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At Evolution News: Recognizing Providence in the History of Life Is a Hint About Our Own Lives

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An arena of fine-tuning we can all appreciate, not quantitatively but qualitatively, is how in most events of our lives, things go right, when there are so many more ways that they could go wrong. Just consider how most of the time we arrive safely to where we’re going when we take a trip by car, even in rush-hour traffic. Or, how electricity keeps flowing to our homes, without which we’d be pushed quickly into survival mode. Or how our sense of balance facilitates efficient movement of our physical bodies throughout the day.

David Klinghoffer gives his perspective on this topic, reaching a different conclusion than Dartmouth College physicist Marcelo Gleiser.

Dartmouth College physicist Marcelo Gleiser, writing at Big Think, asks, “Does life on Earth have a purpose?” Obviously, this is more than just a scientific question. It’s a very personal one for each of us. Given the venue, Gleiser’s answer of course is going to be no.

Gleiser’s own case rests on the part played by chance in life’s history. For example, the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs:

If we changed one or more of the dramatic events in Earth’s history — say, the cataclysmic impact of the asteroid that helped eliminate the dinosaurs 66 million years ago — life’s history on Earth would also change. We probably would not be here asking about life’s purpose. The lesson from life is simple: In Nature, creation and destruction dance together. But there is no choreographer.

His argument: The Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction cleared the field for mammals, allowing ultimately for the rise of “intelligent, technology-savvy humans.” No asteroid –> no humans. The asteroid was a chance, unchoreographed event. Therefore, says Dr. Gleiser, no “choreographer” intended our existence.

The Role of Providence

This is a remarkably shallow conclusion. As luck would have it (if you want to put it that way), I’ve been thinking about the role of providence, as I see it, in my own path of life. Any of us can point to certain pivotal events in our past — a seemingly chance meeting, a piece of advice received, an idea that came to us unbidden — that need not have occurred, but did. And because they did, we found the path to our current place (marriage, relationships, friendships, work, the whole thing) laid out before us.

Gleiser’s argument about the history of life is just a separate application of the depressing view that denies anything in our life paths could have been intended for us. That the view is depressing doesn’t mean that it is mistaken. That it can be asserted doesn’t mean that it is correct.

Purposeful Information

To decide about providence in the rise of complex life, you would have to look at a much wider suite of evidences than the fact that an asteroid doomed the dinosaurs. Scientific proponents of intelligent design have done this, noting vast evidence of extraordinarily careful tuning in physics, chemistry, and biology, from the Big Bang itself, to the origin of life, to the series of biological “big bangs” through which bursts of purposeful information infused the biosphere. 

The most recent treatments of this theme include biologist Michael Denton’s The Miracle of Man and philosopher of science Stephen Meyer’s Return of the God Hypothesis. Meyer’s book points to three scientific discoveries that demand a conclusion of purpose behind the cosmos (that the universe has a beginning, that it was fine-tuned for life from the start, that life is a form of information-processing technology). On the radical discontinuities in evolution that bespeak purpose and creativity, see Meyer and paleontologist Günter Bechly’s chapter (“The Fossil Record and Universal Common Ancestry”) in the volume Theistic Evolution.

“The Wheel Has Turned”

From a different perspective, Denton explains this beautifully and profoundly. What Gleiser terms “intelligent, technology-savvy humans” are exactly what almost countless coincidences in nature have been set just so in order to permit. As Dr. Denton has written here about this “prior fitness” for human beings, creatures capable of manipulating fire, and therefore of engaging in technological invention:

Even though many mysteries remain, we can now, in these first decades of the 21st century, at last answer with confidence Thomas Huxley’s question of questions as to “the place which mankind occupies in nature and of his relations to the universe of things.” As matters stand, the evidence increasingly points to a natural order uniquely fit for life on Earth and for beings of a biology close to that of humans, a view which does not prove but is entirely consistent with the traditional Judeo-Christian framework….

“Mysteries remain,” as Denton acknowledges. Yet, “The wheel has turned.” Modern science calls us to recognize the role of providence in the history of the cosmos, of our planet, and of life. If that is true in cosmology and biology, it’s a hint that it might be true, too, on the far smaller scale of our individual biographies.

