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Automation_of_foundry_with_robot

A robot in the Cambrian era?

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Proverbially,  it is said that if paleontologists were to discover a rabbit in Cambrian era fossil strata, that would be an empirical refutation of macro-evolutionary theory.  UD contributor, News, has therefore raised a “but what about . . . ? “ in light of finding “complex non-marine multicellular eukaryotes in Precambrian strata . . .  ” and specifically:

large populations of diverse organic-walled microfossils extracted by acid maceration, complemented by studies using thin sections of phosphatic nodules that yield exceptionally detailed three-dimensional preservation. These assemblages contain multicellular structures, complex-walled cysts, asymmetric organic structures, and dorsiventral, compressed organic thalli, some approaching one millimetre in diameter. They offer direct evidence of eukaryotes living in freshwater aquatic and subaerially exposed habitats during the Proterozoic era.

As a further kicker, we must observe a date:”one billion years.”

The very first response, by Dr REC, was dismissive:

A longer, more gradual history of Eukaryotes and of colonization of land renders Darwinism more doubtful?

Where things get very intersting is with the onward suggestion of a gradual unfolding of life from simple to complex forms.

Therein lieth the rub: there ain’t no “simple” life forms.

We can see that if we start from the undeniable fact that we find complex cells in the Cambrian fossils.

Somehow, though, the full force of this point has not hit home hard enough.

So, let’s rephrase: what if we were to discover a ROBOT in the Cambrian era fossils?

You ask me: y’mean like this lovely but unsettling young lady?

Fig. A: Actroid-DER, developed by KOKORO Inc for customer service, appeared in the 2005 Expo Aichi Japan. The robot responds to commands in Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and English.  (Source: Wiki, under GNU.)

Nah, more like this:

Fig. B: A position-arm robot  (Source: Wiki, KUKA Roboter GmbH public domain)

Or, to get more direct, like this:

Fig. C: The Ribosome in action, showing the tRNAs acting as amino acid taxis and position-arm pick and place units that click successive amino acids onto an emerging protein (Source: Wiki, public domain.)

But, that’s different!

Not really.

A pick-place robot arm with a tool-tip is a digitally programmed device that carries out pre-programmed instructions. The tRNA molecules are loaded with amino acid monomers (usually, there are twenty different varieties) and on the opposite ends they have anti-codons that are key-lock coded to the successive three-letter, 64-state codons in the mRNA tape. That mRNA tape in turn derives from the DNA code in the nucleus, and the incrementally assembled protein is folded and dispatched to the place where it can best be put to work, often using the Golgi apparatus as a cellular post office.

In short, the macro-scale position-arm robot and the DNA-Ribosome, mRNA, enzymes and proteins, tRNA system that makes new proteins, are both step by step digital code controlled mechanical assembly processes.

And, so we must ask a few questions, to clarify our views on origins of life and of its diverse forms, and the empirically based grounds for these views:

(1) What is the only empirically observed source of codes, algorithms, and assembly lines?

(2) Is it credible that such entities can spontaneously self-assemble from a soup of monomers in a warm little electrified pond, or a hot undersea vent, or the like?

(3) On what empirically grounded basis do you draw your conclusions?

(4) What does such imply about the origin of life?

(5) Since, embryogenesis transforms a unicellular organism into an integrated assemblage of tissues, organs and the like in a complex, functionally organised body plan, requiring a considerable further body of DNA, what does the above imply about the mechanism for the origin of major body plans?

(6) What is the observed, evidence that small undirected genetic changes in populations, culled out by differential reproductive success, can be and most likely was  responsible for the origin of the complex functional organisation and of digitally coded, algorithmic information and associated implementing machinery found in major body plans and species, including our own?

(7) In short, is the following excerpt from Darwin’s summing up in Origin, Ch 15, suitably updated, an empirically — observationally — well-warranted conclusion, or is it in large part an inference on imposition of the concept that scientific explanation, must only be “naturalistic”?  Darwin:

It is interesting to contemplate a tangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent upon each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in the largest sense, being Growth with Reproduction; Inheritance which is almost implied by reproduction; Variability from the indirect and direct action of the conditions of life and from use and disuse: a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection, entailing Divergence of Character and the Extinction of less-improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. [Origin, Ch 15.]

