DNA Intelligent Design

At Big Think: “Spooky” quantum biology might cause your DNA to mutate

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Researchers studying quantum tunneling within DNA implicate these effects as a possible cause of point mutations, and believe it or not, as a possible aid to the origin of life. At the same time, the researchers cite “highly efficient DNA repair mechanisms” within our our DNA replication machinery that “includes a ‘proofreading’ ability, in which mistakes are detected and corrected.” Sounds like further evidence of an intelligently designed system.

Theoretical research suggests that quantum effects could drive mutations in human DNA. This is the latest development in an emerging field called quantum biology.

3D illustration of a method of DNA sequencing. Credit: ktsdesign / Adobe Stock

The mechanism involves proton transfer through quantum tunnelling, a process that occurs in one-quadrillionth of a second. Cells have built-in proofreading systems that help prevent these mutations.

Could quantum mechanics — a field that Albert Einstein once derided as “spooky” — affect us in a highly personal way? Quite possibly. Theoretical research is beginning to suggest that quantum effects could drive mutations in human DNA. If true, this could change how we understand cancer, genetic disease, and even the origins of life.

Scientists once thought biological systems too warm, wet, and chaotic to experience weird quantum effects like proton tunneling, in which the particle’s waveform spreads out, allowing it to blip across an energy barrier that would normally block its passage. Generally, the more heat and chaos around, the smaller the quantum effect; so, for many years, scientists thought that in the human body quantum behaviors would be too small to matter.

But you can’t find what you aren’t looking for. As quantum physicists start to poke at the messy and complex world of biology, they are finding quantum mechanics at play, even within our DNA. Welcome to the world of quantum biology.

Quantum biology

For 50 years, researchers have debated whether protons switching positions between weakly bound strands of DNA could cause point mutations. The answer seemed like no. Many studies have concluded that the intermediate base-pair states created by proton switching were too unstable and short-lived to be replicated in the DNA. But a new study published in the journal Communications Physics finds that these states can be frequent and stable, and that quantum processes may drive their formation.

Instead of preventing protons from tunnelling, our biological warmth may act as a source of thermal activation, giving protons enough energy to pop over to the other side [of a G:C base-pair]. Indeed, proton transfer through quantum tunnelling is four times more likely than predicted by classical physics. Not only are these occurrences common, but they are also long-lived. Based on previous computational studies, the researchers predict that these molecular changes should be stable long enough to be replicated — causing a mutation.

Based on the team’s calculations, point mutations should appear in our DNA much more frequently than they do. The researchers attribute this difference to “highly efficient DNA repair mechanisms” that find and undo the damage. For instance, our DNA replication machinery includes a “proofreading” ability, in which mistakes are detected and corrected — sort of like a typo. Thank goodness for biological copy editors.

The ease of proton tunneling and the longevity of these intermediate states might even be relevant to studies on the origin of life, the researchers write, because the rate of early evolution is linked to the mutation rate of single-stranded RNA. Thus, though the quantum world might seem weird and distant, it might have played a role in giving us life — and also taking it away.

Big Think

12 Replies to “At Big Think: “Spooky” quantum biology might cause your DNA to mutate

  1. 1
    Lieutenant Commander Data says:

    quantum tunneling within DNA implicate these effects as a possible cause of point mutations, and believe it or not, as a possible aid to the origin of life.

    “highly efficient DNA repair mechanisms” within our our DNA replication machinery that “includes a ‘proofreading’ ability, in which mistakes are detected and corrected.”

    Doesn’t make sense . Quantum tunneling creates point mutations and point mutations creates repair mechanisms and repair mechanisms repair point mutations? I don’t think so . Looks like materialist agenda for me.
    Secondly we don’t really know what is “a mutation” in the context of “nothing is random inside cell.” Could be algorithms of fine-tuning , editing, reorganising(darwinist’ explanations of “neutral mutations” doesn’t make sense -because ignore proofreading, repairing mechanisms)

  2. 2
    bornagain77 says:

    Quantum effects are at play on a far larger ‘macroscopic’ scale in biology than just being a potential source for point mutations at the microscopic scale.

