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Eric Anderson: Why randomness is “the wrong tool for the job”

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Author and design theorist, Eric Anderson, clarifies the limitations of randomness in producing biological novelty.

Randomness is an important topic, true.  But not because it has, in and of itself, some deep substantive value or because it is going to help explain biological form and function.  It is important to the evolution-ID debate, primarily because it has been historically offered by evolutionary proponents as the fodder for change, the grist of the mill from which Darwin’s theory can operate, and we need to point out in the debate that this is a fool’s errand.

What does “random” mean in terms of mutations within evolutionary theory?

Despite the exciting headlines of several recent papers, it has nothing to do with whether there is some non-equal distribution across the genome, whether there are hot spots, or even what the actual cause of these mutations is behind the scenes.  That is not what we are talking about in terms of evaluating “random” mutations for evolutionary theory.

More critically, for purposes of intelligent design, we needn’t get into deep and esoteric discussions or hand wringing about what randomness actually means in some esoteric sense, whether anything in the universe is ever truly random, or even whether there is some underlying order that allows the randomness to be manifest.  And we needn’t all go back to get our PhD’s in mathematics or study number theory in depth in order to understand the issues.

For purposes of ID, the two corollary issues we need to appreciate are very simple:

First, randomness (specifically, random mutations for purposes of evolutionary theory), simply does not have the creative power to generate the biological novelty required to explain living organisms.  This has been discussed extensively in the ID literature….

Second, and more focused on the current discussion, we need to recognize that even if randomness isn’t truly random in some mathematical definitional sense, even if what appears random to us is governed by some underlying larger principles or follows discernible patterns, it still has no ability to generate the biological novelty required to explain living organisms

Law-like processes, by their very nature, are too general and generic to ever provide the specificity required to produce something like, say, the bacterial flagellum.  It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about the four fundamental forces or some underlying “order” to the universe that governs things.  It doesn’t matter how far under the hood you look–law-like forces or processes simply cannot ever provide the creative purchase required for the functional, coherent, information-rich systems we see in biology. 

Therefore, in terms of explaining biological systems, any proposed underlying order or principle or force or process that either produces what we perceive as randomness or that acts as a backdrop against which randomness is manifest, simply cannot explain what needs to be explained.  It is the wrong tool for the job.

—– Lastly, if what someone is really talking about is a guided process, then they are talking about purposeful activity–intelligent design.  Occasionally confusing terminology is put forth, such as guided evolution, or guided randomness, or God working behind the scenes to influence quantum interactions, and so on.  Let’s be clear.  If it is guided, then it isn’t evolution as proposed by Darwin, as accepted within the modern academy, or as defined in the biology textbooks.  If it is guided, then we are talking about design.

