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Aurelio Smith’s Analysis of Active Information

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Recently, Aurelio Smith had a guest publication here at Uncommon Descent entitled Signal to Noise: A Critical Analysis of Active Information. Most of the post is taken up by a recounting of the history of active information. He also quotes the criticisms of Felsentein and English which have responded to at Evolution News and Views: These Critics of Intelligent Design Agree with Us More Than They Seem to Realize. Smith then does spend a few paragraphs developing his own objections to active information.

Smith argues that viewing evolution as a search is incorrect, because organisms/individuals aren’t searching, they are being acted upon by the environment:

Individual organisms or populations are not searching for optimal solutions to the task of survival. Organisms are passive in the process, merely affording themselves of the opportunity that existing and new niche environments provide. If anything is designing, it is the environment. I could suggest an anthropomorphism: the environment and its effects on the change in allele frequency are “a voice in the sky” whispering “warmer” or “colder”.

When we say search we simply mean a process that can be modeled as a probability distribution. Smith’s concern is irrelevent to that question. However, even if we are trying to model evolution as a optimization or solution-search problem Smith’s objection doesn’t make any sense. The objects of a search are always passive in the search. Objecting that the organisms aren’t searching is akin to objecting that easter eggs don’t find themselves. That’s not how any kind of search works. All search is the environment acting on the objects in the search.

Rather than demonstrating the “active information” in Dawkins’ Weasel program, which Dawkins freely confirmed is a poor model for evolution with its targeted search, would DEM like to look at Wright’s paper for a more realistic evolutionary model?

This is a rather strange comment. Smith quoted our discussion of Avida previously. But here he implies that we’ve only ever discussed Dawkin’s Weasel program. We’ve discussed Avida, Ev, Steiner Trees, and Metabiology. True, we haven’t looked at Wright’s paper, but its completely unreasonable to suggest that we’ve only discussed Dawkin’s “poor model.”

Secondly, “fitness landscape” models are not accurate representations of the chaotic, fluid, interactive nature of the real environment . The environment is a kaleidoscope of constant change. Fitness peaks can erode and erupt.

It is true that a static fitness landscape is an insufficient model for biology. That is why our work on conservation of information does not assume a static fitness landscape. Our model is deliberately general enough to handle any kind of feedback mechanism.

While I’m grateful for Smith taking the time to writeup his discussion, I find it very confused. The objections he raises don’t make any sense.

