this magical thing called Darwinian Evolution need a species that can live in both worlds? What issue of survival was crucial in the emergence of the diadromous salmon species? What problem was solved? And if the issue of the 'story' is survival, then why is survival absolutely precluded at the end of the upstream journey of these amazing creatures? Get that? They die. Are we suppose to just sit back and accept whatever story 'science' tells us here? Because really 'science' (meaning certain groups of scientists) has essentially elbowed its way to the storytelling table, ideologically so motivated. So why in the world should we just shut up and take it? Because you guys say so and you're so smart?groovamos
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:17 AM
10
10
17
AM
PDT
Natural selection channels variations adaptively;
That is the propaganda, anyway. We are still waiting for the evidence.
As Darwin pointed out, artificial selection merely selects among naturally occurring variations, and is capable of substantial changes in phenotype in just thousands of years.
Artificial selection isn't like natural selection. Natural selection could never produce the dog breeds we see today.
Common descent is strongly supported by the nested hierarchy,
A nested hierarchy is evidence against Common Descent as Common Descent predicts transitional forms which would ruin a nested hierarchy.
and by the fossil succession.
fish-> tetrapods-> fish-a-pods. WhoopsieVirgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
10:13 AM
10
10
13
AM
PDT
I'm afraid this is just laughable. If you look at the lower boxes the first is simply wrong, the authors demonstrate the changes are heritable (something you've been told multiple times and would know if you'd read the paper you erected all this rubbish on). The second box is also wrong -- evolution is defined in science as changes in heritable variants. Even if you want to claim that the variation is not random with respect to fitness then you have to presume some unknown mechanism by which a random sample of fish in one pool are inducing mutations in anticipation for their move to another. Your final two boxes rely on the idea that in the following comment in a university press release...
People are skeptical; they don’t believe in evolution because they can’t see it. Here, we see it. We can see if something makes you better able to make babies and live longer
The author meant that the only reason people are skeptical of evolution is that they can't see it in action. Quite an assumption. That you can erect just a grand narrative on such a small quote (and your own misunderstandings of the paper) is a much better example of how to fool yourself that this paper or the press release describing it.wd400
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
09:00 AM
9
09
00
AM
PDT
Mung: Darwin did not present natural selection as a line of evidence. Darwin presented breeding as a line of evidence, then took a leap of faith that there was something analogous in Nature. Breeding is more than an analogy, but shows the availability of natural variation. Darwin discussed a variety of natural cases, as well, such as pollinating insects.Zachriel
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
08:43 AM
8
08
43
AM
PDT
Eric Anderson: No, natural selection is not a “mechanism of adaptation.” Natural selection channels variations adaptively; hence, it is a mechanism of adaptation. Eric Anderson: Darwin simply assumed that the adaptations would naturally arise As Darwin pointed out, artificial selection merely selects among naturally occurring variations, and is capable of substantial changes in phenotype in just thousands of years. Eric Anderson: Yes, Darwin proposed common descent. But this is an indirect inference that again lacks a mechanism or adequate evidentiary support. Common descent is strongly supported by the nested hierarchy, and by the fossil succession. You have to understand common descent before you can understand how natural selection have shaped life over hundreds-of-millions of years.Zachriel
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
08:39 AM
8
08
39
AM
PDT
Zachriel:
Darwin presented two primary lines of evidence; natural selection as the mechanism of adaptation, and common descent as the history of life’s divergence from shared ancestors. Both lines are required to make sense of the evidence.
Even the Zachriels are confused about this topic. Darwin presented "two primary lines of evidence," they say, and both lines are required to make sense of the evidence. Further, Darwin did not present natural selection as a line of evidence. Darwin presented breeding as a line of evidence, then took a leap of faith that there was something analogous in Nature. Something "like" the intelligent breeder. But this something was not intelligent and had no foresight. IOW, after arguing by analogy, confessing the analogy doesn't really hold. But people fell for it anyways.Mung
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
08:39 AM
8
08
39
AM
PDT
Zachriel @8:
Darwin presented two primary lines of evidence; natural selection as the mechanism of adaptation, and common descent as the history of life’s divergence from shared ancestors. Both lines are required to make sense of the evidence.
