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At Evolution News: Günter Bechly repudiates “Professor Dave’s” attacks against ID

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Günter Bechly, Senior Fellow of the Center for Science and Culture, addresses the off-base accusations made against ID and the Discovery Institute.

Dave Farina is an atheist American YouTuber who runs a channel called Professor Dave Explains with almost two million subscribers.

The clichés and misrepresentations Farina recycles about intelligent design are beyond tired. Still, those new to the debate might find it helpful to see Farina’s false claims debunked.

Farina seems more interested in caricaturing those he disagrees with than understanding them.

Three Major Problems 

Farina also thinks that intelligent design theory “cannot be validated as real science because it does not explain or predict anything.” Here are three major problems with this statement:

Who defines what qualifies as “real science”? It is certainly not Dave Farina. It is not judges in court rooms. And it is not even the scientists themselves who define “science.” Reasonably, it is philosophers of science who address this question. But Farina seems to be totally ignorant of the fact that there is no consensus among philosophers of science about a demarcation criterion that could reliably distinguish science from non-science. Any criterion yet suggested, including Karl Popper’s criterion of falsifiability, either excludes too much (e.g., scientific fields like string theory or evolutionary biology) or includes too much (e.g., homeopathy or parapsychology).

Of course, intelligent design has explanatory power. Otherwise, we could not even explain the existence of Romeo and Juliet by the intelligent agency of William Shakespeare. There is no doubt that the designing activity of an intelligent agent is a perfectly valid explanation for complex specified patterns. The only question under debate is whether such patterns are confined to the realm of human cultural artifacts or if they are also found in nature. But this question should not be decided by dogmatic a priorirestrictions of certain worldviews that do not allow for design explanations whatever the evidence might be, but should rather follow the evidence wherever it leads. It is an empirical question to be decided by the data.

It is simply false that intelligent design does not predict anything. Indeed, this is yet another common stereotype that has been refuted so many times by ID proponents that any further use of this argument can be based only on a total ignorance of the facts (or perhaps deliberate lying, but I prefer not to apply that interpretation). Stephen Meyer (2009) included in his book Signature in the Cell a whole chapter with a dozen predictions inspired by intelligent design theory. These are often very precise and easily falsifiable, for example: “No undirected process will demonstrate the capacity to generate 500 bits of new [specified] information starting from a nonbiological source.” Just write a computer simulation that achieves this, without smuggling the information in through a backdoor, and you can claim victory over a core prediction of intelligent design.

Evolution News

Dr. Bechly addresses numerous additional misfires attempted by Professor Dave. With such a voluble spray of baseless accusations coming from someone like Professor Dave, it can be helpful to be reminded of the proverb, “Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.” (Proverbs 26:2)

