Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

At BigThink, an author tries to decide between science and pseudoscience

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Not easy because it depends on the judgment of “experts”. Here’s an excerpt from Princeton historian Michael D. Gordin’s book, On the Fringe: Where Science Meets Pseudoscience:

First, today’s science is adversarial. The way a scientist makes her reputation is by building on past findings, but if all she does is confirm what everyone already knew, her career stagnates. The pressures in scientific research are to do something new, and that usually means refuting a tenet of contemporary science. (We detect echoes of Karl Popper’s falsificationism.) Credit in science is allocated for priority (being first) and for being more correct than your competi- tors investigating the same questions. There will always be winners and losers. If the losers persist, they can and will get shunted to the fringe.

The second reason is that science is increasingly expensive. There are limited resources to go around, and there are always too many researchers chasing after coveted grants and high-profile publication opportunities. Within a climate of scarcity, adversarial norms necessarily generate both an incentive for winners to defend their gains and resentment from those who lost. Anyone who jeopardizes your research—say, by defending a fringe theory that contradicts it—may be seen as a threat. When nonmainstream doctrines pose a threat (real or imagined) to professional scientists, the term pseudoscience gets bandied about.

Michael D. Gordin, “What belongs in the “gray area” between science and pseudoscience?” at BigThink (December 27, 2021)

And then there is Big Science vs. COVID. Anyone care to discuss?

At which point, the defense rests.

Comments
PPS, BTW, CD, our moral knowledge will be OBJECTIVE by and large as we are error prone so need to seek warrant to arrive at reliable results, but warrant seldom delivers utter certainty beyond correction. The lurking Euthyphro dilemma in your comment runs into the gap between pagan supermen gods and the necessary, maximally great, inherently good and utterly wise root of reality and creator of ethical theism. God commends and commands the right as he is good and wise, where as wisdom can be communicated to creatures in his image, even in tiny part, the goodness can be in material part intelligible and seen to be warranted; save to those too locked into errors, rage, resentment, lusts and benumbing of moral sense to acknowledge it. Where, part of our endowment, conscience, cannot be implicitly marginalised as suspect of delusion, as conscience being pervasive that would carry our whole self aware, intelligent inner life under the taint of grand delusion. More can be said, this is enough to provoke reflective thought.kairosfocus
January 14, 2022
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CD, there is a discussion in progress, I will cross-thread a clip I got from the late Professor Dallas Willard's video presentation I just found, on disappearance of moral knowledge: https://uncommondescent.com/philosophy/lfp-48a-is-the-denial-of-objective-moral-truth-an-implicit-truth-claim-about-duty-to-right-conduct-etc-thus-subject-to-reductio/#comment-744907
(1). What is the disappearance of moral knowledge? It is the social reality that the knowledge institutions (primarily the universities, but also the “churches”) of our society do not presume to offer knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong, virtue and vice to the public. It is not a part of “testable” cognitive content of any recognized area of scholarship or practice. (The illusion of professional “ethics.”) What is knowledge and what does it do? Knowledge is the capacity to represent something as it is, on an appropriate basis of thought and experience. It and it alone confers the right and perhaps the responsibility to act, direct action, formulate policy and supervise its implementation, and teach. This helps us see what disappears along with “moral knowledge.” (2). How did this disappearance come to be the case? Not through a discovery of some kind: e.g. that there was no such knowledge. But through a lengthy historical process of idea change. Some components: (A). The dismissal of theology from the domain of knowledge [i.e. the study and systematic knowledge of God, cf Rom 1:28 – 32], and the failure to find a secular basis for ethics [–> how can evolutionary materialism found ethics?]