“Shepherd of the Internet Trolls” — “PZ Myers and the Art of Shameless Dishonesty”

Thanks, Sal. Sure: it's a compendium of articles showing why the New Atheists' claim on "reason" as their brand fails. In short: they don't do it very well, whereas Christianity is at home with reason (and vice versa). It's in ebook form now, with a print version to be announced in about 4-6 weeks. See http://book.truereason.org. And thanks again! Tom TomG

Tom G I’ve been wondering why Sam Harris wasn’t at the Reason Rally in D.C. on March 24. This might help explain it.

Hey! Nice to see you. Feel free to plug your book on this thread. Thanks for visiting. Always nice to have pro-ID authors visit. scordova

Barry, got it, my apologies. However in this case the person is (was) the issue. And again you are right and I am wrong- it is up to you to deal with your trolls the way you see fit. I apologize for feeding them. There's just something about taking their poking stick away from them and serving it to them for lunch that I just find irresistable. I just can't say no. But not again, not here. Thank you for your patience. Joe

Joe, stop name calling. Address issues, not people. Barry Arrington

There is no such thing as abusing an abusive troll... really Joe

a warning to bartax, but not a word to joe despite his abusive posting... really? elpresidente

Umm news, bartax has been a troll from the beginning- it is a spewing troll Joe

Bartax, based on the immediately above, you are beginning to morph into a troll yourself. Please unmorph soon. Sal (Cordova), it is a most interesting development that some new atheists (Sam Harris in this case) are beginning to confront the sort of behaviour I have described as the new species male fishwives. At one time, some women of the lowest social classes were permitted to spout filth and detraction because nothing they said mattered anyway. It was sometimes called "Billingsgate," in honour, I believe, of a large fish market where such women sold their smelly wares. What is odd is to see men who have - apparently - some kind of social position - doing it. At one time, few men would ever be so socially helpless that they could say anything they pleased without recourse. That shows how much society has changed. News

If we ever needed more proof that Ms. Dodgen was a troll then this is is it. Mr. Dodgen has been a UD author for years. My name is Gilbert, not Gilberta. GilDodgen

Only a complete shameless fool would come to Uncommon Descent, attack one of its favorite sons (Gil), and then have a little cry-baby hissy-fit because it got called out for its cowardice. And here is fartmax and his lactose intolerance... Joe

And it is very fitting that fartmax would troll this thread as it is a master of shameless dishonesty... Joe

BTW fartmax, I posted here while Dembski was running this blog. And no one can prevent me from being an IDist any more than someone can stop you from being a lying coward. Joe

With fartmax posting here UD standards are very low or they must want to expose the anti-IDists as the drooling imbeciles they are by allowing some to spew their nonsense here. It is entertaining watching fartmax squirm, lie and spew. maybe that is the purpose behind allowing it here... Joe

Nice projection by fartmax. BTW I don't harrass visitors. I expose asswipes, like fartmax. Joe

fartmax- YOU are the one throwing insults around. I just expose you are the loser you are and will continue to do so until you are no longer posting here. And if anyone wants to see "ill" just read fartmax's posts- full of ill will, insults and childish tantrums- and thney all have one this in common- lack of substance personal attacks. Joe

He finds strong words for Sal Cordova. But reading Cordova's latest article Ken “we suck” Miller wrong again — peer reviewed article obliterates Miller’s claims - which includes a blatant piece of quote-mining in the very title - makes it quite difficult to argue in favor of Sal Cordova... DiEb

Herv- clean up on aisle 13- fartmax really messed itself bigtime. Perhaps UD should adopt the standard of disallowing sock puppets Joe

UD: Bartax is no longer with us Bartax

PZ doesn't care that he is a total ass- and he doesn't care that everyone knows it. Thankfully he is tucked away at some nobody university where he can only harm himself Joe

