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At Reasons.org: “I Think, Therefore It Must Be True,” Part 1: The Science of Belief

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Steven Willing writes:

Late in life, atheist philosopher Bertrand Russell received this challenge: if, after death, he found himself face to face with God, what would he say? Russell replied, “I probably would ask, ‘Sir, why did you not give me better evidence?’”¹

Theists contend that though evidence for God is both present and sufficient, bias can fog even brilliant minds like Russell’s. It’s possible that bias could explain Russell’s atheism, but is the accusation of bias merely an ad hominem counter argument? We often assume that human beliefs arise from the application of reason to facts and experience; that we are, in effect, Homo rationalis (rational man). If Russell were objectively rational after considering all the evidence, then his defense is valid. His unbelief would signify failure on God’s part.

“I Think, Therefore It Must Be True,” Part 1: The Science of Belief
Reasons.org

Homo rationalis is widely embraced and resonates with our self-perception. We always think our own beliefs are based on facts, reason, and experience.

Social scientists in the 1970s broadly accepted two ideas about human nature. First, people are generally rational, and their thinking is normally sound. Second, emotions such as fear, affection, and hatred explain most of the occasions on which people depart from rationality.²

However, the Christian Scriptures reject the doctrine of Homo rationalis, instead predicting that people would refuse to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence. In a parable recorded in Luke 16, Jesus says, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.” And in Romans 1:21, Paul writes, “Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”

In recent decades, researchers from a range of disciplines have investigated the nature of human belief. The results of this research enable us to test which is more correct, Homo rationalis or the biblical perspective.

Finding #1: Relying on Heuristics

Humans routinely sift through mountains of information to make even simple decisions. Ideally, a person one would take accurate, complete data and apply reason to reach a logical and correct conclusion. Reality is not so cooperative; we often lack both time and desire for exhaustive analysis, even if perfect information were available. Instead, we make the best possible decisions based on imperfect, incomplete data.

Heuristics are those mental shortcuts people use for deciding as efficiently as possible given the information on hand. We all use them, several times a day. Heuristics are quite helpful, actually. If you encounter a shadowy figure in a dark alley with something shaped like a gun in his hand, the “representativeness” heuristic would recommend avoidance. Logic would be useless until you determined beyond all doubt that (1) yes, it was a gun, and (2) the bearer had malicious intent—which could be too late.

Unfortunately, heuristics are often wrong and used as a substitute for thoughtful reflection. In his book Thinking Fast and Slow, renowned psychologist Daniel Kahneman offers a comprehensive portrayal of how our minds work and how an expanding catalog of cognitive biases and faulty heuristics routinely and predictably lead us astray. Heuristics are automatic, quick, and effortless. Kahneman labels this “System 1” thinking. Thoughtful reflection (“System 2” thinking) yields better decisions at the cost of time and effort. What Kahneman and his collaborators found was that our minds are naturally lazy so we rely on System 1 as much as possible: “System 1 is gullible and biased to believe, System 2 is in charge of doubting and unbelieving, but System 2 is sometimes busy, and often lazy.”³

Cognitive biases are tendencies deeply embedded in our subconscious that lead us to err in predictable ways. Almost two hundred have been described in the literature. Many serve to enhance our own self-image or minimize emotional tension. For example, confirmation bias is the tendency to assign greater significance to evidence that supports our preexisting opinion. Heuristics and biases are closely intertwined. One way to understand the connection is that heuristics represent a shortcut to decision making, but are neutral regarding outcome. Biases push those decisions in certain (somewhat) predictable directions. Having invested a lifetime researching heuristics and biases, Kahneman concluded that “the human mind is not bound to reality.”4

Finding #2: Emotional Influences

It would be a sorry state of affairs if we regarded tragedy and suffering with cold indifference. But to what extent do emotions determine our beliefs? Is it merely an occasional exception or do emotions undermine the validity of Homo rationalis? In recent decades, a clear picture has emerged. It began with the observation that patients with specific brain injuries lost all capacity for emotion. The surprising consequence, though, was that such patients also lost the ability to make decisions. They could analyze a problem all day long without ever forming a conclusion. Dr. Antoine Bechara summarized the outcome of this research in 2004: 5

The studies of decision-making in neurological patients who can no longer process emotional information normally suggest that people make judgments not only by evaluating the consequences and their probability of occurring, but also and even sometimes primarily at a gut or emotional level. (emphasis added)

Now, this is far from saying that every decision is purely or primarily emotional nor that emotions inevitably lead to flawed conclusions. But when it comes to objective analysis or honest truth-seeking, emotions may not merely impede our progress; they can propel us right off the cliff. Consider the emotional fervor over certain political, social, religious, and even scientific issues. It is easy to believe the issues inflame our passion; more often it is our passions that inflame the issue. Despite the evidence, few will admit to thinking emotionally rather than logically. Most likely we don’t even know we’re doing it.