Full article at Evolution News.
Comments
@kairosfocus:
AC, BA77 is right, you have lost it.
I think you're talking about AF, right?AndyClue
August 8, 2022
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AC, BA77 is right, you have lost it. The Christian faith and its now waning heritage in Europe are not to be equated to the track record of atheistical totalitarians collectively responsible for north of 100 million dead by democides. A more fair understanding is, to be human is to struggle morally, but there are first principles, which the Hebraic-Christian Jerusalem root of our Civilisation endorses and has taught for millennia, often falling short but also leading to sound reformation that on the whole has made a positive difference. There is a book at the heart of that, which you evidently despise to the point you cannot acknowledge its core moral teachings. You seem to imagine that a shift to evolutionary materialistic scientism and linked secular humanism etc are beneficial. The history of the jacobins and other similar radicals says somewhat differently. I suggest you reconsider. KFkairosfocus
August 8, 2022
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So Christianity is now to be put on par with Kim Jong Un's North Korea? You can't be serious? Apparently militant atheism, besides leading to totalitarian hellholes, also leads to the mental retardation of its proponents. In 2020, It was estimated that 60% of the total population of North Korea lives below the poverty line,,.,
What do we know about poverty in North Korea? - 2020 Excerpt: Our results, which are robust to the use of different methods to approximate the income distribution in the country, indicate that the share of persons living in extreme poverty in North Korea may be larger than previously thought. We estimate a poverty rate for the country of around 60% in 2018 and a high volatility in the dynamics of income at the national level in North Korea for the period 2012–2018. Income per capita estimates tend to decline significantly from 2012 to 2015 and present a recovery since 2016. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-020-0417-4
bornagain77
August 8, 2022
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Atheistic utopia must be a synonym for totalitarian regime, I guess. Putin uses the Russian Orthodox Church as a political wing. Quelle différence from Kim Jong Un?Alan Fox
August 8, 2022
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...do you really want to go back to those good ole days of atheistic utopias where those supposedly evil Christians were rounded-up, reeducated, and/or killed?
In countries in Western Europe where formal religion has declined to a minority activity and cultural tradition, Christians are still safer walking the streets than in the USAlan Fox
August 8, 2022
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At post 22 Seversky ignores the very real practical and pragmatic benefits of believing in God, i.e. greater benefits for mental and physical health, and states, "That was certainly true in the past when being an atheist could seriously damage your health if you fell into the hands of the more zealous believers who held that the only good atheist was a dead atheist." Yet, (besides the fact that I was talking about 'normal life spans', and wasn't even talking about persecution), what Seversky fails to ever honestly acknowledge in his hate filled diatribes against Christianity is that Christians have, historically, suffered exponentially worse at the hands of atheists, and non-believers in general, than atheists have ever suffered at the hands of Christians.
Atheism’s Body Count * It is obvious that Atheism cannot be true; for if it were, it would produce a more humane world, since it values only this life and is not swayed by the foolish beliefs of primitive superstitions and religions. However, the opposite proves to be true. Rather than providing the utopia of idealism, it has produced a body count second to none. With recent documents uncovered for the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, it now seems the high end of estimates of 250 million dead (between 1900-1987) are closer to the mark. The Stalinist Purges produced 61 million dead and Mao’s Cultural Revolution produced 70 million casualties. These murders are all upon their own people! This number does not include the countless dead in their wars of outward aggression waged in the name of the purity of atheism’s world view. China invades its peaceful, but religious neighbor, Tibet; supports N. Korea in its war against its southern neighbor and in its merciless oppression of its own people; and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge kill up to 6 million with Chinese support. All of these actions done “in the name of the people” to create a better world. - per scholar's corner Among the Disbelievers: Why atheism was central to the great evil of the 20th century - GARY SAUL MORSON / SEPT. 17, 2018 Excerpt: In its 300-year history in Spain, Portugal, and the New World, the Spanish Inquisition killed a few thousand, perhaps even a few tens of thousands, while in the atheist Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin, that was the average toll every week or two. To this objection, the atheist has a ready reply: Atheism had nothing to do with Bolshevik carnage. As Richard Dawkins explains in The God Delusion: “What matters is not whether Hitler and Stalin were atheists, but whether atheism systematically influences people to do bad things. There is not the smallest evidence that it does.” This comment displays an ignorance so astonishing that, as the Russian expression goes, one can only stare and spit.,,, Bolshevik ideology demanded that religion be wiped out. Perhaps even more than constructing dams and factories, creating a population of atheists became the regime’s most important criterion of success. “Atheism [was] the new civilization’s calling card,” as S.A. Kuchinsky, director of the Leningrad State Museum of the History of Religion and Atheism, explained. Communist society could be built only by a new kind of human being, one who would at every moment be guided by partiinost (party-mindedness), a singular devotion to the Party’s purposes. Partiinost demanded militant atheism (mere unbelief was not enough), and atheism became, as Smolkin observes, “the battleground on which Soviet Communism engaged with the existential concerns at the heart of human existence: the meaning of life and death.” https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/among-the-disbelievers/ Knowing our world: The three major reasons for persecution of Christians worldwide - Denyse O'Leary Excerpt: The world-wide picture is sobering. Pew Research Center, Newsweek, and The Economist all agree that Christians are the world’s most widely persecuted group. Marshall and team offer information about three quite different reasons for persecution by different types of regimes (pp. 9–11): First, there is post-Communist persecution, following the collapse of Communism in the late 1980s, where the regimes " … have since retreated to an onerous policy of registration, supervision, and