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Signal to Noise: A Critical Analysis of Active Information

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The following is a guest post by Aurelio Smith. I have invited him to present a critique of Active Information in a more prominent place at UD so we can have a good discussion of Active Information’s strengths and weaknesses. The rest of this post is his.


My thanks to johnnyb for offering to host a post from me on the subject of ‘active information’. I’ve been following the fortunes of the ID community for some time now and I was a little disappointed that the recent publications of the ‘triumvirate’ of William Dembski, Robert Marks and their newly promoted postgrad Doctor Ewert have received less attention here than their efforts deserve. The thrust of their assault on Darwinian evolution has developed from earlier concepts such as “complex specified information” and “conservation of information” and they now introduce “Algorithmic Specified Complexity” and “Active information”.

Some history.

William Demsbski gives an account of the birth of his ideas here:

…in the summer of 1992, I had spent several weeks with Stephen Meyer and Paul Nelson in Cambridge, England, to explore how to revive design as a scientific concept, using it to elucidate biological origins as well as to refute the dominant materialistic understanding of evolution (i.e., neo-Darwinism). Such a project, if it were to be successful, clearly could not merely give a facelift to existing design arguments for the existence of God. Indeed, any designer that would be the conclusion of such statistical reasoning would have to be far more generic than any God of ethical monotheism. At the same time, the actual logic for dealing with small probabilities seemed less to directly implicate a designing intelligence than to sweep the field clear of chance alternatives. The underlying logic therefore was not a direct argument for design but an indirect circumstantial argument that implicated design by eliminating what it was not.*

[*my emphasis]

Dembski published The Design Inference in 1998, where the ‘explanatory filter’ was proposed as a tool to separate ‘design’ from ‘law’ and ‘chance’. The weakness in this method is that ‘design’ is assumed as the default after eliminating all other possible causes. Wesley Elsberry’s review points out the failure to include unknown causation as a possibility. Dembski acknowledges the problem in a comment in a thread at Uncommon Descent – Some Thanks for Professor Olofsson

I wish I had time to respond adequately to this thread, but I’ve got a book to deliver to my publisher January 1 — so I don’t. Briefly: (1) I’ve pretty much dispensed with the EF. It suggests that chance, necessity, and design are mutually exclusive. They are not. Straight CSI [Complex Specified Information] is clearer as a criterion for design detection.* (2) The challenge for determining whether a biological structure exhibits CSI is to find one that’s simple enough on which the probability calculation can be convincingly performed but complex enough so that it does indeed exhibit CSI. The example in NFL ch. 5 doesn’t fit the bill. The example from Doug Axe in ch. 7 of THE DESIGN OF LIFE (www.thedesignoflife.net) is much stronger. (3) As for the applicability of CSI to biology, see the chapter on “assertibility” in my book THE DESIGN REVOLUTION. (4) For my most up-to-date treatment of CSI, see “Specification: The Pattern That Signifies Intelligence” at http://www.designinference.com. (5) There’s a paper Bob Marks and I just got accepted which shows that evolutionary search can never escape the CSI problem (even if, say, the flagellum was built by a selection-variation mechanism, CSI still had to be fed in).

[*my emphasis]

Active information.

Dr Dembski has posted some background to his association with Professor Robert Marks and The Evolutionary Informatics Lab which has resulted in the publication of several papers with active information as an important theme. A notable collaborator is Winston Ewert Ph D, whose master’s thesis was entitled: Studies of Active Information in Search where, in chapter four, he criticizes Lenski et al., 2003, saying:

[quoting Lenski et al., 2003]“Some readers might suggest that we stacked the deck by studying the evolution of a complex feature that could be built on simpler functions that were also useful.”

This, indeed, is what the writers of Avida software do when using stair step active information.

What is active information?

In A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search, Dembski, Ewert and Marks (henceforth DEM) give their definition of “active information” as follows:

In comparing null and alternative searches, it is convenient to convert probabilities to information measures (note that all logarithms in the sequel are to the base 2). We therefore define the endogenous information IΩ as –log(p), which measures the inherent difficulty of a blind or null search in exploring the underlying search space Ω to locate the target T. We then define the exogenous information IS as –log(q), which measures the difficulty of the alternative search S in locating the target T. And finally, we define the active information I+ as the difference between the endogenous and exogenous information: I+ = IΩ – IS = log(q/p). Active information therefore measures the information that must be added (hence the plus sign in I+) on top of a null search to raise an alternative search’s probability of success by a factor of q/p. [excuse formatting errors in mathematical symbols]

They conclude with an analogy from the financial world, saying:

Conservation of information shows that active information, like money, obeys strict accounting principles. Just as banks need money to power their financial instruments, so searches need active information to power their success in locating targets. Moreover, just as banks must balance their books, so searches, in successfully locating targets, must balance their books — they cannot output more information than was inputted.

In an article at the Pandas Thumb website Professor Joe Felsenstein, in collaboration with Tom English, presents some criticism of of the quoted DEM paper. Felsenstein helpfully posts an “abstract in the comments, saying:

Dembski, Ewert and Marks have presented a general theory of “search” that has a theorem that, averaged over all possible searches, one does not do better than uninformed guessing (choosing a genotype at random, say). The implication is that one needs a Designer who chooses a search in order to have an evolutionary process that succeeds in finding genotypes of improved fitness. But there are two things wrong with that argument: 1. Their space of “searches” includes all sorts of crazy searches that do not prefer to go to genotypes of higher fitness – most of them may prefer genotypes of lower fitness or just ignore fitness when searching. Once you require that there be genotypes that have different fitnesses, so that fitness affects their reproduction, you have narrowed down their “searches” to ones that have a much higher probability of finding genotypes that have higher fitness. 2. In addition, the laws of physics will mandate that small changes in genotype will usually not cause huge changes in fitness. This is true because the weakness of action at a distance means that many genes will not interact strongly with each other. So the fitness surface is smoother than a random assignment of fitnesses to genotypes. That makes it much more possible to find genotypes that have higher fitness. Taking these two considerations into account – that an evolutionary search has genotypes whose fitnesses affect their reproduction, and that the laws of physics militate against strong interactions being typical – we see that Dembski, Ewert, and Marks’s argument does not show that Design is needed to have an evolutionary system that can improve fitness.

