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An updated ( but not exhaustive) list of how to detect intelligent design

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How to recognize the signature of (past) intelligent action

https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t2805-how-to-recognize-the-signature-of-past-intelligent-action

Claim: Herbert Spencer:  “Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all.”

How to recognize the signature of (past) intelligent action Herber10

Reply: Contrasting and comparing “intended” versus “accidental” arrangements leads us to the notion of design. We have extensive experience-based knowledge of the kinds of strategies and systems that designing minds devise to solve various kinds of functional problems. We also know a lot about the kinds of phenomena that various natural causes produce. For this reason, we can observe the natural world, and living systems, and make informed inferences based on the unraveled and discovered evidence. 

A physical system is composed of a specific distribution of matter: a machine, a car, or a clock. When we describe it and quantify its size, structure, and motions, and annotate the materials used, that description contains information. When we arrange and distribute materials in a certain way for intended means, we can produce things for specific purposes and call them design. Thus, when we see a physical system and discern the arrangement of its parts having intentional functions, we call it designed.  The question thus is, when we see things in nature with purpose and appear designed, ARE they indeed the product of intentional design? 

How to recognize the signature of (past) intelligent action Leibni10

Leibniz gave a remarkable description 300 years ago, that science would come to confirm only about 70 years ago. He had a remarkably advanced understanding of how biological systems work, without knowing the inner workings of the cell.  Each living cell is full of machines, molecular machines, that operate fully autonomously like robots, but the organelles, organs, organ systems, and last not least, the entire body of a multicellular organism operate as machines, on different levels.

How can random, nonliving matter produce structures of mind-boggling organizational intricacies at the molecular level that leave us in awe,  so sophisticated that our most advanced technology seems pale by comparison? How can a rational, honest person analyze these systems, and say they emerged by chance? These organic structures present us with a degree of complexity that we cannot explain stochastically by unguided means. Everything we know tells us that machines, preprogrammed robotlike production lines, computers, and energy generating turbines, electric circuits, and transistors, are structures of intelligent design. The cooperation and interdependent action of proteins and co-factors in cells is stupendous and depends on very specific controlled and arranged mechanisms, precise allosteric binding sites, and finely-tuned forces. Accidents do not design machines. Intellect does.

We can recognize design and the requirement of an acting mind when we see:

1. Something new created based on no pre-existing physical conditions or state of affairs ( a concept, an idea, a plan, a project, a blueprint)
2. A specific functional state of affairs, based on and dependent on mathematical rules, that depend on specified values ( that are independent, nonconditional, and that have no deeper grounding)
3. A force/cause that secures, upholds, maintains, and stabilizes a state of affairs, avoiding stochastic chaos. Eliminating conditions that change unpredictably from instant to instant or preventing things from uncontrollably popping in and out of existence.
4. Fine-tuning or calibrating something to get the function of a (higher-order) system.
5. Selected specific materials, that have been sorted out, concentrated, and joined at a construction site. 
6. An information storage system ( paper, a computer hard disk, etc.)
7. A language, based on statistics,  semantics, syntax, pragmatics, and apobetics
8. A code system, where meaning is assigned to characters, symbols, words
9. Translation ( the assignment of the meaning of one word in one language to another of another language ) that has the same meaning
10. An information transmission system ( a radio signal, internet, email, post delivery service, etc.)
11. A plan, blueprint, architectural drawing, or scheme for accomplishing a goal, that contains instructional information, directing the making for example of a 3D artifact, 1:1 equivalent to the plan of the blueprint.
12. Conversion ( digital-analog conversion, modulators, amplifiers)
13. Overlapping codes ( where one string of information can have different meanings) 
14. Systems of interconnected software and hardware
15. A library index and fully automated information classification, storage, and retrieval program
16. A software program that directs the making, and governs the function or/and operation of devices with specific functions.
17. Energy turbines
18. To create, execute, or construct something precisely according to an instructional plan or blueprint
19. The specific complex arrangement and joint of elements, parts, or materials to create a machine or a device for specific functions
20. A machine, that is, a piece of equipment with several moving parts that uses power to do a particular type of work that achieves a specific goal
21. Repetition of a variety of complex actions with precision based on methods that obey instructions, governed by rules.
22. Preprogrammed production or assembly lines that employ a series of machines/robots in the right order that are adjusted to work in an interdependent fashion to produce a specific functional (sub) product. 