Comments
Mung:
There are indeed all sorts of silly ways to talk about entropy, most of which are wrong. If you ask someone what Entropy is they won’t be able to tell you.
Most people can tell me very precisely. But not all will give the same definition. That doesn't matter, as long as they make it clear what they are talking about. I was talking about the flatness of the probability distribution of microstates (thermodynamics) or symbols(Shannon entropy), which is maximally flat when - sum p i * log p i is maximal.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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fifthmonarchman wrote:
At one time you did believe that life appeared designed . Everyone does. That what it means to say that this inference is hardwired. The universality of this impression has been confirmed scientifically.
I dispute your premise. I don't think we are "hard-wired" to think that everything is designed. I think we are born with the capacity to infer intention, and that in the early years some children may over-generalise - which is typical of a lot of features of early child development - a child will, typically, learn the word for "dog" and then call all four-footed animals "dogs". My son, interestingly, once asked me "how do tornados see to suck?" His default was to assume they were intentional agents. He was very relieved when I explained that they were inanimate. But these intuitions are not universal. But even if your premise was correct, there is no need to justify why erroneous assumptions, or defaults, we are "hard-wired" to entertain as children should not be replaced by evidence-based conclusions as we become mature enough to call our instinctive assumptions into question.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Mung (224-225): Ewert has taken a big step away from DEM in his article at Evolution News and Views. You probably shouldn't scour it for quotes. You might suffer the awful realization that I gave you correct explanations of the math before any of the ID theorists published them.SimonLeberge
May 3, 2015
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S = k* ln W (It's actually on Uncle Ludwig's grave . . . )kairosfocus
May 3, 2015
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Mark Frank: If the space Omega is countably infinite, then there definitely is no "natural" baseline distribution. DEM rule this out, but they shouldn't. The most "natural" choice of a space of genotypes of organisms is countably infinite. Even if they argue for an upper bound on the size of a genotype, that doesn't get them a particular distribution. That's my best biologically-relevant example.SimonLeberge
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth Liddle:
Entropy can be described, informally, as “lumpiness” or, slightly more formally as “non-uniformity”.
There are indeed all sorts of silly ways to talk about entropy, most of which are wrong. If you ask someone what Entropy is they won't be able to tell you. Elizabeth Liddle:
I’m interested in your answer as to why they are different, but let me explain why I think they are related...
They are related because Shannon's measure of information can be applied to any probability distribution. However, there are many cases in which the entropy is undefined. That's why they are different. Simple and concise.Mung
May 3, 2015
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SimonLeberge:
The ID movement has a heavy investment in the terms “search,” “target,” “search for a search,” and “conservation of information,” going back at least to No Free Lunch (2002), and continuing through Being as Communion (2014).
And this will probably continue to be the case as long as targeted searches continue to be presented as proofs of evolutionary theory.Mung
May 3, 2015
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SimonLeberge:
Ewert acknowledges now that a “search” doesn’t really search for the “target,” but sticks with the terms anyway.
The opening sentence from the abstract of A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search:
This paper provides a general framework for understanding targeted search.
Further:
We continue to assume that targets are fixed. Search for fuzzy and moveable targets will be the topic of future research by the Evolutionary Informatics Lab.
Mung
May 3, 2015
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Mark Frank and DiEb and Bob O'H: The ID movement has a heavy investment in the terms "search," "target," "search for a search," and "conservation of information," going back at least to No Free Lunch (2002), and continuing through Being as Communion (2014). Ewert acknowledges now that a "search" doesn't really search for the "target," but sticks with the terms anyway. We can see that the change has yet to permeate his thinking, as he continues to refer to categorical success and failure in evolution:
Darwinian evolution does not explain the complexity of biological life because its success or failure depends on the fitness landscapes it operates on.
This isn't just careless language. It makes sense only if something really does seek to "hit the target." Ewert acknowledges that "active information" is a measure of bias, not information. But he continues to indicate otherwise by referring to "conservation of information." He avoids speaking of the "search for a search," though it is that to which the "conservation of information" theorem applies. I'd like to hear what you have to say about improving terminology. The "target" is just an event. DiEb sometimes refers to a "search" as a guess of an element of Omega. I'm fine with that, but hardly anyone else is. I know it seems silly, but uninformed decision process might get a better reception, in part because it indicates that there's a sequence of steps, and in part because it doesn't come across as flippant. DEM's process S does make sequential decisions on which elements of Omega to "inspect" (take data on), and Delta(S) is a final selection of one of the inspected elements. The "search for a search" is just a mixture of uninformed decision processes, which is an uninformed decision process. The whys and wherefores are few and simple. There is no need for the "conservation of information" theorem.SimonLeberge
May 3, 2015
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Mark Frank:
So if I take my natural distribution to be different from yours then something may biased for you but not for me? Yet active information is a measure of bias. Whose bias?