Comments
One! The answer to your question, Upright Biped, (now you have clarified) is one.Fred Hickson
June 14, 2022
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He was only here to insult me personally. From him to me, he had (and has) that personal need. That’s all he wanted, that’s certainly all he got.
He said something similarly about me, I am not trying to say I am as knowledgeable as you are on this. That’s obviously not true. But he used the same technique.jerry
June 14, 2022
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Silver Asiatic: The constraint is that which directs the mRNA to specify a certain amino acid and not something else. It’s not something inherent in the structure of the mRNA. The constraint (the specifier) comes from a molecule outside of the mRNA. Information is communicated which constrains the aaRS to a specific formulation. So, the question is how many of these are required for the aaRS to function?
Hello SA, Here are a couple things I thought I might point out. There are roughly 20 different amino acids that make up the overwhelming bulk of all the various proteins found in the living kingdom. It is the sequential arrangement of those amino acids in each protein that gives each protein its own unique physical properties (enabling it to do whatever it does inside the cell, making Life physically possible). The cell reads the sequence of codons in DNA in order to construct each of the these proteins with the correct sequence of amino acids. Each of those individual amino acids has to be specified in the genetic memory in order to be assembled in the correct order. That is accomplished by using two physical objects — a token and a constraint. The token comes in the form of three bases in a “codon” of DNA or RNA. It is then the job of the constraint to establish a relationship between an individual codon and the particular amino acid it is intended to specify within the system. It is important the remember how this takes place. In 1953, physicist Francis Crick and biologist James Watson famously discovered the sequential memory (the sequence of bases) in the DNA molecule. This set off a race to understand how the sequence of bases in DNA actually specified the sequence of amino acids in a protein. Shortly thereafter, Crick had compared the size and structure of the base sequence and determined that it was not possible for the amino acids to be ordered directly on the base sequence, and so there was a grand mystery as to how this all took place. Two years later in 1955, Crick began to develop a particular solution to the mystery, which Sydney Brenner nicknamed the “adapter hypothesis” prior to it being presented to a group of scientists called the RNA Tie Club at Cambridge. Crick reasoned that there would be a set of 20 proteins and 20 “adapter” molecules at work in the system. Each of the adapters would carry with it a short complimentary sequence of bases (later called the “anti-codon”) that would match up directly to the codons along the genetic memory. It would then be the job of the 20 complex proteins to perform a specific kind of double recognition. In other words, each protein would recognize a specific amino acid, and then attach it only to the adapters that had the correct sequence of bases (the correct anti-codon) for that particular amino acid. The adapters would then carry the amino acids directly to the site of protein construction and their amino acid cargo would then be assembled in the order dictated by the sequence of codons in the genetic memory. These 20 complex proteins are the aaRS (aminoacyl tRNA synthetase) — the constraints in the gene system. By performing their double recognition, they are the molecules in biology that establish the genetic code — they establish (constrain) the relationships between the (codon) symbols and their (amino acid) referents. From the literature, I have come to know the aaRS being referred to as “non-holonomic” constraints. I believe this is generally a systematics term, basically referring to a physical system that can deliver multiple alternative outcomes. By selecting any particular alternative, the system does not become physically limited (as some systems do) from delivering any other alternative – a rather apt description of the gene system and the constraints that make it physically possible to function as it does. … So these are the things that Fred must avoid at all costs. I ask him how many aaRS had to be in place in order to physically specify and construct an aaRS from genetic memory. He then he did (and will always do) anything and everything to avoid that question. He starts this charade by telling us gleefully that RNA doesn’t have or need all the parts to specify a protein, then tells us, nonetheless, that this same system started spitting them out anyway, one by one. Surprise surprise, surprise. I went back in the comments history and noticed that Fred has actually been trying to call me out for weeks here. (“Upright Biped Upright Biped Upright Biped”). He even says that I am the only reason he showed up here. I asked him a core question about the gene system and he pisses himself in front of everyone. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fred: The job of aaRSs did not exist in RNA world. Fred: My challenge is to propose the steps that could have taken RNA world to DNA-protein world. UB: How many aaRS does it take to specify and construct an aaRS? Fred: Whaddya mean by how many?!? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - He was only here to insult me personally. From him to me, he had (and has) that personal need. That’s all he wanted, that’s certainly all he got.Upright BiPed
June 14, 2022
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Completely off topic except it refutes Darwinian Evolution. I’m reading/listening to Alex Epstein’s “Fossil Future” and he inadvertently refutes Darwin. I’m not sure he understood what he was doing. In all of history, human beings suffered from one major weakness, according to Epstein. (There are probably others)
That is physical weakness that limited what they could do to get food
Humans barely had enough strength to live. But they did not evolve stronger humans when strength would be an obvious characteristic leading to more offspring. So a good question for the pro Darwin commenters. Why? Aside: highly recommend Epstein’s book. He demolishes the climate change advocates. With facts and morals.jerry