In 2015, Jennifer Lerner of Harvard University reviewed 35 years of research on the role of emotions in judgment and decision making.6

The research reveals that emotions constitute potent, pervasive, predictable, sometimes harmful and sometimes beneficial drivers of decision making. Across different domains, important regularities appear in the mechanisms through which emotions influence judgments and choices.

Finding #3: Social influences

If Homo rationalis existed, then we could completely trust expert opinions. But there are two obvious problems. First, experts often disagree. Second, recent history shows that experts sometimes fail spectacularly. The bandwagon effect inclines people to conform their opinions to the perceived majority position. This may occur either to enhance one’s own conformity and social acceptance, or because one sincerely (perhaps naively) trusts the wisdom of the majority.

When formulating an opinion on a complex subject, rarely do people rely on their own analysis. For example, on initial consideration, Professor B may consider Professor A’s opinion. The opinion of Professor A will be treated as additional data, sometimes prompting Professor B to reach the opposite conclusion from what he might have reached independently. Professor C then comes along and, rather than seeing disagreement between Professors A and B, she sees unanimity. If she trusts her colleagues, the inclination toward agreement becomes ever greater. This is the mechanism by which information cascades develop. In an information cascade, the early deciders have a disproportionate impact over equally qualified experts who arrive later. When a cascade has occurred, the majority viewpoint of 100 experts may be completely opposite to the opinion of the same 100 experts analyzing the data independently, blinded to the opinions of their colleagues.

Finding #4: Intelligence and Religiosity

There is no evidence that more intelligent or better educated individuals transcend their own emotions and biases or are less susceptible to peer pressure. In Kahneman’s collaborative research, it didn’t matter whether the subjects were average high school students or Ivy League undergrads. Highly intelligent and educated people are more confident,7 making them less likely to doubt their opinions or change their minds. Rather than pursuing truth wherever it may be found, smarter people channel their energy toward arguing and reinforcing their preexisting opinions.8

Belief Formation Research Supports Scripture

While Bertrand Russell, and many others, may attribute unbelief to lack of evidence, the Bible declares that belief is a choice. Research on human decision making has demonstrated that we are heavily influenced by nonrational factors that can lead to faulty decisions and incorrect belief (or unbelief). It seems the Bible’s view is well supported. To paraphrase Solzhenitsyn, the dividing line between fact and fancy cuts through the mind of every person, believer and skeptic alike.

Reasons.org

The conclusions of this article indicate the importance of continuing to strive to evaluate the available evidence rationally and objectively.