I'm sure the bias is all yours Mark. :DMung
May 3, 2015
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Zac said, If you want to make a non-scientific claim, then we have no objection. If you claim there is scientific evidence of design in weather or biology, then we disagree. I say, The claim is that these things can not be produced algorithmically without the addition of active information. It does not matter whether you agree or not only if you can disprove the claim, Several hundred comments are all the evidence I need that you can not. peacefifthmonarchyman
May 3, 2015
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EL says, I don’t know what this means, or why it would be relevant. I say, It means that science has demonstrated that we are hardwired to infer design when we observe certain things in nature. Ask a small child why the zebra is striped and she will assume that it was designed to be that way, It's relevant because your position demands we deny this inborn assumption and instead come at the design question from a neutral position. Yet you don't demand the same for other hardwired inferences. For example you don't demand positive evidence before you grant that the materiel universe or your body exists. You tentatively accept these things until a better explanation for your impressions are given. You say, Biology is the study of living things. I don’t agree that living things have the appearance of being designed. I say, I'm not interested in present opinion I'm interested in how you can justify changing your mind. At one time you did believe that life appeared designed . Everyone does. That what it means to say that this inference is hardwired. The universality of this impression has been confirmed scientifically. What compelling evidence do you have for abandoning your natural belief? peacefifthmonarchyman
May 3, 2015
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Arguing with a Darwinist about intelligent design is like arguing with a Jehovah's witness about blood transfusion.Mapou
May 3, 2015
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Birds and bats share a common design also. It is on a different level than the common design shared by mammals. All animals share a common design on some level- at least one level. And that common design is elucidated by Linnaean taxonomy.Joe
May 3, 2015
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But birds are different, right?Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth:
I just don’t see any good arguments to infer Design from biology.
You haven't demonstrated that you have understood them. You don't even appear to understand exactly what is being debated. And if you read comment 139 it appears that you don't understand computers.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Zachriel:
If you claim there is scientific evidence of design in weather or biology, then we disagree.
Then present a viable alternative for biology.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth, I call your bluff. Please present these alleged models for UNGUIDED evolution. And after that please tells us about these alleged testable entailments for UNGUIDED evolution.Joe
May 3, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman:
You are hardwired to infer design
I don't know what this means, or why it would be relevant. ETA: I also don't agree with Dawkins' definition of biology. It's not that I don't "grasp" it - I think it is incorrect. Biology is the study of living things. I don't agree that living things have the appearance of being designed. I think they have the appearance of having been born to similar parents.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman: Yes and knowing the proximate causes of those things does not invalidate that original attribution any more than knowing that the pebble tray shook invalidates our impression that the big pebbles are on top due to design. If you want to make a non-scientific claim, then we have no objection. If you claim there is scientific evidence of design in weather or biology, then we disagree.Zachriel
May 3, 2015
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EL says, I just don’t see any good arguments to infer Design from biology. I say, You don't need arguments. You are hardwired to infer design. You need arguments to justify your abandonment of this inference. You say, It’s the inferential chain I am disputing, not the conclusion. I say, There is no inferential chain you infer design from you observations in one step. quote: "Biology is the study of complex things that appear to have been designed for a purpose." end quote: Richard Dawkins I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time grasping this. You need evidence to support changing from the position that life is designed to one that you now feel is more neutral. you say, And it seems to me that Ewert, Dembski and Marks are themselves conceding that the universe might be perfectly capable of producing living things “naturally” given enough “Active Information” at Big Bang. I say, The key word is "might" we don't abandon our hardwired impressions just because it's possible they are mistaken. We need good reasons to do so. It's possible I might be a brain in a vat but I have seen no compelling evidence to abandon my hardwired impression that my body exists so I don't. The same approach should be sufficient when dealing with the hardwired design inferences we all make. peacefifthmonarchyman
May 3, 2015
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Joe:
Yet it can’t even be modeled
Yes it can and is. That you think it can't be doesn't make you correct.
and offers no testable entailments.
Yes it does, and has been tested, many times, in field, in lab, both experimentally and observationally, and of course in silico.
Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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I say What I mean is you begin the game believing that what you see is the result of design and for some reason you abandoned that position for what you now think is a more neutral one.
You did not start life on the fence you are not a blank slate. The question is did you have warrant for your change in perspective. Do you have convincing evidence that life is not designed? Is such evidence even possible? I think you have already acknowledged it’s not. So why the change?
