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Thomas Aquinas contra Transformism

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In my previous post Synthesis-versus-Analysis I dealt with the distinction between “true whole” and “false whole”. Now let’s see how that had relations with Aquinas and his refutation of biological macroevolution.

About the origin of man and the relations between his soul and body, Aquinas was clear:

Reply to objection 3: Some have claimed that the [first] man’s body was formed antecedently in time, and that later on God infused a soul into the already formed body. But it is contrary to the nature of the perfection of the first production of beings that God would make either the body without the soul or the soul without the body; for each of them is a part of human nature. It is especially inappropriate to make the body without the soul, since the body depends on the soul, but not vice versa. [Summa Theologiae, 91, IV]

Note that the above quote especially applies to the negation of the arise of man from a non-human being (anthropoid). But in general denies the material macroevolution of any living being, because no being is inanimate (also if obviously human soul is incomparably higher than any animal soul) and Aquinas states that “soul is the form of the body” (in Scholasticism, in general, the “form” is the qualitative “principle” or “essence” of a thing):

Reply to objection 3: […] But since the soul is the form of the body, it does not have esse separately from the body’s esse; instead, it is united to the body directly through its own esse. [ibidem, 76, VII]

We can conclude that Aquinas is contra universal macroevolution in principle, because macroevolution is transformation of bodies only, while in Aquinas soul and body are not separable and the latter causatively depends on the former. By the way, this crystalline Aquinas’ position, shows how inconsistent are some Catholics (or even neo-Thomists!) who think to can believe, in the same time, in the Catholic doctrine (of which Aquinas is the master reference) and biological transformism.

But here I want to elaborate a bit specifically the above Aquinas statement: “But it is contrary to the nature of the perfection of the first production of beings that God would make either the body without the soul or the soul without the body”.

Beings are “perfect” because they are “true wholes”. If they are “true wholes” then their constitution / organization spiritus-anima-corpus must be an integrated “unit” or “oneness”. As I said in the linked post a “true whole” is a synthesis that can be neither produced nor conceived by analysis, rather only by means of “synthetic knowledge” (related to intelligent design). Because of such “synthetic knowledge” any kind of being is a top-down manifestation / instantiation of a metaphysical archetype into matter, by means of a vertical causation across the three layers: spiritual, animic (soul), corporeal (body).

Differently, a material macroevolution, or macro-morphing, of a being A to a being B would be a step-by-step analytic process, which — as we have seen — can never reach the limit of the target “true whole”. If the limit unit is not reached, and the beings are units, they neither can be produced by such analytic manner nor we can speak of “perfection”, neither about the process nor about its result. Goes without saying that such analytic process fails also because doesn’t work at all on the spiritual and animic planes.

As a consequence, only the above synthetic “vertical causation” can account for the “perfection of the production of perfect beings”, as Aquinas puts it. Any analytic serial horizontal macroevolution wouldn’t be “perfect” and wouldn’t produce “perfect” beings at all. This is the reason why Aquinas speaks of “perfection of the first production of beings” and coherently denies transformism.

Of course Aquinas’ cosmologic teachings about creatures’ origin, which are rigorously based on ontological principles, agree perfectly with the modern perspective of engineering. To provide a practical example, engineers never physically transform — say — cars into airplanes, rather they design in abstracto and assembly cars and airplanes independently. Also engineers apply an intelligent “vertical causation”, from abstract archetypes to material systems. No wonder, it couldn’t be otherwise because truth, at any level, is necessarily coherent, and the principles of intelligent design are universal.