23. Factories, that operate autonomously in a preprogrammed manner, integrating information that directs functions working in a joint venture together.
24. Objects that exhibit “constrained optimization.” The optimal or best-designed laptop computer is the one that has the best balances and compromise of multiple competing factors. Any human designer knows that good design often means finding a way to meet multiple constraints. Consider airplanes. We want them to be strong, but weight is an issue, so lighter materials must be used. We want to preserve people’s hearing and keep the cabin warm, so soundproofing and insulation are needed, but they add weight. All of this together determines fuel usage, which translates into how far the airplane can fly.
25. Artifacts which use might be employed in different systems (a wheel is used in cars and airplanes)
26. Error monitoring, check, and repair systems, depending on recognizing when something is broken, identifying where exactly the object is broken, to know when and how to repair it (e.g. one has to stop/or put on hold some other ongoing processes; one needs to know lots of other things, one needs to know the whole system, otherwise one creates more damage…) to know how to repair it (to use the right tools, materials, energy, etc, etc, etc ) to make sure that the repair was performed correctly.
27. Defense systems based on data collection and storage to protect a system/house, factory, etc. from invaders, intruders, enemies, killers, and destroyers.
28. Sending specific objects from address A to address B based on the address provided on the object, which informs its specific target destination. 
29. Keeping an object in a specific functional state of affairs as long as possible through regulation, and extending the duration upon which it can perform its task, using monitoring, guaranteeing homeostasis, stability, robustness, and order.
30. Self-replication of a dynamical system that results in the construction of an identical or similar copy of itself. The entire process of self-replication is data-driven and based on a sequence of events that can only be instantiated by understanding and knowing the right sequence of events. There is an interdependence of data and function. The function is performed by machines that are constructed based on the data instructions. (Source: Wikipedia
31. Replacing machines, systems, etc. in a factory before they break down as a preventive measure to guarantee long-lasting functionality and stability of the system/factory as a whole.
32. Recycling, which is the process of converting waste materials into new materials and objects. The recovery of energy from waste materials is often included in this concept. The recyclability of a material depends on its ability to reacquire the properties it had in its original state. ( Source: Wikipedia
33. Instantiating waste management or waste disposal processes that include actions required to manage waste from its inception to its final disposal. This includes the collection, transport, treatment, and disposal of waste, together with monitoring and regulation of the waste management process. ( Source: Wikipedia
34. Electronic circuits are composed of various active functional components, such as resistors, transistors, capacitors, inductors, and diodes, connected by conductive wires through which electric current can flow. The combination of components and wires allows various simple and complex operations to be performed: signals can be amplified, computations can be performed, and data can be moved from one place to another. (Source: Wikipedia
35. Arrangement of materials and elements into details, colors, and forms to produce an object or work of art able to transmit the sense of beauty, and elegance, that pleases the aesthetic senses, especially sight.
36. Instantiating things on the nanoscale. Know-how is required in regard to quantum chemistry techniques, chemical stability, kinetic stability of metastable structures, the consideration of close dimensional tolerances, thermal tolerances, friction, and energy dissipation, the path of implementation, etc. See: Richard Jones: Six challenges for molecular nanotechnology December 18, 2005
37. Objects in nature very similar to human-made things

The (past) action or signature of an intelligent designer in the natural world can be deduced and inferred since :

1. The universe had a beginning and was created apparently out of nothing physical. It can therefore only be the product of a powerful, intelligent mind that willed it, and decided to create it.
2. The universe obeys the laws and rules of mathematics and physics, a specific set of equations, upon which it can exist and operate. That includes Newtonian Gravity of point particles, General Relativity, and Quantum Field Theory. Everything in the universe is part of a mathematical structure. All matter is made up of particles, which have properties such as charge and spin, but these properties are purely mathematical.
3. Our universe remains orderly and predictable over huge periods of time. Atoms are stable because they are charge neutral. If it were not so, they would become ions, and annihilate in a fraction of a second. Our solar system, the trajectory of the earth surrounding the sun, and the moon surrounding the earth, are also stable, and that depends on a myriad of factors, that must be precisely adjusted and finely tuned. 
4. The Laws of physics and constants, the initial conditions of the universe, the expansion rate of the Big bang, atoms and the subatomic particles, the fundamental forces of the universe, stars, galaxies, the Solar System, the earth, the moon, the atmosphere, water, and even biochemistry on a molecular level, and the bonding forces of molecules like Watson-Crick base-pairing are finely tuned in an unimaginably narrow range to permit life.