I've been wondering why Sam Harris wasn't at the Reason Rally in D.C. on March 24. This might help explain it. Also related to the Reason Rally: on one level it was a mix of all the most disturbing signals: mocking, contempt, and dehumanizing of Christians coupled with a strong message that religion should be eliminated. If anyone had the savvy to pull together a movement to accomplish that it could be very bad. The more I watch these shenanigans, though, the less likely I think that's going to happen. Power struggles and infighting will severely limit New Atheist effectiveness unless and until someone figures out how to coalesce them into a united movement. Dawkins isn't the one to do that. Neither are Harris, Myers, or Coyne; not while they're throwing bricks at each other. And in Myers's and Coyne's case especially, not while they're demonstrating themselves to have no more substance on religion-related topics than a third-grader shouting "Nyaah, nyaah" from the edge of the playground. It may be that unity is so foreign to the atheistic mindset that no one will make it happen, at least not in the West. (Whatever unity of atheistic thought there was in Russia, China, and etc., was aided considerably by guns, prisons, and special police.) TomG

A saying over here is, "Myers is a jackass." So it's amusing to see this finally sinking in with even the New Atheists. nullasalus

Blue_Savannah, "If P.Z Myers is against you, you’re on the right track." a saying from long time can be seen here, "El comal le dijo a la olla, mira que tiznado estás", maybe translate "to be sure another's fault is not your own before rebuking them.", mas y menos. sergio sergiomendes

If P.Z Myers is against you, you're on the right track. ;-) Blue_Savannah

In PZ's defense, it's not like Harris is all that better. He just has less of an internet presence, and shuts down his comments section completely. nullasalus

This is hilarious! Here's how PZ says trolls behave, and what should be beyond what academics engage in: 1) Pointless use of invective 2) Extensive use of strawmen 3) Lack of any serious attempt to engage with the actual argument made Isn't that the entirety of PZ's blog? johnnyb

P.S. I suggest you delete this OP. And never mention the L'il Troll and his Band of Merry Toads again. It does nothing to further your cause. Believe me. And I think you know it, Sal. CentralScrutinizer

And another thing, you're never never ever going to convince P.Z. and his band of toads to change their l'il minds. Are you trying to garner respect from them? You'll never get it. They hate you. They always will. Stop giving trolls like P.Z. and his l'il tribe any attention. It's not worth your time. CentralScrutinizer

See, I really don't see why you give P.Z. the time of day. Do you really care what he thinks or says? He's a trollish li'l self-promoter who won't be remember by anyone, including his own kind. Who care? Are you desperate for something to write about? CentralScrutinizer

scordova, the P Z Myers you call, he controls un blog, yes? is good source for evolution knowledge? person point to him as not for I D support. sergio sergiomendes

GilDodgen, "At some point, in my opinion, righteous indignation is called for and justified." could example of righteous indignation statement be made here? must be not curse words or insultos or ofensas, yes? sergio sergiomendes

I propose a new metric: the NQ (Nastiness Quotient). In order to compute an NQ for PZ and Sal, one could extract a random sampling of PZ's Internet posts concerning his comments directed at ID proponents, and extract a random sampling of Sal's Internet posts directed at Darwinists. PZ's NQ would obviously be horrific in comparison to Sal's. (Sal is one of the most modest, unassuming, cordial, and respectful people I have ever had the privilege of being associated with, and he maintains this graciousness even in the face of the most vile and undeserved attacks -- from Darwinists who presumably preach science, objectivity, and tolerance as the highest values.) However, in computing these NQs one must weight them with volume in order to arrive at a statistically significant result. PZ's NQ volume factor is so large that I fear my 64-bit calculator would be incapable of representing the number. My NQ is much higher than Sal's (which is effectively zero). The reason for this is that for 43 years I was deceived by the junk science of Darwinism, and indoctrinated with the nihilistic, soul-destroying philosophy it was designed to justify. At some point, in my opinion, righteous indignation is called for and justified. GilDodgen