control. Those who will not be controlled are sent to prison or labor camps, or simply held, abused, and sometimes tortured." The most intense persecutor is the still Communist (not post-Communist) regime, North Korea (pp. 9–10). There, “Christians are executed or sent to prison camps for lengthy terms for such crimes as the mere possession of a Bible.” Second, in some countries, “Hindu or Buddhist religious movements equate their religion with the nature and meaning of their country itself.” They persecute minority tribes as well as religions (pp. 10–11). These countries include Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Bhutan. Third, of course the Muslim world where "Even though the remaining Communist countries persecute the most Christians, it is in the Muslim world where persecution of Christians is now most widespread, intense, and, ominously, increasing. Extremist Muslims are expanding their presence and sometimes exporting their repression of all other faiths. … Even ancient churches, such as the two-thousand-year-old Chaldean and Assyrian churches of Iraq and the Coptic churches of Egypt, are under intense threat at this time. (p. 11)." http://www.thebestschools.org/bestschoolsblog/2013/03/30/knowing-world-major-reasons-persecution-christians-worldwide/
In fact, it can be forcefully argued, and is a self-evident fact, that governments based on Judeo-Christian principles lead to more freedom for all people, including atheists, whilst governments founded on atheistic principles lead to totalitarian hellholes that are horrible places to live, even horrible places for atheists to live in.
POVERTY, HUNGER AND OTHER EVILS OF COMMUNISM By Stephen Chapman - Jan 25, 1990 Excerpt: The Soviet ambassador to the U.S. dramatized the point a couple of years ago by giving a $5,000 donation to homeless activist Mitch Snyder. That gesture, like the entire communist enterprise, was a hollow fraud. The Soviet people and their fellows in Eastern Europe, it`s become clear, were even worse off than the fiercest anticommunists imagined. Communism may be vanishing, but before it goes, the full scope of its debacle ought to be known. For years, the evidence has been trickling in that even by the standards of success established by the Left, East bloc socialism has been a disaster. In 1984, Harvard scholar Nicholas Eberstadt exposed the health crisis afflicting the Russian people. Life expectancy, he pointed out, was six years lower than in Western Europe. Infant mortality was three times higher. Death rates were rising for every age group. ''Measured by the health of its people,'' he wrote, ''the Soviet Union is no longer a developed nation.'' And things were getting worse, not better.,,, https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1990-01-25-9001070410-story.html - Atheism’s Tendency Towards Totalitarianism Rather Than Freedom What is so strange and odd that in spite of their outward rejection of religion and all its superstitions, they feel compelled to set up cults of personality and worship of the State and its leaders that is so totalitarian that the leaders are not satisfied with mere outward obedience; rather they insist on total mind control and control of thoughts, ideas and beliefs. They institute Gulags and “re-education” centers to indoctrinate anyone who even would dare question any action or declaration of the “Dear Leader.” Even the Spanish Inquisition cannot compare to the ruthlessness and methodical efficiency of these programs conducted on so massive a scale. While proclaiming freedom to the masses, they institute the most methodical efforts to completely eliminate freedom from the people, and they do so all “on behalf” of the proletariat. A completely ordered and totally unfree totalitarian State is routinely set up in place of religion, because it is obviously so profoundly better society. It is also strange that Stalin was a seminarian who rejected Christianity and went on to set up himself as an object of worship. It seems that impulse to religious devotion is present in all, whether that be in traditional forms or secular inventions. https://www.scholarscorner.com/atheisms-body-count-ideology-and-human-suffering/
So tell me Seversky, do you really want to go back to those good ole days of atheistic utopias where those supposedly evil Christians were rounded-up, reeducated, and/or killed? Jeremiah 29:11 11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.bornagain77
August 8, 2022
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@kairosfocus:
AC, your own tendencies are here on display. Perhaps, the statement of the prophets would be of help. KF
What tendencies? And help for what? I'm not a mind reader.AndyClue
August 8, 2022
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AC, your own tendencies are here on display. Perhaps, the statement of the prophets would be of help. KF PS, first, Isaiah:
Isa 5: 18 Woe to those who draw iniquity with cords of falsehood, who draw sin as with cart ropes, 19 who say: “Let him be quick, let him speed his work that we may see it; let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw near, and let it come, that we may know it!” 20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight! 22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine, and valiant men in mixing strong drink, 23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe, and deprive the innocent of his right! 24 Therefore, as the tongue of fire devours the stubble, and as dry grass sinks down in the flame, so their root will be as rottenness, and their blossom go up like dust; for they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts, and have despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Then, Micah:
Micah 6: 8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness,2 and to walk humbly with your God?
And of course, Moses on just what neighbour love implies:
Lev 19: 9 “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. 10 And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God. 11 “You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another. 12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD. 13 “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning. 14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the LORD. 15 “You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life1 of your neighbor: I am the LORD. 17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
kairosfocus
August 7, 2022
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@Seversky:
I agree that a little more humility would not be such a bad idea.
First step would be to ditch the so-called prophets and start having a relationship with god. However in this regard christianity is rotten from the core, since it is built on men and their ideologically tainted writings.
I think if He’s still pursuing OT policies then I would have to say “no” but, like a said before, I’m happy to talk if He wants to drop in for a chat.
You're on the right path: The idea is to ask god, instead of men.AndyClue
August 7, 2022
