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BA77 draws out Pearcey on the illusion of self as an implication of Evolutionary Materialism

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Over the past day or so, following a News post, the self referential incoherences of evolutionary materialism have been coming under the microscope here at UD. In the course of such, the indefatigable (but often “misunderestimated”) BA77 has again struck gold.

As in per famed eccentric and insightful mystic, William Blake, Tiger, tiger, burning bright . . .

The_Tyger_BM_a_1794

And, how could we honour BA77 without a vid? So . .

[youtube uuiusIIOqY4]

(While we are at it, Eye of the Tiger, vid + lyrics.)

Well worth headlining:

_______________

BA77: >>I like the nuance that Dr. Pearcey draws out. It is not only that, under materialistic premises, our perceptions may be false, it is also that, under materialistic premises, free will, consciouness and even our sense of self, are illusions!

Why Evolutionary Theory Cannot Survive Itself – Nancy Pearcey – March 8, 2015

Excerpt: Steven Pinker writes, “Our brains were shaped for fitness, not for truth. Sometimes the truth is adaptive, but sometimes it is not.” The upshot is that survival is no guarantee of truth. If survival is the only standard, we can never know which ideas are true and which are adaptive but false.

To make the dilemma even more puzzling, evolutionists tell us that natural selection has produced all sorts of false concepts in the human mind. Many evolutionary materialists maintain that free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, even our sense of self is an illusion – and that all these false ideas were selected for their survival value.

So how can we know whether the theory of evolution itself is one of those false ideas? The theory undercuts itself.,,,
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2…..94171.html

Thus, the problem is much worse than the problem that we might believe false things about a sabre tooth tiger and choose to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. The problem is that our material brains falsely believe that they exist as real persons in the first place, and that our brains, as illusory persons, also falsely believe that they somehow have a free choice whether to tell the material body to run away from the tiger or not!

Moreover, as if all of the preceding was not already the very definition of absurdity, under materialistic premises the tiger’s brain is also having an illusion that it really exists as a tiger, and its brain is also under the illusion that it has a choice as whether it wants to eat us or whether it wants to take a nap.

Moreover, while all this is a very compelling philosophical proof that the naturalistic/materialistic position is patently absurd, due to advances in science we don’t have to rely solely on this compelling philosophical proof. In other words, we can underscore our compelling philosophical argument with rigid empirical evidence.

For instance, to underscore the fact that we have free will, we can refer to the quantum experiment of ‘Delayed choice for entanglement swapping’:

“If we attempt to attribute an objective meaning to the quantum state of a single system, curious paradoxes appear: quantum effects mimic not only instantaneous action-at-a-distance but also, as seen here, influence of future actions on past events, even after these events have been irrevocably recorded.”
Asher Peres, Delayed choice for entanglement swapping. J. Mod. Opt. 47, 139-143 (2000).

Quantum physics mimics spooky action into the past – April 23, 2012
Excerpt: The authors experimentally realized a “Gedankenexperiment” called “delayed-choice entanglement swapping”, formulated by Asher Peres in the year 2000.,,,
According to the famous words of Albert Einstein, the effects of quantum entanglement appear as “spooky action at a distance”. The recent experiment has gone one remarkable step further. “Within a naïve classical world view, quantum mechanics can even mimic an influence of future actions on past events”, says Anton Zeilinger.
http://phys.org/news/2012-04-q…..ction.html

You can see a more complete explanation of the startling results of the experiment at the 9:11 minute mark of the following video:

Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser Experiment Explained – 2014 video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6HLjpj4Nt4

In other words, if my conscious choices really are just merely the result of whatever state the material particles in my brain happen to be in in the past (deterministic) how in blue blazes are my choices instantaneously effecting the state of material particles into the past? This experiment is simply impossible for any coherent materialistic presupposition!