. (B). Disappearance of the human self and knowledge of the self from “respectable” knowledge. (The “soul” from Plato on.) [–> the self-moved, rational, responsible, conscience guided significantly free agent] (C). All cultures come to be regarded as “equal.” None are morally inferior [–> diversity and radical tolerance]. Just “different.” Then there is no moral truth of the matter across cultures. [–> the denial of warranted, generally knowable objective truth on duty to right conduct, virtue etc; which cf OP has been shown to be self referentially incoherent so false] (D). Moral distinctions and standards viewed as power plays. (Nietzsche, Marx, Freud) [–> might makes right] (E). Fear or resentment of knowledge itself as oppressive. Colonialism. [–> linked disappearing of logic and truth backed by warrant so of knowledge] (F). Growth of the idea that it is always wrong to make moral judgments: that only bad or disgusting people do that. [–> the test case of a kidnapped, sexually tortured, murdered child] Pushes moral judgments out of the public domain. [–> marginalisation] (G). The failure in Philosophy to recover moral knowledge. [–> institutional failure, the mutiny on the good ship civilisation issue]
And BTW, WLC is pointing out precisely the branch on which we all sit inescapability of Ciceronian first duties of reason, even when we have managed to culturally marginalise the underlying warrant and knowledge base. Something I have been pointing out for months only to meet the sort of rhetorical flak that says we are over a sensitive, high value target. KF PS: The Ciceronian first duties: 1st - to truth, 2nd - to right reason, 3rd - to prudence [including warrant], 4th - to sound conscience, 5th - to neighbour; so also, 6th - to fairness and 7th - to justice [ . . .] xth - etckairosfocus
January 14, 2022
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JVL, you have probably persuaded WordFence's algorithms you are some sort of spammer or the like; you managed to fit some profile. WF has locked me up on individual threads before. I don't know if in doing so it locked up the whole local zone! KFkairosfocus
January 14, 2022
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Chuck Darwin, you are, as usual, wrong. Morality is objectively real, not subjective, illusory, and/or manmade as you hold. For one example out of many, the way your own genetic responses have been designed by God to subtly differentiate between 'hedonic' moral happiness and 'noble' moral happiness testifies to the objective reality of morality.
Human Cells Respond in Healthy, Unhealthy Ways to Different Kinds of Happiness – July 29, 2013 Excerpt: Human bodies recognize at the molecular level that not all happiness is created equal, responding in ways that can help or hinder physical health,,, The sense of well-being derived from “a noble purpose” may provide cellular health benefits, whereas “simple self-gratification” may have negative effects, despite an overall perceived sense of happiness, researchers found.,,, But if all happiness is created equal, and equally opposite to ill-being, then patterns of gene expression should be the same regardless of hedonic or eudaimonic well-being. Not so, found the researchers. Eudaimonic well-being was, indeed, associated with a significant decrease in the stress-related CTRA gene expression profile. In contrast, hedonic well-being was associated with a significant increase in the CTRA profile. Their genomics-based analyses, the authors reported, reveal the hidden costs of purely hedonic well-being.,, “We can make ourselves happy through simple pleasures, but those ‘empty calories’ don’t help us broaden our awareness or build our capacity in ways that benefit us physically,” she said. “At the cellular level, our bodies appear to respond better to a different kind of well-being, one based on a sense of connectedness and purpose.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130729161952.htm
Of course ChuckyD, to refute the claim that God designed our genetic responses to subtly differentiate between 'hedonic' moral happiness and 'noble' moral happiness you could simply demonstrate that Darwinian processes have the capacity within themself to create, say, a single gene and/or protein. But alas, no such demonstration seems to ever be forthcoming for you.