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Sev, pardon your anti-Christian, anti-civilisation, anti-, anti-education bias is showing. You know full well that even were the schools in Canada abusive as you imply, that would have been exceptional. And there is evidence already raised here at UD that the picture painted is distorted. The ongoing, accelerating manipulation, indoctrination and too often moral desensitisation, corruption and outright grooming under colours of science, wokism, secularism etc is manifestly indefensible and should be properly and duly reformed. KF PS, Have you read the Sermon on the Mount, the context for your clip? What is Jesus's summary of the ethics of the law and the prophets therein?________ What key OT principle in Lev 19:9 - 18 is he pointing to? ________ And what does that teach about first duties? ________kairosfocus
August 7, 2022
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Relatd/10
When man becomes the center, and even with relatives and friends, he will miss the ultimate big picture.
I agree that a little more humility would not be such a bad idea.
To all reading: Jesus Christ is waiting for you to say yes to a relationship with Him.
I think if He's still pursuing OT policies then I would have to say "no" but, like a said before, I'm happy to talk if He wants to drop in for a chat. Verse Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Seversky
August 7, 2022
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Bornagain77/18
In fact, “Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation.”
Note that he wrote that the benefits accrued to religious affiliation generally, not Christianity only. You and I could probably become a Satanist or Jedi Knight or Pastafarian and enjoy the same advantages.
Thus contrary to what ChuckyD wants to believes, there are, in fact, fairly severe negative consequences to be had, both mentally and physically, for people who reject God. As I told Seversky a few years ago, ,,, “shoot, from a purely practical, pragmatic, point of view you ought to believe in God since it will greatly increase your chances of living longer here on this earth.”
That was certainly true in the past when being an atheist could seriously damage your health if you fell into the hands of the more zealous believers who held that the only good atheist was a dead atheist. And it still is now in some parts of the world.Seversky
August 7, 2022
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Relatd/17
Why not overthrow the Marxist-Atheist reeducation camps?
You mean replace them with the kind of boarding-schools to which Native American children were sent to be "assimilated" into Christian society - whether they liked it or not?
Why not present the truth?
It is.
The low-level hatred of Christianity presented here cannot hide the truth.
I don't see a hatred for Christianity per se. As for the sanctimonious bigotry and nationalism that passes for Christianity in some parts of the country, however, that's a different matter.
The words typed here were not produced by monkeys but by human beings.
I'm not so sure.
Humans are capable of abstract thought. Of creating word symbols and intelligently stringing them together in the correct sequence so that they can be understood by other human beings.
Sometimes.
That is Intelligent Design.
I don't think anyone has ever denied that anthropic intelligent design exists.
By the way, let me know when the Atheist Utopia appears.
That won't happen until the Federation is set up at the earliest. Let us know when you receive a postcard from Heaven.Seversky
August 7, 2022
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Chuckdarwin/7
With a good editor, the Bible could be shortened by at least 50% and made reader friendly.
Didn't a guy called Thomas Jefferson take a stab at it a while back?Seversky
August 7, 2022
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When man becomes the center, and even with relatives and friends, he will miss the ultimate big picture. Death is not the end. Your eyes close and nothing happens is not the truth. You, and everyone else will stand before God. To all reading: Jesus Christ is waiting for you to say yes to a relationship with Him.relatd
August 7, 2022
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At 11 ChuckyD defends Nietzsche's mental breakdown as such,
My mother has been afflicted with Alzheimer’s for a decade and her cognition is less than that of a child–would you condemn her for that?
First off I did not condemn Nietzsche for his mental illness. For crying out loud that was beyond his control. And was certainly beyond your mother's control. I merely noted that the hero philosopher of many atheists suffered a complete mental breakdown prior to his death. Make of it what you will. But what I do wholeheartedly condemn Nietzsche for is for his putrid philosophy of 'enslavement',
The Dehumanizing Impact of Modern Thought Darwin, Marx, Nietzsche, and Their Followers - July 21, 2008 By RICHARD WEIKART Excerpt: While many modern thinkers, especially scientists, psychologists, and social scientists, have embraced one form of determinism or another, many thinkers have followed the nineteenth-century philologist and philosopher Nietzsche in rebelling against determinism. Nietzsche attempted to rescue humanity from scientific reductionism by positing radical individual freedom. He believed that all knowledge and truth are created by humans, not imposed on us by some external reality. We cannot blame the environment, nor biology, nor God for our character and behavior. Nietzsche rejected the idea that humans have fixed natures or essences. Rather, the choices we make as individuals shape our destiny. Many subsequent existentialists and post-modern thinkers have exulted in Nietzsche’s liberation from reductionism and determinism. While Nietzsche’s emphasis on free will might seem to rescue humanity from the degrading philosophies of environmental or biological determinism, it does nothing of the sort. It only elevates a small elite of humanity, whom Nietzsche called the Superman, or more literally, Overman. Nietzsche’s freedom was freedom only for these Supermen, the creative geniuses (like himself) who would rise above the hoi polloi. He had nothing but disdain for the masses, whom he thought incapable of exercising true freedom. What Nietzsche contemptuously called the herd instinct of the masses fitted them for nothing other than submission to the domination of the Superman. Despite its stress on freedom, then, Nietzsche’s philosophy is really a philosophy that aims at enslavement. Power ultimately decides, not only who rules politically, but also what counts as truth. Nietzsche rejected any form of fixed truth or morality, thus undermining the very notion of humanity and human rights. Nietzsche despised weakness, compassion, and humanitarianism, preferring strength and domination. He was especially vehement in his rejection of Christian ethics, because it catered to the weak and downtrodden. His aristocratic morality aimed at justifying and benefiting the strong and powerful.,,, https://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=2274 Did Nietzsche, Foucault, and Postmodernism open the door for the Death of Humanity? - video - Richard Weikart Excerpt: Nietzsche, subsequent existentialists, Foucault, and other postmodernists have contributed to the secular assault on the Judeo-Christian sanctity-of-life ethic. Nietzsche had utter contempt for the masses of humanity and argued that Superman figures should oppress and even eradicate those deemed inferior. Foucault admitted that the Nietzschean death of God also meant the death of humanity, and Foucault glamorized suicide as a result. Both existentialists and postmodernists reject any human rights or objective morality. https://youtu.be/tRgjzAoVIxc