June 14, 2022
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Why SETI is relevant- SETI attempts to detect intelligent design without knowing the designers.ET
June 14, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
Anyway, UB, you raised the totally irrelevant though intriguing subject of SETI.
It isn't irrelevant. You are irrelevant. Weird how Fred "argues" just like Alan Fox!ET
June 14, 2022
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They [SETI] have criteria for determining artificial from natural. Fred:
Really?
Yes, Fred, they do. As do archaeologists, forensic scientists and other investigative venues. When attacking a strawman of ID, Seth Shostok said:
If SETI were to announce that we're not alone because it had detected a signal, it would be on the basis of artificiality. An endless, sinusoidal signal - a dead simple tone - is not complex; it's artificial. Such a tone just doesn't seem to be generated by natural astrophysical processes. In addition, and unlike other radio emissions produced by the cosmos, such a signal is devoid of the appendages and inefficiencies nature always seems to add
ET
June 14, 2022
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FH, how do people go about distinguishing signal from noise to get to the famed ratio? KFkairosfocus
June 14, 2022
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They [SETI] have criteria for determining artificial from natural.
Really? They're very coy about that on their website. Do you have privileged information? Can you share it?Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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Seversky
Could this mean the Universe is finely-tuned for long-lived geological features?
Being ephemeral, we'll never know. Half seriously, there may be an upper limit to the power of human comprehension. What's the line from H G Wells? . Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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Anyway, UB, you raised the totally irrelevant though intriguing subject of SETI.Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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Upright Biped
Is there any reason that I should expect a response to #399?
How do you manage to be so obscure in just a few words? Try something like: @ [name of commenter] Please respond to [number of comment]Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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. Is there any reason that I should expect a response to #399?Upright BiPed
June 13, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
The transition from RNA world to DNA/RNA/protein world does not need to happen all at once.
It didn't happen at all. There isn't any evidence for any RNA world. Just a desperate need. And DNA based life is impossible without the pre-encoded information for the proteins that counter DNA's instability.
You already have self-sustaining self-replicators.
Once you get to DNA, you need much more than that or you lose the DNA. Your entire scenario exists in a fantasy world. Yours is the fairy tale fallacy.ET
June 13, 2022
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Fred Hickson/407
Only if you are puny ephemeral humans. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/525443481517863305/
Could this mean the Universe is finely-tuned for long-lived geological features?Seversky
June 13, 2022
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And yes, most likely SETI is a futile endeavor. But that isn't the point. They have criteria for determining artificial from natural.ET
June 13, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
There’s cave paintings and plenty of evidence to link them to the humans that lived and died in and around the caves at the time they were executed.
And there are radio signals and plenty of evidence to link them to their causes. Cause-and-effect relationships rule science.
As for SETI, there are no signals to examine and no candidates for who might be transmitting them.
Yet they know what they are looking for. And that is all that matters. They have a criteria. Yes, obviously they would analyze the signal. But if their criteria is met they would clearly sound the alert.ET
June 13, 2022
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The problem with SETI is that radio signals are an impractical means of communication over interstellar distances.
Only if you are puny ephemeral humans. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/525443481517863305/Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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The problem with SETI is that radio signals are an impractical means of communication over interstellar distances. If we assume that we have been transmitting radio signals that have been leaking into space for the last 100 years then they form a bubble that has expanded about a hundred light-years out from Earth, which is next to nothing in a Galaxy 100,000 light years across. One problem is that they get weaker as they spread out. By the time they are a hundred light-years out they may be so attenuated that they are lost in the background radio noise of the Universe. Conversely, assume there may be a civilization 150 light-years out that has been broadcasting for a hundred years. It's going to be another 50 years before those signals get here but when they do, again, we wouldn't know because the signals are probably so weak we can't detect them. They might get a focused beam to reach out further but why would they point one towards us? We have just been able to detect a little over 5,000 extrasolar planets but we have no idea whether any of them support life, let alone advanced intelligent life. Aliens might have detected the planets around our Sun but have no idea if there's any life here. The nearest star to us is Alpha Centauri which is about 4.3 light-years away. If we beamed a signal saying "Hello?" towards it., at best, it's going to be 8.6 years before we can expect a reply, assuming there is anyone there to answer. Imagine trying to administer a Galactic Federation or Empire spread over thousands of light-years using a communications system that slow. If you sent a signal to a nearby star only 150 light-years away, you'd be dead before the message even got there. In practice, we need some form of as-yet-unknown physics, like the sub-space of Star Trek for practical interstellar comms. I'm sure the SETI researchers are well aware of this. They listen out for radio signals because, in the absence of something like sub-space, what else can they -or anyone else - do?Seversky
