Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community
evo

The hole of the SLoT

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Definition of the 2nd law of thermodynamics (SLoT).

This law (in its statistical mechanics sense) states that an isolated system goes towards its more probable states (those more numerous). Since the disordered states are countless, while the ordered/organized ones are few, a closed system spontaneously goes towards disorder/disorganization (related to entropy).

Difference between order and organization.

Increase of order implies decrease of entropy. Examples of order in nature are crystals; soap bubbles and raindrops are examples of naturally ordered quasi-spheres. Examples of order in human artefacts are the pattern of wood in a fence and the configuration of seats in a cinema.
Organization also implies persistent decrease of entropy, but is far more and far higher than order. Organization is qualitatively different from order. Organization always involves functional hierarchies and complex specified information (CSI). Examples of organization in nature are cells and organisms. Examples of organization in human technology are engines and computers.

A key point: the relation between organization and entropy is non symmetrical. (Intuitive example of non symmetrical relation: rain implies decrease of dryness, but decrease of dryness does not imply rain – decrease of dryness may well have other causes.) While organization implies persistent decrease of entropy, a decrease of entropy alone does not imply organization. Put differently: while entropy destroys organization, its opposite – neghentropy – doesn’t create organization. While it is true that what decreases order destroys also organization, it is false that what increases order creates also organization.

By increasing order we don’t get organization, like by increasing numbers we don’t get elephants or spaceships, like by increasing a rectangle we don’t get a circle or a fractal. Organization is not at all the limit which order tends to. Between increasing order and organization there is a deep discontinuity, a “hole”.

Graphical representation of the 2nd law.

See this picture:

close

Where the organized state (red zone) is one, the ordered states (yellow zone) are some and the disordered states (green zone) are countless. Since the disordered states are far more numerous than the other states they are more probable (leading to the continue tendency for disorder stated by the 2nd law). In the picture the 2nd law tendency is symbolized by the gravity force applied to the red ball. The red ball always tends towards the bottom, towards the disordered states. The discontinuity between organization and order – the “hole” – is represented by the tunnel between the red zone and the yellow zone. The ball never reaches the red zone of organization because, also if it climbs the mountain, it falls in the hole and crosses the tunnel.

Biological unguided evolution.

Evolution supposes that all the biological organization on Earth arose spontaneously (naturalistic origin of life + naturalistic origin of species).

Corollary of the 2nd law.

In an isolated system, organization never increases spontaneously. Hence the 2nd law refutes evolution. The absurdity of evolution is illustrated in the following picture:

evo

Evolution would involve countless scenarios where the red balls stay permanently on the top of the peaks. Consequently the 2nd law disproves evolution because evolution would represent a set of events practically impossible.

Evolutionist “compensation argument”.

To rebut the above corollary, usually evolutionists resort to this argument. Since the Earth is not isolated, the 2nd law does not forbid a local (on Earth) decreases in entropy (which is all biological organisms represent, and no more than evolution is posited to do), gained at the cost of increased entropy in the surroundings (the solar system) (or, as long as the system exports a sufficient amount of entropy to its surroundings). So evolution can happen on Earth.

Refutation of the “compensation argument”.

The main counter-point is that, no, decrease in entropy is not “all biological organisms represent”. Organisms eminently represent organization. They are even ultra-complex systems. As said above, simple decrease in entropy is not organization. Evolutionists use “entropy” as a “free lunch” for evolution: entropy increases there, so entropy decrease here and organisms arise here at zero cost, while the 2nd law is safe. Too good to be true. Since entropy is related to disorder, then I cause a big mess (easy task) there to get organization (difficult task) here? Do you see the nonsense?

Second, call A the open system and B its surroundings. “Increased entropy in the surroundings” means that B has increased its disorder, going towards a more disordered state. This additional disorder in B becomes (in the mind of evolutionists) sort of “money” to pay the organization in A. Just this concept appears paradoxical: to pay organization by means of disorder. It is like to say: a disease in my wife 🙁 increases my health :).

Third, the reasoning is also absurd when we speak of probability. “Increased entropy in the surroundings” means that in B happened events more probable than the events happened before. These more probable events become (in the mind of evolutionists) sort of “magic” that creates organization in A. In turn, this organization in A is events with low probability that happen. So the whole reasoning is: probable events happened in B cause improbable events in A. It is like to say: the shopping expenses of my wife 🙁 cause my winning the lottery :).