That ChuckyD would claim that Nietzsche is "the most significant thinker of the 19th century" is simply, besides laughably wrong, pathetically sad. Moreover, as to ChuckyD's overriding theme in trying to defend Nietzsche's complete mental breakdown, i.e. that there are no negative consequences to be had in this life for people who reject God, well that overriding theme is now known to be false. As Professor Andrew Sims, former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, states, “The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally.”,,, “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life;,,”
“I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100
In fact, "Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation."
Of snakebites and suicide - February 18, 2014 RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-snakebites-and-suicide/ Atheism and suicide "Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization's report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia. Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism."[3] https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_suicide
As well, in the following study it was found that, “those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%.” and "Religiously affiliated people lived “9.45 and 5.64 years longer…”
Can attending church really help you live longer? This study says yes – June 1, 2017 Excerpt: Specifically, the study says those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%. The Plos One journal published the “Church Attendance, Allostatic Load and Mortality in Middle Aged Adults” study May 16. “For those who did not attend church at all, they were twice as likely to die prematurely than those who did who attended church at some point over the last year,” Bruce said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending-church-really-help-you-live-longer-study-says-yes/364375001/ Study: Religiously affiliated people lived “9.45 and 5.64 years longer…” July 1, 2018 Excerpt: Self-reported religious service attendance has been linked with longevity. However, previous work has largely relied on self-report data and volunteer samples. Here, mention of a religious affiliation in obituaries was analyzed as an alternative measure of religiosity. In two samples (N = 505 from Des Moines, IA, and N = 1,096 from 42 U.S. cities), the religiously affiliated lived 9.45 and 5.64 years longer, respectively, than the nonreligiously affiliated. Additionally, social integration and volunteerism partially mediated the religion–longevity relation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/study-religiously-affiliated-people-lived-religiously-affiliated-lived-9-45-and-5-64-years-longer/
Thus contrary to what ChuckyD wants to believes, there are, in fact, fairly severe negative consequences to be had, both mentally and physically, for people who reject God. As I told Seversky a few years ago, ,,, "shoot, from a purely practical, pragmatic, point of view you ought to believe in God since it will greatly increase your chances of living longer here on this earth." (Not to mention eternal life in heaven after this earthly life).
John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
bornagain77
August 7, 2022
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CD at 11, Why not overthrow the Marxist-Atheist reeducation camps? Why not present the truth? The low-level hatred of Christianity presented here cannot hide the truth. The words typed here were not produced by monkeys but by human beings. Humans are capable of abstract thought. Of creating word symbols and intelligently stringing them together in the correct sequence so that they can be understood by other human beings. That is Intelligent Design. That is the code in every living cell. It cannot be denied. By the way, let me know when the Atheist Utopia appears.relatd
August 7, 2022
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Ba77 at 8, "God is dead." Nietzsche "Nietzsche is dead." Godrelatd
August 7, 2022
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CD at 7, Remember, God will not be mocked. Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap."relatd
August 7, 2022
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CD, "There is no science in the OP or commentary that I’ve “skipped," And here is CD kicking back at home https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/4iYb83QdZ2y3Qo58royhedym0vs=/1440x810/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/GLE2CMEHPTH5CJB255EVHAIVVU.jpgbornagain77
August 7, 2022
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CD, your rhetorical stunts continue, failing to recognise that the design inference on fine tuning stands on its own merits and your repeated evasion speaks inadvertently to that. Such does raise worldview issues and it is appropriate to discuss same. Where, also, we need to recognise as a matter of fact of history that the Christian synthesis of the heritage of Jerusalem, Athens and Rome shaped the civilisation we inherited. I repeatedly find that anti-christian hostility too often becomes misanthropic anti civilisational nihilism, a point that is extremely relevant to themes raised by Nietzsche. The self referential incoherence of evolutionary materialistic scientism, associated radical relativism, doors opened to will to power and more can be seen echoed in too many headlines. KFkairosfocus
August 7, 2022
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BA77, actually, an anti-theology academic movement. KF PS, documenting, from Darwin's Oct 13 1880 letter to Aveling: http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-12757
. . . though I am a strong advocate for free thought [--> NB: free-thought is an old synonym for skepticism, agnosticism or atheism] on all subjects, yet it appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity & theism produce hardly any effect on the public; & freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men’s minds, which follows from the advance of science. It has, therefore, been always my object to avoid writing on religion, & I have confined myself to science. I may, however, have been unduly biassed by the pain which it would give some members of my family [--> NB: especially his wife, Emma], if I aided in any way direct attacks on religion.