5. Life uses a limited set of complex macro biomolecules, a universal convention, and unity which is composed of the four basic building blocks of life ( RNA and DNA, amino acids, phospholipids, and carbohydrates). They are of a very specific complex functional composition, that has to be selected and available in great quantity, and concentrated at the building site of cells. 
6. DNA is a molecule that stores assembly information through the specified complex sequence of nucleotides, which directs and instructs a functional sequence of amino acids to make molecular machines, in other words, proteins.
7. Perry Marshall (2015): Ji has identified 13 characteristics of human language. DNA shares 10 of them. Cells edit DNA. They also communicate with each other and literally speak a language he called “cellese,” described as “a self-organizing system of molecules, some of which encode, act as signs for, or trigger, gene-directed cell processes.” This comparison between cell language and human language is not a loosey-goosey analogy; it’s formal and literal.
8.L. Hood (2003): Hubert Yockey, the world’s foremost biophysicist and foremost authority on biological information: “Information, transcription, translation, code, redundancy, synonymous, messenger, editing, and proofreading are all appropriate terms in biology. They take their meaning from information theory (Shannon, 1948) AND ARE NOT SYNONYMS, METAPHORS, OR ANALOGIES.”
9. The ribosome translates the words of the genetic language composed of 64 codon words to the language of proteins, composed of 20 amino acids.
10.Zuckerkandl and Pauling (1965): The organization of various biological forms and their interrelationships, vis-à-vis biochemical and molecular networks, is characterized by the interlinked processes of the flow of information between the information-bearing macromolecular semantides, namely DNA and RNA, and proteins.
11. Cells in our body make use of our DNA library to extract blueprints that contain the instructions to build structures and molecular machines, proteins.
12. DNA stores both, Digital and Analog Information 
13. Pelajar: There is growing evidence that much of the DNA in higher genomes is poly-functional, with the same nucleotide contributing to more than one type of code. DNA is read in terms of reading frames of “three letter words” (codons) for a specific amino acide building block for proteins. There are actually six reading frames possible. A.Abel (2008):  The codon redundancy (“degeneracy”) found in protein-coding regions of mRNA also prescribes Translational Pausing (TP). When coupled with the appropriate interpreters, multiple meanings and functions are programmed into the same sequence of configurable switch settings. This additional layer of prescriptive Information (PI) purposely slows or speeds up the translation-decoding process within the ribosome. 
14. Nicholson (2019): At its core was the idea of the computer, which, by introducing the conceptual distinction between ‘software’ and ‘hardware’, directed the attention of researchers to the nature and coding of the genetic instructions (the software) and to the mechanisms by which these are implemented by the cell’s macromolecular components (the hardware).
15. The gene regulatory network is a fully automated, pre-programmed, ultra-complex gene information extraction and expression orchestration system. 
16. Genetic and epigenetic information ( at least 33 variations of genetic codes, and 49 epigenetic codes ) and at least 5 signaling networks direct the making of complex multicellular organisms, biodiversity, form, and architecture
17. ATP synthase is a molecular energy-generating nano-turbine ( It produces energy in the form of Adenine triphosphate ATP. Once charged, ATP can be “plugged into” a wide variety of molecular machines to perform a wide variety of functions).
18. The ribosome constructs proteins based on the precise instructions from the information stored in the genome. T. Mukai et.al (2018):Accurate protein biosynthesis is an immensely complex process involving more than 100 discrete components that must come together to translate proteins with high speed, efficiency, and fidelity. 
19.M.Piazzi: (2019): Ribosome biogenesis is a highly dynamic process in which transcription of the runes, processing/modification of the runes, association of ribosomal proteins (RPs) to the pre-runes, proper folding of the pre-runes, and transport of the maturing ribosomal subunits to the cytoplasm are all combined. In addition to the ribosomal proteins RPs that represent the structural component of the ribosome, over 200 other non-ribosomal proteins and 75 snoRNAs are required for ribosome biogenesis. 
20. Mathias Grote (2019): Today’s science tells us that our bodies are filled with molecular machinery that orchestrates all sorts of life processes. When we think, microscopic “channels” open and close in our brain cell membranes; when we run, tiny “motors” spin in our muscle cell membranes; and when we see, light operates “molecular switches” in our eyes and nerves. A molecular-mechanical vision of life has become commonplace in both the halls of philosophy and the offices of drug companies, where researchers are developing “proton pump inhibitors” or medicines similar to Prozac.
