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At Evolution News: Günter Bechly repudiates “Professor Dave’s” attacks against ID

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Günter Bechly, Senior Fellow of the Center for Science and Culture, addresses the off-base accusations made against ID and the Discovery Institute.

Dave Farina is an atheist American YouTuber who runs a channel called Professor Dave Explains with almost two million subscribers.

The clichés and misrepresentations Farina recycles about intelligent design are beyond tired. Still, those new to the debate might find it helpful to see Farina’s false claims debunked.

Farina seems more interested in caricaturing those he disagrees with than understanding them.

Three Major Problems 

Farina also thinks that intelligent design theory “cannot be validated as real science because it does not explain or predict anything.” Here are three major problems with this statement:

Who defines what qualifies as “real science”? It is certainly not Dave Farina. It is not judges in court rooms. And it is not even the scientists themselves who define “science.” Reasonably, it is philosophers of science who address this question. But Farina seems to be totally ignorant of the fact that there is no consensus among philosophers of science about a demarcation criterion that could reliably distinguish science from non-science. Any criterion yet suggested, including Karl Popper’s criterion of falsifiability, either excludes too much (e.g., scientific fields like string theory or evolutionary biology) or includes too much (e.g., homeopathy or parapsychology).

Of course, intelligent design has explanatory power. Otherwise, we could not even explain the existence of Romeo and Juliet by the intelligent agency of William Shakespeare. There is no doubt that the designing activity of an intelligent agent is a perfectly valid explanation for complex specified patterns. The only question under debate is whether such patterns are confined to the realm of human cultural artifacts or if they are also found in nature. But this question should not be decided by dogmatic a priorirestrictions of certain worldviews that do not allow for design explanations whatever the evidence might be, but should rather follow the evidence wherever it leads. It is an empirical question to be decided by the data.

It is simply false that intelligent design does not predict anything. Indeed, this is yet another common stereotype that has been refuted so many times by ID proponents that any further use of this argument can be based only on a total ignorance of the facts (or perhaps deliberate lying, but I prefer not to apply that interpretation). Stephen Meyer (2009) included in his book Signature in the Cell a whole chapter with a dozen predictions inspired by intelligent design theory. These are often very precise and easily falsifiable, for example: “No undirected process will demonstrate the capacity to generate 500 bits of new [specified] information starting from a nonbiological source.” Just write a computer simulation that achieves this, without smuggling the information in through a backdoor, and you can claim victory over a core prediction of intelligent design.

Evolution News

Dr. Bechly addresses numerous additional misfires attempted by Professor Dave. With such a voluble spray of baseless accusations coming from someone like Professor Dave, it can be helpful to be reminded of the proverb, “Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.” (Proverbs 26:2)