June 13, 2022
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Fred Hickson The transition from RNA world to DNA/RNA/protein world does not need to happen all at once.
:lol: Avoid eating fruitcakes and definitely circumambulate those fruitcakes with nuts.Lieutenant Commander Data
June 13, 2022
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It’s like finding a cave painting and saying we can’t tell if it’s an artifact.
Not really. There's cave paintings and plenty of evidence to link them to the humans that lived and died in and around the caves at the time they were executed. Heck, they even signed them with handprints. As for SETI, there are no signals to examine and no candidates for who might be transmitting them. I think it is worthwhile that SETI continue searching for odd signals and it will be fun when and if we have a signal to analyse. Till then, there is nothing useful to say. Anthropomorphism is unavoidable but, there we are.Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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The constraint is that which directs the mRNA to specify a certain amino acid and not something else. It’s not something inherent in the structure of the mRNA. The constraint (the specifier) comes from a molecule outside of the mRNA. Information is communicated which constrains the aaRS to a specific formulation. So, the question is how many of these are required for the aaRS to function?
The question has been discussed before (in 2012). The transition from RNA world to DNA/RNA/protein world does not need to happen all at once. You already have self-sustaining self-replicators. Add one amino acid. Add one aaRS. Subtract the redundancy later. It's an easy trap to fall into to think it all had to fall into place at once because we only see what we have today. It's the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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Wow. Talk about blatant denial:
“If the scientists at SETI received a signal that contained encoded content, would it clearly infer the presence of a previously unknown intelligence?”</b?
No.
Why not? It's like finding a cave painting and saying we can't tell if it's an artifact.ET
June 13, 2022
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FH
Let me in the meantime idly speculate on what a constraint in the context of the evolution of aaRSs would be?
The constraint is that which directs the mRNA to specify a certain amino acid and not something else. It's not something inherent in the structure of the mRNA. The constraint (the specifier) comes from a molecule outside of the mRNA. Information is communicated which constrains the aaRS to a specific formulation. So, the question is how many of these are required for the aaRS to function?Silver Asiatic
June 13, 2022
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UB
I am quite happy to allow any interested readers analyze your reasoning for themselves.
Yes, that was quite a display of reasoning there.Silver Asiatic
June 13, 2022
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UB: the systematic capacity of mRNA to carry the specification of an amino acid does not stem from the structure of the RNA, but from the structure of a separate molecule — a non-holonomic constraint, aaRS. Fred: I have no issue with this (…) UB: Aminoacyl tRNA synthetase (aaRS) play one of the critical roles in establishing the description-based system. These are complex proteins that are specified from encoded memory. They did not always exist on earth, which implies that there was once (at some point in the past) the very first time that an aaRS that was successfully synthesized from memory and went on to serve its function. Regardless of what you believe may have come before that event occurred, at that point in time, how many of the other aaRS constraints has to be in place? Fred: What do you mean by “how many of the other aaRS constraints has to be in place?
Again, are you asking me what “how many” means? I am incredulous that you need such clarification.Upright BiPed
June 13, 2022
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Freddy, "Any thoughts on SETI?" Ideally, when they detect something significant, they'll let us know. "aminoacyl tRNA synthetases?" Not my field of study. However, I do find fake-named know-it-all woke activists somewhat interesting. Andrewasauber
June 13, 2022
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Upright BiPed, There doesn't seem to be any end to Fred Hickson's evasions, despite your detailed explanation. Because he can't refute your information, he - Pretends to not understand - Requests clarification - Assert that your points are irrelevant - Uses his ignorance as a shield - Mocks your points as a joke or "parody" - Resorts to speculation and science fantasy - Counters with unsupported assertions ("No. I don’t agree at all and neither would SETI scientists either.") - Feigns fatigue, lack of time, lack of interest, etc. - Hides behind his contrarian responses - Requires your definition of what you mean by "how many" - and so on Then, after you wrestle him to the ground, he simply jumps to a new post and starts over from scratch. He still owes me an apology after I falsified his hyperskepticism with a link to a research biologist's website confirming that hydra can indeed grow 20 cm in length (or more). I'm not holding my breath on that. And during all his evasions, he probably views himself as nimble and brilliant even after his positions are destroyed. It's like living through a Monty Python skit . . . (The dead parrot skit comes to mind) But your responses are appreciated and I learned things about RNA that I didn't know. Thank you. -QQuerius
June 13, 2022
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Andy, you are a deep thinker obvioulsy! Any thoughts on SETI? Any thoughts on constraints around aminoacyl tRNA synthetases?Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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Let me in the meantime idly speculate on what a constraint in the context of the evolution of aaRSs would be? Nope, can't think. Anyone else have a suggestion (printable only)?Fred Hickson
June 13, 2022
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