21. A variety of biological events are performed in a repetitive manner, described in biomechanics, obeying complex biochemical and biomechanical signals. Those include, for example, cell migration, cell motility, traction force generation, protrusion forces, stress transmission, mechanosensing and mechanotransduction, mechanochemical coupling in biomolecular motors, synthesis, sorting, storage, and transport of biomolecules
22. Cells contain high information content that directs and controls integrated metabolic pathways which if altered are inevitably damaged or destroy their function. They also require regulation and are structured in a cascade manner, similar to electronic circuit boards.
23. Living Cells are information-driven factories. They store very complex epigenetic and genetic information through the genetic code, over forty epigenetic languages, translation systems, and signaling networks. These information systems prescribe and instruct the making and operation of cells and multicellular organisms.
24. It may well be that the designer chose to create an “OPTIMUM DESIGN” or a “ROBUST AND ADAPTABLE DESIGN” rather than a “perfect design.” Perhaps some animals or creatures behave exactly the way they do to enhance the ecology in ways that we don’t know about. Perhaps the “apparent” destructive behavior of some animals provides other animals with an advantage in order to maintain balance in nature or even to change the proportions of the animal population.
25. There are a variety of organisms, unrelated to each other, which encounter nearly identical convergent biological systems. This commonness makes little sense in light of evolutionary theory. If evolution is indeed responsible for the diversity of life, one would expect convergence to be extremely rare. Some convergent systems are bat echolocation in bats, oilbirds, and dolphins, cephalopod eye structure, similar to the vertebrate eye, an extraordinary similarity of the visual systems of sand lance (fish) and chameleon (reptile). Both the chameleon and the sand lance move their eyes independent of one another in a jerky manner, rather than in concert. Chameleons share their ballistic tongues with salamanders and sand lace fish.
26.L. DEMEESTER (2004):: Biological cells are preprogrammed to use quality-management techniques used in manufacturing today. The cell invests in defect prevention at various stages of its replication process, using 100% inspection processes, quality assurance procedures, and foolproofing techniques. An example of the cell inspecting each and every part of a product is DNA proofreading. As the DNA gets replicated, the enzyme DNA polymerase adds new nucleotides to the growing DNA strand, limiting the number of errors by removing incorrectly incorporated nucleotides with a proofreading function. Following is an impressive example:  Unbroken DNA conducts electricity, while an error blocks the current. Some repair enzymes exploit this. One pair of enzymes lock onto different parts of a DNA strand. One of them sends an electron down the strand. If the DNA is unbroken, the electron reaches the other enzyme and causes it to detach. I.e. this process scans the region of DNA between them, and if it’s clean, there is no need for repairs. But if there is a break, the electron doesn’t reach the second enzyme. This enzyme then moves along the strand until it reaches the error, and fixes it. This mechanism of repair seems to be present in all living things, from bacteria to man.
27. CRISPR-Cas is an immune system based on data storage and identity check systems. [url=by Marina V. Zaychikova]M. V. Zaychikova (2020)[/url]: CRISPR-Cas systems, widespread in bacteria and archaea, are mainly responsible for adaptive cellular immunity against exogenous DNA (plasmid and phage)
28.D.Akopian (2013): Proper localization of proteins to their correct cellular destinations is essential for sustaining the order and organization in all cells. Roughly 30% of the proteome is initially destined for the eukaryotic endoplasmic reticulum (ER), or the bacterial plasma membrane. Although the precise number of proteins remains to be determined, it is generally recognized that the majority of these proteins are delivered by the Signal Recognition Particle (SRP), a universally conserved protein targeting machine
29.Western Oregeon University: The hypothalamus is involved in the regulation of body temperature, heart rate, blood pressure, and circadian rhythms (which include wake/sleep cycles).
30. As a model of a self-replicating system, it has its counterpart in life where the computer is represented by the instructions contained in the genes, while the construction machines are represented by the cell and its machinery that transcribes, translates, and replicates the information stored in genes.  RNA polymerase transcribes, and the ribosome translates the information stored in DNA and produces a Fidel reproduction of the cell and all the machinery inside of the cell. Once done, the genome is replicated, and handed over to the descendant replicated cell, and the mother cell has produced a daughter cell. 