Comments
PS, I disagree regarding roots of ethics and law. Here is part of why:
, On the Republic, Bk 3: {22.} [33] L . . . True law is right reason in agreement with [--> our morally governed] nature , it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions. And it does not lay its commands or prohibitions upon good men in vain, though neither have any effect on the wicked. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to attempt to repeal any part of it [--> as universally binding core of law], and it is impossible to abolish it entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people [--> as binding, universal, coeval with our humanity], and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. [--> sound conscience- guided reason will point out the core] And there will not be different laws at Rome and at Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is, God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst penalties, even if he escapes what is commonly considered punishment. . . . – Marcus Tullius Cicero, c. 55 - 54 BC
kairosfocus
November 4, 2022
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PM1, for cause, I am a believer in taking people at their words, in historic context, letting that inductively shape and constrain the broad lines of any synthetic view we form. In the Laws, Bk X, it is quite clear that Plato was targeting rather cynical materialistic sophists and their influences on the young of Athens, likely in the context of the Peloponnesian war, finally lost a generation before he wrote as a relatively old man. He describes them as attributing root causal factors to "fire and water, and earth and air, [that] all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only." This is not a Darwin-Wallace evolutionary scheme, nor is it scientific, but it is a philosophical frame that is materialistic and unfolding by time, chance and necessity seen as defining all of reality. Where, unfolding is the root meaning of evolution so it is an evolutionary and materialistic view. Somewhere in there of course lurks Alcibiades. He offers no detailed summary of mechanisms of how things "come" from such, but he implies some dynamic, non intelligent process, explicitly locking out art, techne, and he is mainly interested in the onward unfolding into radical relativism, factions and nihilistic will to power; but in countering will make the first cosmological design inference on record. He says these teachers reduce justice and law to in effect social imposition, going on to declare "that the highest right is might" -- the nihilist credo. He points to resulting ruthless, lawless and incompetent factions (ghosts of the Sicilian expedition all the way to the final debacle at Aegospotami would doubtless agree). The key point here is, when a world vision has no root level is that can bear the weight of ought, there is an historically demonstrated road open to this sort of lawless domineering and resulting chaos. As for the is-ought gap, I suggest this is one of the absolute core all-time issues of philosophy and is closely related to the issue of the one and the many. I do not agree with key aspects of this short discussion but it is a start. KFkairosfocus
November 4, 2022
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@53
VL, I continued the quote, giving wayback machine. You will see it only gets worse. Nor is Provine an isolated case, Plato was already highlighting the problem 2360 years ago. The root is the IS-OUGHT gap, and the second issue is undermining the credibility of reason, knowledge, mind.
There's no way that Plato could have been talking about evolutionary theory, since it didn't exist in ancient Greece. He does allude to the influence of the ancient Greek atomists (though never mentions them by name, which is kind of interesting in itself), and he does suggest that ancient Greek materialism was a threat to the public good. But his arguments are really hard to decipher, and I won't want to make too much rest on them. This whole "is-ought gap" is itself really unclear: like, what is the gap supposed to be, even? One influential source is Hume, who writes:
In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remark'd, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary way of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when of a sudden I am surpriz'd to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, Is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not. This change is imperceptible; but is, however, of the last consequence. For as this ought, or ought not, expresses some new relation or affirmation, 'tis necessary that it shou'd be observ'd and explain'd; and at the same time that a reason shou'd be given, for what seems altogether inconceivable, how this new relation can be a deduction from others, which are entirely different from it. (Treatise of Human Nature 3.1.2)
This "deduction from others" is the decisive point. His point is that there is no deductively valid argument that contains only descriptive claims in all the premises and a prescriptive claim in the conclusion, nor are the rules of deductive inference sufficient to explain the insertion of a prescriptive claim in the premises arbitrarily. Hume is, I think, entirely correct about this. But what follows from this? Not much, I think! For all that Hume is committed to is that there's a logical fallacy in a certain kind of deductive argument that's supposed to generate normative conclusions. Nothing in that argument entails that we cannot, for example, explain the origins of ethics from other, older kinds of primate social behavior. Now, it's quite true that even if we had a good explanation of the origins of ethics, that by itself would not allow us to settle any questions about how we ought to behave, or answer questions of ethics. It couldn't, because of the crucial difference between justification and explanation. No explanation of the origins of morality could function as a criterion of moral goodness or rightness.PyrrhoManiac1
November 4, 2022
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KF, I know lots of people who do not believe in ontological objectivity (nihilism in the first sense) that do not at all feel "despair, death wish, desperate sensualism, impulses to destroy whatever angers one" flowing from that. The second is not a necessary correlate of the first.Viola Lee
November 3, 2022
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@70
volitional, rational inference; freely chosen principles guided inference on intersection of meanings
I'm no expert -- just a random person on the internet -- but I'm pretty sure that David Chalmers would say that even zombies can do all that, even though they lack qualia.PyrrhoManiac1
November 3, 2022
