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Hypothetical mammal study suggests mammals slept through dinosaurs’ end, 67 mya?

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(One rather hopes so. 😉 )

Anyway, LiveScience reports:

A shrewlike creature in Madagascar that can hibernate for at least nine months of the year without waking may help reveal how mammals survived the cataclysm that ended the age of dinosaurs, researchers suggest.

The researchers created a virtual model, the “Shrëwdinger,” which they claim,

“We have all these placentals alive today, from elephants to shrews, from things that fly to things that swim,” Spaulding said. “What could the common ancestor of these things that are so different possibly look like?”

The scientists then worked with an artist to illustrate this ancestor. In addition to a furry tail, the researchers suggest the four-legged creature likely ate insects, weighed from 6 grams (about the weight of some shrews) up to 245 grams — less than half a pound — and was more adapted for general scampering than built for more specialized forms of movement, such as swinging from trees. Also, its cerebral cortex — the part of the brain linked to higher mental processes — was probably convoluted, folds linked with greater brain activity, the researchers found.

There is no question that the researchers have analyzed a great deal of data, combining genetic and fossil data.

But something feels not quite right about creating a hypothetical (virtual) ancestor. That’s what it is; everyone acknowledges that the Shrëwdinger was invented by the researchers and never actually existed. The 2013 article on the invention is nonetheless headlined, “Meet Your Mama: First Ancestor of All Placental Mammals Revealed.”

Of course, it is possible that, in these times, the distinction between science, art, and science fiction is becoming at best superfluous, and at worst burdensome to maintain.

Incidentally, they argue that the original ancestor of placental mammals developed about 200,000 to 400,000 years after the extinction, 36 million years later than the genetic data suggest. If so, fast work. Probabilities without  new information?

Note: Could the hibernators sleep that long? Despite that force? We are talking about a probable asteroid hit, not a string of bad summers.