Comments
E.Seigner
Yes, I dismiss any and all possibility of inferring design from evidence. In my view, the idea of detecting intelligent design (more obviously, the idea of detecting intelligence) stems from a category error. Pursuit of this idea can only produce pseudoscience, never science.
Thanks for your reply. In scientific terms, even though we might (correctly) say that 'God designed everything', we make a distinction between random causes and outcomes produced by physical law. We can observe, for example, that laboratory hybrids create new varieties of plants which will remain consistent for new generations. We can compare this to what happens in the wild. We can say that 'God created them all' and that's true, but for science, there is a difference between the plants hybridized in the lab and the plants left in the wild. Science would consider the conditions in the wild to be random. Weather patterns, competition, soil conditions - those are considered random. Yes, if we had access to God's divine plan for all of nature, we could know precisely where the clouds will be each moment, what shape they will take and exactly how many raindrops will fall in exactly which spots at exactly which time. God knows that. But He doesn't reveal those things - he leaves them a mystery so we have something to figure out. That mystery is what science considers "randomness" and for the sake of ordinary human conversation (perhaps some extraordinary humans know those mysteries of God), we just say that there are random causes.Silver Asiatic
August 29, 2014
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Silver Asiatic
What is your view on ID? How do you think ID detects evidence of design? Just wondering because it seems like you’re dismissing any and all inferences from evidence to a design-conclusion. Is that true?
Yes, I dismiss any and all possibility of inferring design from evidence. In my view, the idea of detecting intelligent design (more obviously, the idea of detecting intelligence) stems from a category error. Pursuit of this idea can only produce pseudoscience, never science. StephenB
No one has ever successfully argued that Aquinas is incompatible with ID.
Doesn't this very blogpost demonstrate that Aquinas' metaphysics does not permit neither macroevolution or ID? StephenB
Meanwhile, have you nothing to say about the outrage of neo-Thomists who seek to reconcile Aquinas with Darwin?
No, because I don't know such neo-Thomists. In fact, I don't know of any neo-Thomists at all, either favourable towards ID or not otherwise. And I am not a Thomist myself, just sort of familiar with Thomism. In this case there's enough Aquinas quoted on the blog post to draw serious conclusions. Somehow it seems I draw different conclusions from it than you folks.E.Seigner
August 29, 2014
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Mung
Do you really think that Aquinas meant by transformism what you mean by transformism?
Do you really think that Aquinas used the word "transformism?" That is niwrad's term to summarize Aquinas' philosophy. So if you want a definition, it will have to come from the person who decided to use the term. I will, however, tell you what I think about the question of evolution. First, there is the narrow question of what Aquinas actually believed, namely, that [a] one species cannot change into another (that doesn't mean that change cannot occur within a species). Second, there is the broader question of [b] what Aquinas' overall philosophy can be reconciled with. What someone believes to be true is not synonymous with what that belief can be reconciled with. Example: ID believes that certain features in nature are best explained by an intelligent cause. Accordingly, ID is compatible with micro or macro evolution, but it is not compatible with Darwinian evolution. Still, ID does not believe in either macro-evolution or micro evolution. I understand niwrad to be arguing the broader question about compatibility. In that context, we can be sure that Aquinas' philosphy cannot be reconciled with macro-evolution. As far as I can tell, we cannot, with that same confidence, say the same thing about micro-evolution. If you would care to argue otherwise, I would certainly listen respectfully to your case. Meanwhile, I don't think you can claim that a creationist who accepts evolution within a species violates the spirit of Thomism in the same way as the Theistic Evolutionist who accepts macro-evolution in the name of Thomism. No way.StephenB
August 28, 2014
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Mung #39 StephenB is right and I agree. Aquinas was against universal transformism, not against limited variation. He knew that organisms have a plasticity that could be injected in potency in the kinds by design just from the beginning. The distinction between ‘microevolution’ and ‘macroevolution’ (also if expressed with different words) is not anachronistic. After all artificial breeding has been practiced since the beginning of human civilization.niwrad
August 28, 2014
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SB, Do you really think that Aquinas meant by transformism what you mean by transformism? The injection of the distinction between 'microevolution' and 'macroevolution' must surely be acknowledged as blatantly anachronistic.Mung
August 28, 2014