Fair comment, this letter makes it utterly clear that a key background motive for Darwin's theorising on origins science was to put God out of a job, thus indirectly undermining the plausibility of believing in God. In thinking and acting like this, he probably believed that he was championing enlightenment and science-led progress in their path to victory over backward, irrational but emotionally clung-to beliefs. And so his strategy was to lead in a science that was in his mind showing just how outdated and ill-founded the Judaeo-Christian theism that had dominated the West since Constantine in the 300's was. PPS, in that context we can see why, manifestly unable to address fine tuning, they pull stunts to evade, divert attention and polarise. Do I need to call the name, Alinsky?kairosfocus
August 7, 2022
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BA77/10 My mother has been afflicted with Alzheimer's for a decade and her cognition is less than that of a child--would you condemn her for that? I quote Nietzsche for two reasons. First, his point is spot on. I know, as he knew, that the OT was primarily written in Hebrew, and his remarks are directed more at the NT. But the point that the Bible is, as Sev points out, (to put it kindly) opaque in parts and beyond most people's grasp does not speak well of its authors. They set the stage for countless disputes (even wars) over the "true" word of God, disputes that still continue. Second, Nietzsche, as far as I am concerned, is the most significant thinker of the 19th century. He is also the greatest literary stylist in the German language. The older I get, the more his analysis of the evolution of Western culture seems true. But that's just my personal opinion. That he is an easy target for ignoramuses is unfortunate--he even anticipated that. That he has been misrepresented, misappropriated and mis-affiliated is also unfortunate, but he also knew that that goes with the territory. There is no science in the OP or commentary that I've "skipped," just one more DI attempt to make science the handmaiden of Christianity.chuckdarwin
August 7, 2022
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Hence Seversky and ChuckyD, since they both have now skipped the science and focused on criticizing the Bible, have confirmed Dr. Hunter's observation that Darwinism is best understood, not as a science, but as a "theological research program"
Evolution as a Theological Research Program - by Cornelius Hunter - August 2021 Introduction Excerpt: ,,, theological claims are common in Darwin’s On the Origin of Species (Darwin 1859), where they are essential to his science. The religion is not a tangential message, and one need not read between the lines to see it. In the Origin, it would not be an exaggeration to say the religion drives the science. Darwin’s religion is not merely present, it is prominent and has primacy over the science. The religion is foundational. The importance of religion in Darwin’s theory is also apparent in the science he presented. As Section 5 shows, Darwin did not have sufficient scientific arguments and evidence to advance his theory. Finally, as Section 6 and Section 7 demonstrate, these roles and relationships between religion and science persisted after Darwin. This religious foundation was by no means peculiar to Darwin’s thought. It has remained foundational since Darwin in motivating and justifying the theory. What we find in Darwin continued in later evolutionary thought. Therefore, the thesis of this paper is that evolution is best understood as a theological research program. https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/12/9/694/htm
Of related note, Dr. Hunter is hardly alone in his criticism that Darwinism is not a science, Early in his career, Karl Popper noted that Darwinian evolution is "not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research program.” Popper was attacked by the Darwinian Gestapo for these criticisms. So Popper, in approx 1978,, took his criticisms of Darwinism back. But when John Horgan interviewed Popper in 1992, Horgan noted that Popper “blurted out that he still found Darwin’s theory dissatisfying. “One ought to look for alternatives!” Popper exclaimed, banging his kitchen table.”
Dubitable Darwin? Why Some Smart, Nonreligious People Doubt the Theory of Evolution - John Horgan - July 6, 2010 Excerpt: Early in his career, the philosopher Karl Popper ,, called evolution via natural selection “almost a tautology” and “not a testable scientific theory but a metaphysical research program.” Attacked for these criticisms, Popper took them back (in approx 1978). But when I interviewed him in 1992, he blurted out that he still found Darwin’s theory dissatisfying. “One ought to look for alternatives!” Popper exclaimed, banging his kitchen table. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/dubitable-darwin-why-some-smart-nonreligious-people-doubt-the-theory-of-evolution/
Tom Bethell also interviewed Karl Popper after the Darwinian Gestapo attacked him and Popper once again reiterated his claim that Darwinism was not a testable scientific theory.
Tom Bethell on Karl Popper's rejection of Darwinian Evolution as a testable scientific theory - 5:54 minute mark https://youtu.be/MLdZzf8HoUU?t=352 In his autobiography, Karl Popper said he had come to the conclusion that “Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research program.”8 To say that a species now living is adapted to its environment “is almost tautological,” he wrote. “Adaptation or fitness is defined by modern evolutionists as survival value, and can be measured by actual success in survival. There is hardly any possibility of testing a theory as feeble as this.” Further controversy ensued, for Popper—apparently under pressure in England—partially recanted in 1978. Later, in 1988, I had a chance to interview Popper myself, when he spent a week at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. I immediately brought up the issue of natural selection. He told me that his opinion had not changed. He also said he thought that natural selection had in fact been falsified “by Darwin’s own theory.” Distortions introduced by sexual selection sometimes meant that offspring were not better adapted than their parents, he said. When I mentioned that Darwinism had evidently benefited from the idea of Progress, widely accepted in the mid-nineteenth century but widely rejected in the late twentieth, Popper said that “I have been one of the people who have destroyed it.” He said he had “preached” along those lines in his book The Poverty of Historicisms. Tom Bethell, Darwin’s House of Cards (2016) (pp. 14–15)
In fact it turns out that Popper did not really ever take back his criticism of Darwinism but instead he, being someone who grew up under communist repression, cleverly rephrased his wording so as to merely give Darwinists the superficial appearance that he had taken back his criticism of Darwinism,,,