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VL, it seems to me Provine expresses and credits to Darwin's legacy, various forms and aspects of nihilism. I should add, evisceration of meaning, responsible rational freedom and knowledge undermine credibility of mind across the board. Despair, death wish, desperate sensualism, impulses to destroy whatever angers one etc flow from it. Nero reminds that a sort of existential numbness leads to desperate thrill seeking, e.g. his reported going around at night as a common robber. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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PM1, I would note that in effect a smoothly varying pulse rate signal is actually an analogue signal, here, roughly inputs/outputs to/from a relaxation oscillator, but that is just a note. Digital means discrete state, not level. I point to consciousness as meaning based awareness is involved in volitional, rational inference; freely chosen principles guided inference on intersection of meanings is not to be equated to dynamic-stochastic processing of signals as cause-effect chains, computational signal processing. And, the meaningful content and the programming of neural networks or other styles of computational signal processing have to be adequately explained. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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"So my current impression is that “Intelligent Design” has failed:" AF, Then why are you obsessed with ID? It appears you spend most of your waking hours here opposing something that's already dead. Why do you continue wasting everyone's time? Andrewasauber
November 3, 2022
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KF quotesWikipedia about nihilism. The quote mixes two different meanings of the word nihilism. 1. One meaning, which Provine states, is a philosophical view that rejects “objective truth, knowledge, morality, values, or meaning.” We have discussed, somewhat interminably, what objective might mean here, but I think the meaning here is ontologically objective. 2. The second meaning mentioned is this: “Other prominent positions within nihilism include the rejection of all normative and ethical views (§ Moral nihilism), the rejection of all social and political institutions (§ Political nihilism), the stance that no knowledge can or does exist (§ Epistemological nihilism).” This is different. Just because one rejects ontologically objective meaning, values, etc does not mean one rejects all ideas about the existence and value of meaning, morals, society, knowledge, etc. All those things can be grounded in human experience without any need to reference ontological objectivity Your quote says, “The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence or arbitrariness of human principles and social institutions.” That is definitely not a necessary consequence of rejecting ontological objective meaning et al.Viola Lee
November 3, 2022
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AF, you have been making a series of attacking arguments for months.
Well, I did initially come on this last visit to point out to Upright Biped that his semiotic argument had a few holes in it. He seems to have withdrawn from commenting and, unfortunately, I have continued to post comments as the mood takes me and time permits. The fact is that "Intelligent Design" has declined into obscurity. It was founded in an attempt to circumvent US laws on church/state separation, at which it has proved singularly unsuccessful. Harrisburg should have been the end of it. But, now the Supreme Court has been stacked with religious reactionaries, the church/state separation laws are being ignored. Another nail in ID's coffin. So my current impression is that "Intelligent Design" has failed: failed to achieve the level being a genuinely scientific approach. I've asked several times for some evidence that ID actually has some scientific merit, a genuine alternative to evolutionary theory. The silence is deafening.Alan Fox
November 3, 2022
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@64
Weighted sum gates are powerful and chaining allows for very interesting properties but these are fundamentally GIGO limited computation on a dynamic-stochastic substrate. Analogue or digital signal processing does not assign meaning, insight, intentionality, reference, logical inference in accord with sound principles, weighted support, warrant, knowledge.
We need to make a few additional distinctions here. Firstly, we need to distinguish consciousness from cognition. Consciousness in the sense of awareness, of being sentient, is different from cognition, in the sense of having thoughts or mental contents. (If these weren't distinct there would be no sense to the idea of "unconscious thoughts".) Computational neuroscience does not, generally speaking, try to be a theory of consciousness. It is a theory of cognition: of perception, inference, decision, and action. More specifically, it is a theory of how the brain contributes to perception, inference, decision, and action. The basic idea is that one of the main things that brains do is perform computations. (This is not all that brains do, of course!) But even if that's right (and I think the evidence is overwhelming that it is), that doesn't solve the GIGO problem: a program can, of course, transform meaningless strings into other meaningless strings, as long as it does so in accord with rules. And computational neuroscientists know this perfectly well. So the claim is not that neural computations are sufficient for cognition but only that there are necessary. They do not, by themselves, solve the problem of content. (For a recent attempt at a solution to the problem of content from a neuroscientific perspective, see "Situated Neural Representations" by Piccinini, 2022.) interestingly, Piccinini thinks that neural computations are neither digital nor analog but sui generis. His main reason is that neural computations consist of rates of spike trains, which are neither as discrete as digital computations nor as continuous as analog computations. Needless to say, even if something like computational neuroscience were basically right about the role of brains in cognition, it wouldn't solve the problem of consciousness -- not even if one dismisses the hard problem.PyrrhoManiac1
November 3, 2022
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AF, you have been making a series of attacking arguments for months. They fail, one by one. We can notice that on the current case you cannot show misquotation, twisting of meaning by out of context quotation, or even that the consequences and issues I raised were irrelevant or readily and cogently answered. That is pivotal. KF PS, let's roll the tape on what you tried to attack as an alleged nonsensical critique:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent
[==> key theses of nihilism. Citing the just linked IEP: "Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history." As without rational, responsible freedom, rationality collapses, Provine implies self referential incoherence. Similarly, ethical foundations include our self evident, pervasive first duties of reason: to truth, right reason, warrant and wider prudence, fairness and justice etc. Provine has given a recipe for gross (and all too common) intellectual irresponsibility.]
. . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will [--> without responsible freedom, mind, reason and morality alike disintegrate into grand delusion, hence self-referential incoherence and self-refutation. But that does not make such fallacies any less effective in the hands of clever manipulators] . . . [1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address, U of Tenn -- and yes, that is significant i/l/o the Scopes Trial, 1925]
My pointing to IEP was on target and is a comment clearly marked out from the main summary assertion. You clearly have no ready, cogent answer to my onward point about the self referential incoherence and grand delusion. And, history confirms what manipulators did, listen to 100 million ghosts of victims. And yes there was a decayed link, thanks; replaced from Wayback. As to venue and significance i/l/o the Scopes publicity stunt and trial gone sour, that is invited by the circumstances. In short, hardly nonsensical [as you tried to dismiss] and I would argue clear enough for someone not measuring with crooked yardsticks and demanding conformity to same.kairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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F/N: To move the matter forward, here is a clip from MIT Open Courseware, on computationalism and brain neural networks. Remember, taught, graded and put in transcripts as Science:
Neural coding: linear models [MIT] 9.29 Lecture 1 1 What is computational neuroscience? The term “computational neuroscience” has two different de?nitions: 1. using a computer to study the brain 2. studying the brain as a computer In the ?rst, the ?eld is de?ned by a technique. In the second, it is de?ned by an idea. Let’s discuss these two de?nitions in more depth. Why use a computer to study the brain? The most compelling reason is the tor­ rential ?ow of data generated by neurophysiology experiments. Today it is common to simultaneously record the signals generated by tens of neurons in an awake behaving animal. Once the measurement is done, the neuroscientist must analyze the data to ?gure out what it means, and computers are necessary for this task. Computers are also used to simulate neural systems. This is important when the models are complex, so that their behaviors are not obvious from mere verbal reasoning. On to the second de?nition. What does it mean to say that the brain is a computer? To grasp this idea we must think beyond our desktop computers with their glowing screens. The abacus is a computer, and so is a slide rule. What do these examples have in common? They are all dynamical systems, but they are of a special class. What’s special is that the state of a computer represents something else. The states of transistors in your computer’s display memory represent the words and pictures that are displayed on its screen. The locations of the beads on a abacus represent the money passing through a shopkeeper’s hands. And the activities of neurons in our brains represent the things that we sense and think about. In short, computation = coding + dynamics [--> presumably, including stochastic processes] The two terms on the right hand side of this equation are the two great questions for computational neuroscience. How are computational variables are encoded in neu­ ral activity? How do the dynamical behaviors of neural networks emerge from the properties of neurons?
We see here the fleshing out of the focal issue on neurological basis as suggested core to the hard problem of consciousness. Weighted sum gates are powerful and chaining allows for very interesting properties but these are fundamentally GIGO limited computation on a dynamic-stochastic substrate. Analogue or digital signal processing does not assign meaning, insight, intentionality, reference, logical inference in accord with sound principles, weighted support, warrant, knowledge. We have ontological issues on the table here, logic of being, characteristics, distinction and more. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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In short, your argument fails. KF
I'm not making an argument. I'm just observing that your style of presentation distracts from any argument you may be making. You are welcome to ignore my observation, of course.Alan Fox
November 3, 2022
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If Provine's views on free will and determinism are correct, then can we be held accountable for holding someone else accountable? Or for enjoying revenge-based movies? And if this is a stupid comment on my part, then my defense is that I didn't have a choice in making it.hnorman42
November 3, 2022
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AF, did you pause to see that there are two very distinct things I have done, one, use ellipses and clarifying words in brackets to focus a linked or referenced discussion. Second, in a compressed form, comment similar to what I did above by snipping apart Provine line by line and adding more detailed points. I am after all quite intentionally making a critique [where there is no provision for marginalia], in a compressed way, under doctrine of fair comment. Normally, clarifying remarks are as so: [But] and a critical comment is like [--> comment] and if extended will be indented. You are trying to make a distractive mountain out of a mole hill. The substantial matter is in the critique, shown to be connected to the source, and it is clear you have tried to dismiss with contempt on the zero concessions, hyperskeptical principle, and have failed on substance. There is no reasonable doubt that Lehninger et al, leaders in Biochemistry education for nearly 50 years, agree with the consensus that D/RNA has in it coded instructions for stepwise construction of AA chains in protein synthesis. Your attempted dismissal on claimed superior knowledge of biochem failed and exposed you as trying to pose on an authority you demonstrably do not have. You subsequently played the quotation is quote mining accusation, equally failed. Now, you are trying to suggest that an embedded critique is wrong and misleading when it is clearly distinct from what it comments on and is obviously a markup, regrettably we do not have access to different text colour or the like that would give another level of distinction. In short, your argument fails. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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VL, yes this is Provine's abstract, which counts as a valid part of his speech as published online. The arguments are his, the failures are patent. He is not being idiosyncratic, he is drawing out fairly serious and fairly widely understood issues of modernism and postmodernism as influenced by evolutionary materialistic scientism and fellow travellers. He seems to be aware of some of Darwin's stated civilisational intentions, as can be documented from his letters. Now, I did summarily label his denials as forms of nihilism. That can be readily shown to be a correct assessment. Wikipedia's confession:
Nihilism (/?na?(h)?l?z?m, ?ni?-/; from Latin nihil 'nothing') is a philosophy, or family of views within philosophy, that rejects generally accepted or fundamental aspects of human existence,[1][2] such as objective truth, knowledge, morality, values, or meaning.[3][4] . . . . There have been different nihilist positions, including that human values are baseless, that life is meaningless, that knowledge is impossible, or that some set of entities do not exist or are meaningless or pointless.[5][6] . . . . The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence or arbitrariness of human principles and social institutions. Nihilism has also been described as conspicuous in or constitutive of certain historical periods. For example,[11] Jean Baudrillard[12][13] and others have characterized postmodernity as a nihilistic epoch[14] or mode of thought.[15] Likewise, some theologians and religious figures have stated that postmodernity[16] and many aspects of modernity[17] represent nihilism by a negation of religious principles. Nihilism has, however, been widely ascribed to both religious and irreligious viewpoints.[8] In popular use, the term commonly refers to forms of existential nihilism, according to which life is without intrinsic value, meaning, or purpose.[18] Other prominent positions within nihilism include the rejection of all normative and ethical views (§ Moral nihilism), the rejection of all social and political institutions (§ Political nihilism), the stance that no knowledge can or does exist (§ Epistemological nihilism), and a number of metaphysical positions, which assert that non-abstract objects do not exist (§ Metaphysical nihilism), that composite objects do not exist (§ Mereological nihilism), or even that life itself does not exist.
Provine's views as asserted as if they were scientifically grounded facts, clearly fall in this spectrum. Plato, long before, pointed to much the same consequences. And, Provine's attempt to relabel justice as little more than revenge, is tellingly indicative of the hazards in play. Now, you disagree as does PM1, no one denies that. The issue is, Dawkins' acid that allegedly makes it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist -- though in fact what is self referentially incoherent cannot be true. Is there a logic of argument or rhetoric, a logic of invited or enabled trend/agenda and institutional power in this thinking that points and pushes in that direction. Clearly, yes. People recoil from it, as Provine admitted as to responsible rational freedom, but it is there. We can see many attempts to rescue "values" and sound social order, all failed or visibly failing as we see with say the USA. As for the mind and responsible, rational freedom, the issues have been highlighted since Haldane, 1927. Reppert is just drawing out the problem [at book length BTW], there really is a trend to see mind as an epiphenomenon of dynamic-stochastic computation on a wetware substrate, with claimed incremental programming and condition tracing to non-rational sources. Reppert, as was Lewis before him, is correct to point out the sharp difference of identity between blind dynamic-stochastic processes and rational inference on insight and recognised principles of right reason. Do I need to point to the problem of consciousness -- embedded in Reppert's point -- as summarised by say Bloch? As in: https://web.archive.org/web/20060305010539/http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/faculty/block/papers/ecs.pdf
The Hard Problem of consciousness is how to explain a state of consciousness in terms of its neurological basis [--> this of course inserts precisely the computationalism as pointed out, it is also instantly self referential] . . . . There are many perspectives on the Hard Problem but I will mention only the four that comport with a naturalistic framework . . . . Eliminativism . . . . Philosophical Reductionism or Deflationism . . . . Phenomenal Realism, or Inflationism . . . . Dualistic Naturalism.
In short, an acknowledged, real and "unsolved" central problem. Or, perhaps, that's because it is actually a fatal crack, a point of self defeating self referentiality that therefore points outside the box we are told we must stay in. The suspicion grows as one sees attempts repeatedly fall into the sort of self defeating claim made by Crick:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
The problem in this was highlighted by the late Philip Johnson, who aptly replied that the equally late Sir Francis should have therefore been willing to preface his works thusly: "I, Francis Crick, my opinions and my science, and even the thoughts expressed in this book, consist of nothing more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules." Johnson then acidly commented: “[t]he plausibility of materialistic determinism requires that an implicit exception be made for the theorist.” [Reason in the Balance, 1995.] Others have sought an emergent mind, but that generally falls into poof word magic. By now it is a Sci Fi trope how some complex AI falls into becoming self aware and boom we have a mind and character like David Weber's Dahak and his Athrawes. I am not sure if HAL becomes self aware in 2001. Such are fantasies. And emergentism has simply failed to show a means to transcend the GIGO barrier of computationalism, as the more serious literature will show. Such emergentism or evolutionary confidence is an unstable point, it either dissolves into computationalism or it explodes into admitting mind by the back door. Typically, unreflectively. This is actually what Provine was trying to overturn. Then, there are those who try to turn the tables, challenging that some cartesian dualistic mind or soul as ghost in the machine of the body has no basis to influence the material world. So there, you dualists have an even bigger problem. Nope, not in an information age. Information is routinely expressed or embedded in matter-energy constructs, is thereby measurable etc, but it stubbornly refuses to be reduced to matter and energy. That is, we see a major phenomenon that points beyond this ghost in the machine challenge. An obvious context is quantum influence given the issue of observer effects etc. That's pretty messy and hairy in itself but it does help open our thinking. I have suggested that Eng Derek Smith's two tier interactive controller with an interface shared memory space is a good first point for onward discussion. Reality, at its root, cannot be material, as, such is inherently contingent, just ponder E = m*c^2 on this. So, we need another order of existence that can have necessary beings. Historically, that has been termed the spiritual realm and candidate no 1 for reality root necessary being and creator of the material world is God. (To be explored later on.) What of mind and soul? A serious answer has been, the interface between the two realms. We face a mystery highlighted in that classical era work that is the most commonly published book:
2 Cor 4:18 18 as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal. Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. Heb 11:3 By faith [trusting God at his word] we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