31.L. DEMEESTER (2004): Singapore Management UniversityThe cell does not even wait until the machine fails, but replaces it long before it has a chance to break down. And second, it completely recycles the machine that is taken out of production. The components derived from this recycling process can be used not only to create other machines of the same type, but also to create different machines if that is what is needed in the “plant.” This way of handling its machines has some clear advantages for the cell. New capacity can be installed quickly to meet current demand. At the same time, there are never idle machines around taking up space or hogging important building blocks. Maintenance is a positive “side effect” of the continuous machine renewal process, thereby guaranteeing the quality of output. Finally, the ability to quickly build new production lines from scratch has allowed the cell to take advantage of a big library of contingency plans in its DNA that allow it to quickly react to a wide range of circumstances.
32.J. A. Solinger (2020): About 70–80% of endocytosed material is recycled back from sorting endosomes to the plasma membrane through different pathways. Defects in recycling lead to a myriad of human diseases such as cancer, arthrogryposis–renal dysfunction–cholestasis syndrome, Bardet–Biedl syndrome or Alzheimer’s disease
33. Proteasomes are protein complexes which degrade unneeded or damaged proteins by proteolysis, a chemical reaction that breaks peptide bonds. Enzymes that help such reactions are called proteases. ( Source: WikipediaG. Premananda (2013): The disposal of protein “trash” in the cell is the job of a complex machine called the proteasome.  What could be more low than trash collection?  Here also, sophisticated mechanisms work together. Two different mechanisms are required to determine which targets to destroy.” The “recognition tag” and “initiator tag.” Both mechanisms have to be aligned properly to enter the machine’s disposal barrel.  “The proteasome can recognize different plugs1, but each one has to have the correct specific arrangement of prongs.
34.S. Balaji (2004): An electronic circuit has been designed to mimic glycolysis, the Citric Acid (TCA) cycle and the electron transport chain. Enzymes play a vital role in metabolic pathways; similarly transistors play a vital role in electronic circuits; the characteristics of enzymes in comparison with those of transistors suggests that the properties are analagous.
35.M.Larkin (2018): The animal kingdom is full of beauty. From their vibrant feathers to majestic fur coats, there’s no denying that some animals are just prettier than us humans.
36.David Goodsell (1996): Dozens of enzymes are needed to make the DNA bases cytosine and thymine from their component atoms. The first step is a “condensation” reaction, connecting two short molecules to form one longer chain, performed by aspartate carbamoyltransferase. The entire protein complex is composed of over 40,000 atoms, each of which plays a vital role. The handful of atoms that actually perform the chemical reaction are the central players. But they are not the only important atoms within the enzyme–every atom plays a supporting pan. The atoms lining the surfaces between subunits are chosen to complement one another exactly, to orchestrate the shifting regulatory motions. The atoms covering the surface are carefully picked to interact optimally with water, ensuring that the enzyme doesn’t form a pasty aggregate, but remains an individual, floating factory. And the thousands of interior atoms are chosen to fit like a jigsaw puzzle, interlocking into a sturdy framework. Aspartate carbamoyltransferase is fully as complex as any fine automobile in our familiar world.
37. R. Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker, p. 1 “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” F. Crick, What Mad Pursuit,1988, p 138. “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved.” Richard Morris, The Fate of the Universe, 1982, 155.”It is almost as though the universe had been consciously designed.”

Comments
Martin_r: but it is not a wonder to find a transitional fossil, right ? As Alan Fox said: all fossils are transitional between what came before and what came after along a particular line of development. There is no transitional fossil between a duck and a human although they do have a common ancestor. I cannot believe, after decades of trying to explain this, some people still don't understand. They say they've read all the books but clearly they didn't grasp any of what was said. Incredible. Unless, perhaps, they don't want to understand. Maybe they are only interested in taking down an idea they find a threat to their beliefs. That would make sense; you can't give an inch 'cause you might lose the whole shebang. Guess what guys? Those gaps are getting smaller all the time.JVL
November 2, 2022
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...but it is not a wonder to find a transitional fossil, right ?
Well, all fossils are transitional if you accept the idea of common descent rather than special creation, as I do. Here's a definition from Berkeley University's Understanding Evolution website:
A fossil that shows an intermediate state between an ancestral trait and that of its later descendants is said to bear a transitional feature. The fossil record includes many examples of transitional features, providing an abundance of evidence for evolutionary change over time.