"Enzyme Families -- Shared Evolutionary History or Shared Design?" - Ann Gauger - December 4, 2014 Excerpt: If enzymes can't be recruited to genuinely new functions by unguided means, no matter how similar they are, the evolutionary story is false.,,, Taken together, since we found no enzyme that was within one mutation of cooption, the total number of mutations needed is at least four: one for duplication, one for over-production, and two or more single base changes. The waiting time required to achieve four mutations is 10^15 years. That's longer than the age of the universe. The real waiting time is likely to be much greater, since the two most likely candidate enzymes failed to be coopted by double mutations. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/12/a_new_paper_fro091701.html Right of Reply: Our Response to Jerry Coyne - September 29, 2019 by Günter Bechly, Brian Miller and David Berlinski Excerpt: David Gelernter observed that amino acid sequences that correspond to functional proteins are remarkably rare among the “space” of all possible combinations of amino acid sequences of a given length. Protein scientists call this set of all possible amino acid sequences or combinations “amino acid sequence space” or “combinatorial sequence space.” Gelernter made reference to this concept in his review of Meyer and Berlinski’s books. He also referenced the careful experimental work by Douglas Axe who used a technique known as site-directed mutagenesis to assess the rarity of protein folds in sequence space while he was working at Cambridge University from 1990-2003. Axe showed that the ratio of sequences in sequence space that will produce protein folds to sequences that won’t is prohibitively and vanishingly small. Indeed, in an authoritative paper published in the Journal of Molecular Biology Axe estimated that ratio at 1 in 10^74. From that information about the rarity of protein folds in sequence space, Gelernter—like Axe, Meyer and Berlinski—has drawn the rational conclusion: finding a novel protein fold by a random search is implausible in the extreme. Not so, Coyne argued. Proteins do not evolve from random sequences. They evolve by means of gene duplication. By starting from an established protein structure, protein evolution had a head start. This is not an irrational position, but it is anachronistic. Indeed, Harvard mathematical biologist Martin Nowak has shown that random searches in sequence space that start from known functional sequences are no more likely to enter regions in sequence space with new protein folds than searches that start from random sequences. The reason for this is clear: random searches are overwhelmingly more likely to go off into a non-folding, non-functional abyss than they are to find a novel protein fold. Why? Because such novel folds are so extraordinarily rare in sequence space. Moreover, as Meyer explained in Darwin’s Doubt, as mutations accumulate in functional sequences, they will inevitably destroy function long before they stumble across a new protein fold. Again, this follows from the extreme rarity (as well as the isolation) of protein folds in sequence space. Recent work by Weizmann Institute protein scientist Dan Tawfik has reinforced this conclusion. Tawfik’s work shows that as mutations to functional protein sequences accumulate, the folds of those proteins become progressively more thermodynamically and structurally unstable. Typically, 15 or fewer mutations will completely destroy the stability of known protein folds of average size. Yet, generating (or finding) a new protein fold requires far more amino acid sequence changes than that. Finally, calculations based on Tawfik’s work confirm and extend the applicability of Axe’s original measure of the rarity of protein folds. These calculations confirm that the measure of rarity that Axe determined for the protein he studied is actually representative of the rarity for large classes of other globular proteins. Not surprisingly, Dan Tawfik has described the origination of a truly novel protein or fold as “something like close to a miracle.” Tawfik is on Coyne’s side: He is mainstream. https://quillette.com/2019/09/29/right-of-reply-our-response-to-jerry-coyne/ Dan S. Tawfik Group - The New View of Proteins - Tyler Hampton - 2016 Excerpt: Tawfik soberly recognizes the problem. The appearance of early protein families, he has remarked, is “something like close to a miracle.”45,,, To the extent that Tawfik’s selection experiments were successful, it is because mutations were localized and contextualized. Mutation had a key but confined role. If evolution proceeded, the prevailing architecture of the active sites and protein shapes nonetheless remains intact. Changes were not to central structures, but to peripheral loops. A great deal of flexibility was discovered. Still, it is hard to see how any of this could build proteins—that is, in the sense of building their fundamental shapes, or scaffolds; and build proteins in terms of explaining the key catalytic strategies of each active site. Even in the impressive demonstration of a transition through nine orders of magnitude, in which a full exchange of a promiscuous activity for the primary activity was seen, the overall geometry of the protein was unchanged, and, although substrates had changed, the fundamental active site strategy stayed the same. ,,, “Modern neo-Darwinism and neutral evolutionary treatments,” remark Leonard Bogarad and Michael Deem, “fail to explain satisfactorily the generation of the diversity of life found on our planet.” It is not that they did not evolve, they say, but that “... most theoretical treatments of evolution consider only the limited point-mutation events that form the basis of these theories.” Their sober conclusion is that “point mutation alone is incapable of evolving systems with substantially new protein folds.”60,,, “In fact, to our knowledge,” Tawfik and Tóth-Petróczy write, “no macromutations ... that gave birth to novel proteins have yet been identified.”69 http://inference-review.com/article/the-new-view-of-proteins Chase Nelson At Inference Review: Reconstructing Ancestral Proteins - August 13, 2021 Excerpt: The deepest questions about the origins of novel gene families remain shrouded in mystery. https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/chase-nelson-at-inference-review-reconstructing-ancestral-proteins/
bornagain77
January 14, 2022
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BA77 @ 32
As Dr. Craig put it, “Every time you say, “Hey, that’s not fair! That’s wrong; that’s an injustice! You affirm your belief in the existence of objective morals.” Yet “if God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist.” Premise 1: If God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist. Premise 2: Objective moral values and duties do exist. Conclusion: Therefore, God exists.