No, natural selection is not a "mechanism of adaptation." Darwin simply assumed that the adaptations would naturally arise (he never offered a mechanism and didn't -- in fairness probably couldn't in his day -- know what the "mechanism" of adaptation was). Natural selection was simply the way of getting rid of the unfit, the poor adaptations, the failed variations. There was never a mechanism posited. With some early appreciation for genetics, Neo-Darwinism came along and proposed that the mechanism Darwin had needed was random mutations in DNA. Thus, Darwin's theory had found the long-needed mechanism and was now fully supported by purely natural explanations. Or at least that was the thought. Unfortunately, random mutations do not have the ability to generate the variation needed to produce all of nature's varieties. No natural "mechanism" has ever been found that is adequate to the task. And this is precisely on the primary points of evolutionary critics: the needed variations, the great creative power of the evolutionary mechanism has never been shown; it is just assumed. Yes, Darwin proposed common descent. But this is an indirect inference that again lacks a mechanism or adequate evidentiary support. There are myriad issues with common descent, at least the naturalistic version of it. Nevertheless, many evolution critics are willing to even go so far as to accept common descent because it still doesn't explain the source of the adaptations, it still doesn't explain the source of biological novelty, it still doesn't do away with the need for a designing intelligence. Such individuals might agree with you that common descent is required to make sense of the evidence. But even common descent does not mean we are dealing with RM+NS or some other purely natural process. To really make sense of the evidence, you need to be willing to take off the naturalistic blinders and consider that life may appear designed because it is designed. Until one is willing to consider that possibility, they will always be forced to make unsupported assumptions and intellectually-unsound leaps of faith to cram the evidence into their worldview.Eric Anderson
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
08:05 AM
8
08
05
AM
PDT
Has someone produced an evolutionary theory? What journal is it published in? Who were the authors? What predictions does it make? What quantification methodology does it use? Inquiring minds want to know...Virgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
06:27 AM
6
06
27
AM
PDT
There isn't any evidence that natural selection can produce adaptations and universal common descent still cannot be objectively tested.Virgil Cain
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
06:26 AM
6
06
26
AM
PDT
Darwin presented two primary lines of evidence; natural selection as the mechanism of adaptation, and common descent as the history of life's divergence from shared ancestors. Both lines are required to make sense of the evidence.Zachriel
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
06:17 AM
6
06
17
AM
PDT
EA (attn, Seversky): Excellent. Though, I would suggest that the rot is deeper, going to a radical attempt to impose an evolutionary materialist redefinition of science which then twists any questioning of materialistic a priorism into a perceived attack on science. In this context, I note Seversky's attempted dismissive, "straw man." However, let us note what the US National Science Teachers Association Board put forth as official view in July 2000 (reportedly after a major and expensive study), in the general context of setting the partyline for science education, reflective of broader institutional and media message dominance by the sort of a priori evolutionary materialism as has been documented elsewhere:
Although no single universal step-by-step scientific method captures the complexity of doing science, a number of shared values and perspectives characterize a scientific approach to understanding nature. Among these are a demand for naturalistic explanations [--> note, demand for imposed naturalism, i.e. evolutionary materialism] supported by empirical evidence [--> the q-begging circle having been set] that are, at least in principle, testable against the natural world [--> in which context gross extrapolation is easily fed into the fallacy of galloping hypotheses, cf. OP]. Other shared elements include observations, rational argument [--> evolutionary materialism is inherently self referentially incoherent by undermining mind and reason], inference, skepticism [--> it is an error to imagine "skepticism" is an intellectual virtue], peer review and replicability of work . . . . Science, by definition, is limited to naturalistic methods and explanations and, as such, is precluded from using supernatural elements [--> note loaded language, in a context where ever since Plato in The Laws Bk X, 360 BC . . . and the NSTA knew or could easily have known this, the proper alternative to blind chance and mechanical necessity is the ART-ificial, acting by intelligently directed configuration, aka design] in the production of scientific knowledge. [NSTA, Board of Directors, July 2000]
So, at minimum we have a clear example among others of ideological imposition and question begging in the context of setting the politically correct agenda for science education. The gross dereliction of moral responsibility for education is patent, as is the equally obvious complicity and enabling behaviour of major science institutions (e.g. US NAS and NSTA jointly intervened in Kansas to threaten the Board there, parents and teachers etc by holding students hostage under threat of arbitrary exclusion for the thought crime of teaching a more traditional definition of science). Let me cite the pivotal paragraph of that 2005 joint letter:
. . . the members of the Kansas State Board of Education who produced Draft 2-d of the KSES have deleted text defining science as a search for natural explanations of observable phenomena, blurring the line between scientific and other ways of understanding. Emphasizing controversy in the theory of evolution -- when in fact all modern theories of science are continually tested and verified -- and distorting the definition of science are inconsistent with our Standards and a disservice to the students of Kansas. Regretfully, many of the statements made in the KSES related to the nature of science and evolution also violate the document’s mission and vision. Kansas students will not be well-prepared for the rigors of higher education or the demands of an increasingly complex and technologically-driven world if their science education is based on these standards. Instead, they will put the students of Kansas at a competitive disadvantage as they take their place in the world.