My iconic example of a transitional fossil is Ardipithecus ramidus. They are, in my view, a plausible candidate for being the chronospecies leading to Homo sapiens.Alan Fox
November 2, 2022
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SG, you have failed to substantiate accusations of irrational, failed arguments in general. I have answered for record https://uncommondescent.com/off-topic/what-must-we-do-when-the-foundations-are-being-destroyed/#comment-769169 KFkairosfocus
November 2, 2022
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JVL, Alan Fox
it’s a wonder land fossils are found at all.
but it is not a wonder to find a transitional fossil, right ?martin_r
November 2, 2022
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Sir Giles @15 to see a Darwinist calling something absurd makes ME laugh :))))) So you can't show me any design failures ?martin_r
November 2, 2022
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Martin: what makes you so laugh ? I hate talking to people like you, but i am just curious …
The fact that anyone would make a statement like you did is hilarious. A 1st year biology student would understand the absurdity of your comment.Sir Giles
November 1, 2022
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@13
We don’t know how exactly a mind might act in the world to cause change. Your mind, mediated by your brain, sends signals to your arm, hand, and fingers, and writes a text through the keyboard of the computer I sit here typing. I cannot explain to you how exactly this process functions, but we know, it happens. Consciousness can interact with the physical world and cause change. But how exactly that happens, we don’t know. Why then should we expect to know how God created the universe? The theory of intelligent design proposes an intelligent mental cause as the origin of the physical world. Nothing else.
This makes it sound as if intelligent design presupposes mind-body dualism. If there's no such thing as "consciousness" as a separate entity that somehow affects physical matter, then it's even less plausible to imagine that God could affect reality by a sheer act of His will. I will grant, however, that the two ideas are deeply connected, historically as well as logically. For Rene Descartes, we are created in the image of God not just by virtue of our reason but also by virtue of our will: when we will, we affect the causal nexus of the world (including our brains and bodies) just as God did when He created the world ex nihilo and sustains it from instant to instant through His will, understanding, and love.PyrrhoManiac1
November 1, 2022
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Alan Fox:What's the Mechanism of Intelligent Design? https://reasonandscience.catsboard.com/t1794-how-exactly-did-god-create-the-universe-and-the-world-what-process-was-involved An intelligent designer creates by actualizing potential power at his disposition, information input ( words ), wisdom, and will. But how exactly does this work? We don't know how exactly a mind might act in the world to cause change. Your mind, mediated by your brain, sends signals to your arm, hand, and fingers, and writes a text through the keyboard of the computer I sit here typing. I cannot explain to you how exactly this process functions, but we know, it happens. Consciousness can interact with the physical world and cause change. But how exactly that happens, we don't know. Why then should we expect to know how God created the universe? The theory of intelligent design proposes an intelligent mental cause as the origin of the physical world. Nothing else. In genesis it says God spoke and things came into existence. God is a potent cause with power ( energy ) and his spoken word indicates information. Because we do not understand and in a detailled manner how he created the physical universe, and life, does not mean God does not understand or can't. Mystery to us is not mystery to God, but we do know that God is not limited to His spiritual realm, as he shown with his becoming of flesh in Jesus Christ. Looking at the account of Genesis 1:1 for just a brief moment, the words in that first verse are quite remarkable. They are indicative of the incredible mind of God. God says in that first verse everything that could have been said about creation and He says it in such few terms. The statement is precise and concise almost beyond human composition. A well-known scientist named Herbert Spencer died in 1903. He discovered that all reality, all reality, all that exists in the universe can be contained in five categories...time, force, action, space and matter. Herbert Spencer said everything that exists, exists in one of those categories...time, force, action, space and matter. Now think about that. Time, force, action, space and matter. That is a logical sequence. And then with that in your mind, listen to Genesis 1:1. "In the beginning," that's time..."God," that's force, "created," that's action, "the heavens," that's space, "and the earth," that's matter. Everything that could be said about everything that exists is said in that first verse. Now either you believe that or you don't. You either believe that that verse is accurate and God is the force or you believe that God is not the force that created everything. And then you're left with chance or randomness or coincidence. http://theoryofid.blogspot.com.br/ W.L.Craig : First, in order to recognize an explanation as the best, one needn't have an explanation of the explanation. This is an elementary point concerning inference to the best explanation as practiced in the philosophy of science. If archaeologists digging in the earth were to discover things looking like arrowheads and hatchet heads and pottery shards, they would be justified in inferring that these artifacts are not the chance result of sedimentation and metamorphosis, but products of some unknown group of people, even though they had no explanation of who these people were or where they came from. Similarly, if astronauts were to come upon a pile of machinery on the backside of the moon, they would be justified in inferring that it was the product of