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ATTN JVL, this is the new post dialogue box

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From screen shot:

No, authors cannot target a specific commenter.

U/D, May 15: How to contact UD and how to see weak argument corrections:

One trusts this is enough. END

F/N, May 14: It being now an obvious tactic to sidetrack non technical UD threads into ID debates (even where there is a thread that is live on the topic with relevant information, graphics and video) I will augment basic correction below by adding here a chart showing tRNA as a Drexler style molecular nanotech position-arm device:

We may expand our view of the Ribosome’s action:

The Ribosome, assembling a protein step by step based on the instructions in the mRNA “control tape”

As a comparison, here is punched paper tape used formerly to store digital information:

Punch Tape

In Yockey’s communication system framework, we now can see the loading [blue dotted box] and how tRNA is involved in translation, as the AA chain towards protein formation is created, step by step — algorithm — under control of the mRNA chain of three base codons that match successive tRNA anticodons, the matching, of course is by key-lock fitting of G-C or C-G and A-T or T-A, a 4-state, prong height digital code:

Yockey’s analysis of protein synthesis as a code-based communication process

Further to this, DNA has been extended with other similar monomers, and DNA has been used as a general purpose information storage medium for digital codes, apparently even including for movie files.

The point of this is, for record, to expose and correct how hyperskeptical objectors have inappropriately tried to deny that D/RNA acts as a string based digital information storage unit, that it holds algorithmic code used in protein synthesis, and latterly that tRNA acts in this process in the role of a position-arm nanotech robot device with a CCA tool tip, CCA being a universal joint that attaches to the COOH end of an AA.

Speaking of which, AA structure, with side branches [R] and chaining links, i.e. NH2-alpha Carbon + R – COOH:

Comments
JHolo And with no way to test suck claims we have simple meaningless rhetoricBobSinclair
May 14, 2022
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BS: You’re entire comment rests on a presumption and as such does not offer a lot of mileage but simple meaningless rhetoric.
No, my comment is that evolution has resources that are many orders of magnitude greater than all of the scientists ever to be born will have available to them. You might as well claim that scientists can’t test the theory that plate tectonics can cause mountain formation.JHolo
May 14, 2022
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JHolo You’re entire comment rests on a presumption and as such does not offer a lot of mileage but simple meaningless rhetoric.BobSinclair
May 14, 2022
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ET: Why is it that no one can demonstrate that evolution by means of blind and mindless processes produced any bacterial flagellum? Why is it that no one can even propose a way to test that claim?
Well, if A scientist had 400 trillion gallons of water, trillions of tons of other earth-like elements and chemicals, and a few hundred million years at his/her disposal, it might be possible to demonstrate that something like a flagellum, or something equally complex could develop. But since this is not available to the average scientist I guess you will be able to get more mileage out of your meaningless comments.JHolo
May 14, 2022
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ET/40 A hat trick so early in the day. Keep it up and you'll be an ID MVP before you know it....chuckdarwin
May 14, 2022
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JVL: {{Kairosfocus: I am not privy to details of WF policies So, the answer is: no, you do not know what conditions I am meeting to cause the WordFence error. Can you get me in touch with someone who does know so that I can find out what’s causing the problem? --> We can guess from your particular comment on what WF said to you. Why not write them if the general note is not enough: avoid key words, do not post too frequently etc. but generally trigger words, rapid posting, coming from known suspicious URLs, having infections with computer malware and the like would count. Rapid posting . . . how rapid would that be? --> I would guess within a minute or two I suspect the last time I tried to edit a post to fix a typo creating a bad url, it was that too much time had elapsed so my behaviour was suspect. Commenters have only 20 minutes to alter their comments; I would assume that WordFence would know that. --> As thread owner EDIT was still open and I saw the typo. Nope, suspicious, then lockout. I saw too that repeated attempts would go directly to the filter, a frustration but understandable. We’re only allowed so many attempts at editing our comments? Is that what you’re saying? What is ‘the filter’? --> WF and other security features will have automatic filters. It is likely, rapid repeat edits trigger, suspicious. --> Suggestion, compose and clean up in Notepad etc then copy paste and post comment. The tech is not perfect but let us note as a sign that UD does not have frequent adware comments. Not really the point of this conversation though is it? --> Such a plague of spam is a good sign of inadequate security. This is a case where silence speaks. }} KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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JHolo- Why is it that no one can demonstrate that evolution by means of blind and mindless processes produced any bacterial flagellum? Why is it that no one can even propose a way to test that claim?ET
May 14, 2022
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I am pointing commenters to the updated thread.kairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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Kairosfocus: I am not privy to details of WF policies So, the answer is: no, you do not know what conditions I am meeting to cause the WordFence error. Can you get me in touch with someone who does know so that I can find out what's causing the problem? but generally trigger words, rapid posting, coming from known suspicious URLs, having infections with computer malware and the like would count. Rapid posting . . . how rapid would that be? I suspect the last time I tried to edit a post to fix a typo creating a bad url, it was that too much time had elapsed so my behaviour was suspect. Commenters have only 20 minutes to alter their comments; I would assume that WordFence would know that. I saw too that repeated attempts would go directly to the filter, a frustration but understandable. We're only allowed so many attempts at editing our comments? Is that what you're saying? What is 'the filter'? The tech is not perfect but let us note as a sign that UD does not have frequent adware comments. Not really the point of this conversation though is it?JVL
May 14, 2022
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JHolo Your robotomorphic appeal fails.
Not really. Your darwinism can't explain the concept of proofreading, error correcting, cell signalling. Chemistry don't do that ,only code embedded in chemistry do that.Lieutenant Commander Data
May 14, 2022
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KF, you full well know that the molecular images and animations often used here at UD and other ID sites to show the “designed” nature of things like protein synthesis and the flagellum are simply high-level models to assist in the understanding of the chemistry involved. And, as models, they have their limitations, one being the misleading suggestion that they function as intelligently designed mechanisms. Your robotomorphic appeal fails.JHolo
May 14, 2022
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FH Hydrogen bonding is the explanation for water’s amazing properties and hydrogen bonding is the biological explanation of base pairing.
As ET said ,you have to try a different argument because surprise, surprise all the chemistry (including hydrogen ) is part of the same design. Or do you really think that your poor hydrogen just happen to exist by chance and after that is allowed in the scene a Designer to act? :) Nope! Designer designed everything including chemical rules otherwise how in the world would be possible to use hydrogen for all higher levels of complexity we see manifested in life?Lieutenant Commander Data
May 14, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
Remember there’s no argument things, such as living organisms, are designed. The discussion is about what, when and how.
There isn't any evidence that nature produced life and its diversity, so that can be dismissed. The ONLY thing capable of producing coded information processing systems is intelligent agency volition. Living organisms are ruled by coded information processing systems. So, only people who deny reality say otherwise.
Jerry is pointing out that water molecules are the most amazing things. Hydrogen bonding is the explanation for water’s amazing properties and hydrogen bonding is the biological explanation of base pairing.
Where did nature the hydrogen and oxygen from? Did nature produce itself? Did nature produce the laws that govern it? How can we test such things?ET
May 14, 2022
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"FH, you full well know" there is a live thread on ID, the design inference, design theory and the design movement.
"FH, you full well know" is an unnecessary jibe. A link to the thread you are referring to, or even just its title, would have been helpful.Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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LCD
Another designed feature...
Remember there's no argument things, such as living organisms, are designed. The discussion is about what, when and how.
I have no doubt that FH has the answer to all these: “the hydrogen bond ” explains everything.
