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At Evolution News: Günter Bechly repudiates “Professor Dave’s” attacks against ID

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Günter Bechly, Senior Fellow of the Center for Science and Culture, addresses the off-base accusations made against ID and the Discovery Institute.

Dave Farina is an atheist American YouTuber who runs a channel called Professor Dave Explains with almost two million subscribers.

The clichés and misrepresentations Farina recycles about intelligent design are beyond tired. Still, those new to the debate might find it helpful to see Farina’s false claims debunked.

Farina seems more interested in caricaturing those he disagrees with than understanding them.

Three Major Problems 

Farina also thinks that intelligent design theory “cannot be validated as real science because it does not explain or predict anything.” Here are three major problems with this statement:

Who defines what qualifies as “real science”? It is certainly not Dave Farina. It is not judges in court rooms. And it is not even the scientists themselves who define “science.” Reasonably, it is philosophers of science who address this question. But Farina seems to be totally ignorant of the fact that there is no consensus among philosophers of science about a demarcation criterion that could reliably distinguish science from non-science. Any criterion yet suggested, including Karl Popper’s criterion of falsifiability, either excludes too much (e.g., scientific fields like string theory or evolutionary biology) or includes too much (e.g., homeopathy or parapsychology).

Of course, intelligent design has explanatory power. Otherwise, we could not even explain the existence of Romeo and Juliet by the intelligent agency of William Shakespeare. There is no doubt that the designing activity of an intelligent agent is a perfectly valid explanation for complex specified patterns. The only question under debate is whether such patterns are confined to the realm of human cultural artifacts or if they are also found in nature. But this question should not be decided by dogmatic a priorirestrictions of certain worldviews that do not allow for design explanations whatever the evidence might be, but should rather follow the evidence wherever it leads. It is an empirical question to be decided by the data.

It is simply false that intelligent design does not predict anything. Indeed, this is yet another common stereotype that has been refuted so many times by ID proponents that any further use of this argument can be based only on a total ignorance of the facts (or perhaps deliberate lying, but I prefer not to apply that interpretation). Stephen Meyer (2009) included in his book Signature in the Cell a whole chapter with a dozen predictions inspired by intelligent design theory. These are often very precise and easily falsifiable, for example: “No undirected process will demonstrate the capacity to generate 500 bits of new [specified] information starting from a nonbiological source.” Just write a computer simulation that achieves this, without smuggling the information in through a backdoor, and you can claim victory over a core prediction of intelligent design.

Evolution News

Dr. Bechly addresses numerous additional misfires attempted by Professor Dave. With such a voluble spray of baseless accusations coming from someone like Professor Dave, it can be helpful to be reminded of the proverb, “Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.” (Proverbs 26:2)