And to underscore the fact that consciousness is not emergent from a material basis, we can reference this recent experiment from quantum mechanics (among many experiments).,,
Dean Radin, who spent years at Princeton testing different aspects of consciousness, recently performed experiments testing the possible role of consciousness in the double slit. His results were, not so surprisingly, very supportive of consciousness’s central role in the experiment:

Consciousness and the double-slit interference pattern: six experiments – Radin – 2012
Abstract: A double-slit optical system was used to test the possible role of consciousness in the collapse of the quantum wavefunction. The ratio of the interference pattern’s double-slit spectral power to its single-slit spectral power was predicted to decrease when attention was focused toward the double slit as compared to away from it. Each test session consisted of 40 counterbalanced attention-toward and attention-away epochs, where each epoch lasted between 15 and 30 s(seconds). Data contributed by 137 people in six experiments, involving a total of 250 test sessions, indicate that on average the spectral ratio decreased as predicted (z = -4:36, p = 6·10^-6). Another 250 control sessions conducted without observers present tested hardware, software, and analytical procedures for potential artifacts; none were identified (z = 0:43, p = 0:67). Variables including temperature, vibration, and signal drift were also tested, and no spurious influences were identified. By contrast, factors associated with consciousness, such as meditation experience, electrocortical markers of focused attention, and psychological factors including openness and absorption, significantly correlated in predicted ways with perturbations in the double-slit interference pattern. The results appear to be consistent with a consciousness-related interpretation of the quantum measurement problem.
http://www.deanradin.com/paper…..0final.pdf

And to experimentally support the Theistic contention that really do exist as real persons, we can reference this:

Dr. Gary Mathern – What Can You Do With Half A Brain? – video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrKijBx_hAw

Removing Half of Brain Improves Young Epileptics’ Lives: – 1997
Excerpt: “We are awed by the apparent retention of memory and by the retention of the child’s personality and sense of humor,” Dr. Eileen P. G. Vining,,
Dr. John Freeman, the director of the Johns Hopkins Pediatric Epilepsy Center, said he was dumbfounded at the ability of children to regain speech after losing the half of the brain that is supposedly central to language processing.
”It’s fascinating,” Dr. Freeman said. ”The classic lore is that you can’t change language after the age of 2 or 3.”
But Dr. Freeman’s group has now removed diseased left hemispheres in more than 20 patients, including three 13-year-olds whose ability to speak transferred to the right side of the brain in much the way that Alex’s did.,,,
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08…..lives.html

In further comment from the neuro-surgeons in the John Hopkins study:

“Despite removal of one hemisphere, the intellect of all but one of the children seems either unchanged or improved. Intellect was only affected in the one child who had remained in a coma, vigil-like state, attributable to peri-operative complications.”

Strange but True: When Half a Brain Is Better than a Whole One – May 2007
Excerpt: Most Hopkins hemispherectomy patients are five to 10 years old. Neurosurgeons have performed the operation on children as young as three months old. Astonishingly, memory and personality develop normally. ,,,
Another study found that children that underwent hemispherectomies often improved academically once their seizures stopped. “One was champion bowler of her class, one was chess champion of his state, and others are in college doing very nicely,” Freeman says.
Of course, the operation has its downside: “You can walk, run—some dance or skip—but you lose use of the hand opposite of the hemisphere that was removed. You have little function in that arm and vision on that side is lost,” Freeman says. Remarkably, few other impacts are seen. ,,,
http://www.scientificamerican……than-whole

More evidence of brain plasticity is here

The Case for the Soul – InspiringPhilosophy – (4:03 minute mark, Brain Plasticity including Schwartz’s work) – Oct. 2014 – video
The Mind is able to modify the brain (brain plasticity). Moreover, Idealism explains all anomalous evidence of personality changes due to brain injury, whereas physicalism cannot explain mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBsI_ay8K70

In fact not only is the mind able to modify the structure of the brain, but not the mind has been shown to have the ability to reach all the way down and effect the genetic expression of our bodies:

Scientists Finally Show How Your Thoughts Can Cause Specific Molecular Changes To Your Genes, – December 10, 2013
Excerpt: “To the best of our knowledge, this is the first paper that shows rapid alterations in gene expression within subjects associated with mindfulness meditation practice,” says study author Richard J. Davidson, founder of the Center for Investigating Healthy Minds and the William James and Vilas Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
“Most interestingly, the changes were observed in genes that are the current targets of anti-inflammatory and analgesic drugs,” says Perla Kaliman, first author of the article and a researcher at the Institute of Biomedical Research of Barcelona, Spain (IIBB-CSIC-IDIBAPS), where the molecular analyses were conducted.,,,
the researchers say, there was no difference in the tested genes between the two groups of people at the start of the study. The observed effects were seen only in the meditators following mindfulness practice. In addition, several other DNA-modifying genes showed no differences between groups, suggesting that the mindfulness practice specifically affected certain regulatory pathways.
http://www.tunedbody.com/scien…..ges-genes/

Thus, not only is atheistic materialism phiosophically absurd in the extreme, but atheistic materialism is also directly undercut by empirical evidence.

If we were dealing with a science instead of a religion, this would be devastating for the hypothesis of materialism!>>

________________

We may want to debate the Quantum views BA77 brings to the table, etc, but the key point drawn out from Pearcey is still there on the middle of the table:

To make the dilemma even more puzzling, evolutionists tell us that natural selection has produced all sorts of false concepts in the human mind. Many evolutionary materialists maintain that free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, even our sense of self is an illusion – and that all these false ideas were selected for their survival value.

Thus also, BA77’s challenge:

Thus, the problem is much worse than the problem that we might believe false things about a sabre tooth tiger and choose to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. The problem is that our material brains falsely believe that they exist as real persons in the first place, and that our brains, as illusory persons, also falsely believe that they somehow have a free choice whether to tell the material body to run away from the tiger or not!

Moreover, as if all of the preceding was not already the very definition of absurdity, under materialistic premises the tiger’s brain is also having an illusion that it really exists as a tiger, and its brain is also under the illusion that it has a choice as whether it wants to eat us or whether it wants to take a nap.

And in reply, what do our Evolutionary Materialism advocates have to say? . . . END