I note that there is an acknowledgement in the DEM paper as follows:

The authors thank Peter Olofsson and Dietmar Eben for helpful feedback on previous work of the Evolutionary Informatics Lab, feedback that has found its way into this paper.

This is the same Professor Olofsson referred to in the “Some Thanks for Professor Olofsson thread mentioned above. Dietmar Eben has blogged extensively on DEM’s ideas.

I’m not qualified to criticize the mathematics but I see no need to doubt that it is sound. However what I do query is whether the model is relevant to biology. The search for a solution to a problem is not a model of biological evolution and the concept of “active information” makes no sense in a biological context. Individual organisms or populations are not searching for optimal solutions to the task of survival. Organisms are passive in the process, merely affording themselves of the opportunity that existing and new niche environments provide. If anything is designing, it is the environment. I could suggest an anthropomorphism: the environment and its effects on the change in allele frequency are “a voice in the sky” whispering “warmer” or “colder”. There is the source of the active information.

I was recently made aware that this classic paper by Sewall Wright, The Roles of Mutation, Inbeeding, Crossbreeding and Selection in Evolution, is available online. Rather than demonstrating the “active information” in Dawkins’ Weasel program, which Dawkins freely confirmed is a poor model for evolution with its targeted search, would DEM like to look at Wright’s paper for a more realistic evolutionary model?

Perhaps, in conclusion, I should emphasize two things. Firstly, I am utterly opposed to censorship and suppression. I strongly support the free exchange of ideas and information. I strongly support any genuine efforts to develop “Intelligent Design” into a formal scientific endeavor. Jon Bartlett sees advantages in the field of computer science and I say good luck to him. Secondly, “fitness landscape” models are not accurate representations of the chaotic, fluid, interactive nature of the real environment . The environment is a kaleidoscope of constant change. Fitness peaks can erode and erupt. Had Sewall Wright been developing his ideas in the computer age, his laboriously hand-crafted diagrams would, I’m sure, have evolved (deliberate pun) into exquisite computer models.

References

History: Wm Dembski 1998 the Design inference, explanatory filter ( Elsberry criticizes the book for using a definition of “design” as what is left over after chance and regularity have been eliminated)

Wikipedia, upper probability bound, complex specified information, conservation of information, meaningful information.

Elsberry & Shallit

Theft over Toil John S. Wilkins, Wesley R. Elsberry 2001

Computational capacity of the universe Seth Lloyd 2001

Information Theory, Evolutionary Computation, and
Dembski’s “Complex Specified Information”
Elsberry and Shallit 2003

Specification: The Pattern That Signifies Intelligence by William A. Dembski August 15, 2005

Evaluation of Evolutionary and Genetic
Optimizers: No Free Lunch
Tom English 1996

Conservation of Information Made Simple William Dembski 2012

…evolutionary biologists possessing the mathematical tools to understand search are typically happy to characterize evolution as a form of search. And even those with minimal knowledge of the relevant mathematics fall into this way of thinking.

Take Brown University’s Kenneth Miller, a cell biologist whose knowledge of the relevant mathematics I don’t know. Miller, in attempting to refute ID, regularly describes examples of experiments in which some biological structure is knocked out along with its function, and then, under selection pressure, a replacement structure is evolved that recovers the function. What makes these experiments significant for Miller is that they are readily replicable, which means that the same systems with the same knockouts will undergo the same recovery under the same suitable selection regime. In our characterization of search, we would say the search for structures that recover function in these knockout experiments achieves success with high probability.

Suppose, to be a bit more concrete, we imagine a bacterium capable of producing a particular enzyme that allows it to live off a given food source. Next, we disable that enzyme, not by removing it entirely but by, say, changing a DNA base in the coding region for this protein, thus changing an amino acid in the enzyme and thereby drastically lowering its catalytic activity in processing the food source. Granted, this example is a bit stylized, but it captures the type of experiment Miller regularly cites.

So, taking these modified bacteria, the experimenter now subjects them to a selection regime that starts them off on a food source for which they don’t need the enzyme that’s been disabled. But, over time, they get more and more of the food source for which the enzyme is required and less and less of other food sources for which they don’t need it. Under such a selection regime, the bacterium must either evolve the capability of processing the food for which previously it needed the enzyme, presumably by mutating the damaged DNA that originally coded for the enzyme and thereby recovering the enzyme, or starve and die.

So where’s the problem for evolution in all this? Granted, the selection regime here is a case of artificial selection — the experimenter is carefully controlling the bacterial environment, deciding which bacteria get to live or die*. [(* My emphasis) Not correct – confirmed by Richard Lenski – AF] But nature seems quite capable of doing something similar. Nylon, for instance, is a synthetic product invented by humans in 1935, and thus was absent from bacteria for most of their history. And yet, bacteria have evolved the ability to digest nylon by developing the enzyme nylonase. Yes, these bacteria are gaining new information, but they are gaining it from their environments, environments that, presumably, need not be subject to intelligent guidance. No experimenter, applying artificial selection, for instance, set out to produce nylonase.