Comments
If so, please provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture – one that does not entail language.
What architecture? Why do you ask me, who sees no useful connection between linguistics and how the genetic code works in cellular metabolism.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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From the journal, Nature: The digital code of DNA https://www.nature.com/articles/nature01410relatd
July 8, 2022
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"English is a language. Yes. English is a code. No... of course language can be written in code. Doesn’t make code language" But that doesn't answer the question. Why exactly do you think there's a difference ?Jblais
July 8, 2022
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Fred does the gene system utilize a rate-independent medium, where the spatial orientation of objects within a finite set of symbol vehicles (codons) is used to distinguish one referent from another?
The genetic code and how it functions with DNA and RNA and aaRSs relies at all points on stereochemical affinities (hydrogen bonding is crucial) and being powered by ATP. Why not call codons codons?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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Can you then tell me what the difference is between the two ?
English is a language. Yes. English is a code. No. Now, of course language can be written in code. Doesn't make code language, only that a code may be used to represent, store and transmit a statement that can be decoded back into a linguistic statement. And yes there is a poor analogy with the genetic code that adds nothing to understanding linguistics from biochemistry or vice versa.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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FH at 834, "inherent properties" [said with a Brooklyn accent] Hey buddy! I got yer inherent properties right here!relatd
July 8, 2022
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"If that were so, we wouldn’t need two words" Can you then tell me what the difference is between the two ?Jblais
July 8, 2022
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. Fred, Fred does the gene system utilize a rate-independent medium, where the spatial orientation of objects within a finite set of symbol vehicles (codons) is used to distinguish one referent from another? Is the end result of the process contingent on memory (description) of a set of constraints that establish the relationships between the codons and their referents? If so, please provide an example of another system known to the physical sciences that uses that architecture - one that does not entail language.Upright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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"Stereochemical relationships between molecules are the heart of the process." There is simply no stereochemical relationships between codons and the amino acids they represent. As you said yourself: "The disconnection at the point of the aaRS charging aminoacid to tRNA is the heart of the discussion." Indeed, the absence of any contact between amino acids and tRNA at their respective binding sites on the aaRS before they are linked together insures that stereochemistry plays no role. Variations of the code do exist, testifying to the arbitrariness of the genetic code. So far, nobody has ever found any plausible stereochemical explanation of the genetic code.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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A code is a language and a language is a code.
If that were so, we wouldn't need two wordsFred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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The double helical structure of DNA molecules is obviously not what is responsible for the genetic code.
It's inherent properties make it the almost universal medium for storing genetic information as well as replication and translation.
The code is based on the sequencial alignment of nucleotides along one strand.
The sequence of codons determines any output to RNA and protein sequences (leaving aside gene switches, introns etc), yes.
Any sequence is possible and the code is arbitrary.
Yes.
Any codon could specify any amino acids.
As Upright Biped points out, the aaRSs could in theory specify aminoacids to different codons. The universal case is arbitrary.
No stereochemical principle has ever been found to explain the genetic code.
Stereochemical relationships between molecules are the heart of the process. The disconnection at the point of the aaRS charging aminoacid to tRNA is the heart of the discussion.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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"What has atheism to do with a discussion on the evolution of the genetic code?" Someone holding on an a priori metaphysical assumption that the fundamental ontology of the world is mindless (like atheists do), will rule out any possibility that something having inherent intentionality (a property of minds) like a language or code, could govern the behaviors of molecules. The only explanation I see for the absurd denial of the obvious fact that the genetic code is a code seems to be this a priori metaphysical committment. Similarly, consistent physicalists are led to eliminitavism despite its self-refuting nature, because their metaphysical committment rules out the possibility of first-person conciousness existing in the first place.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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Are some people here who believe that they are psychiatrists ...obviously they aren't. Maybe they are well-intentioned but this is not enough to become a qualified psychiatrist.Lieutenant Commander Data
July 8, 2022
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"That’s a bit of a goalpost move, now you’ve dropped the word “linguistic”." No it's not. A code is a language and a language is a code. Remember the definition: a system of symbolic representation with a syntax and semantics. You can e.g. use the morse code to talk to someone...Jblais
July 8, 2022
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@ Jblais What has atheism to do with a discussion on the evolution of the genetic code?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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Whether you find it weird or not, life is based on a code. The code has been discovered by a code breaker (Francis Crick) decades ago. That’s not controversial.