Comments
"have your own thoughts some time." CHartsil, haven't seen much coming out of your mouth that could be considered "your own thoughts". You seem to simply regurgitate tired old refuted arguments. Not unexpected though considering the codswallop you zealots believe in.humbled
March 12, 2015
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Joe, qu­it being retardedCHartsil
March 12, 2015
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CHartsil, quit being an ignorant coward and pathological liar.Joe
March 12, 2015
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Joe, quit bei­ng retarded.CHartsil
March 12, 2015
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CHartsil doesn't have any thoughts of its own. All it can do is parrot the party propaganda.Joe
March 12, 2015
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So the options are withdrawing having pointed out that you have to try to stifle conversation with a wall of copypasta or what? Again, have your own thoughts some time. It's actually pretty nice.CHartsil
March 12, 2015
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CHartsil, you have made actually a three way false accusation of dishonesty as just warned. Withdraw it or leave this thread, forthwith. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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The problem is it's not evidence so it has to be thrown together in Gish gallop form. WARNING: This is a double personal accusation of dishonesty. It accuses Mr Gish and in this case both BA77 and myself. Withdraw it or leave this thread. KFCHartsil
March 12, 2015
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LoL! @ CHartsil! Evidence is evidence regardless of who produced it. No need to reinvent the wheel. As for forming your own thoughts, well your thoughts have all been shown to be nonsensical.Joe
March 12, 2015
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KF, quit clogging up the discussion with nonsensical copypasta. Form your own thoughtsCHartsil
March 12, 2015
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If free will is an illusion then in reality we control nothing, not even our thoughts. The experience of a sense of "certainty" about things is then just something forced upon us, unrelated to objective truth. The notion of "logic" becomes meaningless. No matter how certain we are that the shortest distance between two points really is a straight line, that idea isn't necessarily true, it is just that forces beyond our control reliably force a sense of certainty upon us when it is expressed. Thinking isn't really something we do; it is a process of which we are aware, taking us wherever we are forced to go. How anybody could deny free will is truly mysterious. Such a notion plumbs the depths of asininity, boldly taking it where no man has gone before. And if I think actually believing such a notion is the very essence of an ignorant, darkened mind, those who don't believe in free will have no right to be offended. After all, according to them, my reaching such a conclusion is due to my experience of a sense of certainty that was brought about by forces beyond my control. They can't blame me. They can't blame anybody for anything. (Hmmmm ... Do you suppose that is the whole point of denying free will?) And why should they expect anybody to take them seriously, anyway? According to their own views, those aren't really their own views, but are the views of whatever forces possess them. They do seem to be possessed, and they can't blame me for saying so.harry
March 12, 2015
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BA, useful additional thoughts. The C S Lewis animation is well worth viewing. TJ, Serious points. Indeed, one sign that the evo mat scheme is wrong is that it is unworkable. We cannot collectively live as if it were true. KFkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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KF, why try to reason with people who believe that truth evolves, that their brain evolved, and that they don't even exist as a person? You don't think they can consciously change their mind or anything do you? They are slaves to the processes going on in their evolved monkey brains. If you don't want to believe something, one fights against strong bias when evaluating the evidence. This truth is true both for Theists and Materialists. Actually, the fact that these guys do enter into debate, trust their own minds for the most part, and expect us to be able to reason, make choices, draw conclusions, and change positions shows that they cannot live by the tenets of their own worldview! Perhaps it shows that they really do not believe the mind is nothing more than a chemically controlled mind that evolved from a monkey brain and ultimately from a soup of chemicals. One important test of the trustworthiness of a worldview in my eyes is this: Does your worldview work? Can you live by it? If materialism is true, there is no ultimate or intrinsic purpose to life, but who can really live that way? If materialism is true, there is no foundation for reason, beauty, truth, morality, consciousness, personhood, etc., and there is no reason we should trust our minds. Who can really life consistently with those beliefs? Maybe inconsistency/incoherency don't matter in a purposeless world that evolved out of chemicals?tjguy
March 12, 2015
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OT: CS Lewis doodle has a new animation up: The Reality of the Moral Law by C.S. Lewis Doodle (BBC Talk 2 / Mere Christianity Chapter 3) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqsAzlFS91Abornagain77
March 12, 2015
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I would like to point out that this 'you are an illusion' problem goes beyond evolutionary epistemology. In fact, the most profound confusion in modern physics itself is the fallacious belief that the blind (it just happened) causality of atheists is superior to the agent causality of theists in explanatory power.