    As the following 2006 article entitled ‘Classical and Quantum Information Channels in Protein Chain’ stated, “On the basis of force constants, displacements of each atom in peptide plane, and time of action we found that the value of the peptide plane action is close to the Planck constant. This indicates that peptide plane from the energy viewpoint possesses synergetic classical/quantum properties.”

    Classical and Quantum Information Channels in Protein Chain – Dj. Koruga, A. Tomi?, Z. Ratkaj, L. Matija – 2006
    Abstract: Investigation of the properties of peptide plane in protein chain from both classical and quantum approach is presented. We calculated interatomic force constants for peptide plane and hydrogen bonds between peptide planes in protein chain. On the basis of force constants, displacements of each atom in peptide plane, and time of action we found that the value of the peptide plane action is close to the Planck constant. This indicates that peptide plane from the energy viewpoint possesses synergetic classical/quantum properties. Consideration of peptide planes in protein chain from information viewpoint also shows that protein chain possesses classical and quantum properties. So, it appears that protein chain behaves as a triple dual system: (1) structural – amino acids and peptide planes, (2) energy – classical and quantum state, and (3) information – classical and quantum coding. Based on experimental facts of protein chain, we proposed from the structure-energy-information viewpoint its synergetic code system.
    http://www.scientific.net/MSF.518.491

    Moreover, the following 2015 article, entitled “Quantum coherent-like state observed in a biological protein for the first time”, stated, “If you take certain atoms and make them almost as cold as they possibly can be, the atoms will fuse into a collective low-energy quantum state called a Bose-Einstein condensate. In 1968 physicist Herbert Fröhlich predicted that a similar process at a much higher temperature could concentrate all of the vibrational energy in a biological protein into its lowest-frequency vibrational mode. Now scientists in Sweden and Germany have the first experimental evidence of such so-called Fröhlich condensation (in proteins).,,,”

    Quantum coherent-like state observed in a biological protein for the first time – October 13, 2015
    Excerpt: If you take certain atoms and make them almost as cold as they possibly can be, the atoms will fuse into a collective low-energy quantum state called a Bose-Einstein condensate. In 1968 physicist Herbert Fröhlich predicted that a similar process at a much higher temperature could concentrate all of the vibrational energy in a biological protein into its lowest-frequency vibrational mode. Now scientists in Sweden and Germany have the first experimental evidence of such so-called Fröhlich condensation (in proteins).,,,
    The real-world support for Fröhlich’s theory (for proteins) took so long to obtain because of the technical challenges of the experiment, Katona said.
    http://phys.org/news/2015-10-q.....otein.html

    And in the following 2015 paper entitled, “Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules” it was found that “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” and the researchers further commented that “finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,

    Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules – Mar. 6, 2015
    Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say.
    That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.”
    The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
    “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?”
    https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552

    ,,, “of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,” is, obviously, very antagonistic to Darwinian presuppositions. As this follow up 2018 article stated, “There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,,”

    Quantum Critical Proteins – Stuart Lindsay – Professor of Physics and Chemistry at Arizona State University – 2018
    Excerpt: The difficulty with this proposal lies in its improbability. Only an infinitesimal density of random states exists near the critical point.,,
    Gábor Vattay et al. recently examined a number of proteins and conducting and insulating polymers.14 The distribution for the insulators and conductors were as expected, but the functional proteins all fell on the quantum-critical distribution. Such a result cannot be a consequence of chance.,,,
    WHAT OF quantum criticality? Vattay et al. carried out electronic structure calculations for the very large protein used in our work. They found that the distribution of energy-level spacings fell on exactly the quantum-critical distribution, implying that this protein is also quantum critical. There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,,
    http://inference-review.com/ar.....l-proteins
    Gábor Vattay et al., “Quantum Criticality at the Origin of Life,” Journal of Physics: Conference Series 626 (2015);
    Gábor Vattay, Stuart Kauffman, and Samuli Niiranen, “Quantum Biology on the Edge of Quantum Chaos,” PLOS One 9, no. 3 (2014)

    As well, DNA itself does not belong to the world of classical mechanics but instead belongs to the world of quantum mechanics. In the following video, at the 22:20 minute mark, Dr Rieper shows why the high temperatures of biological systems do not prevent DNA from having quantum entanglement and then at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper goes on to remark that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it.