Most of all: why do you draw your particular conclusions? END

Comments
I don’t in fact think they are fundamentally different, except in one respect – because humans are intentional designers we can take shortcuts. Who says the designer of evolution isn't an intentional designer? Much less that no shortcuts were taken? Or maybe you're employing a design filter to detect or rule out designs and designers, eh? ;)nullasalus
May 28, 2011
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Mung, 1. I don’t know how advanced the technology of the ribosome is, or if it can even be classified as a technology. Well, it's tough to compare artifacts, period, in a way. Is a pair of wireless headphones more advanced than a digital camera? Still, one metric is 'Can we make something comparable?' And I don't think we can create working ribosomes from scratch yet, so in various ways (if we take it as an artifact) it seems fair to call the tech more advanced. Of course, I'm of the mind that - if you're going to start viewing things in the 'natural' world as artifacts, there's no need to stop. Regard it all as artifact. Who needs nature?nullasalus
May 28, 2011
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I agree, nullasalus. In fact, I'd suggest that human design is moving towards an evolutionary model :) I don't in fact think they are fundamentally different, except in one respect - because humans are intentional designers we can take shortcuts. But that is proving to be a mixed blessing, because those short-cuts also bypass a lot of search space, which is where GAs come in so useful.Elizabeth Liddle
May 28, 2011
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For one thing, the ribosome’s technology is more advanced.
I wouldn't just grant that. 1. I don't know how advanced the technology of the ribosome is, or if it can even be classified as a technology. 2. I don't know how advanced the technology of the robots are. 3. I don't know of any practical way to compare the two in terms of how advanced their technologies are. 4. Is the technology of the ribosome so advanced that it cannot at all be compared with any known human technological achievement? And yet here we are, comparing it ;). Perhaps the robots were not the best choice. Perhaps a closer analogy could be found.Mung
May 28, 2011
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Human artefacts are typically highly brittle, and are only as robust as their weakest component. Except 'human artefacts' are getting better and better on all fronts. And insofar as it does, the technology gap will keep on shrinking. That's part of why saying... "But self-replication with modification, I would argue, is the alternate explanation for what would otherwise look like it was designed by an intelligent agent."... doesn't help much. It's like positing "made in a factory" in opposition to "made by an intelligent agent". Agents can employ factories towards ends. They can also employ self-replication with modification towards ends. (Really, we've already done this on a certain scale with antennas.)nullasalus
May 28, 2011
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Nullasalus: that too. Also, the ribosome is less brittle, both literally and metaphorically. Human artefacts are typically highly brittle, and are only as robust as their weakest component.Elizabeth Liddle
May 28, 2011
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Well, the ribosome is part of a completely self-replicating entity. The others aren't. The ribosome didn't "make itself" alone but the organism that it is a component of was "made" by another almost identical organism, which copied itself in order to produce the one containing the ribosome in question. It is probably true that the only non-self-replicating machines are those designed by the intelligent designers we call people. But self-replication with modification, I would argue, is the alternate explanation for what would otherwise look like it was designed by an intelligent agent. I don't expect you to agree, but it seems to me it's a point that at least needs to be considered :) As I've said elsewhere, I actually agree with IDists that there is a signature that human artefacts share with natural artefacts, and for good reason. I get a bit cross with people who argue that specified complexity is a nonsense. I just don't think it's the signature of what is normally called "intelligent design". I do think it's the signature of life, and that it indicates that either the thing is itself a self-replicator or it was made by a self-replicator. Discuss.Elizabeth Liddle
May 28, 2011
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Mung, I don’t see any enormous difference. For one thing, the ribosome's technology is more advanced.nullasalus
May 28, 2011
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I don't see any enormous difference. The robot didn't make itself, and there's no evidence to suggest that the ribosome did either. And yet there it is, just like the robots.Mung
May 28, 2011
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There is one ENORMOUS difference between your ribosome and the other two robots. And I submit, it's the difference that makes the difference :)Elizabeth Liddle
May 28, 2011
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...a Ratio of Increase so high as to lead to a Struggle for Life, and as a consequence to Natural Selection...
How utterly Malthusian. [ED: Darwin is EXPLICITLY Malthusian in his thought, as can be seen in his introductory remarks. Origin owes a lot to the Rev Darwin built on (Malthus) and to the Rev he was trying to overturn [Paley] . . . these are part of why Darwinist thought is inescapably riddled with worldview and theological issues. The issue of inference to best explanation on a remote, unobserved past of origins is also a source of worldviews concerns, epistemological concerns (as in what is the strength of warrant per inference to best explanation and how do we evaluate "best") and of course the issues in Job 38 apply too. ] But if no such increase and struggle ensues, what is the basis for selection?
(1) What is the only empirically observed source of codes, algorithms, and assembly lines?
1. Samuel F. B. Morse 2. Mu?ammad ibn M?s? al-Khw?rizm? 3. Henry A. FordMung
May 28, 2011
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