I cite these not as proof but as outlining that there is a longstanding alternative in our civilisation that still has a message for us. One, worth pondering i/l/o the issue of being and root of reality, where to ponder with any credibility we must have minds that are rationally, responsibly, credibly significantly free to act as Reppert summarised. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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Clarifying words in square brackets is standard.
That's not what you do. You interpolate criticism. That is not standard and is misleading. It's a shame Provine died prematurely. I'm sure his defence and clarification of his own position and your criticism of it would have made for an interesting discussion.Alan Fox
November 3, 2022
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AF, There is demonstrably no misquoting or quoting out of context...
As I said, your eccentric style leads to a perception of, shall I say, lack of professionalism. It may lead to people scrolling over your comments, as most seem to do with BA77's comments. Why post at all if your views are not read, not noticed, not taken seriously? Look at the relationship between Provine and Johnson. Maybe just discussing differences in world-view civilly without impugning the integrity of those with whom you disagree might be more effective. We all have to live together on this Earth, after all, no matter some of us live on small islands or deep in rural backwaters.Alan Fox
November 3, 2022
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AF, There is demonstrably no misquoting or quoting out of context. There is a source link, thanks for pointing out a fairly common problem, but remedy was also common, first link at web archive, searched through the original URL. Next, ellipsis is commonplace and appropriate rather than including secondary or extraneous material. Clarifying words in square brackets is standard. My own comments are there, a compressed form of the clip in parts and comment on points that I subsequently made. None of that is misrepresented as part of the original source. You are making a distractive, often personality laced objection. KFkairosfocus
November 3, 2022
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8: Notice, I used ellipses and notified internal notes, also a clarifying [But], how horrible, quote mining! NOT.
Your eccentric style maybe isn't intended to mislead (that is certainly it's effect). But to avoid confusion, you should keep quotations separate from your own comments. I guess it stems from laziness, copying and pasting stuff you have written previously elsewhere. Maybe you are in some kind of competition with BA77. One piece of advice, check your links before posting. I always do. It avoids the embarrassment of having to correct oneself.Alan Fox
November 3, 2022
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Will Provine died from brain cancer in 2015 at the age of 73. His Wikipedia entry mentions his being a determinist and thus rejecting libertarian free will. This is a position Jerry Coyne also holds. I don't find it convincing myself. Interestingly, Wikipedia tells us
He debated the founder of the intelligent design movement, Phillip E. Johnson, and the two had a friendly relationship. Provine said that his course on evolutionary biology began by having his students read Johnson's book, Darwin on Trial.[9]
A lesson there for those wishing to polarize any debate.Alan Fox
November 2, 2022
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KF, thanks for linking to the abstract of the speech, but that's not the speech itself. In the abstract, he says, “But I will argue that moral responsibility is actually based upon the lack of free will”. My guess is that I would disagree with some substantial parts of his argument (I am not a Provine fan, nor have the same metaphysical viewpoint as he does), but it would still be interesting to see what the argument is. More importantly, Provine wrote, “3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists;” Your response was to label these “ethical nihilism, metaphysical/existential nihilism.” For the record, I disagree that what Provine said implies what you said. You and I have discussed this more often than I care to recount, but I thought I’d remind readers of my position here.Viola Lee
November 2, 2022
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VL, I continued the quote, giving wayback machine. You will see it only gets worse. Nor is Provine an isolated case, Plato was already highlighting the problem 2360 years ago. The root is the IS-OUGHT gap, and the second issue is undermining the credibility of reason, knowledge, mind. KFkairosfocus
November 2, 2022
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PM1, kindly, provide a cogent summary, not that many do not accept the sort of conclusions a Provine or many like him draw, but good reason to reject these as logical consequences of evolutionary materialistic scientism and/or fellow travellers. In particular, on such, how do we become morally governed, that does not end in undermining morality; including justice. KFkairosfocus
November 2, 2022
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AF, your now usual, uncivil projections appear. Wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20070829083051/http://eeb.bio.utk.edu/darwin/Archives/1998ProvineAbstract.htm
"Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life" (Abstract) Dr. William Provine Second Annual Darwin Day Celebration University of Tennessee, Knoxville Feb. 12, 1998 Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent. Free Will The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will. Without free will, moral responsibility seems impossible. But I will argue that moral responsibility is actually based upon the lack of free will. Free will is a disastrous and mean social myth. Using free will as an excuse, we condone a vicious attitude of revenge toward anyone who does wrong in our society. Most of the movies in a video store are based upon getting even with some nasty person. This attitude leads to a gross ly expensive and hopeless systems of punishment in America , though much the same attitude can be found in most countries around the world. Without free will, justification for revenge disappears and rehabilitation is the main job of judicial systems and prisons. We will all live in a better society when the myth of free will is dispelled. Devout Christians also believe in forgiveness and rehabilitation. Agreement here is possible between atheism and religion . . .