This is one of Craig's most misleading sophistries. Craig knows full well that objective morality is not sourced in "God." Thus premise (1) is not true. It would take me a while to find it, but a few years back, Craig ran a post on his blog showing that he understands the distinction between absolute morality and objective morality. This first is "God-given," the second is a human construction that has evolved as human cultures have evolved. Craig says he eschews the more proper term "absolute morality" because it causes confusion with the terms "objective," "relative" and "subjective" morality. This is a dodge, but that is for another debate. God's or absolute morality is (1) universal, (2) imposed by divine fiat, (3) non-negotiable and (4) applied without exceptions, in other words absolute. (Duh...) On the other hand, objective morality is (1) culture specific, (2) imposed either explicitly or implicitly, by human authorities, such as kings, churches, despots, legislatures, direct democracy, etc. (3) subject to compromise, or, in extreme cases, displacement through revolt and (4) subject to mitigation in appropriate cases. Christian apologetics is stuck in this quagmire, and it is really getting annoying watching the enterprise hopelessly spinning its wheels throwing around inane bromides dressed up as syllogisms.chuckdarwin
January 14, 2022
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@JVL: In order to find out whether the problem is due to your IP address, you could use the Tor browser or a VPN.AndyClue
January 14, 2022
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JVL Kairosfocus, Asauber, Jerry, and Viola Lee: I am an experienced computer and web user;
You forgot to mention about experienced troll.Lieutenant Commander Data
January 14, 2022
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Kairosfocus, Asauber, Jerry, and Viola Lee: I am an experienced computer and web user; I have tried every means I can think of to make sure it's not my system which is causing the problem. I just tried again, by the way, and more than a week after I first got stopped from posting on: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/if-math-is-a-reality-atheism-is-dead/ I am still not allowed to post. Because I've tried different computers and different browsers it's either because of my account or my domain/IP that is causing the issue. Here is part of the 'error' I get:
A potentially unsafe operation has been detected in your request to this site Your access to this service has been limited. (HTTP response code 403) If you think you have been blocked in error, contact the owner of this site for assistance.
Clearly implying that the cause must be something the site owner can do something about. Hence I've been complaining in hope. Also, the particular WordPress plugin or extension that is generating this 'error' is called WordFence and quoting again from the error message:
About Wordfence Wordfence is a security plugin installed on over 4 million WordPress sites. The owner of this site is using Wordfence to manage access to their site. You can also read the documentation to learn about Wordfence's blocking tools, or visit wordfence.com to learn more about Wordfence.