To see that there remains a problem for evolution in all this, we need to look more closely at the connection between search and information and how these concepts figure into a precise formulation of conservation of information. Once we have done this, we’ll return to the Miller-type examples of evolution to see why evolutionary processes do not, and indeed cannot, create the information needed by biological systems. Most biological configuration spaces are so large and the targets they present are so small that blind search (which ultimately, on materialist principles, reduces to the jostling of life’s molecular constituents through forces of attraction and repulsion) is highly unlikely to succeed. As a consequence, some alternative search is required if the target is to stand a reasonable chance of being located. Evolutionary processes driven by natural selection constitute such an alternative search. Yes, they do a much better job than blind search. But at a cost — an informational cost, a cost these processes have to pay but which they are incapable of earning on their own.

Meaningful Information

Meaningful Information Paul Vit´anyi 2004

The question arises whether it is possible to separate meaningful information from accidental information, and if so, how.

Evolutionary Informatics Publications

Conservation of Information in Relative Search Performance Dembski, Ewert, Marks 2013

Algorithmic Specified Complexity
in the Game of Life
Ewert, Dembski, Marks 2015

Digital Irreducible Complexity: A Survey of Irreducible
Complexity in Computer Simulations
Ewert 2014

On the Improbability of Algorithmic Specified
Complexity
Dembski, Ewert, Marks 2013

Wikipedia, upper probability bound, complex specified information, conservation of information, meaningful information.

A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search Dembski, Ewert, Marks 2013

Actually, in my talk, I work off of three papers, the last of which Felsenstein fails to cite and which is the most general, avoiding the assumption of uniform probability to which Felsenstein objects.

EN&V

Dietmar Eben’s blog

Dieb review “cost of successful search

Conservation of Information in Search:
Measuring the Cost of Success
Dembski, Marks 2009

The Search for a Search: Measuring the Information Cost of
Higher Level Search
Dembski, Marks 2009

Has Natural Selection Been Refuted? The Arguments of William Dembski Joe Felsenstein 2007

In conclusion
Dembski argues that there are theorems that prevent natural selection from explaining the adaptations that we see. His arguments do not work. There can be no theorem saying that adaptive information is conserved and cannot be increased by natural selection. Gene frequency changes caused by natural selection can be shown to generate specified information. The No Free Lunch theorem is mathematically correct, but it is inapplicable to real biology. Specified information, including complex specified information, can be generated by natural selection without needing to be “smuggled in”. When we see adaptation, we are not looking at positive evidence of billions and trillions of interventions by a designer. Dembski has not refuted natural selection as an explanation for adaptation.