Comments
JVL:
What does ID predict that we can check and verify?
The test for Intelligent Design was to peer inside the black box that is a living cell. And if we see: 1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design. 2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity. 3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity. 4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems. and “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” Not my fault that you are too stupid to understand that.ET
June 16, 2022
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JHolo:
Being insulted by angry people who haven’t gotten past the anal stage of development isn’t a “beating”.
You just described the minions of Peaceful ScienceET
June 16, 2022
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Bill Cole: ID proposes a mind as the mechanism that can account for the observation. The test or the mechanism is whether a mind can arrange parts. This is indeed very testable and predictable as we are communicating by arranged abstract symbols or parts. Can you provide an objective, repeatable, observer independent test or experiment that shows that there is a mind behind the development of life on earth? A test that tests a prediction of your assertion that there is a mind behind the process. We're not just talking about any old situation here; we're talking about the development of life on Earth. Let's stick with that shall we?JVL
June 16, 2022
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ET: And if those feeble-minded pukes ever show up here, they will get the beating. Ooo, I'm scared now. What a great example of scientific argumentation and intelligent reasoning. Exactly what I have been telling you. But thanks for proving that you are a willfully ignorant coward. Can you give us an example of a repeatable, objective, observer independent test or experiment that supports a prediction made by ID that is in opposition to ones offered by unguided evolutionary theory. You say you understand science. You say you follow Newton's rules. Well, do what Newton did then: Come up with a hypothesis, provide an objective, observer independent situation or test that we can use to check a prediction of that hypothesis and let us try and repeat and scrutinise the result. If you can. If you're so good at science it should be easy for you to do that. The test for Intelligent Design was to peer inside the black box that is a living cell. And if we see: Make a prediction and provide a test that we can execute, repeatably. A test that is not just confirming your disputed assertions. A test which provides a result that is different than what unguided evolutionary theory proposes. You just trotting out the same old justifications is NOT the same thing as proposing the outcome of a particular situation or set of conditions and the reaction of a life form. You know that. But you just keep dancing really fast and hope we give up. Provide a repeatable, objective, observer independent (your criteria fails here because not every one agrees on your biased view) test or experiment which gives a result predicted by ID and runs counter to the prediction offered by unguided evolutionary theory. You just pointing at DNA (and some undetected, undefined extra programming) and saying: hey, that looks designed to me therefore I win is NOT the same thing. Newton got that. He knew he had to come up with some new mathematics that successfully modelled the situation he was trying to explain. Einstein's theories predicted phenomena that no one had even observed yet. And he did so correctly. What does ID predict that we can check and verify? Something objective, measurable, repeatable. Not just you saying it must be true. You have to do better than that.JVL
June 16, 2022
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ET: And if those feeble-minded pukes ever show up here, they will get the beating.
Being insulted by angry people who haven’t gotten past the anal stage of development isn’t a “beating”. It is just sadly pathetic for the person doing the “beating”.JHolo
June 16, 2022
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Unguided evolution only explains genetic diseases and deformities. The reason why the paper “Waiting for TWO Mutations” was written is because there isn’t any actual evidence for unguided evolution besides genetic diseases and deformities. JVL:
What does ID predict?
Exactly what I have been telling you. But thanks for proving that you are a willfully ignorant coward.ET
June 16, 2022
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JVL
But my question is: can you provide a repeatable, observer independent test or experiment which ID predicts an outcome that is different from that offered by unguided evolution? Yes or no?
You're paradigm by this yes or no question is how the properties of matter are used to make predictive models. We can characterize electro magnetism or gravity and create a predictive model. ID proposes a mind as the mechanism that can account for the observation. The test or the mechanism is whether a mind can arrange parts. This is indeed very testable and predictable as we are communicating by arranged abstract symbols or parts.bill cole
June 16, 2022
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JVL:
You are not answering my question, deliberately it seems.
You are just too stupid to understand the answer. That is because you are just a scientifically illiterate troll. The test for Intelligent Design was to peer inside the black box that is a living cell. And if we see: 1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design. 2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity. 3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity. 4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.ET
June 16, 2022
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The test for Intelligent Design was to peer inside the black box that is a living cell. 1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design. 2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity. 3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity. 4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.ET
June 16, 2022
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ET: You are just stupid: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” You are not answering my question, deliberately it seems. Either that or you're just stupid. Which is it? I am not asking you why you infer design! Again: can you provide an objective, repeatable, observer independent test that give an result predicted by ID but not by unguided evolutionary theory? That's what Newton did. That's what Einstein did. They proposed an explanation and then said: if my theory is correct you will see this and that instead of other things under certain conditions. Can you do the same with ID? Yes or no? Unguided evolution only explains genetic diseases and deformities. The reason why the paper “Waiting for TWO Mutations” was written is because there isn’t any actual evidence for unguided evolution besides genetic diseases and deformities. What does ID predict? What test or experiment can we set up to show that a prediction of ID is repeatable and observer independent? Can you provide such a test or experiment? Yes or no? That said, if the experiment was to show how many parts some biological system or structure required, Behe laid out the Design criteria. Sigh. Can you provide an objective, repeatable, observer independent test or experiment which fulfils a prediction of ID which is different from the prediction offered by unguided evolution? Yes or no? This is not like your gainsaying of any reference to a scientific theory of evolution provided to you. It's been tried and you just deny, deny, deny. This has to do with you not even being able to provide any kind of objective, observer independent, repeatable test of ID's predictive power. You've said absolutely nothing. You keep trying to duck and dodge and push the argument off onto some other topic. We've all noticed. You haven't answered the question. Are we to take it that you can't? That seems like the most likely situation at this point.JVL