Again, the clear inference is that the site owner can do something about the situation. From the website wordfence.com:
Advance Manual Blocking: Quickly and efficiently block entire malicious networks and any human or robot activity that indicates suspicious intentions based on pattern matching and IP ranges
So, it is possible to configure WordFence to block human activity. Like posting? From a particular IP? I am quite sure that Kairosfocus is being completely honest and sincere; I am quite familiar with the ways he handles situations he finds disruptive or counterproductive (having crossed his lines a few times in the past) so I know he has nothing to apologise for. In fact, I give him credit for taking the time to respond. Perhaps it's just my IP but then why aren't I blocked site-wide? If it's my browser then, again, why isn't the problem site-wide? If the problem is coming from WordFence, as seems clear, then perhaps it would be good for the person who actually maintains the site via WordPress (through a browser or an app, I've done both) to look at the WordFence settings and see why such a thing is happening, why for some people but not others and, in my case, only on one thread. If it's an error then it could happen to anyone and should be corrected. I would think someone would want to look into that.JVL
January 14, 2022
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JVL, just for record, I cannot ban you from my threads using some thread ban button that does not exist. I have not seen comments from you and invisibly removed them or whatever such a manually operated ban would look like. KFkairosfocus
January 14, 2022
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JVL accused me of wanting to score points as my motivation for commenting here. I think repeated crying about censorship is an attempt at point-scoring for JVL. Andrewasauber
January 14, 2022
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I find it ironic that someone who understands the mathematics of Einstein’s relativity is befuddled by a web browser?jerry
January 14, 2022
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JVL, given that he is convinced that his inability to comment on kf's thread is not a bug with his system, comments for several posts now on how unfair it is that he is being, (supposedly), blocked from commenting on kf's thread. He goes so far as to complain that ID proponents 'just don't care' that he is supposedly being treated unfairly. But wait a cotton picking minute, JVL is a Darwinist. A dogmatic Darwinist at that. And as such JVL must hold that, (morally speaking), "some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice."
In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” - Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
JVL adamantly wants justice, i.e. he adamantly wants 'moral fairness', yet JVL's own Darwinian worldview affords him no such luxury as 'moral fairness'. In fact, apparently unbeknownst to JVL, every time he himself cries 'it is unfair', he is in fact providing evidence for the existence objective morals and therefore providing evidence for the existence for God. As Dr. Craig put it, "Every time you say, "Hey, that's not fair! That's wrong; that's an injustice! You affirm your belief in the existence of objective morals." Yet "if God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist."
Premise 1: If God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist. Premise 2: Objective moral values and duties do exist. Conclusion: Therefore, God exists. - The Moral Argument – drcraigvideos - video https://youtu.be/OxiAikEk2vU?t=224
Darwinian atheists, with their reductive materialistic framework, are forced to claim that objective morality doesn't actually exist and that it is 'nothing but' an illusion,
Why Alex Rosenberg — and a Number of Other Philosophers — Are Wrong Just about Everything: A Commentary on Scientistic Reductionism - Massimo Pigliucci - 2019 Abstract There is a pernicious tendency these days among some philosophers to engage in a “nothing but” attitude about important questions. According to this attitude, consciousness, volition, reason, and morality are “illusions,” “nothing but” the epiphenomena of specific neural processes. Alex Rosenberg is a particularly good (though by no means the only) illustration of this problem,,,, https://journal.equinoxpub.com/JCH/article/view/18516
Again, Darwinian atheists are forced to deny to reality of objective morality. And although there are a number of physical evidences that can be brought to bear on the fact that morality is objectively real, (I will hold off on listing the specific physical evidences right now), I find the fact that it is impossible for atheists themselves to live their lives as if objective morality does not actually exist to be one of the most powerful evidence for the existence of objective morality, and therefore to be another powerful evidence for the existence of God. As JVL's own protestations of 'moral unfairness' make clear, it is impossible for atheists to consistently live their own lives as if objective morality does not actually exist. As the following article succinctly states the situation for atheists: “Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath.”
The Heretic – Who is Thomas Nagel and why are so many of his fellow academics condemning him? – March 25, 2013 Excerpt:,,,Fortunately, materialism is never translated into life as it’s lived. As colleagues and friends, husbands and mothers, wives and fathers, sons and daughters, materialists never put their money where their mouth is. Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath. http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/heretic_707692.html?page=3
And in the following article Nancy Pearcey quotes a professor emeritus at MIT who states that he does not treat his children as Darwinian 'machines' but instead treats them with "unconditional love".