    “What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state.”
    Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it)
    https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176

    What is so devastating to Darwinian presuppositions with the (empirical) finding of pervasive quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement within molecular biology, is that quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement is a non-local, beyond space and time, effect that requires a beyond space and time cause in order to explain its existence. As the following paper entitled “Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory” stated, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”

    Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012
    Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”
    http://www.quantumlah.org/high.....uences.php

    Moreover, as the following study found, the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, (which is exactly the type of quantum coherence that we have with biological molecules), the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles.

    Physicists find extreme violation of local realism in quantum hypergraph states – Lisa Zyga – March 4, 2016
    Excerpt: Many quantum technologies rely on quantum states that violate local realism, which means that they either violate locality (such as when entangled particles influence each other from far away) or realism (the assumption that quantum states have well-defined properties, independent of measurement), or possibly both. Violation of local realism is one of the many counterintuitive, yet experimentally supported, characteristics of the quantum world.
    Determining whether or not multiparticle quantum states violate local realism can be challenging. Now in a new paper, physicists have shown that a large family of multiparticle quantum states called hypergraph states violates local realism in many ways. The results suggest that these states may serve as useful resources for quantum technologies, such as quantum computers and detecting gravitational waves.,,,
    The physicists also showed that the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles. In addition, even if a quantum hypergraph state loses one of its particles, it continues to violate local realism. This robustness to particle loss is in stark contrast to other types of quantum states, which no longer violate local realism if they lose a particle. This property is particularly appealing for applications, since it might allow for more noise in experiments.
    http://phys.org/news/2016-03-p.....alism.html

    Darwinists, with their reductive materialistic framework, and especially with the falsification of ‘hidden variables’, simply have no beyond space and time cause that they can appeal so as to be able to explain the non-local quantum coherence and/or entanglement that is now found to be ubiquitous within biology.

    Einstein vs quantum mechanics, and why he’d be a convert today – June 13, 2014
    Excerpt: In a nutshell, experimentalists John Clauser, Alain Aspect, Anton Zeilinger, Paul Kwiat and colleagues have performed the Bell proposal for a test of Einstein’s hidden variable theories. All results so far support quantum mechanics. It seems that when two particles undergo entanglement, whatever happens to one of the particles can instantly affect the other, even if the particles are separated!
    http://phys.org/news/2014-06-e.....today.html

    “hidden variables don’t exist. If you have proved them come back with PROOF and a Nobel Prize.
    John Bell theorized that maybe the particles can signal faster than the speed of light. This is what he advocated in his interview in “The Ghost in the Atom.” But the violation of Leggett’s inequality in 2007 takes away that possibility and rules out all non-local hidden variables. Observation instantly defines what properties a particle has and if you assume they had properties before we measured them, then you need evidence, because right now there is none which is why realism is dead, and materialism dies with it.
    How does the particle know what we are going to pick so it can conform to that?”
    per Jimfit – uncommon descent

    Whereas, on the other hand, the Christian Theist readily does have a beyond space and time cause that he can appeal to so as to explain quantum entanglement. As Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

    Colossians 1:17
    He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

  3. 3
    bornagain77 says:

    Further evidence that quantum effects are not limited to the microscopic scale of biology but are also at play at the macroscopic scale is revealed by the following.

    The following article on human vision stated that, “Research,, has shown that humans can detect the presence of a single photon, the smallest measurable unit of light”.,,, “it is remarkable: a photon, the smallest physical entity with quantum properties of which light consists, is interacting with a biological system consisting of billions of cells, all in a warm and wet environment,”,, and the researched added, “The response that the photon generates survives all the way to the level of our awareness despite the ubiquitous background noise. Any man-made detector would need to be cooled and isolated from noise to behave the same way.”,,, “What we want to know next is how does a biological system achieve such sensitivity? How does it achieve this in the presence of noise?”