Comments
The “environment” has nothing for it to eat. It dies.
There are organisms around today that eat iron. They may have been around for a very long while. ETA also bacteria can eat sulfur! ETA2 What do plants eat? Sunshine!Fred Hickson
June 7, 2022
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Eric Anderson @40-43 A couple of years ago I wrote a comment on a post of yours where I mentioned Fodor and Piattelli-Palmarini's book "What Darwin Got Wrong." I'm still not going to claim to understand most of that book. Some of the arguments are mind bending and it would seem that they argue against some trivial examples of natural selection that should work. However, the book did talk about natural selection as involving an intensional fallacy and I found it very interesting. The confusion between the idea that adaptive traits are "selected" and the idea that something is "selected for" its adaptive traits. As I understand it the difference is like that between picking out the best TV on a shelf and picking out the parts that that you can use to make that TV. The latter case requires selection with foresight. The authors say that a theory of "selection for" would be necessary to explain adaptation. Given the emphasis they put on supporting counterfactuals, that would be quite a theory indeed - if it were possible to make one.hnorman42
June 7, 2022
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Compare
Also, ID does not require the supernatural.
with
It is a cosmos fine tuned for life in many ways that requires an extracosmic (sic), powerful and capable designer.
So, which is it, gentlemen?chuckdarwin
June 7, 2022
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"He then evidently let them wander where they will with the ability to adapt" What rubbish. Let's imagine the first single-celled organism appearing in a pool of water. The "environment" has nothing for it to eat. It dies. Or, that first organism does not contain the internal machinery to metabolize anything floating around it as food. It dies.relatd
June 7, 2022
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From the Talmud and the Midrash it was determined that there was a necessity for animals to evolve.
He [the Designer] indeed seems to have “carefully crafted” information in His species giving them the ability to respond to environmental stimuli to alter their own genome to adapt to new environments. He then evidently let them wander where they will with the ability to adapt.- Dr. Lee Spetner “the Evolution Revolution” p 108
ET
June 7, 2022
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ET, last I checked, young earth creationists are comfortable with adaptive radiation and see roughly the family level, cats vs dogs, as roughly where their kind threshold is. The issue is origin of life and of main body plans; ool needs 100 - 1,000 kbases and oobps 10 - 100 millions, there is no blind naturalistic process that can plausibly account for such, especially constrained to be functional all along the way and given lifespan of cosmos to date. The search resources of the sol system are overwhelmed at 500 bits and those of the observed cosmos at 1,000. All of the posturing and talking points above are in effect red herrings led away from the pivotal points. KF PS, just to scotch another barbed talking point, intelligent design is about intelligently directed configuration, detected from observable reliable signs. Evidence supporting design is adequate to hold it plausible a designer was present at relevant points. For life a molecular nanotech lab some generations beyond Venter is enough. It is a cosmos fine tuned for life in many ways that requires an extracosmic, powerful and capable designer. Notice, objectors seldom address fine tuning substantially and cogently, so they are setting up and knocking over strawmen.kairosfocus
June 7, 2022
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Wow. What imbeciles. The reason why the word "intelligent" is before "design" in intelligent design, is to differentiate between apparent design and optimal design. Also, ID does not require the supernatural. Only the willfully ignorant think that ID attacks evolution. ID is an argument against evolution BY MEANS OF BLIND AND MINDLESS PROCESSES. So, please, stop with the cowardly equivocations, already.ET
June 7, 2022
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FH/52 You are right about use of the word "design," of course. But on this blog the word has become a talisman with (literally) supernatural power and the source of endless "gotcha" comments. You are describing a quasi-deist view, which, despite its shortcomings, is vastly more palatable than the full-on evangelical Christian assault on evolutionary theory that defines the ID movement.chuckdarwin
June 7, 2022
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Again, according to Ernst Mayr in "What Evolution Is", natural selection is nonrandom in that not all variants have the same chance of being eliminated. Period. That's it.ET
June 7, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
The environment designs, or rather interaction between species and their niche environment is the non-random element that leads to adaptive change.
Just because you can keep saying that doesn't make it true. There comes a time when you have to actually present some evidence for it. And you have failed to do so. And I will side with Ernst Mayr as to what the non-random element is.ET
June 7, 2022
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Fred Hickson- evolution by means of blind and mindless processes is not a scientific view. Saying that nature produced itself is not a scientific view. I doubt that you can tell us a scientific explanation for our existence.ET
June 7, 2022
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I agree with everything in his statement except use of the phrase “the environment designs” (I don’t think the environment designs anything)...
Well, I don't think ID proponents have exclusive rights on the word "design" and I'm agnostic on teleology. I allow the possibility that the Creator of the Universe designed the unfolding of the parallel, series and nested environments so that life evolved in all its diversity (and dead ends) due to the over-arching plan of the Creator. Of course that is not a scientific view, nor one that appeals to me personally. I just can't rule it out.Fred Hickson
June 7, 2022
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Relatd/48
The opposite of randomness is direction, intelligent direction. But such an idea is forbidden.
No-the opposite of randomness is organization. Or in the parlance of physics, low entropy.chuckdarwin
June 6, 2022
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https://humanorigins.si.edu/dna-and-evolutionrelatd
June 6, 2022