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Mung @47, I guess I am still not clear on your objection. My understanding of niwrad's interpretation of Aquinas' philosophy, which I don't dispute, is that it rules out the transformation or "macro-evolution," which represents a continuous change in body plans, taking evolution through all the taxonomic levels. With macro-evolution (as opposed to micro-evolution) one "form" (body plan) gives way to another another form (another body plan), and then another and another. This is what I understand niwrad to mean by transformation, that is, the change from one form into another. That is what we mean by [trans][form]ation. Assuming niwrad's interpretation is correct, a non-human, which is one form (or essence) cannot give rise to a human, which is another form (or essence). I don’t understand, then, why a creationist who accepts small micro changes, none of which represent a change in form, would violate the spirit of Thomism. I know that you don’t make frivolous objections, so you must have something else in mind.StephenB
August 28, 2014
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Mung: A creationist who believes in evolution within kinds cannot be a Thomist? StephenB: Sure, why not? StephenB:
Meanwhile, have you nothing to say about the outrage of neo-Thomists who seek to reconcile Aquinas with Darwin?
That's why. How can Aquinas be reconciled with Darwin as long as it is strictly "within kinds"? According to the OP Aquinas was opposed to transformism. Now I'm hearing that he wasn't?Mung
August 28, 2014
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E. Seigner:
Here we have a post with quotes from Thomas Aquinas on an ID blog.
There is nothing at all out of order in presenting a philosophical argument against anti-Design partisans. UD defines its own parameters. Others do not define them for us. Aquinas is very popular around here for good reason.
My point is that Aquinas and ID don’t mix at all.
If that is your point, then you are in serious error. Multiple posts have been written here on that subject. No one has ever successfully argued that Aquinas is incompatible with ID. Indeed, we have made it clear that many of Aquinas' disciples do not understand ID or even their own master. He was the premiere design thinker.
Getting “simple” and “complex” all mixed up is just the tip of the iceberg here.
No one is getting them mixed up. There is the little problem of context that you are not taking into account. Meanwhile, have you nothing to say about the outrage of neo-Thomists who seek to reconcile Aquinas with Darwin?StephenB
August 28, 2014
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E.Seigner
As in whatever way the ID theory claims to be able to do it.
What is your view on ID? How do you think ID detects evidence of design? Just wondering because it seems like you're dismissing any and all inferences from evidence to a design-conclusion. Is that true?Silver Asiatic
August 28, 2014
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StephenB
I said that he was “searching” for small faults at the expense of a larger context. I didn’t mean to suggest that he “found” one. I am sorry if my language was misleading. On the other hand, I did find a small fault with his imprecise definition of ID’s complexity.
Actually, the point with my pointing out the "small fault" (which is not so small really) was also meant as an indication of a more fundamental problem. Here we have a post with quotes from Thomas Aquinas on an ID blog. My point is that Aquinas and ID don't mix at all. Getting "simple" and "complex" all mixed up is just the tip of the iceberg here.E.Seigner
August 28, 2014
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niwrad, I agree. I said that he was "searching" for small faults at the expense of a larger context. I didn't mean to suggest that he "found" one. I am sorry if my language was misleading. On the other hand, I did find a small fault with his imprecise definition of ID's complexity.StephenB
August 28, 2014
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StephenB #29 Thanks for your synopsis. However there are no "small faults". E.Seigner and I use the same terms with different meanings. He defines his terms, I define mine. Here I mean "simple" as indivisible, not composed by parts. This indivisibility doesn't necessarily mismatch with a "complexity" of aspects / attributes / contents that we can consider upon the simple thing. From our human perspective, a multiplicity can be somehow overlapped upon a unit, without any contradiction with the fact that such unit isn't composed by parts. There is difference between "composed by parts" and "multiplicity overlapped upon a unit by us". As M.Eckart concisely put it, in a unit things are "fused but not confused". By the way, indeed E.Seigner's quote from Catholic Encyclopedia does show I am coherent: “soul is itself absolutely simple [...] its higher operations [note the plural] being intrinsically independent...”. Here we have a unit with a multiplicity of higher operations (aka complexity in my sense). That's somewhat my argument.niwrad
August 28, 2014
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A creationist who believes in evolution within kinds cannot be a Thomist? Sure, why not?
StephenB
August 27, 2014
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A creationist who believes in evolution within kinds cannot be a Thomist?Mung
August 27, 2014
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E. Seigner
The fact is that when talking ID, which this blog is mostly about, “complex” basically means “complicated” and this makes it all the more important to be precise in terminology. Otherwise people might get the idea that souls can be detected like you claim to detect intelligent design.