Darwin’s Robots: When Evolutionary Materialists Admit that Their Own Worldview Fails – Nancy Pearcey – April 23, 2015 Excerpt: When I teach these concepts in the classroom, an example my students find especially poignant is Flesh and Machines by Rodney Brooks, professor emeritus at MIT. Brooks writes that a human being is nothing but a machine — a “big bag of skin full of biomolecules” interacting by the laws of physics and chemistry. In ordinary life, of course, it is difficult to actually see people that way. But, he says, “When I look at my children, I can, when I force myself, … see that they are machines.” Is that how he treats them, though? Of course not: “That is not how I treat them…. I interact with them on an entirely different level. They have my unconditional love, the furthest one might be able to get from rational analysis.” Certainly if what counts as “rational” is a materialist worldview in which humans are machines, then loving your children is irrational. It has no basis within Brooks’s worldview. It sticks out of his box. How does he reconcile such a heart-wrenching cognitive dissonance? He doesn’t. Brooks ends by saying, “I maintain two sets of inconsistent beliefs.” He has given up on any attempt to reconcile his theory with his experience. He has abandoned all hope for a unified, logically consistent worldview. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/04/when_evolutiona095451.html
Even Richard Dawkins himself honestly admitted that it would be quote unquote ‘intolerable’ for him to live his life as if his atheistic materialism were actually true and as if there were no moral accountability for what people do.
Who wrote Richard Dawkins’s new book? – October 28, 2006 Excerpt: Dawkins: What I do know is that what it feels like to me, and I think to all of us, we don’t feel determined. We feel like blaming people for what they do or giving people the credit for what they do. We feel like admiring people for what they do.,,, Manzari: But do you personally see that as an inconsistency in your views? Dawkins: I sort of do. Yes. But it is an inconsistency that we sort of have to live with otherwise life would be intolerable. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/10/who_wrote_richard_dawkinss_new002783.html
This impossibility for atheists to live their lives consistently as if atheistic materialism is actually true is powerful evidence that the reductive materialistic framework of Darwinian evolution cannot possibly be true. Specifically, if it is impossible for you to live your life consistently as if atheistic materialism were actually true, then atheistic materialism cannot possibly reflect reality as it really is but atheistic materialism must instead be based on a delusion.
Existential Argument against Atheism – November 1, 2013 by Jason Petersen 1. If a worldview is true then you should be able to live consistently with that worldview. 2. Atheists are unable to live consistently with their worldview. 3. If you can’t live consistently with an atheist worldview then the worldview does not reflect reality. 4. If a worldview does not reflect reality then that worldview is a delusion. 5. If atheism is a delusion then atheism cannot be true. Conclusion: Atheism is false. http://answersforhope.com/existential-argument-atheism/
Verse:
Romans 1:20 For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse;
bornagain77
January 14, 2022
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JVL, please recall my comments to you on peculiar cases on particular threads or even comments. WP is imperfect software and there are plug ins and other packages involved; we work with what we have and updates are notorious for breaking things, BTW as at yesterday yet another version increment was pending. Weird things can and do happen with software and especially when the software keeps on being updated from source. Were you actually banned, that would take effect site-wide. KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2022
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JS, ad hominem nonsense showing malice. As has been long since advised, UD has not granted banning from a given thread by technical means. Technical bans are at site level, and are generally for cause of trollish, willfully insistent trollish conduct. KFkairosfocus
January 13, 2022
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JVL. I assume you have cleared your caches and tried different browsers?Viola Lee
January 13, 2022
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Authors of any OP can ban people posting on their threads. Is it always the same author on threads that you can’t post? Are his initials KF? ?Joe Schooner
January 13, 2022
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Joe Schooner: I honestly think that it is just a quirk with your computer and WordPress. I have been critical of KF’s nonsense for a couple months and I have never had a problem commenting. Well, how is it that I can't post a comment to a particular thread after days and days but I can to other ones? I get a site-generated 403 error generated by a Word Press extension designed for security? Why is is wrong to query the site admins until they figure it out? Does it happen to you? Does it happen to you for days and days only on particular threads? I get that nobody really cares but how do you know it's not censorship?JVL
January 13, 2022
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Asauber: I wouldn’t know who to check with, and I consider it too small of a problem on the scale of things to be concerned. So, essentially, you just don't care enough to do anything. Got it.JVL
January 13, 2022
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Well, no surprise that no one cares at all that I have been blocked from commenting on a thread for no discernible reason. I have tried all the normal solutions and they didn’t work.