ON DEMBSKI’S LAW OF CONSERVATION OF INFORMATION Erik Tellgren 2002

Comments
Either the denizens of UD have become unexpectedly prescient, or some-one/something has screwed up this thread. Any chance the mods could take a look?
Every comment by Aurelio has disappeared.Hangonasec
May 8, 2015
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truthbringer @ 394:
My comment at 415...
Mark Frank @ 400:
5MM #422...
kairrosfocus @ 531:
I suggest you take a look at 545 above...
ba77 @ 547:
Mung at 575, Sal is a strange bird...
Either the denizens of UD have become unexpectedly prescient, or some-one/something has screwed up this thread. Any chance the mods could take a look?Roy
May 8, 2015
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Actually it does. For one it eliminates entire classes of possible causes. For another it tells us there is most likely a purpose. And it also tells us which way the investigation goes- Stonehenge wouldn’t give up her secrets if viewed as a natural formation.
See my comment about to KF. Paley hit the nail on the head when he identified it was about the appearance of the design that needed to be explained. It's not just being useful for a purpose, but that something is well adapted to that purpose.
Do determining whether or not something was intelligently designed is key to any investigation.
Again, In the case of organisms, the knowledge is the proximate cause. if you can't explain the origin of that knowledge, then you can't explain the origin of those features. For example, some species of salamander can rebuild entire limbs, including bones, nerves, etc., but humans cannot. "Some designer wanted it that way" doesn't explain those differences. Evolutionary theory does. What I want from ideas are their content, not their providence. Saying "a designer wanted it that way" is a form of providence.Popperian
May 4, 2015
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Popperian:
So, what is ID’s explanation for that knowledge? “That’s just what some designer must have wanted” doesn’t explain anything.
Actually it does. For one it eliminates entire classes of possible causes. For another it tells us there is most likely a purpose. And it also tells us which way the investigation goes- Stonehenge wouldn't give up her secrets if viewed as a natural formation. Do determining whether or not something was intelligently designed is key to any investigation.Joe
May 3, 2015
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Joe:
Self-replication is the very thing that requires an explanation. That means Stonehenge is orders of magnitude less specified and complex than a living organism.
So, what is ID's explanation for that knowledge? "That's just what some designer must have wanted" doesn't explain anything. A designer that "just was" complete with the knowledge of which transformations of matter are required for an organism to self replicate, already preset, does not actually add to the explanation. That's because one could more efficiently state that organisms "just appeared", complete with the knowledge of which transformations of matter are required for an organism to self replicate, already preset. Neither actually improve the problem. And, to head of what would be a misrepresentation: no, neo-Darwinism isn't the latter.Popperian
May 3, 2015
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@KF#501 Again, what Paley brought to the table was to qualify what it means for something to have the appearance of design. And, therefore, what needs to be explained. Specifically, it's not just that something can be used for a purpose, but that it is well adapted to serving that purpose. That is, it could not be varied significantly without reducing its ability to suit that purpose. Quoting Palely...
Suppose, in the next place, that the person who found the watch should after some time discover that, in addition to all the properties which he had hitherto observed in it [--> cf. encapsulated, gated, metabolic automaton], it possessed the unexpected property of producing in the course of its movement another watch like itself — the thing is conceivable; that it contained within it a mechanism, a system of parts — a mold, for instance, or a complex adjustment of lathes, baffles, and other tools — evidently and separately calculated for this purpose [--> cf., von Neumann, code using self replication facility] . . . .
First, a watch, in the course of its movement, keeps time because it is well adapted to the task of keeping time. That is to say, it is a rare arrangement of matter that embodies the knowledge of how to keep time. As such, it would indeed be unexpected to find a watch that, in the corse of its movement, also made a copy of itself without also being well adapted to serve that purpose as well. Such an outcome would be unexpected because it would represent the spontaneous creation of knowledge. Any such watch that could make copies of itself would be well adapted to the purpose of making copies of itself. If a watch contained a mold, you could not vary the mold without significantly reducing its ability to make a copy of itself. The same could be said for a subsystem, such as a lathe. We could not vary a lathe significantly without reducing its ability to perform its purpose, to remove metal in a highly controlled way. As can be said for the particular steps the lathe would perform. Each would represent knowledge that is specific to that watch. IOW, any such watch would produce copies of itself would exhibit the appearance of design not because it merely served a purpose, but because it had been well adapted to that purpose. That process of adaptation occurs when the requisite knowledge was present. The problem with Paley's argument is that the reach is universal. That is, it has reach that encompasses anything that meets his own criteria for the appearance of design, even if that wasn't his intention. This includes Paley's ultimate designer. Specifically, any such ultimate designer could not be easily varied without reducing its ability to design organisms. Right? As such, his argument fails to actually solve the problem, as it rules out any such ultimate designer by contradiction. Or perhaps are you suggesting that Paley's ultimate designer could be varied significantly and yet still serve the purpose of design organisms just as well? Is that what you're suggesting? Second, we've made progress since Paley's time. Biological organisms are a class of replicator vehicle, as outlined by von Neumann. That means they contain the knowledge of what adaptations to perform to create copies of themselves. Yes, in the future, we will create universal constructors that will, by nature of being universal, be able to make copies of themselves, along with anything else. But such a universal constructor will be based on explanatory knowledge with universal reach, not non-explanatory knowledge, which are merely useful rules of thumb, with limited reach. Only people can create explanatory knowledge, while nature and people can create non-explanatory knowledge.Popperian
May 3, 2015
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KF : I'm not suggesting that the appearance of design doesn't need to be explained. The question is, what specifically is it about design that need to be explained. That's what Paley brought to the table. Paley explained why the watch would require a completely different kind of explanation than the stone. For all Paley knew about the earth's history, the stone could have been there from eternity. However, we know significantly more now about how the earth formed. Regardless, Paley's lack of knowledge in this case would be irrelevant to his contribution. His point was: that sort of explanation can explain how the stone came to be a stone, or the raw materials for his watch, but it could not explain the watch itself. The watch could not have been lying there forever. Nor could it have formed along with the earth when it cooled. Nor could it have assembled itself spontaneously from raw materials, like a stone or a crystal. Nor could it be a raw material itself. Why not? That's what Paley asked. "Why should not this answer serve for the watch as well as for the stone; why is it not as admissible in the second case as in the first?” Paley knew why. Because the watch not only serves a purpose, but is adapted to that purpose. Paley wrote:
“For this reason, and for no other, viz., that, when we come to inspect the watch, we perceive (what we could not discover in the stone) that its several parts are framed and put together for a purpose, e.g., that they are so formed and adjusted as to produce motion, and that motion so regulated as to point out the hour of the day.”
A watch is a rare configuration of matter. We cannot explain why the watch is like it is without referring to its purpose of keeping accurate time. That it can keep time and that its individual components are well suited for the task of time keeping is not a coincidence. Therefore, people must have designed that watch. From there Paley implied that this is even more true of living organisms, such as a mouse. Its individual parts are all constructed for a purpose, and therefore appear to be designed for that goal. Good designs are hard to vary.
“If the different parts had been differently shaped from what they are, of a different size from what they are, or placed after any other manner, or in any other order, than that in which they are placed, either no motion at all would have been carried on in the machine, or none which would have answered the use that is now served by it.”
IOW, being useful for a purpose, without being hard to vary for that purpose is not an indication of adaptation or design. Again, we can also use sun to keep time. However, all of is features would serve that purpose equally as well even if slightly or even massively altered. We found a use for the sun that it was never designed or adapted to provide. In this case, the knowledge is entirely found in us, and our sundials, not in the sun. But that knowledge is found in the watch, and the mouse. That's the significant difference I've been pointing out. So, the question is, how did the knowledge find its way into those things? Paley could only conceive of one explanation, which let him to his first mistake...
The inference we think is inevitable, that the watch must have had a maker....There cant be design without a designer; contrivance without a contriver; order without choice; arrangement without anything capable of arranging; subservience and relation to a purpose without that which could intend a purpose; means suitable to an end...without the end ever having been contemplated or the means accommodated to it. Arrangement, disposition of parts, subserviency of means to an end, relation of instruments to a use imply the presence of intelligence and mind.
Today, we know there can be design without a designer and knowledge without a knowing person who created it. (See Popper's Objective Knowledge) Non-explanatory knowledge can be crated by evolution. So, we really cannot blame Paley for being unaware of Darwin's theory, which is one of the most significant discoveries that has been made in science. While Paley hit the nail on the head with his understanding of the problem, he failed to realize his proposed solution does not actually solve it, and is even ruled out by his own argument. This is because Paley's ultimate designer would itself be well adapted to the purpose of designing organisms. It too would be a complex entity that is hard to vary without effecting its ability to perform the role it plays in that very same argument. It too would have the very same properties that need to be explained. As such, using the very same inferences, Paley would be forced to say that his ultimate designer needed a maker. Being a contradiction, the very argument from design, as defined by Paley, rules out the existence of an ultimate designer. Note that his is opposite of what Paley though he had achieved, This is because reach of his argument goes beyond his intention. That is it has universal reach for anything with the appearance of design, according to Paley's on criteria. To avoid this, it seems you'd need to expand intelligent design theory to assume that ID's designer could be significantly varied without effecting it's ability to design organisms. Is that what you're suggesting?Popperian
May 3, 2015
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Popperian:
Again, Stonehenge does not self replicate.
Self-replication is the very thing that requires an explanation. That means Stonehenge is orders of magnitude less specified and complex than a living organism.Joe
May 2, 2015
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Popperian:
Again, neo-Darwinsm is the theory that the knowledge of what transformations to perform when making a copy of an organism was not already preset at the outset. Since the concrete features of an organism are a function of that knowledge, as opposed to some other knowledge, the origin of those features is the origin of that knowledge.
Please reference this theory so we can all read what it actually says. And then try to respond to what I wrote
In addition,intention simply isn’t enough.
Not where you are concerned, anyway.
Finally, you seem to be assuming that ID’s designer is just like us, but smarter.
So what?
However, that isn’t explicitly part of intelligent design theory.
So what? ID doesn't prevent me from doing so.
In the absence of such an assumption, we cannot know what any such designers’ intentions might be, including making things appear as if they evolved naturally.
What does that mean? Design is natural, not supernatural. Intelligent Design Evolution would be natural. It just wouldn't be unguided.
Again, a theory that could explain anything explains nothing.
True and ID doesn't even attempt to explain everything. But anyway to rid us of Intelligent design just give us a viable alternative sans Intelligent Designer. Start with a model and testable entailments.Joe
May 2, 2015
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Joe
Darwinian and neo-Darwinian (modern synthesis) evolution preclude intention meaning natural selection precludes intention. Once you have intention you have left Darwinian and neo-Darwinian evolution behind and have entered the realm of Intelligent Design Evolution.
Again, neo-Darwinsm is the theory that the knowledge of what transformations to perform when making a copy of an organism was not already preset at the outset. Since the concrete features of an organism are a function of that knowledge, as opposed to some other knowledge, the origin of those features is the origin of that knowledge. In addition,intention simply isn't enough. For example, I'd like to create a drug that will cure cancer. However, regardless of my Intentions, this would only occur if i possessed the knowledge of what transformations are needed to occur via drug interactions that would cure cancer. I do not possess this knowledge. Nor do I even know where to start with creating any kind of drug, in general, which would preclude me from accentually discovering a cure when trying to solve some other illness by drug related means. So, regardless of my desire, I cannot create any such drug. Intention simply isn't enough. Furthermore, we've made progress in the field of epistemology. Specially, there are two kinds of knowledge: explanatory knowledge and non-explanatory knowledge. Both biological replicators and people can create knowledge of the former kind, while only people can create knowledge of the latter. Explanatory knowledge is created when we conjecture a theory about how the world works that we think will solve a specific problem. Finally, you seem to be assuming that ID's designer is just like us, but smarter. However, that isn't explicitly part of intelligent design theory. Nor is it clear why that would be the case. It wouldn't have anything to do with scripture, would it? In the absence of such an assumption, we cannot know what any such designers' intentions might be, including making things appear as if they evolved naturally. That could be an intentional result too, right? Again, a theory that could explain anything explains nothing. Even then, there could be an entire committee of designers that do not agree with each other, resulting in a compromise that no one wants. Or there could be two equally powerful, yet completely opposed designers that are stuck in some kind of battle in which neither has won. In other words, even if these designers possessed the knowledge, intent simply isn't enough to guarantee the result would be intuitional outcomes. It's unclear why these logical possibilities are not taken into account, unless the designer is supposedly an ultimate designer. But, again, this results in the same problem I've mentioned before. Any such ultimate designer would itself be well adapted for the purpose of designing organism. As such, it too would equally qualify for the need of a designer, etc. The claim that we must stop somewhere is justifcationism and results in an arbitrary end of the application of reason.Popperian