I don't really know what you are asking me. No, I've just said, I don't have convincing evidence that life was not designed. If the putative designer can make life look not-designed, then there's no way we can rule it out, just as we can't rule out the possibility that the earth was created last Thursday with the appearance of great age. I just don't see any good arguments to infer Design from biology. To take an analogy: I might be perfectly convinced that my son has gone out to see a movie, but I cannot infer that from the fact that his coat isn't on the hook. It could be on the floor of his bedroom, or he could indeed be out, but at the pub. It's the inferential chain I am disputing, not the conclusion. And it seems to me that Ewert, Dembski and Marks are themselves conceding that the universe might be perfectly capable of producing living things "naturally" given enough "Active Information" at Big Bang. Which would not be an argument from biology, but an argument from physics and chemistry. Not a very good one, I have to say, but closer to a good one than inferring it from biology. I'd say the biggest argument for a creator deity is the fact that anything exist at all: "why is there anything rather than nothing?" But I don't think it's terribly watertight, even then. "Nothing" turns out to be a complicated matter when space itself is one of the Things that can be Noth.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth:
I do not think you can infer a Designer of biological organisms from our observations of biological organisms.
That is why we also use other observations. If we could test unguided evolution you would have something. Yet it can't even be modeled and offers no testable entailments.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth:
No, they don’t have a common Design. Bat wings and bird wings are quite different designs
All mammals have a common designJoe
May 3, 2015
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EL says, but to make a positive inference, you’d have to be able to test it specifically. And you can’t do that easily without being more specific about constraints on the putative Designer. I say, No, you start with a positive inference from your observations you then must suppress this notion. check it out http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304311204579505574046805070 You say, I am not on “the nondesign side”. I don’t know whether there was/is a designer or not. I don’t see any evidence for one, but then an omnipotent designer could choose not to leave evidence. I say What I mean is you begin the game believing that what you see is the result of design and for some reason you abandoned that position for what you now think is a more neutral one. You did not start life on the fence you are not a blank slate. The question is did you have warrant for your change in perspective. Do you have convincing evidence that life is not designed? Is such evidence even possible? I think you have already acknowledged it's not. So why the change? peacefifthmonarchyman
May 3, 2015
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Yes, they have a common DESIGN. Convergent evolution is just another “just-so” explanation. Dr Spetner lays the claim bare in “The Evolution Revolution”.
No, they don't have a common Design. Bat wings and bird wings are quite different designs. It's if anything like one designer was asked to make a flying animal out of a small dinosaur, and another was asked to make a flying animal out of a mouse. Which is exactly what you'd expect of a pair of animals so obviously related to dinosaurs and mice, respectively, in so many other respects.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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fifthmonarchyman says:
EL says, I do not think you can infer a Designer from our observations. I say, But you do infer design from our observations. You are hardwired to do so. That is not at issue it is a fact.
Let me rephrase as I was unclear: I do not think you can infer a Designer of biological organisms from our observations of biological organisms. I do not think the evidence supports such an inference. The evidence is perfectly consistent with it (because an omnipotent Designer could design things any way she wanted, including designing them so that they looked as though they had evolved) but to make a positive inference, you'd have to be able to test it specifically. And you can't do that easily without being more specific about constraints on the putative Designer.
What you have is a preexisting design inference that you have chosen to discount for some reason. The only question is do you have warrant to do so. You don’t come to to the design question from a neutral position. You can’t. You start on the design side of the equation and therefore need compelling evidence to move to the nondesign side. Do you have any? peace
Now I am misunderstanding you. I don't know what you mean. I am not on "the nondesign side". I don't know whether there was/is a designer or not. I don't see any evidence for one, but then an omnipotent designer could choose not to leave evidence. So we certainly can't rule an omnipotent designer out. But nor can we conclude that there must be one.Elizabeth Liddle
May 3, 2015
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Elizabeth:
Flying mammals have wing structures in which the anatomical homologs are clearly mammalian, not bird-like.
Yes, they have a common DESIGN. Convergent evolution is just another "just-so" explanation. Dr Spetner lays the claim bare in "The Evolution Revolution".Joe
May 3, 2015
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Bob O'H and DiEb: The stochastic process defined by Dembski, Ewert, and Marks terminates with the selection of an element of the space Omega. Nature has not stopped to say, "Here it is -- birds!" To suggest that Ewert thinks he has a model of biological evolution would be to insult his intelligence. That leaves us to ask why he and his editor have tossed around the term "conservation of information" at ENV. The theorem of DEM does not apply to the non-terminating process that has generated birds. I would allow that it applies to the process that ended with extinction of the dodos. But I can't bring myself to regard the empty population as an example of biological complexity.SimonLeberge
May 3, 2015
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