That's a bit of a goalpost move, now you've dropped the word "linguistic". I'm not disputing that DNA sequences in genes store information.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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There are two places that the physical sciences can document this organization; one of them is in written language and the other is in the gene system.
There's organisation in human language communication, though that is arbitrary. The same conventions do not apply in English and Chinese. The genetic code is almost completely universal. But a particular codon sequence will produce a particular protein with particular bioactivity. There are no linguistic variations here... Unless, of course Darwinian evolution sifts variation to produce change. Perhaps you have a point in that language evolution and biological evolution are to an extent analogous.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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Fred Hickson at 823 "Life a linguistic concept? That’s just weird. " I know you find it weird but perhaps you could ask yourself why you find it so weird ? I suggest that it is because you have a priori assumptions about what is possible and what is not because of metaphysical committment to atheism. Whether you find it weird or not, life is based on a code. The code has been discovered by a code breaker (Francis Crick) decades ago. That's not controversial.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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Fred Hickson at 821 "Nothing is added to our knowledge by suggesting any of this is like a language." I'm afraid you don't understand the point. Nobody is "suggesting" that the genetic code "is like a language". The genetic code simply has all the necessary and sufficient properties that define a language, therefore that's what it is. When something fits a definition, then what is specified by the definition applies to it. The genetic code is, guess what, a code ! "DNA has inherent stereochemical properties that result in the complementary double helix..." The double helical structure of DNA molecules is obviously not what is responsible for the genetic code. The code is based on the sequencial alignment of nucleotides along one strand. Any sequence is possible and the code is arbitrary. Any codon could specifiy any amino acids. No stereochemical principle has ever been found to explain the genetic code. Again, don't let your philosophical presuppositions blind you. Willful blindness is not a promising approach.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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And just to be clear, Fred Hickson is a physicalist. I'm intrigued to note that Upright Biped is too.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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A language system is an identifiable physical organization.
Well, that's vague enough to be undeniable. So what?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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Jblais
I know that the philosophical implications of the fact that life is at its core a linguistic phenomenon can be disturbing, even frightening.
Life a linguistic concept? That's just weird. And I can't recall anyone making that claim before. I certainly don't find it disturbing; I find it risible. Is this claim unique to you?Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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. A language system is an identifiable physical organization. It has distinct parts with physical and organizational criteria that are well known. There are two places that the physical sciences can document this organization; one of them is in written language and the other is in the gene system. Fred can deny this as he chooses, but his denial won’t change the facts recorded in the literature over the past 50+ years.Upright BiPed
July 8, 2022
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Jblais
The genetic code is a language that talks about proteins.
DNA is the medium by which the vast majority of known living organisms store their genetic information which includes (encodes, if you like) the instructions for the synthesis of the essential class of bioactive molecules, proteins as well as the various essential RNAs. DNA has inherent stereochemical properties that result in the complementary double helix in which both strands are templates for replication of the genome. Nothing is added to our knowledge by suggesting any of this is like a language.Fred Hickson
July 8, 2022
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FH: Good grief. Does this line of talking work with anyone else you have encountered, online or in real life?
Between this and the claims of speaking with disregard to truth simply because you disagree with him, and subsequent claims of negative credibility, certainly do make me laugh.JHolo
July 8, 2022
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Fred Hickson at 802 "There’s an assumption in your question that the genetic code has some analogical connection with linguistics. That is not the case." It's not an assumption and it's not an analogy. The genetic code IS a language. A programming language that is used to build living cells and living organisms. That's the reason why the field of bio-informatics exists. We don't talk about physical-informatics, or chemical-informatics, even though computers are of course used in these fields but we created the field of bio-informatics because studying genomes is studying coded programs like in everyday informatics ! A language is simply a system of symbolic representation with a syntax and semantics. The genetic code fits the definition, therefore that's what it is. Symbolic representation simply means that something stands for something it is not identical to. Nucleic acids are not the same type of molecules than amino acids. Nucleic acids symbolically represent amino acids in the genetic code. The genetic code is a language that talks about proteins. The syntax is set out in terms of codons, exons and genes. Syntactic operators include start and stop codons, introns, untranscribed and untranslated regions, various epigenetic tags, etc... The semantics (meaning) is defined by codons symbolically representing amino acids, and genes representing proteins. A given codon of the code means a specific amino acid to the exclusion of all others. A given gene of the genome means a specific protein to the exclusion of others, etc... As an illustration, certain mutations only affect the syntax. Bu that violation of syntactic rules wreck the meaning (the semantics). These are called non-sense and frameshift mutations and are pretty much universally strongly deleterious. No professional biologist, biochemist, geneticist or bioinformatician worthy of the name denies that the genetic code is a code. It's in all textbooks covering these subjects. This sort of claim is only found on online forum or on twitter. I know that the philosophical implications of the fact that life is at its core a linguistic phenomenon can be disturbing, even frightening. But don't let your metaphysical preferences and a priori commitment to certain worldviews lead you to deny reality. Denial is never a fruitful strategy.Jblais