In short, the evolutionist “compensation argument” is something like “non-X causes X”. It helps exactly zero the case for evolution, and doesn’t save evolution against the 2nd law.

The bottom line is: improbable events related to organization in a system remain improbable independently from the fact that we consider the system closed or open. Unless evolutionists are able to prove that some external cause is really able to reduce somehow such improbabilities, by injecting CSI to create organization. So far evolutionists have not succeeded in such task, their “compensation argument” is laughable. While IDers have a name for an organizational cause: intelligence.

Comments
In other words, since: (1) order and organization are different; (2) evolution and development are changes in organization; (3) the 2nd Law is about the tendency towards less order in closed systems; (4) evolution and developmemt do not violate the 2nd Law.Kantian Naturalist
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
03:12 AM
3
03
12
AM
PDT
It's good to see that niwrad distinguishes between "order", as in entropy, and "organisation" ("Organization always involves functional hierarchies and complex specified information (CSI))". However, the 2nd Law is not about "organization" but about entropy, i.e. order. As niwrad points out,organisation is not the same thing as entropy ("the relation between organization and entropy is non symmetrical"). So niwrad has neatly shown why Granville Sewell's argument about evolution necessitating a violation of the 2nd Law is false. There may well be a different law (Dembski's conservation of information law?) that forbids the spontaneous generation of "CSI", but that law is not the 2nd law of thermodynamics. As I have consistently said, Granville's argument boils down to Dembski's - the 2nd Law part of it is both irrelevant and incorrect.Elizabeth B Liddle
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
02:55 AM
2
02
55
AM
PDT
Of note: One might reasonably ask, since random mutations persistently degrade functional information instead of create it, what prevents the functional information in life from degrading in fairly short order? Well the answer to that question, in so far as we are able to accurately answer that question, is multiple layers of extraordinary DNA repair mechanisms: Repair mechanisms in DNA include, but are not limited to:
A proofreading system that catches almost all errors A mismatch repair system to back up the proofreading system Photoreactivation (light repair) Removal of methyl or ethyl groups by O6 – methylguanine methyltransferase Base excision repair Nucleotide excision repair Double-strand DNA break repair Recombination repair Error-prone bypass http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
The overlapping, integrated, fashion in which different repair mechanisms interact with each other is a wonder in and of itself,,
A Look at the Quality Control System in the Protein Factory - JonathanM - March 2012 Excerpt: The DNA damage response (DDR) system is like a cellular special ops force. The moment such damage is detected, an intricate network of communication and recruitment launches into action. If the cellular process for making proteins were a factory, this would be the most advanced quality-control system ever designed. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/03/a_look_at_the_q057791.html Quantum Dots Spotlight DNA-Repair Proteins in Motion - March 2010 Excerpt: "How this system works is an important unanswered question in this field," he said. "It has to be able to identify very small mistakes in a 3-dimensional morass of gene strands. It's akin to spotting potholes on every street all over the country and getting them fixed before the next rush hour." Dr. Bennett Van Houten - of note: A bacterium has about 40 team members on its pothole crew. That allows its entire genome to be scanned for errors in 20 minutes, the typical doubling time.,, These smart machines can apparently also interact with other damage control teams if they cannot fix the problem on the spot. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100311123522.htm
,,and such extensively integrated repair mechanisms for DNA achieve such a fidelity that it caused even Richard Dawkins to remark:
‘How good would each typists have to be, in order to match the DNA’s performance? The answer is almost too ludicrous to express. For what it is worth, every typists would have to have an error rate of about one in a trillion; that is, he would have to be accurate enough to make only a single error in typing the Bible 250,000 times at a stretch. Richard Dawkins - The Blind Watchmaker - Page 123-124 Proof reading of DNA polymerase (error correction rate found to be to a greater fidelity of 1 in 100 million) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOi88novQV0
But the obvious problem that immediately pops out is that having such efficient, and extensively overlapping, repair mechanisms in place severely limits the ability of random mutations to DNA to be the 'driving force of evolution' as neo-Darwinists hold:
The Evolutionary Dynamics of Digital and Nucleotide Codes: A Mutation Protection Perspective - February 2011 Excerpt: "Unbounded random change of nucleotide codes through the accumulation of irreparable, advantageous, code-expanding, inheritable mutations at the level of individual nucleotides, as proposed by evolutionary theory, requires the mutation protection at the level of the individual nucleotides and at the higher levels of the code to be switched off or at least to dysfunction. Dysfunctioning mutation protection, however, is the origin of cancer and hereditary diseases, which reduce the capacity to live and to reproduce. Our mutation protection perspective of the evolutionary dynamics of digital and nucleotide codes thus reveals the presence of a paradox in evolutionary theory between the necessity and the disadvantage of dysfunctioning mutation protection. This mutation protection paradox, which is closely related with the paradox between evolvability and mutational robustness, needs further investigation." http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2011/04/26/dna_repair_mechanisms_reveal_a_contradic Contradiction in evolutionary theory - video - (The contradiction between extensive DNA repair mechanisms and the necessity of 'random mutations/errors' for Darwinian evolution) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzh6Ct5cg1o
Of course all this should have humbled Darwinists in their grandiose claims for the power of random mutations,,, But alas, humbleness seems to have been naturally selected out of many of the Darwinian faithful. Supplemental note:
Extreme Genome Repair - 20 March 2009 Excerpt: If its naming had followed, rather than preceded, molecular analyses of its DNA, the extremophile bacterium Deinococcus radiodurans might have been called Lazarus. After shattering of its 3.2 Mb genome into 20–30 kb pieces by desiccation or a high dose of ionizing radiation, D. radiodurans miraculously reassembles its genome such that only 3 hr later fully reconstituted nonrearranged chromosomes are present, and the cells carry on, alive as normal. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867409002657
But all that 'repair' pales in comparison with the 'ultimate repair' that will happen for us if we are willing Verse and Music:
Psalms 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah. NEEDTOBREATHE - Washed By The Water (video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOjpkqrCEOU
bornagain77
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
02:36 AM
2
02
36
AM
PDT
Nice article niwrad. The simplest way for Darwinists to prove that they are not talking complete nonsense with their compensation argument would be for them to actually show an increase of functional information above what is already present in cells. But, as this article from Dr. Behe found for laboratory evolution experiments of microbes going back four decades, such evidence is not forthcoming for Darwinists:
“The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain - Michael Behe - December 2010 Excerpt: In its most recent issue The Quarterly Review of Biology has published a review by myself of laboratory evolution experiments of microbes going back four decades.,,, The gist of the paper is that so far the overwhelming number of adaptive (that is, helpful) mutations seen in laboratory evolution experiments are either loss or modification of function. Of course we had already known that the great majority of mutations that have a visible effect on an organism are deleterious. Now, surprisingly, it seems that even the great majority of helpful mutations degrade the genome to a greater or lesser extent.,,, I dub it “The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain. http://behe.uncommondescent.com/2010/12/the-first-rule-of-adaptive-evolution/
If one were practicing science rationally where evidence takes primacy over philosophy, instead of the other way around as Darwinists practice science, then Behe's finding should have, by all rights, severely humbled Darwinian claims claims in this area. But that is not what we find. We find Darwinists, such as keiths, calling other people, who are much more qualified than he is to assess the situation, 'confused', even though keiths, or any other Darwinists, have absolutely ZERO direct empirical evidence that they can appeal to to show that non-trivial functional information has been generated in life instead of persistently degraded.bornagain77
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
01:36 AM
1
01
36
AM
PDT
keiths, you write 2 sentences and just are self-contradictory: I cannot "take some of the pressure off Granville" and "prolong the pain for Granville" in the same time.niwrad
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
01:23 AM
1
01
23
AM
PDT
Alas, I'm off to bed so the Brits and the Europeans will get the first crack at this.keiths
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
12:51 AM
12
12
51
AM
PDT
Yay! Another second law thread! Niwrad seems to be pretty confused, so at least this should take some of the pressure off Granville. (On the other hand, it may prolong the pain for Granville, since we'll be talking about the errors that niwrad and Granville have both made, like disputing the compensation argument.)keiths
July 8, 2013
July
07
Jul
8
08
2013
12:49 AM
12
12
49
AM
PDT
1 3 4 5

Leave a Reply