Laszlo Bencze: Karl Popper Never Really Retracted His Doubt Of Darwin - November 9, 2020 Most of us know that at one point Karl Popper turned his attention to evolution and made the following statement: “…Darwinism is not a testable scientific theory, but a metaphysical research programme—a possible framework for testable scientific theories.” — Unended Quest An Intellectual Autobiography, Karl Popper, p. 168 The statement aroused so much controversy and animosity amongst his academic colleagues that he was forced to “recant” in the following statement: “I have in the past described the theory as ‘almost tautological’, and I have tried to explain how the theory of natural selection could be untestable (as a tautology) and yet of great scientific interest. My solution was that the doctrine of natural selection is a most successful metaphysical research programme. It raises detailed problems in many fields, and it tells us what we would expect of an acceptable solution of these problems. “I still believe that natural selection works in this way as a research programme. Nevertheless, I have changed my mind about the testability and the logical status of the theory of natural selection; and I am glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation. My recantation may, I hope, contribute a little to the understanding of the status of natural selection.” — Popper Selections, Karl Popper (edited by David Miller), p. 242 Note that his choice of the word “recantation” is significant. He might well have used “reevaluation” or “disavowal” or “repudiation.” I believe he chose recantation deliberately to ally himself with Galileo and to make clear that he was being persecuted by misguided and dimwitted authorities just as Galileo was. Furthermore, he writes that natural selection is “a most successful metaphysical research program.” Wait a minute. Wasn’t that what he was to apologize for? So within his recantation he is reaffirming his original point of view, the very one that got him in trouble. He goes on to say that he is glad to have an opportunity to make a recantation. Sure he is. He would much prefer to have a root canal without anesthesia than to recant a statement integral to his life’s work as philosopher. Finally, in his summary sentence he is “glad to contribute a little to the understanding of the status of natural selection.” So what did he contribute? He contributed the understanding of natural selection as a metaphysical research program. I never noticed these points until a friend pointed them out to me. Now they jump forth as obvious. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/laszlo-bencze-karl-popper-never-really-retracted-his-doubt-of-darwin/
bornagain77
August 7, 2022
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Chuckdarwin/7
With a good editor, the Bible could be shortened by at least 50% and made reader friendly.
Back in the day, when I was Christian because I didn't know any better, I read the KJV Bible but it was heavy going, almost opaque in some places. I agree, it could certainly have benefited from a good editor.Seversky
August 7, 2022
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ChuckyD, skipped discussing the science, and goes directly to quoting my passage from Genesis, Gen 1:27, and then he remarks, via the 'Madman' Nietzsche, "when God decided to become an author that he learned Greek–and did not learn it better." Yet, "the Jewish Bible, the Old Testament, was originally written almost entirely in Hebrew, with a few short elements in Aramaic" https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-translation Also of note to ChuckyD's source for his off the mark quote, , Nietzsche,
"God is dead" Friedrich Nietzsche - The Parable of the Madman - (1882) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHvHGf2OpZs On August 25, 1900, Friedrich Nietzsche, who had famously announced the death of God, had himself died.,, Nietzsche had suffered a major mental breakdown in 1888, just as his ideas were catching fire outside of academic circles. The once brilliant scholar and philosopher, reduced to the mental cognition of a child, had no understanding of how famous he’d become. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2012/julyaugust/feature/nietzsche-dead
bornagain77
August 7, 2022
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BA77/6
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
This is a great example of Nietzsche's observation, which I've quoted before, that "it is a curious thing that when God decided to become an author that he learned Greek--and did not learn it better." With a good editor, the Bible could be shortened by at least 50% and made reader friendly. People might actually read it.....(http://poncefoundation.com/christians-dont-read-their-bible/)chuckdarwin
August 7, 2022
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ChuckyD, (in response to the fact that the universe is found to be not only fine-tuned for life, but that it is found to be fine tuned "for beings of a biology close to that of humans"), jokes, "What does the capital of Rhode Island have to do with ID?" Which, I suppose, might be good for a chuckle, but such class-clown antics from ChuckyD ignores the very real fact that such “anthropic prior fitness” for human beings is a VERY surprising finding in science which is completely antithetical to something that lies at the heart of the atheist's worldview.
How We Moved Beyond Darwin to the Miracle of Man - Michael Denton - May 11, 2022 Concluding paragraph: "The more I examine the universe and study the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known that we were coming.” And it is not only our biological design which was mysteriously foreseen in the fabric of nature. As The Miracle of Man shows, nature was also strikingly prearranged, as it were, for our unique technological journey from fire making, to metallurgy, to the advanced technology of our current civilization. Long before man made the first fire, long before the first metal was smelted from its ore, nature was already prepared and fit for our technological journey from the Stone Age to the present." https://evolutionnews.org/2022/05/how-we-moved-beyond-darwin-to-the-miracle-of-man/ The Miracle of Man: Extraordinary “Coincidences” All the Way Down - - June 9, 2022 Excerpt: On a new episode of ID the Future, Miracle of Man author and biologist Michael Denton continues his conversation with host Eric Anderson. Here Denton offers a review of several more anthropic “coincidences” in chemistry, biochemistry, and Earth sciences that are fine tuned to allow air-breathing, bipedal, technology-developing terrestrial creatures like ourselves to exist and thrive. The fine tuning, what Denton calls anthropic prior fitness, would seem to require foresight and planning on literally a cosmic scale. - Podcast: - The Miracle of Man: Extraordinary “Coincidences” All the Way Down https://idthefuture.com/1609/ First three parts of the interview with Dr. Denton are here 1 https://idthefuture.com/1601/ 2 https://idthefuture.com/1604/ 3 https://idthefuture.com/1606/
Namely, such 'anthropic prior fitness' for humans is a VERY surprising finding in science that is completely antithetical to the Copernican Principle, and/or the Principle of mediocrity, which holds that there is nothing special about the earth, and especially, nor is there anything special about humans in particular.