Let's not lose track of the differences in the arguments. ID argues on behalf of design, allowing for the possibility of guided macro-evolution and ruling out unguided macro-evolution; niwrad argues against unguided macro-evolution and guided macro-evolution. Also, there is a clear difference between niwrad's assertion that gradualism cannot produce a true whole, which is based on deductive, philosophical methods, and ID's assertion that gradualism cannot produce complex specified information, which is based on inductive, scientific methods. Further, the two arguments are designed for different purposes: ID's argument exposes the rigid ideology of materialist ideology; niwrad's argument exposes the intellectual dishonesty of neo-Thomists, who slander their master by defending Darwinian evolution in his name. Yes, we could fuss over the differences in the meaning of "simple" and "complex," but it is easy to search for small faults while ignoring the larger context. Notice, for example, that for ID science, "complex" is less about being "complicated," (as you indicated), and more about being "unlikely."StephenB
August 27, 2014
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Thanks, E.Seigner. I was looking for a reference to the term "theological metaphysics" because I had never seen that before. I also don't think the term "soul" is theological. Its a philosophical term aligned with the nature of man. But yes the soul is not composed of parts. True.Silver Asiatic
August 27, 2014
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Silver Asiatic
Could you provide a couple of references here? 1. On the statement itself regarding the reservation of that term. 2. What is theological metaphysics (and the context of it)?
1. Logically, the word used for a technical term is reserved in the (con)text where it is used as the technical term. 2. It's metaphysical implications of the definition of a theological term, in this case of the term soul. Reference? E.g. the Thomist definition of the soul in Catholic Encyclopedia: "..though connaturally related to the body, it is itself absolutely simple, i.e. of an unextended and spiritual nature. It is not wholly immersed in matter, its higher operations being intrinsically independent of the organism.." "Simple" is a technical term here, provided with the definition. "Complex" is its opposite, a technical term the same way. Therefore, in comments to this blog post about Thomism one should not expect to be able to say "soul is far more complex than body" without a challenge.
Detection of intelligent design – as in forensics. Right?
As in whatever way the ID theory claims to be able to do it.E.Seigner
August 27, 2014
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Otherwise people might get the idea that souls can be detected like you claim to detect intelligent design.
Detection of intelligent design - as in forensics. Right?Silver Asiatic
August 27, 2014
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In the context of theological metaphysics, “complex” is reserved as a technical term
Could you provide a couple of references here? 1. On the statement itself regarding the reservation of that term. 2. What is theological metaphysics (and the context of it)?Silver Asiatic
August 27, 2014
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niwrad “Simple” means also “indivisible”. Right. And complex is its opposite - divisible, composite. To say that the word has multiple meanings translates directly into that you had no idea in what sense you were using it and this of course doesn't help you in any way. In the context of theological metaphysics, "complex" is reserved as a technical term and if you mean "complicated" you'd better say so. The fact is that when talking ID, which this blog is mostly about, "complex" basically means "complicated" and this makes it all the more important to be precise in terminology. Otherwise people might get the idea that souls can be detected like you claim to detect intelligent design.E.Seigner
August 27, 2014
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E.Seigner #21 In addition to what Silver Asiatic said, note that "simple" and "complex" have multiple meanings. "Simple" means also "indivisible". In some cases this indivisibility can well coexist with complexity. In the soul-body couple the former stays on the side of essence while the latter on the side of substance. The essence of soul is indeed one of those cases where there are in the same time indivisibility and complexity (the complexity of true essence). Anyway this is another topic worth of a post...niwrad
August 27, 2014
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You are right that soul is more complex than body only if by “complex” you mean “complicated for me to understand” but this is not so for all people and certainly not in standard theology.
There is a lot of complexity with regards to what the soul is and how it works. There's the physical interface and connection between soul and body, how are souls different from another (what features or characteristics distinguish them), how the soul animates the body, how different levels of memory, imagination and rationality are present in a non-composite thing, does the soul capture, store and retrieve knowledge, what are the capabilities of the soul (e.g., bilocation), what power over physical nature can the soul have, what is the precise distinction between spirit and soul, what is the difference in the soul's function in a resurrected body, how do sin and grace affect the soul, and how, precisely, God will reunite both at the final resurrection. I'd say that there are general answers to these questions in theological literature but I haven't seen anyone say that this is simple and easy-to-understand. Catechism of the Catholic Church: 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.238 368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God.239Silver Asiatic