July 8, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
But it would be fun to get back to the issue of UB’s assertion that such a system (the DNA code and aaRSs) could not evolve.
Stop being so dishonest. The assertion is that genetic code could not have arisen by evolution BY MEANS OF BLIND AND MINDLESS PROCESSES. You are clearly proud of being an equivocating coward.ET
July 8, 2022
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Fred conflates the genetic code with DNA and templating. The genetic code is a language, Fred. It is a language of the cell. DNA is only part of the genetic code. DNA is an information carrier. You are seriously clueless.ET
July 8, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
There’s an assumption in your question that the genetic code has some analogical connection with linguistics. That is not the case.
You think that your opinion is meaningful. That is not the case.ET
July 8, 2022
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F/N2: having shown that even Wiki's notorious moderators know better than to attempt the sort of denial FH has tried, we can proceed to deal with the abuse of disanalogy. We again start with what Wiki's notorious moderators have been forced to concede. They would never allow the following, if they did not have to on the strength of the evidence:
Analogy plays a significant role in problem solving, as well as decision making, argumentation, perception, generalization, memory, creativity, invention, prediction, emotion, explanation, conceptualization and communication. It lies behind basic tasks such as the identification of places, objects and people, for example, in face perception and facial recognition systems. It has been argued that analogy is "the core of cognition".[3] Specific analogical language comprises exemplification, comparisons, metaphors, similes, allegories, and parables, but not metonymy. Phrases like and so on, and the like, as if, and the very word like also rely on an analogical understanding by the receiver of a message including them. Analogy is important not only in ordinary language and common sense (where proverbs and idioms give many examples of its application) but also in science, philosophy, law and the humanities. The concepts of association, comparison, correspondence, mathematical and morphological homology, homomorphism, iconicity, isomorphism, metaphor, resemblance, and similarity are closely related to analogy. In cognitive linguistics, the notion of conceptual metaphor may be equivalent to that of analogy. Analogy is also a basis for any comparative arguments as well as experiments whose results are transmitted to objects that have been not under examination (e.g., experiments on rats when results are applied to humans).
Comparison and recognition of evident similarity [and contrast], as well as the likelihood that relevantly like things tend to act alike, are indeed at the heart of thinking about a going concern world full of items that cluster by family resemblance. Is this of similar power to deductive chains? No, deduction is about certainty of logical consequence, once it is correct. Of course if the hook from which all hangs is false, then the chain may be valid but is not sound. Similarly, if a step in the chain is wrong, the argument becomes invalid. Deductive argument depends crucially on premises, and on correct reasoning. How do we come to know premises are true as opposed to merely assumed, why by "experience" and "reflection" involving cognitive processes very much as just seen. So, we should know that analogy is to be respected and used with due caution. The pivot is, like-ness. Here, we go to the root of right reason, distinct identity. A is itself, A, i/l/o its core, defining characteristics. These often overlap with other items that are similar to some degree, and may be recognised by family resemblance . . . a species of analogy. We may firm that up, e.g. knowing that whether a pendulum bob is painted red or blue is unlikely to influence its period of swing. (And notice, how argument by instructive example is a case of analogy at work.) So, the issue is not that analogies may fail, but that analogies are in the heart of our reasoning and so must be carefully managed. In the relevant case, we can say, yes a digital memory device holding a binary string data structure is comparable to DNA, or that strings of alphanumeric characters are vaguely similar to DNA. But we are not locked to simple comparison. We have a whole science, computer science, and linked algebras [there are many algebras out there] that allow us to inject general analysis. Here, we know that registers often exhibit s-t-r-i-n-g data structures, and we know that binary digital is not the only form of discrete state element. Our numbering system based on 10 is a ten state digital system. Alphanumeric characters and similar items form an extensive scheme through UNICODE, with thousands of discrete states, for convenience reduced to bit strings. Back in the old days, the Russians created three state element computers, and indeed, high Z and indifference/don't care states are found in many predominantly binary digital systems. Likewise, algorithms are not bound to binary systems, an algorithm is a goal-directed, finite stepwise procedure with halting. Codes are structured rule frameworks that allow us to use discrete state elements to express and sometimes to conceal information. They need not be confined to binary digital forms, though such are convenient. These general results, and others like them, allow us to recognise other instantiations of the generic patterns, so we can readily see that D/RNA strings are storage registers, typically expressing the genetic code, and that they can be and are often used for expressing algorithms in a machine code for D/RNA. The biochemistry and polymer science are implementation technologies [much as the steel technology is for tools and knives], they do not constitute the whole relevant nature of the system. the Tanenbaum layercake approach with physical layer on the bottom is instructive. Consequently, we can see that codes are linguistic, inherently. Likewise, that algorithms are reflective of purpose and technique, ART. The shocker is to find such in the cell using molecular nanotech. That becomes good reason to infer design. Which is what is being stoutly resisted at any cost. KFkairosfocus
July 8, 2022
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