intelligent, extra-terrestrial agents, even if they had no idea whatsoever who these extra-terrestrial agents were or how they got there. In order to recognize an explanation as the best, one needn't be able to explain the explanation. In fact, so requiring would lead to an infinite regress of explanations, so that nothing could ever be explained and science would be destroyed. So in the case at hand, in order to recognize that intelligent design is the best explanation of the appearance of design in the universe, one needn't be able to explain the designer. The best explanation of the origin and life and biodiversity is: intelligence. Conscious activity. The deliberate choice of a rational agent. Indeed, we have abundant experience in the present of intelligent agents generating specified information. Our experience of the causal powers of intelligent agents -- of "conscious activity" as "a cause now in operation"-- provides a basis for making inferences about the best explanation of the origin of biological organisms in the past. In other words, our experience of the cause-and-effect structure of the world -- specifically the cause known to produce large amounts of specified information in the present -- provides a basis for understanding what likely caused large increases in specified information in living systems in the past. It is precisely my reliance on such experience that makes possible an understanding of the type of causes at work in the history of life. Ann Gauger : It's still worth considering how a mind might act in the world to cause change. The answer is we don't know. I sit here typing. My mind, mediated by my brain, is putting words into a computer program (designed by other minds, by the way), using my fingers to type. But how does it happen, really? Where does the impulse to press one key instead of another come from? And how do these words, products of my mind, communicate to others through their computer screens? We can't really say how our own minds work to interact with the world, yet we know they do. It is our universal, repeated, personal experience that shows us that our consciousness interacts with our bodies to produce information, but exactly how it works is not known. So why should we expect to know how the agent(s) responsible for the design of life or the universe may have worked? The theory of intelligent design does not propose a mechanism (a strictly or necessarily materialistic cause) for the origin of biological information. Rather, it proposes an intelligent or mental cause. In so doing, it does exactly what we want a good historical scientific theory to do. It proposes a cause that is known from our uniform and repeated experience (to borrow a phrase) to have the power to produce the effect in question, which in this case, is functional information in living systems.Otangelo
November 1, 2022
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First of all: what percentage of individuals do you think got fossilised? Probably a small percentage.
Indeed. There's a whole biological industry evolved in the disposal and recycling of corpses. Hyenas, vultures, flies and ants, it's a wonder land fossils are found at all.Alan Fox
November 1, 2022
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Martin_r: you don’t see any design failures in fossilized skeletons … do you believe that perfectly designed skeletons evolved at the first attempt or how should i imagine skeleton/joints evolution ? What a strange question. First of all: what percentage of individuals do you think got fossilised? Probably a small percentage. Which of those fossils have we found? Just a portion. IF there was an individual that had really bad joints or other skeletal problems would you assume that they had generated enough offspring to get recorded in the fossil record? I think you haven't really thought this through. Clearly the fossil record is going to favour successful and numerous variations. So, what's the surprise?JVL
November 1, 2022
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...a book about Intelligent Design.
I'd be interested in such a book. Does one exist that sets out how "Intelligent Design" theory works? Recommendations please. Anyone can answer.Alan Fox
November 1, 2022
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"... upends what we know..." Get this man a book about Intelligent Design.relatd
November 1, 2022
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as to my previous post @6 let me continue with this, i found the following mainstream article:
How did Littlefoot’s Apatosaurus family and other massive sauropod dinosaurs carry their colossal weight on their feet? The largest like Dreadnoughtus and Argentinosaurus are estimated to have grown to 30 or 40 metres in length and weighed in at anywhere between 50-100 tonnes. The biomechanics of lugging all that weight around on land is no mean feat and palaeontologists have been scratching their heads about it for years. In fact, it has led many palaeontologists in the past to suggest that the only way sauropods could have carried their own weight around is if they were semi-aquatic animals with their weight supported by water. This theory was disproved in the mid-20th century by the discovery of fossilised sauropod tracks that were laid down on prehistoric land. https://cosmosmagazine.com/history/sauropod-feet-3d-model/
Palaeontologists have been scratching their heads ? :))))))) I as an engineer, I can see why :)))))))))))))) Palaeontologists, these naive romantics, natural science graduates who never made anything ... they infested the whole world with their crazy absurd theories and ideas ... Darwinism is a fake news....martin_r
November 1, 2022
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AlanClue @3 Sir Giles @4 i as an engineer i was also interested to learn, how a beak evolved (there are also joints) So i googled a little, and i found another "other than previously thought"-article :)))))) Darwinists should register trademark: "Other than previous thought" :))))) Moreover, this discovery suggests, that similar beaks evolved multiple times independently :)))))))))) This is insane ....