    Study suggests humans can detect even the smallest units of light – July 21, 2016
    Excerpt: Research,, has shown that humans can detect the presence of a single photon, the smallest measurable unit of light. Previous studies had established that human subjects acclimated to the dark were capable only of reporting flashes of five to seven photons.,,,
    it is remarkable: a photon, the smallest physical entity with quantum properties of which light consists, is interacting with a biological system consisting of billions of cells, all in a warm and wet environment,” says Vaziri. “The response that the photon generates survives all the way to the level of our awareness despite the ubiquitous background noise. Any man-made detector would need to be cooled and isolated from noise to behave the same way.”,,,
    The gathered data from more than 30,000 trials demonstrated that humans can indeed detect a single photon incident on their eye with a probability significantly above chance.
    “What we want to know next is how does a biological system achieve such sensitivity? How does it achieve this in the presence of noise?”
    http://phys.org/news/2016-07-humans-smallest.html

    Moreover, in the following article it is noted that Multielectrode recordings have revealed zero time lag synchronization among remote cerebral cortical areas.

    ,,, zero time lag neuronal synchrony despite long conduction delays – 2008
    Excerpt: Multielectrode recordings have revealed zero time lag synchronization among remote cerebral cortical areas. However, the axonal conduction delays among such distant regions can amount to several tens of milliseconds. It is still unclear which mechanism is giving rise to isochronous discharge of widely distributed neurons, despite such latencies,,,
    Remarkably, synchrony of neuronal activity is not limited to short-range interactions within a cortical patch. Interareal synchronization across cortical regions including interhemispheric areas has been observed in several tasks (7, 9, 11–14).,,,
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....MC2575223/

    As the following article states, “It’s certainly true that electrical activity in the brain is synchronised over distances that cannot be easily explained. Electrical signals travel too slowly to do this job, so something else must be at work.,,,”

    The Puzzling Role Of Biophotons In The Brain – Dec. 17, 2010
    Excerpt: It’s certainly true that electrical activity in the brain is synchronised over distances that cannot be easily explained. Electrical signals travel too slowly to do this job, so something else must be at work.,,,
    ,,, It’s a big jump to assume that photons do this job.
    http://www.technologyreview.co.....the-brain/

    As well, evidence strongly suggesting that quantum mechanisms must be at play on the macroscopic level of the human body is also revealed in the following article where it is shown that a subject perceives a sensory stimulus on the skin at the moment the skin is touched, before the stimulus reaches the brain and before full deliberative consciousness occurs.

    Do Perceptions Happen in Your Brain? – Michael Egnor – December 1, 2015
    Excerpt: The sensory experiments of Benjamin Libet, a neuroscientist at U.C. San Francisco in the mid 20th century, demonstrated that a subject perceives a sensory stimulus on the skin at the moment the skin is touched, before the stimulus reaches the brain and before full deliberative consciousness occurs. Libet was flabbergasted by this result,,,
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....01261.html

    As Libet himself remarked, “In spite of the delay for a sensory experience, subjectively there appears to be no delay.”

    Reflections on the interaction of the mind and brain – Benjamin Libet – 2006
    Excerpt: “In spite of the delay for a sensory experience, subjectively there appears to be no delay.”
    – Benjamin_Libet
    https://web.archive.org/web/20110718052421/http://www.telefonica.net/web2/lupelandia/piramidescerebro/Libet.pdf

    To repeat what was stated earlier, “Electrical signals travel too slowly to do this job, so something else must be at work.,,,”

    Moreover, it is also interesting to point out that Darwinian materialists have no realistic clue why our material bodies, (conservatively estimated to contain at least a billion trillion molecules), should even ‘cohere’ as a single unified whole.

    As Stephen Talbott succinctly puts the dilemma for Darwinists, “the question, rather, is why things don’t fall completely apart — as they do, in fact, at the moment of death. What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer? Despite the countless processes going on in the cell, and despite the fact that each process might be expected to “go its own way” according to the myriad factors impinging on it from all directions, the actual result is quite different.”