It is hard to avoid the conclusion that this letter is a threat, rooted in speaking in disregard to duties of care to the truth and the right, hoping to profit by what is said or suggested being taken as true. (And yes, I just stated a definition of lying, which can be simplified to: calculated, willful deception . . . where, it is implied that one knows or should reasonably know and state, the truth.) The contrast between the radical redefinition of 2001 (patently rooted in the thought behind the declaration of 2000) and the [ultimately, failed] attempt to restore a more traditional and less ideologically loaded school level understanding of science . . . which now turns out to be a portent that points to the much broader imposition of NewSpeak and DoubleThink etc on law and society (e.g. consider legalistic and media games with marriage) . . . speaks volumes:
2001 Radical Re-Definition: “Science is the human activity of seeking natural explanations of the world around us.” 2005 More Traditional Definition: “Science is a systematic method of continuing investigation, that uses observation, hypothesis testing, measurement, experimentation, logical argument and theory building, to lead to more adequate explanations of natural phenomena.”
The agit-prop, media message dominance agenda that manipulated public opinion to reject the more traditional, more objective understanding, is utterly inexcusable. It is also a warning as to what has been going on and where it is headed as our civilisation is increasingly drawn into a suicidal march of folly. In that context, you are quite right to point out the ideological imposition, gross extrapolation from minor micro evolution to imagined proof of a grandiose metaphysically loaded and deeply question-begging narrative perceived as TRUTH and even as FACT (that term itself having been conveniently redefined). Let us hope there will be some willingness to wake up before it is too late. KF PS: Mapou, the design inference is a simple inductive inference from tested, empirically reliable sign per vera causa. Functionally specific, complex organisation and/or associated information (FSCO/I) has but one empirically reliable, observed cause, intelligently directed configuration. Once this point burns through the message dominance games, let the metaphysical chips lie where they fly. The major, and revolutionary, prediction is that such FSCO/I -- the relevant form of CSI, and which embraces relevant cases of irreducible complexity also -- will remain as a strong and reliable index of design as cause. This has direct implications for not only the world of life including OOL and origin of body plans (OOBP), but for origin of the cosmos and for the nature of mind. This last, once we put on the table the observation that computation on a relevant hardware substrate is a blind mechanical, non rational cause-effect process, and cannot in itself ground rational, responsible freedom based contemplation. Which last is the basis for rationality and for the credibility of knowledge. Haldane's challenge is pivotal:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For if my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” [["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209.]
PPS: It seems the authentication test has become buggykairosfocus
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
02:36 AM
2
02
36
AM
PDT
EA:
[Mapou: Please, let’s stick to the issues.]
Eric, My problem with this piece is that you continue to act as if Darwinists are somehow sincere in their beliefs and that they are not lying through their teeth and insulting the public's intelligence with their forked tongues. You are so wrong. Darwinists are under evil influence. It's time to stop pussyfooting around with that lying bunch. They've already taken over the schools and the mass media. Church sermons and Sunday schools don't stand a chance. It's also time for the ID camp to start making some serious biological predictions based on intelligence and design. But first ID researchers must get rid of all that religious and philosophical baggage they carry around with them. All that nonsense about the designer being a simple yet omniscient, omnipotent and altogether impossible mythical being straight out of medieval Church doctrine has got to go. It's 2015 for crying out loud. We have a better grip on logic nowadays.Mapou
October 18, 2015
October
10
Oct
18
18
2015
12:54 AM
12
12
54
AM
PDT
Seversky: It is easy to complain with two words. I would like to hear the substance behind your comment. Feel free to explain how proponents of evolutionary theory so often go from an observation of a change in a population to "evolution is true" and "those who doubt evolution are wrong," if not via the steps I have outlined above. I am open to hearing how you think the conclusions are reached if not as I have outlined. The kind of thinking I have outlined in the OP is not rare, it is not an anomaly -- it is rampant in evolutionary thought. It is not a straw man. It is central to the whole rhetorical structure that supports the larger claims of the theory.Eric Anderson
October 17, 2015
October
10
Oct
17
17
2015
10:35 PM
10
10
35
PM
PDT
This is a great thread. Well done. Hits bullseye. IT is about evidence and so the great claims of heaps of evidence for evolution. It is just lines of reasoning, true or not, from small steps equals great results. darwin said this in effect and said WHY NOT/ Yet its not scientific evidence. ITS LINES OF REASONING from data points. I say the biggest failure is the non existence of biological scientific evidence. SO why is it a biological theory? The evidences are about non biological stuff. Comparative anatomy, and genetics, fossils, biogeography, etc. Not actual gooey biological processes. just after fact data points. Exactly what a false idea in biology origins would look like!! ID thinkers make this mistake too. Fossils are not biology evidence except for that fossil. Cambrian explosion ID folks also stumble here. A wrong idea couldn't have evidence. IMpossible to have scientific evidence.. YES Evolutionism has survived because of failure to understand its lack of bio sci evidence.Everyone flopped on this. .Creationists should make a drumbeat about this.Robert Byers
October 17, 2015
October
10
Oct
17
17
2015
09:26 PM
9
09
26
PM
PDT
1 5 6 7 8

Leave a Reply