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Eric, You are missing what I am saying. I understand what natural selection is. I am saying that the process by which a new variation leaves more offspring (by whatever description you want to call it - it's actually variation plus inheritance) will end up destroying its ecology if the slightly different organism ever became too robust. Otherwise, what will limit the number of offspring? The new variation is getting better in some way and that is why the organisms with the variation are leaving more offspring but what limits the number of offspring. The change must be very limited and not affect the ecology. If the variation is too strong it will end up destroying the ecology in which it resides as the offspring proliferate thus eventually destroying the ecology and the species. So the process of variation and inheritability can not leave any changes that are major. The accumulation of small changes would eventually become major and the organism would then out compete what's in its environment. So this is out too. In other words the process of variation and inheritance is inherently limited and can never explain Evolution. We are also talking about a DNA based process and there is lots of evidence that Evolution is not based on changes in DNA.jerry
June 6, 2022
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EA at 43, Well said. The opposite of randomness is direction, intelligent direction. But such an idea is forbidden. The narrative must include the term "natural" selection as if every "new/modified" organism automatically removes the previous, unmodified version from circulation. It outcompetes the other version. Not convincing.relatd
June 6, 2022
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EA I tried to edit my comment, but it didn't go through. As to the question whether "directional selection" provides "non-random direction to evolution," I think we are mixing categories. Evolution is a huge umbrella, and we are talking about a very specific part of the process. Directional selection is also called "negative selection" because it allows formerly sub-optimal phenotypes to become dominant, but it is completely contingent on the environment available to the population. So, within the larger process of "evolution," randomness is still a huge part of the game.chuckdarwin
June 6, 2022
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CD at 45, Adapt? Why? Why doesn't it just die off? Strangely, as in a fiction story, organisms can persist in their niche for millions of years but for no particular reason, since the "random" aspect of the story needs to be preserved. It's impossible that the organism was designed to live in that particular niche. Any addition like that to the story means that the whole story gets rejected. "Adaptation" makes way too many assumptions. Far too many that probability is stretched beyond the alleged age of the Universe. The right change in the right environment is a far more complicated idea than it appears. Everything is random so it's like trying to hit a certain billiard ball on multiple tables of billiard balls. If you miss, the organism dies or if you hit, the organism survives unless there is a change to the environment. If any change occurs during the lifetime of any given organism that it cannot handle, it dies. Mutations are mostly neutral or harmful, and rarely useful. So a mutation does not have to be something the organism actually needs to survive. Or it may be needed a hundred, thousand or more years from the present. The organism has no way of knowing. I recently saw a close-up of an insect trapped in amber. It had no extraneous features. It had wings and legs and compound eyes. All due to random everything? I don't think so.relatd
June 6, 2022
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EA/23 & FH/25 & in passem
Would you say that this shift [in phenotype] provides a non-random direction to evolution or are we still dealing with an essentially random process?
This shift provides a non-random change in the dominant phenotype within a population, not necessarily a change in "direction." That's what I meant when I stated that non-randomness and directionality are not the same thing. Change in phenotype to adapt to a given ecological niche is one of Darwin's greatest observations. The concept has become so commonplace that we forget how significant this observation was. FH @ 25 explains as well as I can the "non-random" aspect of NS. I agree with everything in his statement except use of the phrase "the environment designs" (I don't think the environment designs anything):
[I]interaction between species and their niche environment is the non-random element that leads to adaptive change.
Here's one of my favorite descriptions of NS from theoretical physicist, Paul Davies, which tracks FH's description very closely:
Notice that although variations may be random, [natural] selection is far from random, so that it is not true to say, as is sometimes quipped, that Darwinism attributes the organized complexity of the biosphere to nothing more than random chance.
chuckdarwin
June 6, 2022
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The last few comments point to the flaws. Organisms change at random, but somehow, make a few "useful" changes along the way. The environment is part of the driving force. Driving to where? As in "certain organisms occupy certain niches." So, if the niche/environment changes on a particular day or year or even 10 years, it's not enough time for any organism there to change with it. Again, it appears that the primary driver of evolution is wishful thinking, or "Trust us. That's how it happened." I have no good reason to.relatd
June 6, 2022
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SA @ 38: "The niche environment is an output of several highly randomized variables. So no one can say whether the genomic change that is advantageous for a present environment will remain so for random changes to the niche." Exactly. The so-called directional non-random driver of evolution--the "selecting" capability of "natural selection"--turns out to be the environment, which, upon closer inspection, turns out to be numerous other random variables. Look, I understand why Dawkins and others desperately want to argue that evolution is non-random and that natural selection provides some directionality to evolution that can mimic purposeful design. After all, if Darwin had claimed that everything in biology came about by just a bunch of random events, no-one would have taken it seriously. So there is a critical rhetorical need within the theory (which Darwin skillfully employed) to pretend that there is this thing called "natural selection" somewhere out there "daily and hourly scrutinizing, throughout the world, the slightest variations; rejecting those that are bad, preserving or adding up all that are good..." This natural selection, it is hoped, can rescue evolution from being a purely random crapshoot, and provide directionality, moving the organism inevitably up the backside of Mount Improbable... transforming the proverbial amoeba into the elephant. Unfortunately, on closer inspection, it is randomness all the way down.Eric Anderson
June 6, 2022