Not just me. Jerry is pointing out that water molecules are the most amazing things. Hydrogen bonding is the explanation for water's amazing properties and hydrogen bonding is the biological explanation of base pairing.Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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FH, you full well know there is a live thread on ID, the design inference, design theory and the design movement. Further discussion on this side track should be taken there. Likewise, if you wish to comment on the semiosis view, which boils down to a telecommunication layercake and protocols. I am about to add the F/N above, there. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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Illustrations added at the top as a footnote to the OP, Onward discussions on the side track topic should go to the L&FP 55 thread, where there is appropriate context https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/lfp-55-defining-clarifying-intelligent-design-as-inference-as-theory-as-a-movement/kairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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Kairosfocus FH, RNA world, you know, is gross speculation on a bruised reed of evidence.
:) There is even more to translation process: how is recruited the correct tRNA (that have the required anticodon) and how is allowed access into ribosome (A site ) ? Another designed feature: The spatial conformation of tRNA allows for a wobble effect that is preplanned design to reduce the error rate by being versatile( a U residue in the wobble position of the codon can form either a normal base pair with an A residue or an unusual base pair with a G residue in the tRNA. Similarly, inosine, which is a modifed purine base that is found in tRNA, can pair with A or G residues in the wobble position of the mRNA) Another designed feature: When "a wrong" tRNA is bound by the mRNA resulting in a codon/anticodon mismatch then the proofreading mechanism that detect the error trigger the activation of the release factor to shut down the operation that would create a "wrong" protein. Another designed feature: In real life multiple ribosomes are moving along the mRNA at the same time forming a structure known as a polyribosome. Interestingly, the polyA tail( at the 3' end )of the mRNA, can interact with the initiation component( located at the 5' end )of the mRNA making a circular configuration that allows ribosomes which complete translation and terminate at the 3' end of the mRNA to reinitiate immediately a new round of translation at the 5' end of the mRNA . I have no doubt that FH has the answer to all these: "the hydrogen bond " explains everything . :lol:Lieutenant Commander Data
May 14, 2022
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My comments expose you and yours as the pathetic losers, pathological liars and cowardly equivocators that you are. Have you ever added anything informative to any discussion? I have never seen it.ET
May 14, 2022
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And you should chip in too, ET. I'm sure your comments will be as informative and constructive as always. Namaste!Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
why don’t you start a thread for Upright Biped and his Semiotic Theory and the progress with it he has made since 2012?
' The only progress is that it has been confirmed. And you and yours don't have anything to account for what we observe.ET
May 14, 2022
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DNA based life is impossible without an existing suite of specific, specialized proteins and a specific coded information processing system. The alleged RNA world is purely imaginary and as such can explain away just about anything.ET
May 14, 2022
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KF why don't you start a thread for Upright Biped and his Semiotic Theory and the progress with it he has made since 2012? I will certainly chip in.Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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KF
FH, you are far too educated not to know the highly speculative nature of the RNA world hypothesis.
You could have asked. Yes I do think RNA world is speculative in some respects. Strawman versions are more so. RNA world is not an OoL hypothesis, though, and in the form that I see offered, it attempts to explain UB's conundrum the egg and chicken, for both DNA and protein. This it does neatly and with enough evidence so far that I'm persuaded. (I may have mentioned 15-20 years ago I favored Robert Shapiro's view but no longer. I changed my mind)Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
RNA World
There isn't any evidence for any RNA world, Fred. Science requires evidence and you don't have any.ET
May 14, 2022
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Fred Hickson:
Are there?
Yes, there are. Again, your ignorance is not an argument.ET
May 14, 2022
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FH, you are far too educated not to know the highly speculative nature of the RNA world hypothesis. I could go on to other points but you are doing an excellent job of exposing fundamental hostility warping ability to recognise or acknowledge fairly obvious points, here Drexler on molecular nanotech position arm robots and my having alluded to same as relevant to tRNA. It looks like, you having taken a cross-thread and distract gambit yet again, I need to add a f/n to OP and redirect to the still open thread for future comments. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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30 Kairosfocus May 14, 2022 at 4:29 am
FH, RNA world, you know...
If I may say, this is a regular fault of yours. You can find out what people think by asking them and accepting in good faith what they tell you. You instead turn dialogue into monologue. Is it any wonder the number of commenters has diminished?
...is gross speculation on a bruised reed of evidence.
Typical example!
That tRNA acts as a position arm robot in the context of Drexler, is far more direct.
At the most charitable, that is an analogy, a bad one. The d-arm isn't called an arm because it resembles a human arm. It's part of a macromolecule
But then, it is not hard to see the roots of your hyperskepticism and refusal to acknowledge things like how...
...Another example!
...D/RNA functions as a digital memory storage device
DNA is a template in those organisms that use DNA as a template (which is most of them). RNA functions as both template and catalyst in in vivo protein synthesis and as a template instead of DNA in, for example, one rather famous virus. "Digital memory storage device" sounds like something you'd find in a computer. In other words, another bad analogy.
...or how coded algorithms stored in that way are used in protein assembly.
There you go again! Coded algorithms! It's physical templates all the way down.
It is but a step of further denial to refuse to see that tRNA has an anti codon at one end, a CCA tip at the other...
I agree that tRNAs have an anticodon loop and an acceptor stem. You could have asked and saved yourself that bit of nonsense.
...and how AAs are loaded based on work of enzymes. Not to mention which came first chicken egg causal loops. KF
Now we get to the nub of Upright Biped's semiotic "argument". I think he'd make his own case better than you are managing for him. Do you think he might pop in?Fred Hickson
May 14, 2022
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FH, RNA world, you know, is gross speculation on a bruised reed of evidence. That tRNA acts as a position arm robot in the context of Drexler, is far more direct. But then, it is not hard to see the roots of your hyperskepticism and refusal to acknowledge things like how D/RNA functions as a digital memory storage device, or how coded algorithms stored in that way are used in protein assembly. It is but a step of further denial to refuse to see that tRNA has an anti codon at one end, a CCA tip at the other and how AAs are loaded based on work of enzymes. Not to mention which came first chicken egg causal loops. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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JVL, I am not privy to details of WF policies but generally trigger words, rapid posting, coming from known suspicious URLs, having infections with computer malware and the like would count. I cited Discus as a comparable security oriented technology not as more or less the same. I suspect the last time I tried to edit a post to fix a typo creating a bad url, it was that too much time had elapsed so my behaviour was suspect. I saw too that repeated attempts would go directly to the filter, a frustration but understandable. The tech is not perfect but let us note as a sign that UD does not have frequent adware comments. KFkairosfocus
May 14, 2022
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