A Professor’s Journey out of Nihilism: Why I am not an Atheist – University of Wyoming – J. Budziszewski Excerpt page12: “There were two great holes in the argument about the irrelevance of God. The first is that in order to attack free will, I supposed that I understood cause and effect; I supposed causation to be less mysterious than volition. If anything, it is the other way around. I can perceive a logical connection between premises and valid conclusions. I can perceive at least a rational connection between my willing to do something and my doing it. But between the apple and the earth, I can perceive no connection at all. Why does the apple fall? We don’t know. “But there is gravity,” you say. No, “gravity” is merely the name of the phenomenon, not its explanation. “But there are laws of gravity,” you say. No, the “laws” are not its explanation either; they are merely a more precise description of the thing to be explained, which remains as mysterious as before. For just this reason, philosophers of science are shy of the term “laws”; they prefer “lawlike regularities.” To call the equations of gravity “laws” and speak of the apple as “obeying” them is to speak as though, like the traffic laws, the “laws” of gravity are addressed to rational agents capable of conforming their wills to the command. This is cheating, because it makes mechanical causality (the more opaque of the two phenomena) seem like volition (the less). In my own way of thinking the cheating was even graver, because I attacked the less opaque in the name of the more. The other hole in my reasoning was cruder. If my imprisonment in a blind causality made my reasoning so unreliable that I couldn’t trust my beliefs, then by the same token I shouldn’t have trusted my beliefs about imprisonment in a blind causality. But in that case I had no business denying free will in the first place.” http://www.undergroundthomist.org/sites/default/files/WhyIAmNotAnAtheist.pdf
and Lewis's treatment of the subject is also worth noting
“to say that a stone falls to earth because it’s obeying a law, makes it a man and even a citizen” – CS Lewis “In the whole history of the universe the laws of nature have never produced, (i.e. caused), a single event.” C.S. Lewis – doodle video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_20yiBQAIlk
The Christian founders of modern science understood the distinction between a mathematical description of a law and the agent causality behind the law quite well.
“God is not a “God of the gaps”, he is God of the whole show.,,, C. S. Lewis put it this way: “Men became scientific because they expected law in nature and they expected law in nature because they believed in a lawgiver.” John Lennox – Not the God of the Gaps, But the Whole Show – 2012 http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-god-particle-not-the-god-of-the-gaps-but-the-whole-show-80307/
Perhaps the most famous confusion of a mere mathematical description of a law and the causal agency required to be behind the law is Stephen Hawking’s following statement:
“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.The universe didn’t need a God to begin; it was quite capable of launching its existence on its own,” Stephen Hawking - The Grand Design
Here is an excerpt of an article, (that is well worth reading in full), in which Dr. Gordon exposes Stephen Hawking’s ignorance for thinking that mathematical description and agent causality are the same thing.
BRUCE GORDON: Hawking’s irrational arguments – October 2010 Excerpt: ,,,The physical universe is causally incomplete and therefore neither self-originating nor self-sustaining. The world of space, time, matter and energy is dependent on a reality that transcends space, time, matter and energy. This transcendent reality cannot merely be a Platonic realm of mathematical descriptions, for such things are causally inert abstract entities that do not affect the material world,,, Rather, the transcendent reality on which our universe depends must be something that can exhibit agency – a mind that can choose among the infinite variety of mathematical descriptions and bring into existence a reality that corresponds to a consistent subset of them. This is what “breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe.” Anything else invokes random miracles as an explanatory principle and spells the end of scientific rationality.,,, Universes do not “spontaneously create” on the basis of abstract mathematical descriptions, nor does the fantasy of a limitless multiverse trump the explanatory power of transcendent intelligent design. What Mr. Hawking’s contrary assertions show is that mathematical savants can sometimes be metaphysical simpletons. Caveat emptor. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/1/hawking-irrational-arguments/
Moreover, Godel’s incompleteness theorem has now proven that there will never be a ‘complete’ mathematical description of everything that is sufficient within itself so as to be a ‘theory of everything’.
Kurt Gödel – Incompleteness Theorem – video https://vimeo.com/92387853 THE GOD OF THE MATHEMATICIANS – DAVID P. GOLDMAN – August 2010 Excerpt: we cannot construct an ontology that makes God dispensable. Secularists can dismiss this as a mere exercise within predefined rules of the game of mathematical logic, but that is sour grapes, for it was the secular side that hoped to substitute logic for God in the first place. Gödel’s critique of the continuum hypothesis has the same implication as his incompleteness theorems: Mathematics never will create the sort of closed system that sorts reality into neat boxes. http://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/07/the-god-of-the-mathematicians Godel and Physics – John D. Barrow Excerpt (page 5-6): “Clearly then no scientific cosmology, which of necessity must be highly mathematical, can have its proof of consistency within itself as far as mathematics go. In absence of such consistency, all mathematical models, all theories of elementary particles, including the theory of quarks and gluons…fall inherently short of being that theory which shows in virtue of its a priori truth that the world can only be what it is and nothing else. This is true even if the theory happened to account for perfect accuracy for all phenomena of the physical world known at a particular time.” Stanley Jaki – Cosmos and Creator – 1980, pg. 49
Moreover, if we rightly allow agent causality back into math, as was originally presupposed by the Christian founders of modern science, then a resolution between Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity readily pops out for us:
The Center Of The Universe Is Life (Jesus Christ) – General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Entropy and The Shroud Of Turin – video http://vimeo.com/34084462 The God of the Mathematicians – Goldman Excerpt: As Gödel told Hao Wang, “Einstein’s religion [was] more abstract, like Spinoza and Indian philosophy. Spinoza’s god is less than a person; mine is more than a person; because God can play the role of a person.” Kurt Gödel – http://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/07/the-god-of-the-mathematicians
Verse and Music:
Colossians 1:15-20 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Evanescence – The Other Side (Music-Lyric Video) http://www.vevo.com/watch/evanescence/the-other-side-lyric-video/USWV41200024?source=instantsearch
bornagain77
March 12, 2015