May 2, 2015
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Popperian, How many times do I have to point you to where Paley took his watch example next, and what this highlights about the FSCO/I involved in a self-replication facility? I really have to ask this. Let me clip again, for information: >> Suppose, in the next place, that the person who found the watch should after some time discover that, in addition to all the properties which he had hitherto observed in it, it possessed the unexpected property of producing in the course of its movement another watch like itself — the thing is conceivable; that it contained within it a mechanism, a system of parts — a mold, for instance, or a complex adjustment of lathes, baffles, and other tools — evidently and separately calculated for this purpose [==> update, vNSR, with tape [a bar of cams is a program, as was used in so many C18 automata], and constructor keyed in as an ADDITIONAL facility integrated with the main machine — of course, IIRC a full size clanking unit considered by NASA was many, many tons in scale] . . . . The first effect would be to increase his admiration of the contrivance, and his conviction of the consummate skill of the contriver. Whether he regarded the object of the contrivance, the distinct apparatus, the intricate, yet in many parts intelligible mechanism by which it was carried on, he would perceive in this new observation nothing but an additional reason for doing what he had already done — for referring the construction of the watch to design and to supreme art [--> notice, the impact of seeing ADDITIONAL FSCO/I] . . . . He would reflect, that though the watch before him were, in some sense, the maker of the watch, which, was fabricated in the course of its movements, yet it was in a very different sense from that in which a carpenter, for instance, is the maker of a chair — the author of its contrivance, the cause of the relation of its parts to their use. >> I trust the flawed analogy flawed objection and associated strawman caricatures dating all the way back to Paley will now be retired. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2015
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I wrote:
KF, my point is, regardless if we lacked of a better explanation now, as Paley did then, his designer still doesn’t actually solve the problem. It merely pushes it up a level without improving it. As such, it fails.
Mike:
One can ask, and get the proper answer, to the question, “who built Stonehenge” without explaining how the builders came into existence.
Again, Stonehenge does not self replicate. It does not contain the knowledge of how to copy itself. As such, the knowledge of what transformations would be necessary to build it must be explained by knowledge outside of Stonehenge. Correct? On the other hand, organisms do self replicate and do contain the knowledge of how to build a copies of themselves. The concrete features they exhibit are adaptations brought about by transformations of matter. So, the origin of those features is the origin of the knowledge of what transformations to perform. Saying that knowledge was merely previously located one place (in an abstract designer) and copied to another (in an organism), doesn't actually add to the explanation for those concrete features.. Unless you explain why that concert knowledge is what it is, opposed to some other concrete knowledge that could have been there, you've explained nothing. The proximate cause is that knowledge, As such, we need not reference an external source. At best, the current crop of ID proponents can say "that's just what the designer must have wanted", which doesn't explain anything. So, ID doesn't actually explain those concrete features, while Darwinism does. And it did so before the discovery of DNA. That discovery is part of the significant criticism that Darwinism has withstood. Furthermore, as Popper pointed out, 'good' theories make prohibitions. The more a theory prohibits, the better. However, ID's designer is abstract and has no defined limitations. As such, there is no limitation as to what the designer knew, when it knew it, etc. that would have logical consequences for the current state of the biosphere. By nature of being able to explain anything, it explains nothing. For example, ID's designer, not being limited from knowing how to build any organism that has, does or will exist, at the outset, could have created organisms in the order of most complex to least complex, or even all at once. In contrast to Lamarckism or the current crop of ID, Darwinism has always been the theory that the knowledge of how what adaptations to perform was genuinely created over time. It never existed at the outset. This has corresponding consequences for the current state of the system. Namely, that organisms would appear in the order of least complex to most complex. Nature cannot "construct" until it creates the knowledge of how to build it. And by knowledge, I mean in Popper's definition of useful information that is independent of a knowing subject, as outlined in Objective Knowledge.Popperian
May 2, 2015
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Meanwhile, over at TSZ Joe Felsenstein claims to have an answer. But he seems to be groping for where it is.Mung
May 1, 2015
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Well Joe, we're going to have to disagree on this. She understood CSI, but she didn't understand evolution.Mung
May 1, 2015
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Don't get your hopes up Joe.Mung
May 1, 2015
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Neil Rickert finally gets it:
For Gregory’s benefit: Technology evolves. Computer operating systems evolve. Computer programming languages evolve. Yet all of these are the product of human intentions. Use of the word “evolution” does not preclude that intention plays a role.
Darwinian and neo-Darwinian (modern synthesis) evolution preclude intention meaning natural selection precludes intention. Once you have intention you have left Darwinian and neo-Darwinian evolution behind and have entered the realm of Intelligent Design Evolution.Joe
May 1, 2015
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Well, Mung, she sed that she did such a thing but in reality it didn't come close. She doesn't seem to understand the concept of CSI.Joe
May 1, 2015
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Joe, didn't Elizabeth design a program to show that natural selection could create CSI? Doesn't that just prove that evolution is intelligently designed?Mung
May 1, 2015
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Carpathian, Evolutionary and genetic algorithms already model Intelligent Design evolution. How do you propose to model unguided evolution?Joe
May 1, 2015
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BTW, I should note that if islands of function are as shape and location shifting as sand dunes/spits/ barrier islands does not make a material difference to the information bridge challenge. KFkairosfocus
April 30, 2015
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Carpathian, Neither I nor J B S Haldane ever suggested that the human brain is not composed of atoms. What HALDANE raised is a key issue that points to the self referential incoherence of reducing mind to brain and effectively software running on it. The reductionist project, especially in computing terms, can be challenged i/l/o this, from Reppert:
. . . let us suppose that brain state A, which is token identical to the thought that all men are mortal, and brain state B, which is token identical to the thought that Socrates is a man, together cause the belief that Socrates is mortal. It isn’t enough for rational inference that these events be those beliefs, it is also necessary that the causal transaction be in virtue of the content of those thoughts . . . [[But] if naturalism is true, then the propositional content is irrelevant to the causal transaction that produces the conclusion, and [[so] we do not have a case of rational inference. In rational inference, as Lewis puts it, one thought causes another thought not by being, but by being seen to be, the ground for it. But causal transactions in the brain occur in virtue of the brain’s being in a particular type of state that is relevant to physical causal transactions.
My own comment is that computation, inherently is categorically distinct from rational contemplation, and to try to derive the latter from the former is to try to get North by heading due West. KFkairosfocus
April 30, 2015
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Joe:
And if they ever find a way to model it they will have the “proof” that I am correct.
That is precisely what I am going to attempt to do. It would be great to be able to model both ID and evolutionary solutions to body plans and see which results in a better fit for a given environment.Carpathian
April 30, 2015
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kairosfocus: The brain IS composed of atoms. That is undeniable. How best to describe a mind is something else. I am trying to do just that by building a software architecture to model large systems such as ID and evolution. Hopefully I can pick up enough from the ID side to try and come up with a system that will allow the ID side to design towards a known biological goal.Carpathian
April 30, 2015
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Joe, you are right, the contrast made indicates a telling gap on say familiarity with the view of the co-founder of the modern evolutionary theory, Wallace -- as has been repeatedly pointed out here at UD, titled The World of Life: a manifestation of Creative Power, Directive Mind and Ultimate Purpose Kind of could not be clearer or more direct. Preface:
But besides the discussion of these and several other allied subjects, the most prominent feature of my book is that I enter into a popular yet critical examination of those underlying fundamental problems which Darwin purposely excluded from his works as being beyond the scope of his enquiry. Such are, the nature and causes of Life itself ; and more especially of its most fundamental and mysterious powers growth and reproduction. I first endeavour to show (in Chapter XIV.) by a care-ful consideration of the structure of the bird’s feather; of the marvellous transformations of the higher insects ; and, more especially of the highly elaborated wing-scales of the Lepidoptera (as easily accessible examples of what is going on in every part of the structure of every living thing), the absolute necessity for an organising and directive Life-Principle in order to account for the very possibility of these complex outgrowths. I argue, that they necessarily imply first, a Creative Power, which so constituted matter as to render these marvels possible ; next, a directive Mind which is demanded at every step of what we term growth, and often look upon as so simple and natural a process as to require no explanation ; and, lastly, an ultimate Purpose, in the very existence of the whole vast life-world in all its long course of evolution throughout the eons of geological time. This Purpose, which alone throws light on many of the mysteries of its mode of evolution, I hold to be the development of Man, the one crowning product of the whole cosmic process of life-development ; the only being which can to some extent comprehend nature; which can perceive and trace out her modes of action ; which can appreciate the hidden forces and motions everywhere at work, and can deduce from them a supreme and over-ruling Mind as their necessary cause. For those who accept some such view as I have indicated, I show (in Chapters XV. and XVI.) how strongly it is sup-ported and enforced by a long series of facts and co-relations which we can hardly look upon as all purely accidental coincidences. Such are the infinitely varied products of living things which serve man’s purposes and man’s alone not only by supplying his material wants, and by gratifying his higher tastes and emotions, but as rendering possible many of those advances in the arts and in science which we claim to be the highest proofs of his superiority to the brutes, as well as of his advancing civilisation. From a consideration of these better-known facts I proceed (in Chapter XVII.) to an exposition of the mystery of cell-growth ; to a consideration of the elements in their special relation to the earth itself and to the life-world ; while in the last chapter I endeavour to show the purpose of that law of diversity which seems to pervade the whole material Universe. [Pp. vi - vii, preface, 1914 UK Edn.]
What is mutually contradictory is design and evolutionary materialism. But that is a philosophy, not science, at its root. And, as has been highlighted over and over on good reason, a self-falsifying, self referentially incoherent one. For example, here is J B S Haldane:
"It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For if my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” ["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209.]
Of course, all of this ha been repeatedly pointed out and never cogently responded to. The evidence points to an entrenched ideological position, one that will only be opened up to change when things crash so undeniably that there is no choice. As happened with the Marxists 25 years past. KFkairosfocus
April 30, 2015
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Elizabeth thinks that evolution and Intelligent Design are mutually exclusive:
It’s really the answer to why evolutionary processes are both better, and worse, than intelligent design
She is a grand equivocator. She actually thinks that humans using GAs to find solutions, ie design, means that evolution did it and not the designers of the program. How misguided can she be?Joe
April 30, 2015
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For a good laugh just read Alan Fox's post filled of nonsensical bald declarations: Alan's evidence-free diatribe- The environment is the guide and the designer? Test it, Alan. Show us that the environment can guide and design wrt biology. Model it- do something but keep saying your oft-refuted drool.Joe
April 30, 2015
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More hilarity from TSZ- They cannot figure out how their brand of evolution is impotent. It isn't a search. It is whatever happens. Some of whatever happens gets eliminated and some doesn't. Whatever happens to survive and reproduce does so. It's a whole bunch of whatever happens and happens to survive. That can't even produce the different breeds of dogs which is much easier than macroevolution. And that is the impotence of their process. And if they ever find a way to model it they will have the "proof" that I am correct.Joe
April 30, 2015
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Too funny- Mung has the TSZ ilk admitting that their brand of evolution is impotent and they are too dim to realize it.Joe
April 30, 2015
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JF (HT Mung, attn EL),
At the UD thread there were some loud dismissals of models that had genotypes and a fitness surface. It was declared that these genetic algorithms weren’t models of evolution. Actually DEM called such models “evolutionary search”, so they don’t seem to agree with the ID supporters in the UD thread.