August 27, 2014
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niwrad Moreover, “soul” is a term with countless meanings and sub-meanings, in relation with the fact that soul is far more complex than body. In Christian theology (and theology of any other major religion I know), soul is actually simple, concerning its composition. Namely, it's not composite at all. It's a single substance/essence. You are right that soul is more complex than body only if by "complex" you mean "complicated for me to understand" but this is not so for all people and certainly not in standard theology.E.Seigner
August 27, 2014
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rhampton7 #18
Catholicism is not a wrapper for Thomism.
Yes, Catholicism is not properly a "wrapper" for anything, however, for example, Pope Pius XII, in encyclical "Humani generis" (1950): "The priests be trained on the philosophical doctrines according to the method, doctrine and principles of Doctor Angelicus". The questions you put on the table are interesting and complex but are only tangentially related to my post. If the corporeal embryo development is just so complex that in the XXI century scientists don't know how it works, go figure how complex is the entire manifestation of the soul->body unit, and how hard were for Aquinas (XIII century) to know details about. But -- see Pius XII above -- Aquinas was about principles, not details. Your issues have basically to do with the development perspective of the soul->body unit, while my post was primarily about the hierarchy and the unity of soul-body. Maybe we could say, in short, the former is about the dynamics, the latter about the statics. Moreover, "soul" is a term with countless meanings and sub-meanings, in relation with the fact that soul is far more complex than body. For example, when we speak of "rational soul" (a sub-meaning) and ask the exact time when "it was infused", it is obvious that rationality is "in potency" already included in the "soul" (meant as principle of the body -- major meaning), but it will be really "in act" subsequently. This and other timing problems, in a sense are of detail compared to the matter of principle that my post wanted to focus a bit.niwrad
August 27, 2014
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The Oxford Handbook of AquinasMung
August 27, 2014
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I try not to let this stuff get to me, but this is just ignorant. Catholicism is not a wrapper for Thomism, though it is very influential in the ongoing synthesis of two thousand years of theology. More to the point, it is the Church who believes that ensoulment occurs at conception, not Aquinas (Aquinas on Human Ensoulment, Abortion and the Value of Life).
Aquinas held that God immediately creates the human soul and (at the same time) infuses it into the body. That said, the human rational soul is created and infused into the body only when the human parents have, by their generative act, produced a material substance that is disposed to receive and to be informed by a human soul. In one place Aquinas follows Aristotle in saying that the rational soul is infused at 40 days for males, and at 90 days for females. Why, then, did Aquinas hold that the process of human conception must occur gradually and incrementally? Why did he hold that first vegetative life was produced, then sensitive life, and so on? Why not immediate hominization? The answer lies in his belief that there is a great distance between the beginning point of the generative process, that is, the material out of which the human being is produced (menstrual blood), and the end point, the coming to be of a human being. Traversing this distance requires a gradual process. In one of his fuller treatments of the issue, he writes:
And we must observe a difference between the process of generation in men and animals and in air or water. The generation of air is simple, since therein only two substantial forms appear, one that is displaced and one that is induced, and all this takes place together in one instant, so that the form of water remains during the whole period preceding the induction of the form of air. On the other hand, in the generation of an animal various substantial forms appear: first the semen, then blood and so on until we find the form of an animal or of a man.
According to Pasnau, Aquinas held that in order for the rational soul to be infused, certain material conditions have to obtain. In particular, while intellectual acts are not themeselves material they depend upon the operations of the senses, and these require a developed brain. Hence the organs upon which the rational soul’s activities rely must be fully developed, in the sense of having their powers not in remote potentiality but 'in hand', that is, as immediately exercisable capacities to support intellectual operations. It is indeed true that Aquinas held that organs must be present before human ensoulment.
rhampton7
August 26, 2014
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Box #13 Only archetypes are indestructible. When they are instantiated in the cosmos as images, these images unavoidable become destructible. So, soul-body is a unit in principle (as archetype), but when it gets in "the reign of generation and corruption" (a la Aristotle) its unit can be disrupted. Similarly, a circle is a non-squared true whole in principle, but a circle drawn on a piece of paper can be cut by scissors in parts or even totally burnt.niwrad
August 25, 2014