Copernican principle Excerpt: In physical cosmology, the Copernican principle, is an alternative name of the mediocrity principle,,, stating that humans (the Earth, or the Solar system) are not privileged observers of the universe.[1] Named for Copernican heliocentrism, it is a working assumption that arises from a modified cosmological extension of Copernicus’s argument of a moving Earth.[2] In some sense, it is equivalent to the mediocrity principle. – per wikipedia Carl Sagan coined the term ‘principle of mediocrity’ to refer to the idea that scientists should assume that nothing is special about humanity’s situation https://books.google.com/books?id=rR5BCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA187#v=onepage&q&f=false Mediocrity principle Excerpt: The (Mediocrity) principle has been taken to suggest that there is nothing very unusual about the evolution of the Solar System, Earth’s history, the evolution of biological complexity, human evolution, or any one nation. It is a heuristic in the vein of the Copernican principle, and is sometimes used as a philosophical statement about the place of humanity. The idea is to assume mediocrity, rather than starting with the assumption that a phenomenon is special, privileged, exceptional, or even superior.[2][3] – per wikipedia
And yet, despite the fact that virtually everyone, including the vast majority of Christians today, presently hold that the Copernican Principle is unquestionably true, (and therefore concede the necessary premise of the Principle of Mediocrity to atheists), the fact of the matter is that the Copernican Principal, as Denton and others have shown, is now shown, via our most powerful theories in science, to have been a false assumption in science. https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/neil-thomas-on-evolutionary-theory-as-magical-thinking/#comment-748883 This overturning of the Copernican principle is NOT just some minor development in science but is a major development in science that overturns centuries of, supposedly, established scientific fact that had denigrated man to the point of being "insects devouring one another on a little atom of mud”, having "no more meaning than that of slime mould", "just a chemical scum on a moderate size planet", and a "mosquito".
You Chemical Scum, You Raymond Tallis engages with the dregs of philosophy Excerpt: Voltaire got things off to a jolly secular start quite a while back, by instructing the eponymous hero of his novel Zadig (1747) to visualise “men as they really are, insects devouring one another on a little atom of mud.” The notion of the Earth as ‘an atom of mud’, or at least as a not-very-special address, was prompted by a growing appreciation of the implications of the first scientific revolution. This had begun with Copernicus demoting the Earth to just one among many bits of matter circling in empty space; and led, via Kepler, Galileo, Newton and a few other giants of early modern physics, to an image of the universe as a gigantic clockwork machine, in which our planet, and consequently its inhabitants, cut a pretty small figure. But the competition to find the most scathing description of humanity seems to have intensified, particularly over the last few decades. Biology has been the inspiration in some cases. The philosopher and professional misanthrope John Gray has argued that Darwin has cured us of the delusions we might have had about our place in the order of things – we are beasts, metaphysically on all fours with the other beasts. “Man” Gray asserts in Straw Dogs (2003), “is only one of many species, and not obviously worth preserving.” And in case you’re still feeling a bit cocky, he adds: “human life has no more meaning than that of slime mould.” Slime mould? Yikes! Can it get any worse? Yes it can. For physics has again been recruited to the great project of disproving our greatness. Stephen Hawking’s declaration in 1995 on a TV show, Reality on the Rocks: Beyond Our Ken, that “the human race is just a chemical scum on a moderate size planet, orbiting round a very average star in the outer suburb of one among a billion galaxies” is much quoted. If we beg to differ, perhaps is it only because we are like the mosquito who, according to Nietzsche, “floats through the air… feeling within himself the flying centre of the universe”? (‘On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense’, 1873.) https://philosophynow.org/issues/89/You_Chemical_Scum_You
This false 'scientific' denigration of man to the point of being slime mold and chemical scum has not been without drastically tragic consequences for man
Atheism’s Body Count * It is obvious that Atheism cannot be true; for if it were, it would produce a more humane world, since it values only this life and is not swayed by the foolish beliefs of primitive superstitions and religions. However, the opposite proves to be true. Rather than providing the utopia of idealism, it has produced a body count second to none. With recent documents uncovered for the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, it now seems the high end of estimates of 250 million dead (between 1900-1987) are closer to the mark. The Stalinist Purges produced 61 million dead and Mao’s Cultural Revolution produced 70 million casualties. These murders are all upon their own people! This number does not include the countless dead in their wars of outward aggression waged in the name of the purity of atheism’s world view. China invades its peaceful, but religious neighbor, Tibet; supports N. Korea in its war against its southern neighbor and in its merciless oppression of its own people; and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge kill up to 6 million with Chinese support. All of these actions done “in the name of the people” to create a better world. - per scholar's corner
Yet thankfully, and as much as it may hurt an atheist’s feelings to know this, and as far as our best science can now tell us, we are not merely to be considered “chemical scum” as Hawking, via the Copernican Principle, tried to imply that we were.
“The human race is just a chemical scum on a moderate-sized planet, orbiting around a very average star in the outer suburb of one among a hundred billion galaxies. We are so insignificant that I can’t believe the whole universe exists for our benefit.,,,” – Stephen Hawking – 1995 TV show, Reality on the Rocks: Beyond Our Ken,
But there is instead, as far as our best science can now tell us, very strong scientific reasons to believe that there is indeed something special about the earth, and even special about man, in the universe. Hopefully atheists will, in short order, get over their disappointment that humans are not to be considered merely ‘chemical scum’, and/or insects, but that they are, instead, made in the image of God.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
bornagain77
August 7, 2022
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I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Klinghoffer got a religious studies degree from Brown, which happens to be located in, you guessed it, Providence….chuckdarwin
August 6, 2022
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CD at 3, Excellent. To your comment, Providence refers to: Definition of providence 1a) often capitalized : divine guidance or care b) capitalized : God conceived as the power sustaining and guiding human destinyrelatd
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