JVL, I honestly think that it is just a quirk with your computer and Wordpress. I have been critical of KF’s nonsense for a couple months and I have never had a problem commenting.Joe Schooner
January 13, 2022
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"Okay. But checking to see if I’m being censored is not constructive? The people who replied to my posts not getting replies from me is okay? Stifling dialogue is fine with you?" JVL, I wouldn't know who to check with, and I consider it too small of a problem on the scale of things to be concerned. Andrewasauber
January 13, 2022
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Asauber: ’m not suggesting or demanding that you care about ID proponents commenting on blogs. I myself don’t care enough about them to complain, that’s for sure. Okay. You see, complaining to a brick wall is not productive. I’m much more interested in doing something constructive in realms where I can do something constructive. Engaging with you is sometimes constructive, therefore, here am I. Okay. But checking to see if I'm being censored is not constructive? The people who replied to my posts not getting replies from me is okay? Stifling dialogue is fine with you? If you think engaging is sometimes constructive then you should support that happening and decry any hint of censorship. Yes?JVL
January 13, 2022
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"So, why should I care if ID proponents are shut out from commenting on unguided evolutionary blogs? I’m just a commenter, what can I do?" JVL, I'm not suggesting or demanding that you care about ID proponents commenting on blogs. I myself don't care enough about them to complain, that's for sure. You see, complaining to a brick wall is not productive. I'm much more interested in doing something constructive in realms where I can do something constructive. Engaging with you is sometimes constructive, therefore, here am I. Andrewasauber
January 13, 2022
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Asauber: I don’t. But I don’t know this is a case of censorship, and I am just a commenter here. so I have no ability to do anything about it, if it is. You could ask questions. You could try and see if it's true. But you won't because you don't care. So, why should I care if ID proponents are shut out from commenting on unguided evolutionary blogs? I'm just a commenter, what can I do? Should any of us care or try and change things? Do you care? Will you make an attempt to change things?JVL
January 13, 2022
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"So, you agree with censorship?" JVL, I don't. But I don't know if this is a case of censorship, and I am just a commenter here, so I have no ability to do anything about it, if it is. Andrewasauber
January 13, 2022
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Asauber: I’m going to entertain myself by exchanging some comments with you. So, you agree with censorship?JVL
January 13, 2022
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"And what are you going to do? Anything? Or just try and score points as usual?" JVL, I'm going to entertain myself by exchanging some comments with you. Andrewasauber
January 13, 2022
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Asauber: I’m commenting just to demonstrate how wrong you are again. ? And what are you going to do? Anything? Or just try and score points as usual?JVL
January 13, 2022
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"I bet no one will even comment. No one cares. Figures." JVL, I'm commenting just to demonstrate how wrong you are again. ;) Andrewasauber
January 13, 2022
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Well, no surprise that no one cares at all that I have been blocked from commenting on a thread for no discernible reason. I have tried all the normal solutions and they didn't work. Unless someone can show a clear and documentable cause why shouldn't I assume it's a case of censorship? I bet no one will even comment. No one cares. Figures.JVL
January 13, 2022
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Since Darwinists, by and large and as far as I can tell, ignore the inductive methodology of Francis Bacon, (i.e. specifically ignoring the ‘principle of falsification’ by experimentation), that lies behind the scientific method itself, it is clear that Darwin’s theory is to be classified, far more, as being a pseudo-science, even as a religion for atheists, than it is to be classified as a hard and testable science. As Robert Marks and company have demonstrated, Darwinian evolution simply does not have a 'hard core' that can be tested,