June 16, 2022
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JVL:
But my question is: can you provide a repeatable, observer independent test or experiment which ID predicts an outcome that is different from that offered by unguided evolution?
You have already admitted that any experiment for unguided evolution requires millions of years. And the reason why the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" was written is because there isn't any actual evidence for unguided evolution. Not when it comes to producing something like a bacterial flagellum, anyway. That said, if the experiment was to show how many parts some biological system or structure required, Behe laid out the Design criteria.ET
June 16, 2022
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Kairosfocus: you are confirming my suspicion. You have a test in hand passed trillions of times but that will never be enough, oh on some excuse we ignore it and demand a different, novel test. I take it that you cannot provide an objective, repeatable, observer independent test or experiment that gives an outcome predicted by ID but not by unguided evolution. Why didn't you just say so? A test is different that pointing to more cases of your assertion. But you don't seem to understand that.JVL
June 16, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
He’s been getting a bit of a beating from the other regulars at Peaceful Science.
In what way? No one there has ever presented any evidence that evolution by means of blind and mindless processes can do anything other than produce genetic diseases and deformities. And if those feeble-minded pukes ever show up here, they will get the beating.ET
June 16, 2022
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Bill Cole: From this observation using Behe’s method we can infer design. But my question is: can you provide a repeatable, observer independent test or experiment which ID predicts an outcome that is different from that offered by unguided evolution? Yes or no?JVL
June 16, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
There are harder things to explain than the origin of multicellularity with plenty of existant transitional forms around currently that fit the evolutionary picture.
Your continued equivocation is duly noted. And all evolution by means of blind and mindless processes can explain are genetic diseases and deformities. Also, being a metazoan is much more than multicellularity.
I get that ID both explains nothing and everything,...
You are willfully ignorant of ID.
But where do you see yourself in another twenty or so years.
Still far ahead, scientifically, than evolution by means of blind and mindless processes. Your alleged scientific mainstream can't even formulate a scientific theory of evolution. They don't even know what determines biological form. They have nothing but delusions and promissory notes. And all they have for support are clueless tools like you.ET
June 16, 2022
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@ JHolo Bill Cole, see comment 481. He's possibly Michael Behe's greatest fan. He's been getting a bit of a beating from the other regulars at Peaceful Science.Fred Hickson
June 16, 2022
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Querius: Really? So how do you prove something is useless junk? So far, all I’ve seen is the mighty shield of ignorance, namely that if we don’t know what something does, then it must be junk. Aside from you not answering my base question . . . Some sequences are not even transcribed so they cannot have an effect on development or growth. Dr Moran has published a widely distributed list of things that someone would need to address regarding 'junk' DNA; I assume you've seen it? If you find an object in your “junk” drawer, do you immediately throw it away if you don’t know what it’s for or you investigate what it might be for? Again, since you're avoiding my question I'll refer back to Dr Moran's list. Apparently none that can get by your a priori assumptions of “junk.” There’s an accumulation of functions now attributed to “junk” DNA that falsify your irrational position. How much of the human genome once thought to be 'junk' has now been shown to have an important function? I'm not saying that some of the transcribed sections will be found to be important but I think it's pretty clear that a lot will not. So, no, you have not falsified my position because you noticed that some sections do have a function.JVL
June 16, 2022
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Evolution by means of blind and mindless processes can’t account for metazoans.
There are harder things to explain than the origin of multicellularity with plenty of existant transitional forms around currently that fit the evolutionary picture. I get that ID both explains nothing and everything, depending who is promoting it to which audience. But where do you see yourself in another twenty or so years. Still at ground zero still complaining the scientific mainstream is ignoring you? I suspect so.Fred Hickson
June 16, 2022
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FH: Hi Bill Are you taking a bit of an R & R break from Peaceful Science?
Who is Bill?JHolo
June 16, 2022
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Why is it that no one can link to this alleged scientific theory of evolution? It's as if it doesn't exist!ET
June 16, 2022
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JHolo, Fred and JVL are proud to be equivocating cowards.ET
June 16, 2022
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Hi Bill Are you taking a bit of an R & R break from Peaceful Science?Fred Hickson
June 16, 2022
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Fred, buy a vowel. Tiktaalik doesn't have anything to do with evolution by means of blind and mindless processes. Evolution by means of blind and mindless processes can't account for metazoans.ET
June 16, 2022
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Evolutionary theory predicts that changes in environmental conditions can result in local extinction and reproductive separation and isolation of sub-populations.JHolo
June 16, 2022
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Unguided evolution only explains genetic diseases and deformities. The reason why the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" was written is because there isn't any actual evidence for unguided evolution besides genetic diseases and deformities.ET
June 16, 2022
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Tiktaalik. Why did Shubin know where to look? Another evolutionary prediction confirmed.Fred Hickson
June 16, 2022
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JVL:
So, you claim you have proven a negative and eliminated things other than intelligent design but you cannot provide a test or experiment the outcome of which is predicted by ID and is different from the prediction offered by unguided evolutionary theory?
You are just stupid: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.”ET
June 16, 2022
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AS & Q though there is a dictionary meaning of presumption that fits, it tends to suggest blind a priori, I would avoid the word. KFkairosfocus
June 16, 2022
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Evolutionary theory predicts that new antibiotics will be effective for a period of time before antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria arise. How does ID predict this?JHolo
June 16, 2022
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JVL, you are confirming my suspicion. You have a test in hand passed trillions of times but that will never be enough, oh on some excuse we ignore it and demand a different, novel test. KFkairosfocus
June 16, 2022
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