    The Unbearable Wholeness of Beings – Stephen L. Talbott – 2010
    Excerpt: Virtually the same collection of molecules exists in the canine cells during the moments immediately before and after death. But after the fateful transition no one will any longer think of genes as being regulated, nor will anyone refer to normal or proper chromosome functioning. No molecules will be said to guide other molecules to specific targets, and no molecules will be carrying signals, which is just as well because there will be no structures recognizing signals. Code, information, and communication, in their biological sense, will have disappeared from the scientist’s vocabulary.
    ,,, the question, rather, is why things don’t fall completely apart — as they do, in fact, at the moment of death. What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?
    Despite the countless processes going on in the cell, and despite the fact that each process might be expected to “go its own way” according to the myriad factors impinging on it from all directions, the actual result is quite different. Rather than becoming progressively disordered in their mutual relations (as indeed happens after death, when the whole dissolves into separate fragments), the processes hold together in a larger unity.
    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/.....-of-beings

    In short, ‘non-local’ quantum coherence/entanglement of the entire human body provides a satisfactory answer to the question of, “why (don’t) things fall completely apart — as they do, in fact, at the moment of death. What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?”

    it is also important to realize that quantum information, unlike classical information, is physically conserved. As the following article states, In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed.

    Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time – 2011
    Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment.
    http://www.physorg.com/news/20.....tally.html

    The implication of finding ‘non-local’, (beyond space and time), and ‘conserved’, (cannot be created nor destroyed), quantum information in molecular biology on such a massive scale, ‘in every important biomolecule in our bodies’, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious.
    That pleasant implication, of course, being the fact that we now have very strong empirical evidence proving that we do indeed have a transcendent, metaphysical, component to our being, a “soul”, that is capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies.

    As Stuart Hameroff succinctly stated in the following article, “the quantum information,,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”

    Leading Scientists Say Consciousness Cannot Die It Goes Back To The Universe – Oct. 19, 2017 – Spiritual
    Excerpt: “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
    – Stuart Hameroff – Quantum Entangled Consciousness – Life After Death – video (5:00 minute mark) (of note, this video is no longer available for public viewing)
    https://radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/10/life-after-death-soul-science-morgan-freeman/

    Personally, I consider these recent findings from quantum biology to rival all other scientific discoveries over the past century. Surpassing even the discovery of a beginning of the universe, via Big Bang cosmology, in terms of scientific, theological, and even personal, significance.

    As Jesus once asked his disciples, along with a crowd of followers, “Is anything worth more than your soul?”

    Verse:

    Mark 8:37
    Is anything worth more than your soul?

  4. 4
    Lieutenant Commander Data says:

    Bornagain77
    As Stuart Hameroff succinctly stated in the following article, “the quantum information,,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”

    Soon you gonna say quantum is god therefore god become an entity to be studied by physicists. Maybe your intentions are honorable but you try to transform religion in science . I don’t think Jesus intended that.

  5. 5
    bornagain77 says:

    LCD, “but you try to transform religion in(to) science”

    Despite the false warfare thesis that is constantly promulgated by atheists, religion and science are not now, nor have they ever been, antagonistic towards each other. In fact Judeo-Christian presuppositions lay at the founding of, (and still are very much essential to the continued successful practice of), modern science.

    The Judeo-Christian Origins of Modern Science – Stephen Meyer – video – (April 2022)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss-kzyXeqdQ

    Verse:

    1 Thessalonians 5:21
    but test all things. Hold fast to what is good.

  6. 6
    Seversky says:

    It is no false warfare thesis judging by the persistent campaign conducted here against the “clowns” who support the theory of evolution which, apparently, is viewed as an existential threat to religious beliefs,

  7. 7
    Silver Asiatic says:

    It shouldn’t be a warfare although people on both sides often act like it is.