It is quite clear that the citation is accurate, does not twist the meaning and it is highly fair comment to note as I identified already. For cause, on track record, I no longer expect serious commentary from you, let this stand as an exposure of your attitude. Now, I comment on snippets: >>"Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life" (Abstract) Dr. William Provine Second Annual Darwin Day Celebration University of Tennessee, Knoxville Feb. 12, 1998>> 1: Context and its significance are as already noted. >>Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.>> 2: The issues are as noted. He implies fundamental atheism, materialism, ethical nihilism, metaphysical/existential nihilism and denial of freedom, precisely as advertised. 3: Your attempts to taint my earlier quote are shown to be out of order and without foundation, they seem to be an attempt to push away concerns you have no serious substantial answer to. 4: Notice, the lack of responsible, rational freedom undermines credibility of mind to even think his own thoughts. >>Free Will>> 5: How horrible, I left out a section title, horrible distortion! NOT. >>The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication.>> 6: He admits the disquiet, but of course, this is driven by the intuitive recognition that if we lack responsible rational freedom, this seriously and for cause undermines confidence in our minds, arguments, theorising etc. 7: There are those who try to argue otherwise but they have to deal first with the self referentiality then with the implications highlighted by Reppert and many others:
. . . let us suppose that brain state A [--> notice, state of a wetware, electrochemically operated computational substrate], which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief [--> concious, perceptual state or disposition] that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.
8: Notice, I used ellipses and notified internal notes, also a clarifying [But], how horrible, quote mining! NOT. >> I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices.>> 9: With a spot of generosity, include the stochastic, humans are here seen as in effect dynamic stochastic computational substrates, whereby choices are programmed and/or random. That is, "choice" is redefined as not being an aspect of freedom. 10: If Provine's conclusions are driven by blind mechanical necessity and/or stochastic patterns, i.e. causal rather than rational processes, they are of absolutely no credibility. >> They have, however, no free will.>> 11: Directly stated. >>Without free will, moral responsibility seems impossible. But I will argue that moral responsibility is actually based upon the lack of free will.>> 12: Intellectual responsibility also, and no we cannot found responsible rationality on its denial. >>Free will is a disastrous and mean social myth. Using free will as an excuse, we condone a vicious attitude of revenge toward anyone who does wrong in our society.>> 13: He tries to redefine justice as revenge dressed up. Fail. 14: Without justice as due balance of rights, freedoms and duties, a frame of responsible lawful government collapses. He does not realise it but he is opening the door to lawless ideological oligarchy and its results as we have consistently seen since the French Revolution. >> Most of the movies in a video store are based upon getting even with some nasty person. This attitude leads to a gross ly expensive and hopeless systems of punishment in America , though much the same attitude can be found in most countries around the world.>> 15: This sets up and knocks over a strawman, ducking the nihilistic implications of undermining justice. Plato rightly warned long since in The Laws Bk X, c 2360 BC:
Ath[enian Stranger, in The Laws, Bk X 2,360 ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos -- the natural order], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity; observe, too, the trichotomy: "nature" (here, mechanical, blind necessity), "chance" (similar to a tossed fair die), ART (the action of a mind, i.e. intelligently directed configuration)] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all[--> notice the reduction to zero] in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics, so too justice, law and government: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin"), opening the door to cynicism, hyperskepticism and nihilism . . . this is actually an infamous credo of nihilism . . . also, it reeks of cynically manipulative lawless oligarchy . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
16: This is what Provine needed to answer instead, along with the course of history since 1789 and especially since 1917 and 1933. >>Without free will, justification for revenge disappears and rehabilitation is the main job of judicial systems and prisons. We will all live in a better society when the myth of free will is dispelled.>> 17: Not on evidence, and we again see the strawman twisting of justice into revenge. 18: We could go on but the point is clear enough. KFkairosfocus
November 2, 2022
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KF does love him some Provine. What KF can't accept is that there are lots of other metaphysical ways to understand the world, including evolution and the five issues Provine mentions, and that Provine is not the definitive spokesperson for anything or for any group of people. I also note that on the key issue, KF truncates what Provine wrote: it would be nice to see more but, as AF points out, the link to the speech is broken, which prevents us from seeing more of what Provine said. Provine is quoted as saying “I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices, “ which is the same thing a number of us said in a long thread on free will a while back. That position can be defended from a number of metaphysical viewpoints, not just Provine’s.Viola Lee
November 2, 2022
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Be wary PM1, KF's "quote" of Provine is stuffed with KF nonsense in square brackets. The link is also broken.Alan Fox
November 2, 2022
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@47 Needless to say, I think Provine was quite mistaken as to the implications of evolutionary theory.PyrrhoManiac1
November 2, 2022
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PM1, there has been quite the needless debate here at UD on this ground, and it was clear that it was the agenda not the logic. Which, sadly, obtains for too many issues of civilisational significance. That is fact in the record. However, kindly provide for me a solution to the sort of dilemma that, say, Provine et al put up on rational responsible freedom under evolutionary materialistic scientism. KF PS, here is a clip, from Provine's 1998 Darwin Day Address at U Tenn:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent
[==> key theses of nihilism. Citing the just linked IEP: "Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history." As without rational, responsible freedom, rationality collapses, Provine implies self referential incoherence. Similarly, ethical foundations include our self evident, pervasive first duties of reason: to truth, right reason, warrant and wider prudence, fairness and justice etc. Provine has given a recipe for gross (and all too common) intellectual irresponsibility.]
. . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will [--> without responsible freedom, mind, reason and morality alike disintegrate into grand delusion, hence self-referential incoherence and self-refutation. But that does not make such fallacies any less effective in the hands of clever manipulators] . . . [1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address, U of Tenn -- and yes, that is significant i/l/o the Scopes Trial, 1925]
kairosfocus
November 2, 2022
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