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Comments
logically_speaking said: "If it were accepted that some things in biology are intelligently designed, we could use our knowledge of design processes, design constraints, information and engineering to determine the internal structure and functions and processes of the Ebola virus What do we know about the Intelligent Designer's design processes, design constraints, information, and engineering? I haven't seen any mention of that in the scientific literature. If you really want to find the answer to your question, I think someone like Michael Behe would be a good person to ask. Ah, Michael Behe. He's the guy that claims the Intelligent Designer has been visiting Earth in the last few decades and giving malaria parasites a resistance to our drugs. Since the Designer obviously wants more humans to die why do you suppose it would be any different with Ebola?Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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I just think it's more productive to talk about real things rather than imaginary animals and their imaginary stories of surviving imaginary disasters.logically_speaking
November 1, 2014
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News, "Don’t know how we got started talking about ebola. Societal anxiety perhaps". My fault, sorry.logically_speaking
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu, "Logically_speaking can you please outline the work that Intelligent Design scientists are doing on investigating Ebola and trying to find a vaccine"? Why should I? What's any of that got to do with the scientists I was talking about? Wouldn't it be better if all scientists of all persuasions, no matter what they believe figure out how to kill this thing? Your post just seems to be a knee jerk polarity response. If you really want to find the answer to your question, I think someone like Michael Behe would be a good person to ask. "Science has been tracking the continued evolution of the Ebola virus since at least 1976. The CDC uses such data to help predict future trends in the evolution of the virus that might make vaccines under development now ineffective. What does the ID paradigm predict and how is it useful in this instance"? Well obviously if ebola has not been beaten for nealy 40 years, perhaps we do need a new paradigm. If it were accepted that some things in biology are intelligently designed, we could use our knowledge of design processes, design constraints, information and engineering to determine the internal structure and functions and processes of the Ebola virus. In other words, we would find the switches that turn it off.logically_speaking
November 1, 2014
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News at 17 "But 9 months is clearly not enough hibernation time if current thinking about the scope of the cataclysm is accurate. Something more like the 17 year locust might be the range we are looking for. Interesting Madagascar creature, though Pretty sure the hypothesis isn't that the animal hibernated all the way through the disaster and the worst effects which lasted for hundreds if not thousands of years. A more likely scenario is the "nuclear winter" where average global temperatures plummet due to all the dust/smoke in the atmosphere. Animals may have had to cope with only a few short months a year of barely warm enough temperatures and the rest of the year being frigid. A species with the ability to hibernate through the worst of the year and store up on food in the few warmer months could make it through until the climate eventually returned to normal.Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu at 4 and wd400 at 8: Many factors doubtless contributed. But 9 months is clearly not enough hibernation time if current thinking about the scope of the cataclysm is accurate. Something more like the 17 year locust might be the range we are looking for. Interesting Madagascar creature, though. Don't know how we got started talking about ebola. Societal anxiety perhaps.News
November 1, 2014
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For tjguy at 12: 1. Your link is broken 2. AnswersInGenesis is not a credible scientific source, to put it mildly. 3. My question was about using the ID paradigm and you started in about atheists and Christians. What does that have to do with the topic?Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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Dr. JDD said: "No it is a fallacy by you because once again you fail to understand how even YEC’s accept the evolution of an organism within the boundaries of their own species." That still doesn't answer my question about ID's potential use but it is interesting nonetheless. I wasn't aware science had identified any such boundaries in species. Can you please describe them and cite the scientific research where the boundaries were identified and measured? I do hope to not get another YEC argument like "we've never seen it happen". Do you think Ebola was intelligently designed? When and by who?Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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No it is a fallacy by you because once again you fail to understand how even YEC's accept the evolution of an organism within the boundaries of their own species. This is nothing to do with Darwinists - it is simple genetics that all camps accept (but you try to make out as though this is from the achievements of Darwinism and make out those with a differing view have contributed nothing).Dr JDD
November 1, 2014
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Dr JDD said: Enkidu speaks like there has been no contribution to “science” (such as ebola, cancer, heart disease, medical advances, etc, etc) by those of the ID persuasion. What a fallacy. Please Dr JDD, read what I wrote. I asked what advances have been made in Ebola research by ID scientists using the ID paradigm. Too many times I see religious folks claims Young Earth Creationism is true simply because Famous Scientist XYZ was a YEC. But no scientists anywhere ever made an advancement using the YEC paradigm. If ID wishes to distance itself from Biblical Creationism it shouldn't be using Biblical Creationist arguments.Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu @9
Science has been tracking the continued evolution of the Ebola virus since at least 1976.
Below is an article that discusses the "evolution" of ebola and why it really is not evolution. https://answersingenesis.org/biology/microbiology/is-ebola-epidemic-evolution-in-action/<code
The CDC uses such data to help predict future trends in the evolution of the virus that might make vaccines under development now ineffective. What does the ID paradigm predict and how is it useful in this instance?