Pardon, but no. The concern is not whether hill climbing can work incrementally to give local optimisation or some close cousin to that; which can legitimately be described as evolution and tracked to correlate with the actually empirically observed case: microevolution. That hill climbing approach, we all learned in our first calculus course as we seek maxima, minima and points of inflexion. The issue at stake is that for systems exhibiting a certain character, functionally specific complex interactive Wicken wiring diagram based organisation and associated information FSCO/I for short . . . the material subset of CSI . . . the requisites of interaction that yields particular function call for correctly arranged and coupled, well matched parts. Thus we are locked down to a narrow zone or zones Ti ( i = 1 to n as usual) in the much wider set of possible clumped and/or scattered arrangements constituting the configuration space W. Where Ti is such that length of the string of structured y/n q's to describe configs exhibiting FSCO/I is at least 500 - 1,000 bits, i.e. 72 - 143 ASCII characters. Not a lot. This is directly tied to Kolmogorov complexity. For practical cases think AutoCAD etc. This is what sets up the needle in haystack search challenge that Marks, Dembski et al have consistently pointed to as the setting for active, bridging information. The body plan origin challenge, starting with the first one at the root of Darwin's tree of life. In effect, AI is the bridge between the practical infeasibility of blindly finding a Ti in W, and the location on or next to a Ti that sets up hill climbing through a much narrower incremental scope of search. In an Easter Egg hunt, warmer/colder allows ascent to an optimum, and the like. Designers of complex systems typically use insight to set up a near-feasible system, then do development testing and troubleshooting to incrementally achieve local then interface then systemwide reliable and adequate functionality. So the focal problem is that informational bridge. It cannot feasibly be crossed incrementally, as there is no feedback from increments in functionality in the vast zone of non-function. And sol system or observed cosmos scope resources across 10^17 s as generally deemed available, are hopelessly short of more than superficial search. 500 - 1,000 bits worth of config space is 3.27*10^150 - 1.07*10^301 possibilities. At the upper end, at 10^14 tries per second with 10^80 atoms as observers the 10^111 tries in aggregate viewed as one straw would be compared to a cubical haystack that dwarfs our observed cosmos. The only actually empirically warranted adequate cause of crossing such a bridge is intelligently directed configuration. On trillions of cases all around, starting with nuts and bolts, gear trains and web pages. And as for metrics of AI, a search is a sampled subset of the config space of scope W. Therefore, it comes from the set of subsets, of cardinality 2^W. Accordingly, in the context of needle in haystack challenge it is reasonable to take a flat random sample as a yardstick, typical blind search. A blindly picked, superior bridging search confronts the problem of search for a golden search in that much wider space and so direct search is reasonable as a typical case. Thus, out-performance of flat random search is a good metric of injected, bridging active information that guides configuration to [near-]functional form. For the likelihood of success has been drastically improved relative to benchmark. Begging the bridging question, then, does not adequately answer it. Suggesting that technological systems do not reproduce but life forms do, begs the question of where the FSCO/I involved in cellular replication and organism level reproduction comes from. As Paley put on the table in 1804 with his Ch 2 elaboration of the watch found in the field in Ch 1 of his Nat Theol: what would be the effect of observing that in the course of its movement, the watch replicates itself using a process that is FSCO/I-rich. The added integrated FSCO/I to effect this, multiplies the bridging challenge. In effect the original entity now comes with a built-in factory with assembly instructions. Thus, the root of Darwin's Tree of Life icon (ToL) must be answered to, in Darwin's pond or the like; to get to a gated, encapsulated metabolic automaton with an integral von Neumann kinematic self replicator with part synthesis and assembly instructions codes and algorithms. Likewise, embryologically feasible, ecological niche survivable body plans have to be addressed for OO body plans (OOBP). Dozens of times over. I repeat, the only empirically warranted adequate cause of FSCO/I is design; intelligently directed configuration that bridges the information gap to solve the blind search needle in haystack challenge. Something you and I demonstrate every time we compose a complex comment. Something the computers we use further demonstrate. Something we have no good reason to see OOL or OOBP evading. I also notice from excerpts, that some are objecting to negative probability metrics (and presumably directly linked config alternative count) metrics of information. Information rests on distinct and recognisable states amidst alternatives that can represent or reflect or describe states of affairs or guide actions from sets of alternatives. Its basic level is the two state alternative, the binary digit or bit. The simplest alternative. A simple flat random alternative for a string of bits of length n will show that number of possibilities for n bits is 2^n. This invites a log measure of info, as that gives additive properties. Instead of 2^(m + n) states, we discuss m + n bits. Such is of course the common info metric on file sizes, which de facto uses Bernoulli indifference to estimate info carrying capacity of files on a PC. The log metric turns out to be readily linked to a log(1/p), probability metric, yielding negative log probability. More complex versions may be developed for cases where a flat distribution of state configs is not applicable (based on weighted average techniques), but this does not materially change the case. Cf comment 5 above for a clip on this preliminary matter -- one of those swept away by AS which turns out to be just as advertised; foundational background required to think the matter through clearly. In short, for the better part of a century, information and surprising configuration from a set of alternatives, thus also [im-]probability have been inextricably linked in the foundations of communication theory. This obviously extends to the informational content of FSCO/I and the bridge from what a reasonable blind random search/sample process would credibly do and hitting zones Ti. Thus active, bridging information is a reasonable concept, and it is not unreasonable to measure it based on its capability to bridge an info gap. Mathematical elaborations are important, but they are just that, elaborations. We must not lose sight of the forest due to a tangled mass of trees. The issue is not hill climbing within an island of function but to bridge to such islands Ti in the face of a much wider but overwhelmingly non functional set of clumped or scattered configurational possibilities, W. Where the situation confronts blind search approaches on sol system or observed cosmos gamuts with a needle in haystack challenge. Thus, the issue of bridging, active information that finds Ti is on the table. And, appeals to self replication and/or reproduction must address origin of such FSCO/I rich processes integrated with functionality of life forms. I must strongly insist, the only actually observed, empirically warranted adequate causal factor that explains cases of FSCO/I is intelligently directed configuration, AKA design. So, we are inductively entitled to infer with some confidence from FSCO/I to design as material causal factor; with the usual inductive proviso that thus is best current explanation. However, the circumstances over the past few thousand years of thought on the matter make it highly unlikely that this will be overturned. Design is the only truly serious, empirically warranted adequate cause of FSCO/I. Precisely, because of the need for bridging information that reflects the blind needle in haystack search challenge. KFkairosfocus
April 30, 2015
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Joe Felsenstein @ TSZ:
1. At the UD thread there were some loud dismissals of models that had genotypes and a fitness surface. It was declared that these genetic algorithms weren’t models of evolution. Actually DEM called such models “evolutionary search”, so they don’t seem to agree with the ID supporters in the UD thread.
Mung
April 29, 2015
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