Top Ten Questions and Objections to ‘Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics’ – Robert J. Marks II – June 12, 2017 Excerpt: “There exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. Hard sciences are built on foundations of mathematics or definitive simulations. Examples include electromagnetics, Newtonian mechanics, geophysics, relativity, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, optics, and many areas in biology. Those hoping to establish Darwinian evolution as a hard science with a model have either failed or inadvertently cheated. These models contain guidance mechanisms to land the airplane squarely on the target runway despite stochastic wind gusts. Not only can the guiding assistance be specifically identified in each proposed evolution model, its contribution to the success can be measured, in bits, as active information.,,,”,,, “there exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. According to our current understanding, there never will be.,,,” https://evolutionnews.org/2017/06/top-ten-questions-and-objections-to-introduction-to-evolutionary-informatics/
Moreover, the main presupposition that Darwinian atheists simply refuse to ever let be challenged by experimental evidence is their main presupposition of Atheistic Naturalism itself. Yet, ironically, if, for the sake of argument, we falsely assume Atheistic Naturalism as being true, (as atheistic naturalists are intent on us doing), then that false presupposition of theirs leads to the catastrophic epistemological failure of, not only of science itself, but also of our entire conception of reality itself.,
Basically, because of reductive materialism (and/or methodological naturalism), the atheistic materialist (who believes Darwinian evolution to be true) is forced to claim that he is merely a ‘neuronal illusion’ (Coyne, Dennett, etc..), who has the illusion of free will (Harris), who has unreliable, (i.e. illusory), beliefs about reality (Plantinga), who has illusory perceptions of reality (Hoffman), who, since he has no real time empirical evidence substantiating his grandiose claims, must make up illusory “just so stories” with the illusory, and impotent, ‘designer substitute’ of natural selection (Behe, Gould, Sternberg), so as to ‘explain away’ the appearance (i.e. the illusion) of design (Crick, Dawkins), and who also must make up illusory meanings and purposes for his life since the hopelessness of the nihilism inherent in his atheistic worldview is simply too much for him to bear (Weikart), and who must also hold morality to be subjective and illusory since he has rejected God (Craig, Kreeft). Who, since beauty cannot be grounded within his materialistic worldview, must also hold beauty itself to be illusory (Darwin). Bottom line, nothing is truly real in the atheist’s worldview, least of all, beauty, morality, meaning and purposes for life.,,, April 18, 2021 – Defense of each claim https://uncommondescent.com/philosophy/philosopher-mary-midgeley-1919-2018-on-scientism/#comment-728595
Thus, although the Darwinian Atheist and/or Methodological Naturalist may firmly, and falsely, believe that he is on the terra firma of science (in his appeal, even demand, for naturalistic explanations over and above God as a viable explanation), the fact of the matter is that, when examining the details of his materialistic/naturalistic worldview, it is found that Darwinists/Atheists themselves are adrift in an ocean of fantasy and imagination with no discernible anchor for reality to grab on to. It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science, indeed more antagonistic to reality itself, than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be.
2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
So thus in conclusion, and in short, Atheistic Naturalists in general, and Darwinian atheists in particular, have, basically, 'broken science' by forsaking the inductive methodology of Francis Bacon and insisting that their 'deductive' presupposition of Atheistic Naturalism cannot ever be challenged and/or overturned, by empirical evidence and/or observation. Yet again, and to repeat, It would be hard to fathom a worldview more antagonistic to modern science, indeed more antagonistic to reality itself, than Atheistic materialism and/or methodological naturalism have turned out to be. Science, at least how atheists practice it, is broken, and atheists are the one who have broken it, and to fix science, at least how they practice it, it is necessary to throw out none other than atheistic naturalism itself as a supposedly unquestionable (deductive) presupposition. Verse:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
bornagain77
January 13, 2022
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