I haven't noticed any atheists in the news for going to help fight ebola and treat patients in Africa. (I have no idea if any atheist doctors or health workers went to volunteer or not. I'm not saying they didn't. I just haven't heard of any.) On the other hand, I have noticed in the news that a number of Christian doctors who were already serving the poor in Africa were involved in fighting the disease on the front lines. A number of them even contracted the disease. Fortunately they survived! How active are atheists in helping to fight the disease and in caring for those who contracted the disease? If you have any stories, I'd love to hear them.tjguy
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu speaks like there has been no contribution to "science" (such as ebola, cancer, heart disease, medical advances, etc, etc) by those of the ID persuasion. What a fallacy. This is what the naturalists would have people believe - that unless you subscribe to naturalistic evolution you cannot be a true scientist that advances scientific knowledge.Dr JDD
November 1, 2014
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A shrewlike creature in Madagascar that can hibernate for at least nine months of the year without waking MAY help reveal how mammals survived the cataclysm that ended the age of dinosaurs, researchers suggest.
(Assuming there was such a cataclysm.)But, on the other hand, it MIGHT NOT help explain the problem. Who really knows?! Why report on something that is an unknown? It might help, but then again it might not help. Why not wait until it is determined one way or another before spouting off with a news release! The words "might, perhaps, maybe, probably, is thought to have, could have, etc." are common in many articles having to do with evolution. Why? - if we are dealing in science? These words do not belong. If it is a hypothesis, that is fine. State it as such and try and falsify it or verify it. Give them credit for at least being honest and admitting that they don't know. They could just announce it as if it was fact, so at least that part is positive. This again just shows the limits of historical science that evolutionists, IDers, and creationists all face. Both sides face data that can be interpreted in various ways. Both sides face data that don't fit the paradigm as well as other data. Both sides make attempts to explain why that may be, but neither side is able to validate their attempt at explaining the puzzle.tjguy
November 1, 2014
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Logically_speaking can you please outline the work that Intelligent Design scientists are doing on investigating Ebola and trying to find a vaccine? Science has been tracking the continued evolution of the Ebola virus since at least 1976. The CDC uses such data to help predict future trends in the evolution of the virus that might make vaccines under development now ineffective. What does the ID paradigm predict and how is it useful in this instance?Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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How to you guys think some mammals (and snails and turtles and alligators and insects and lizards and birds, which are dinosaurs by the way) survived the impact? You seem to be skeptical that hibernation would allow it, but it's true that these lineage survived the impact, isn't it? Or do you actually think all those lineages were wiped out created anew ~65 million years ago?wd400
November 1, 2014
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Why don't these "scientists" instead of wasting everybody's time and money on imaginary animals, actually do some worthwhile work. Something along the lines of stopping ebola from killing us perhaps.logically_speaking
November 1, 2014
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Edward siad "Enkidu, yes I did read the article. It was very amusing, hence the mirth evident in my post. And as I also said, a deep and abiding faith." Have you read the actual research? Can you point to any errors the researchers made? On what do you base your personal disbelief? "Further note: too bad the dino-dingers didn’t hibernate, living dinosaurs would be cool! The close relatives of dinosaurs did survive the Chicxulub mass extinction. They're called birds.Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu, yes I did read the article. It was very amusing, hence the mirth evident in my post. On a more serious note, as News indicated, the magnatude of a disaster that would wipe out a whole class of animals earthwide would have long term repercussions. I don't know if 9 month hibernation buys you much. I would help to have forknowledge so you could plan food, supplies, and shelter. I would also be nice to have an onhand supply of cedar logs and pitch. And as I also said, a deep and abiding faith. Further note: too bad the dino-dingers didn't hibernate, living dinosaurs would be cool! :-) HTH, EdEdward
November 1, 2014
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News at 3: Do you think that a nine month hibernation would be sufficient to survive a cataclysm that took out every single dinosaur family I have no idea how much hibernation contributed to mammals' survival but it certainly wouldn't have hurt. I do know the Chicxulub impactor of 65 million years ago was a real event that caused the extinction of a large percentage of life on Earth. I do know mammals managed to survive somehow. I do know extant mammals descended from those mammalian survivors. There are many details that may be lost forever in the fog of time but isn't it neat that scientists are at least searching for them?Enkidu
November 1, 2014
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Enkidu at 2: Do you think that a nine month hibernation would be sufficient to survive a cataclysm that took out every single dinosaur family?News
November 1, 2014
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Edward said: "So the 6 -> 245 gram shrëwdinger slept 9 months to survive. Great. I wonder how long the snakedinger, the newtdinger, the turtledinger, the snaildinger or the butterflydinger had to sleep." Did you read the whole article? Actual living mammals were studied too. In Madagascar there lives the tenrec which does hibernate up to 9 months a year as a means of regulating their body temperature. I found this with a good explanation. Managing high temperatures: tenrecsEnkidu
November 1, 2014
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So the 6 -> 245 gram shrëwdinger slept 9 months to survive. Great. I wonder how long the snakedinger, the newtdinger, the turtledinger, the snaildinger or the butterflydinger had to sleep. Oh, the deep and abiding faith it must take. EdEdward
November 1, 2014
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