Published 2020: A new fossil discovered on the ever-surprising island of Madagascar suggests ancient Mesozoic bird beaks and faces were more diverse and evolved differently than previously thought, scientists report in the journal Nature. Long and deep, the beak resembles that of modern crown birds such as toucans. It belongs to a previously unknown species named Falcatakely forsterae, referring to its sickle shape, from the late Cretaceous epoch around 70 to 68 million years ago. Although it appears quite unremarkable on the surface, the researchers say, a careful reconstruction revealed the bone structure is unlike those of any dinosaur – bird or otherwise. Its facial anatomy bears resemblance to modern birds but its cranium and upper jaw are similar to that of flightless theropods. The discovery upends what we know about bird evolution , as current species such as toucans and hornbills seem to have independently evolved similarly shaped beaks tens of millions of years later, according to lead author Patrick O’Connor from Ohio University, US. https://cosmosmagazine.com/history/theres-more-than-one-way-to-grow-a-beak/#:~:text=A%20new%20fossil%20discovered%20on,crown%20birds%20such%20as%20toucans.
martin_r
November 1, 2022
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AlanClue @3 Sir Giles @4 what makes you so laugh ? I hate talking to people like you, but i am just curious ... I as an engineer would like to see, how e.g. skeleton with all those joints evolved ... because, when you look at fossil record, you only see perfectly evolved joints and skeletons ... you don't see any design failures in fossilized skeletons ... do you believe that perfectly designed skeletons evolved at the first attempt or how should i imagine skeleton/joints evolution ? I am not sure you realize it, but skeleton and joints and bones in general have to withstand lots of stress ... the bones/joints/skeletons have to have a very specific material properties and shapes/dimensions in order to withstand static and dynamic stress especially in case of dinosaurs (species weighting tens of tons). Sir Giles, do you have any idea what i am talking about ? Where is the evolution of dinosaur skeletons ? In fossil record i can only see perfectly/fully developed dinosaur skeletons ... ( where in the fossil record is the evolution of any skeleton? )martin_r
November 1, 2022
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AC at 3, There is nothing vague about it. Engineers make things with multiple parts that work as designed. The question is, can blind, unguided chance do the same? A single, detailed example would suffice.relatd
November 1, 2022
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Martin: in fossil record you only see perfectly designed, perfectly working species, YOU NEVER SEE “FAILED DESIGN” ATTEMPTS … every species in fossil record is fully developed …
Thank you for making me laugh. I needed this.Sir Giles
November 1, 2022
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@Martin_r:
in fossil record you only see perfectly designed, perfectly working species
What do you mean by "perfect" or "fully developed"? As an engineer I associate perfect design with a design that works as specified, took a minimum amount of resources to develop. But I don't think that's what you mean.AndyClue
November 1, 2022
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all those points, nice summary ... i as an engineer can only agree with those ... but in general, it is like casting pearls to swine (especially on this forum) But let me make it very simple for all Darwinists, biologists, archeologists, paleontologists, Seversky, Chuck, JVL, Alan and company .... Forget about all those points above ... You guys have to give us any example, where multiple parts work together in concern for a purpose and this system wasn't engineered ... So simple ... go out, and give us 1 example ...martin_r
November 1, 2022
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when we look at any species, we engineers have WAY MORE proofs of design than biologists ever had for evolution ... It makes no sense to debate species design with some biologist (natural science graduate) who never made anything ... it is a time waste ... moreover, these guys (biologists) they never listen to what engineers say ... Biologists have they own fantasy world where ANYTHING is possible, where the most complex engineering challenges are easily solved .... BUT NO BIOLOGIST CAN WALK US ENGINEERS THROUGH HOW THIS WAS DONE :))))))) Moreover, these complex engineering challenges are solved over and over and over again ... and always at the first attempt ... in fossil record you only see perfectly designed, perfectly working species, YOU NEVER SEE "FAILED DESIGN" ATTEMPTS ... every species in fossil record is fully developed ... Biologists have no clue how species emerged, but they are 100% sure, that no engineer was involved :)))))) Biologists can't reproduce the simplest features of living things, but they are 100% sure that no engineer was involved and attacking creationist-engineers and calling us names, claiming that we are the stupid ones :))))))) We are the stupid ones ? Really ? :)))))))martin_r
November 1, 2022
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