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MT, You obviously have missed out on the vast body of thought on implications of evolutionary materialism and how it shapes the thought life and memes of jumped-up apes from the East African savannahs. (And dare I mention a little remark by Darwin on how NS shaped even the conflict between the Europeans and the Ottoman Turks?) BTW, you actually were citing Nancy Pearcey as quoted by BA77; I am headlining a comment. Let me remind you, as I drew to CHartsil's attention, from William Provine at the well known U Tenn Darwin Day 1998 event, in his keynote:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . .
In fact, if we are not responsibly free, we have no freedom to reason correctly including on science and origins. That comes out forcibly if we ponder a moment what say Crick implies in his 1994 The Astonishing Hypothesis:
. . . that "You", your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behaviour of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules. As Lewis Carroll's Alice might have phrased: "You're nothing but a pack of neurons." This hypothesis is so alien to the ideas of most people today that it can truly be called astonishing.
As I long since noted, Philip Johnson has replied that Sir Francis should have therefore been willing to preface his works thusly: "I, Francis Crick, my opinions and my science, and even the thoughts expressed in this book, consist of nothing more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules." Johnson then acidly commented: “[[t]he plausibility of materialistic determinism requires that an implicit exception be made for the theorist.” [[Reason in the Balance, 1995.] And, there is ever so much more. Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . . KF Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . . KFkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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Piotr, If only you would live up to the apostle, who is your namesake! No, Ann Gauger is a decent and solid scientific worker who deserves respect rather than snide rhetorical talking points. Instead, you full well know of the lab coat clad a priori evolutionary materialist scientism inadvertently exposed for what it is, by Richard Lewontin in the now notorious Jan 1997 NYRB review of Carl Sagan's all too revealingly titled book, The Demon-Haunted World:
. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads we must first get an incorrect view out . . . the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations [--> notice the thinly veiled contempt and refusal to address a vast body of experience and insight on its own merits], and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth [[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident [[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . ] that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality, and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [[--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [“Billions and Billions of Demons,” NYRB, January 9, 1997. If you or others imagine this is "quote-mined," kindly cf the fuller annotared cite here.]
Philip Johnson's reply Nov that year, in First Things, is a classic:
For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [[Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them "materialists employing science." And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) "give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." . . . . The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [[Emphasis added.] [[The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]
Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . . KFkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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CHartsil, Perhaps, there is some ancient wisdom from a source you patently despise that can clear up some misconceptions. Let's clip:
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.” [ESV]
And again, in the most famous sermon of all times:
Matt 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
Then, again from an apostle:
Eph 4: 17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,[f] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.
. . . and from another, Peter as he faced judicial murder on the false accusation by the demonically mad and utterly twisted Nero trying to divert suspicion regarding the July 18, 64 AD fire in Rome:
2 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son,[i] with whom I am well pleased,” 18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . . KFkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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...en-darkenment disguising itself as enlightenment dressed up in the lab coat.
Like this?Piotr
March 12, 2015
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KF,
natural selection has produced all sorts of false concepts in the human mind
Natural selection has got nothing to do with selection of concepts and beliefs.
Many evolutionary materialists maintain that free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, even our sense of self is an illusion
All that the scientists are saying is, free will and consciousness are not an external entity like creationists claim.Me_Think
March 12, 2015
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CHartsil, read and weep from Prof William Provine, in the well known U Tenn 1998 Darwin Day keynote you seem to be clueless about in haste to attack the God you do not understand but so patently viscerally fear and resent:
Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . . The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will . . .
Blind chance and mechanical necessity reduce mind, purpose, determination, vision, thoughtful rational contemplation and more to molecular noise or worse. Ending in deep self referential incoherence and en-darkenment disguising itself as enlightenment dressed up in the lab coat. The poem and vids above speak straight to you. I suggest you take time to ponder . . . and in so doing learn to wonder about what gifts you have of heart and mind that per your impoverished self refuting worldview you cannot have. Then, have the courage to rise from the floor and leave them behind in the dust. Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . . KFkairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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Free will is only an illusion if an omniscient being exists.CHartsil
March 12, 2015
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Tyger, tyger, burning bright . . .kairosfocus
March 12, 2015
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