  8. 8
    bornagain77 says:

    Sev: “It is no false warfare thesis” (that is constantly promulgated by atheists),,

    Well actually there certainly is a false warfare thesis constantly promulgated by atheists, despite Severely predictable denial to the contrary,,,

    The Importance of the Warfare Thesis – Cornelius Hunter, PhD in Biophysics – July 26, 2015
    Excerpt: Historians have understood for the better part of a century now that this Warfare Thesis (between science and religion) is a false history. It was constructed by evolutionists to frame the origins debate in their favor. In fact the conflict is the exactly the opposite—it is between the metaphysical foundation of evolutionary thought and science. That metaphysical foundation of naturalism is unyielding and unbending, and it makes no sense on the science. It is the evolutionists who have a conflict between their religious beliefs and science. The Warfare Thesis is an attempt to turn the tables and turn the attention away from the obvious problems with evolutionary thought,,
    http://darwins-god.blogspot.co.....logos.html

    The Two Guys to Blame for the Myth of Constant Warfare between Religion and Science – February 27, 2015
    Excerpt: Timothy Larsen, a Christian historian who specializes in the nineteenth century, notes:
    The so-called “war” between faith and learning, specifically between orthodox Christian theology and science, was manufactured during the second half of the nineteenth century. It is a construct that was created for polemical purposes.
    No one deserves more blame for this stubborn myth than these two men:
    Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918), the founding president of Cornell University, and
    John William Draper (1811-1882), professor of chemistry at the University of New York.
    http://www.thegospelcoalition......d-science/

    Also see Stephen Meyer’s recent video where he also mentions the false warfare thesis of atheists:

    The Judeo-Christian Origins of Modern Science – Stephen Meyer – video – (April 2022)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss-kzyXeqdQ

    And again, modern science is vitally dependent on presuppositions that can only be grounded within Theistic metaphysics

    Physics and the Mind of God: The Templeton Prize Address – by Paul Davies – August 1995
    Excerpt: “People take it for granted that the physical world is both ordered and intelligible. The underlying order in nature-the laws of physics-are simply accepted as given, as brute facts. Nobody asks where they came from; at least they do not do so in polite company. However, even the most atheistic scientist accepts as an act of faith that the universe is not absurd, that there is a rational basis to physical existence manifested as law-like order in nature that is at least partly comprehensible to us. So science can proceed only if the scientist adopts an essentially theological worldview.”
    https://www.firstthings.com/article/1995/08/003-physics-and-the-mind-of-god-the-templeton-prize-address-24

    Taking Science on Faith – By PAUL DAVIES – NOV. 24, 2007
    Excerpt: All science proceeds on the assumption that nature is ordered in a rational and intelligible way. You couldn’t be a scientist if you thought the universe was a meaningless jumble of odds and ends haphazardly juxtaposed.
    ,,, the very notion of physical law is a theological one in the first place, a fact that makes many scientists squirm. Isaac Newton first got the idea of absolute, universal, perfect, immutable laws from the Christian doctrine that God created the world and ordered it in a rational way. Christians envisage God as upholding the natural order from beyond the universe,,,,
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11.....avies.html

  9. 9
    Lieutenant Commander Data says:

    Seversky
    It is no false warfare thesis judging by the persistent campaign conducted here against the “clowns” who support the theory of evolution

    Seversky it’s impossible to take grants or to keep a job or publish something in per-review if you don’t sign a contract with Darwin’s fable. In real life science is a dictature of materialists. You have to sell your conscience if you want a career in science.

  10. 10
    martin_r says:

    Seversky

    the theory of evolution which, apparently, is viewed as an existential threat to religious beliefs,

    :)))))))))))))))))))))

    you got it all wrong again …
    New discoveries in biology are an existential threat to the theory of evolution … and you guys know that, that is the reason why you insult people who don’t buy this crazy absurd theory … it looks so bad for you guys … you are getting very nervous … you [clowns] have to advocate for very absurd things, getting more absurd every new day … you look more stupid every new day …

    Seversky, what do you think ? how will all this end ? :))))))

  11. 11
    ET says:

    Perhaps the clowns should get together and formulate a scientific theory of evolution

  12. 12
    relatd says:

    Most people want the truth. To understand how things – tangible things – really are. Everything we see, including under a microscope, is made of atoms. But atoms are made of sub-atomic particles and held together by the “strong force” and “weak force.” Of course, living things participate in sub-atomic actions referred to as quantum mechanics. These interactions at the sub-atomic level must be precise or they will not work or work correctly.

    Evolution is the atheist version of events. It helps to uphold the view that human beings are just another animal and our appearance on earth was just an accident. To all reading – Is that true?

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