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Bornagain77, thank you for the explanation. I have noticed that I have a totally different idea about what a "true whole" is. Let me tell you one thing: for me the mind-body-aggregate is not a candidate. And I believe that you are with me on this one.Box
August 25, 2014
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IMHO, This parts/whole argument reached its most rigorous form in Gödel's Incompleteness theorem:
Kurt Gödel – Incompleteness Theorem – video https://vimeo.com/96082228 Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem says: “Anything you can draw a circle around cannot explain itself without referring to something outside the circle – something you have to assume but cannot prove.” http://www.perrymarshall.com/articles/religion/godels-incompleteness-theorem/ Taking God Out of the Equation – Biblical Worldview – by Ron Tagliapietra – January 1, 2012 Excerpt: Kurt Gödel (1906–1978) proved that no logical systems (if they include the counting numbers) can have all three of the following properties. 1. Validity … all conclusions are reached by valid reasoning. 2. Consistency … no conclusions contradict any other conclusions. 3. Completeness … all statements made in the system are either true or false. The details filled a book, but the basic concept was simple and elegant. He summed it up this way: “Anything you can draw a circle around cannot explain itself without referring to something outside the circle—something you have to assume but cannot prove.” For this reason, his proof is also called the Incompleteness Theorem. Kurt Gödel had dropped a bomb on the foundations of mathematics. Math could not play the role of God as infinite and autonomous. It was shocking, though, that logic could prove that mathematics could not be its own ultimate foundation. Christians should not have been surprised. The first two conditions are true about math: it is valid and consistent. But only God fulfills the third condition. Only He is complete and therefore self-dependent (autonomous). God alone is “all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:28), “the beginning and the end” (Revelation 22:13). God is the ultimate authority (Hebrews 6:13), and in Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3). http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v7/n1/equation#
As to:
"Anything you can draw a circle around cannot explain itself without referring to something outside the circle"
The preceding statement has now received empirical confirmation. Particles, which we obviously can draw a circle around, are not self-sustaining entities, as is presupposed in reductive materialism, but are dependent on something outside themselves to explain why they act the way they do:
Contextuality is 'magic ingredient' for quantum computing - June 11, 2012 Excerpt: Contextuality was first recognized as a feature of quantum theory almost 50 years ago. The theory showed that it was impossible to explain measurements on quantum systems in the same way as classical systems. In the classical world, measurements simply reveal properties that the system had, such as colour, prior to the measurement. In the quantum world, the property that you discover through measurement is not the property that the system actually had prior to the measurement process. What you observe necessarily depends on how you carried out the observation. Imagine turning over a playing card. It will be either a red suit or a black suit - a two-outcome measurement. Now imagine nine playing cards laid out in a grid with three rows and three columns. Quantum mechanics predicts something that seems contradictory – there must be an even number of red cards in every row and an odd number of red cards in every column. Try to draw a grid that obeys these rules and you will find it impossible. It's because quantum measurements cannot be interpreted as merely revealing a pre-existing property in the same way that flipping a card reveals a red or black suit. Measurement outcomes depend on all the other measurements that are performed – the full context of the experiment. Contextuality means that quantum measurements can not be thought of as simply revealing some pre-existing properties of the system under study. That's part of the weirdness of quantum mechanics. http://phys.org/news/2014-06-weird-magic-ingredient-quantum.html ‘Quantum Magic’ Without Any ‘Spooky Action at a Distance’ – June 2011 Excerpt: A team of researchers led by Anton Zeilinger at the University of Vienna and the Institute for Quantum Optics and Quantum Information of the Austrian Academy of Sciences used a system which does not allow for entanglement, and still found results which cannot be interpreted classically. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110624111942.htm Falsification of Local Realism without using Quantum Entanglement - Anton Zeilinger - video http://vimeo.com/34168474 Free will and nonlocality at detection: Basic principles of quantum physics - Antoine Suarez – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMrrmlTXl4
Verse and Music:
Acts 17:28 For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.' The Broken Beautiful - Ellie Holcomb http://myktis.com/songs/broken-beautiful/
bornagain77
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Box, as was illustrated in the 'squaring the circle paradox' on niwrad's previous thread,,, a 'true whole' necessarily exists prior to, and apart from, the parts. i.e. A 'true whole' can exists apart from the parts but the parts cannot "'approach' true wholeness" without the true whole.bornagain77
August 25, 2014
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