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Fred @25: No. The fact that there is change does not make it non-random. "The environment designs, or rather interaction between species and their niche environment is the non-random element that leads to adaptive change." Great, so now think through what causes a particular environment to exist. Hot today, cold tomorrow. One predator this year, but gone the next year. A particular pathogen sweeps through half of the environment, but not the other. A great food source this month, but absent the next. And on and on... And absolutely all of it occurring utterly independently from the needs of the organism (the evolutionary definition of random, by the way), and without any particular directionality in the way the wind blows.Eric Anderson
June 6, 2022
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Jerry @24: "Natural selection leaves behind more offspring with a certain characteristic because the new variation makes is superior in some way." Meaning, of course, that it is more "fit," in evolutionary parlance (though not in rational functional terms). In any event, great, now we have an organism that is more fit. Now, take the next step in the analysis. What makes the particular characteristic more "fit" in that particular case? It isn't natural selection that makes it more fit. Natural selection is not a causal force, so it doesn't do anything. The only reason a particular characteristic can be seen as "fit" in a particular environment is because of the particular characteristics of the environment that, by chance, and wholly unrelated to the needs of the organism, happen to exist at that particular moment in time. Now what happens when the environment changes? The characteristic might not be fit anymore. So far, so good. Under evolutionary theory, we can see that the environment is the determinant of which organisms survive, as Darwin clearly preached.* Modern evolutionists follow this view, talking about "environmental pressure" and similar ideas. So let's now bring it full circle. Given that the environment is the real determinant, not some esoteric "force" of natural selection, we're left to look to the environment for some directionality to evolution. Can we find it? In any long term sense? In any specific sense? It's easy to talk about natural selection and "selection pressure" and "differential survival" and so forth in vague and generic terms. Yet when we start to look at specific instances, it becomes much less clear what substantive content such words actually have. * Note that, as a causal matter, Darwin had it exactly backwards. It is the internal capabilities of the organism that determine an organism's characteristics and its survival. But that is a discussion for another time. Here, we're just drilling down into what this vague term "natural selection" could possibly mean, even under evolutionary theory.Eric Anderson
June 6, 2022
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An automobile? Parts have to have a certain tolerance or they won't work properly. Try fitting a part that looks close a a replacement. If it's off slightly, it will fail. "features needed"? Needed by what? The organism? The environment? Evolution is not directed? You are right. None of that is convincing in the slightest. I tried to accept the evolutionary-materialist story until I realized that the level of complex interaction requires the right "errors" and millions of years or more. If that's the "basic idea" then I remain firmly with Intelligent Design, not random randomness that hits on a solution at some random time but often enough. Or so they say.relatd
June 6, 2022
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That's a poorly-built strawman, SA.Fred Hickson
June 6, 2022
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FH
And mutations can be lethal, yes.
Yes. The overwhelming tendency of random mutation is to degrade genes.
The niche environment decides.
The niche environment is an output of several highly randomized variables. So no one can say whether the genomic change that is advantageous for a present environment will remain so for random changes to the niche. Not only are the mutations potentially lethal, but the niche can be lethal also.Silver Asiatic
June 6, 2022
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relatd
Copy errors? So given enough copy errors, something goes right?
Yes, but the errors can maim or kill the organism first. You have to watch out for that. Because if the species is killed off or damaged by mutations, then it's not going to be able to reproduce. But yes, in just the same way as if you were building an automobile (which is not as complex as a cell), when machine-engineering the parts for the wheel assembly or engine, for example, you don't want precision and corrections and low tolerance for error. Instead, you want as many errors as possible because they will eventually build up and create the new features needed. Since it works very well for nature, creating self-replicating organisms of immense power and complexity through copy-errors, we would use the same process. I mean, that's what we're told to believe. Even in simpler terms, when writing legal or medical documents, it's best to use a randomization program for your words because they'll eventually come up with an intelligible solution - over a few million years or so. They might, that is. Monkeys typing Shakespeare. Over what is more than the age of the universe, good old randomization came up with half of an intelligible sentence. So, that's pretty good. All we'd need is a universe about a million times older than ours and we'd really have something. I haven't found the evolutionary-materialist story convincing yet, but I get the basic idea they're trying to communicate.Silver Asiatic
June 6, 2022
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You do realize that you just agreed with what I said.
I think you should read what I said a little more carefully. Selection acts on phenotypes directly. Genomes (whole genomes) sink or swim in their phenotype vehicles. Selection does not act on DNA sequences.Fred Hickson
June 6, 2022
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@ Silver Asiatic It is not mere conjecture that genomic variation exists within populations. Since genetic sequencing became fast and cheap, it is a demonstrable fact. And mutations can be lethal, yes. Until the consequences of variation are tested by the environment (assuming non-lethality during development) no-one can say whether any genomic change is advantageous or deleterious. The niche environment decides.Fred Hickson
June 6, 2022
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Wrong, Jerry. Selection only acts on phenotypes. Genomes that produce fitter phenotypes make it through into the next generation more often on average as passengers in individual organisms within the population.
You do realize that you just agreed with what I said.jerry
June 6, 2022
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