Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Can a Lowly Lawyer Make a Useful Contribution?  Maybe.

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Dr. Moran has asked me to respond to some technical questions over at Sandwalk.  When I started writing this response I intended to put it in his combox.  Then I realized there is a lot in it that is relevant to our work at UD.  So I will put it here and link to it there.

Dr. Moran, before I answer your technical questions, allow me to make one thing perfectly clear.  I am not a scientist, much less a biologist.  I am an attorney, and being an attorney has some pluses and some minuses insofar as participating in the evolution debate goes.  Like many people in the last 25 years, I was inspired to become involved in this debate by Phillip E. Johnson’s “Darwin on Trial.”  Johnson is also an attorney, and he said this about what an attorney can bring to bear:

I approach the creation-evolution dispute not as a scientist but as a professor of law, which means among other things that I know something about the ways that words are used in arguments. . . . I am not a scientist but an academic lawyer by profession, with a specialty in analyzing the logic of arguments and identifying the assumptions that lie behind those arguments.  This background is more appropriate than one might think, because what people believe about evolution and Darwinism depends very heavily on the kind of logic they employ and the kind of assumptions they make.

Johnson is saying that attorneys are trained to detect baloney.  And that training is very helpful in the evolution debate, because that debate is chock-full of faulty logic (especially circular reasoning), abuse of language (especially equivocations), assumptions masquerading as facts, unexamined premises, etc. etc.

Consider, to take one example of many, cladistics.  It does not take a genius to know that cladistic techniques do not establish common descent; rather they assume it.  But I bet if one asked, 9 out of 10 materialist evolutionists, even the trained scientists among them, would tell you that cladistics is powerful evidence for common descent.  As Johnson argues, a lawyer’s training may help him understand when faulty arguments are being made, sometimes even better than those with a far superior grasp of the technical aspects of the field.  This is not to say that common descent is necessarily false; only cladistics does not establish the matter one way or the other.

In summary, I am trained to evaluate arguments by stripping them down to examine the meaning of the terms used, exposing the underlying assumptions, and following the logic (or, as is often the case, exposing the lack of logic).  And I think I do a pretty fair job of that, both in my legal practice and here at UD.

Now to the minuses.  I do not claim personally to be able to evaluate technical scientific questions.  Like the vast majority of people, I rely on the secondary literature, which, by and large, is accessible to a layman such as myself.  When it comes to independent analysis of technical scientific questions, I have nothing useful to say.

Back to our cladistics example.  I have a very general understanding of how clads are made and what they mean.  But I do not claim to be an expert in the technical issues that arise in the field.  Of course, that is not an obstacle to spotting a faulty argument about cladistics, as I explained above.

Digging deeper – to the fundamental core of the matter – my baloney detector allows me to spot metaphysical assumptions masquerading as scientific “facts.”  This is especially useful in the evolution debate, because – to use KF’s winsome turn of phrase – evolutionists love to cloak their metaphysical commitments in the holy lab coat.

Consider the following claim:  Evolution is a fact.

Yes it is, and it most certainly is not, depending on what one means by the word “evolution.”  If all you mean is that living things were different in the past than they are now, then sure.  Even YEC’s believe that.  But if you mean that modern materialist evolutionary theory has been proven to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold consent, then the statement is absolutely not a fact.  Even materialist evolutionists dispute such vital issues as the relative importance of natural selection.  This is quite aside from the fact that many people (especially ID proponents) do not believe the theory is even plausible, far less unassailable.

Yet I can’t tell you how many times I have caught materialists in this very equivocation.  I do not believe that materialists are always being intentionally misleading when they say this.  Some are but not all.  Those in the latter group have a commitment to materialist metaphysics that is so strong that they often cannot tell where their metaphysics ends and their empirical observations begin.  A person who allows his materialist metaphysical commitments to blind him, may truly believe that the mere fact that living things are different now than they were in the past is, on its face, evidence for materialist evolutionary theory.  Why?  Because if materialism is true, then materialist evolutionary theory must also be true as a matter of simple logic even before we get to the evidence.

And as a matter of strict logic, they are correct.  The conclusion follows from the premises.  The argument is valid.  But what materialist fundamentalists never stop to ask is whether the argument is also sound.  Is that crucial premise “metaphysical materialism is true” a false statement?  There are good reasons to believe that it is, and sometimes it takes someone with a good baloney detector – someone like a lawyer – to clue them in on this.  As astounding as it seems, it is very often the case that materialist evolutionists not only fail to acknowledge an unstated assumption that is absolutely critical to their argument; but also they fail to even know that they’ve made that assumption in the first place and that that assumption might possibly be false.  I can help them understand those things.

Comments
Gordon, Gradual evolution predicts a smooth blending of traits and therefore does not predict a nested hierarchy.
Joe: Branching descent will not produce a nested hierarchy. Darwin, Mayr, Denton, Knox and Wagner have all explained why this is true. (...) A family tree is an example of branching descent and you cannot create a nested hierarchy of traits from a family tree. OTOH the US Army has nothing to do with branching descent and it is constructed as a nested hierarchy.
Box
November 15, 2015
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It is easy to build a tree on the similarities. Try doing it on the differences. Personally I have no beef with CD but I'm not convinced yet because there are other explanations that fit the data too.Andre
November 15, 2015
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Coming at this from the other side...
Consider the following claim: Evolution is a fact. Yes it is, and it most certainly is not, depending on what one means by the word “evolution.” If all you mean is that living things were different in the past than they are now, then sure. Even YEC’s believe that. But if you mean that modern materialist evolutionary theory has been proven to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold consent, then the statement is absolutely not a fact. [...]
I'd fully agree with that so far; however:
Yet I can’t tell you how many times I have caught materialists in this very equivocation. I do not believe that materialists are always being intentionally misleading when they say this. Some are but not all.
While I've also seen this equivication, I think it may be less common than you think. I may be a little sensitive about this, because on another thread kairosfocus just (falsely) accused me of a very similar mistake. I said:
There are some parts of evolutionary theory that are so well supported that they can be considered facts. Widespread (if not necessarily universal) common ancestry. Mutation, selection, and drift all happen; we see ’em in the lab, we see ’em in the wild, and we see their effects in genomes. Other things are not well established. The one you’re particularly concerned with, materialism, is neither well-established nor part of evolutionary theory. I’m not going to say anything at all like “fact, Fact, FACT” about it, because I don’t consider it one. I think it (or some variant, like physicalism) is the best available guess at the nature of reality, but I consider that a (semi-educated) guess, not fact.
then KF quoted the first paragraph (highlighting the bits about common ancestry and mutation, selection, and drift) and replied:
Do you not see the error of conflation and halo of factual character by close rhetorical association you just fell into? What we see in the lab is small changes in populations, often by loss of prior function or in Lenski’s case apparent recovery of ability to use an existing mechanism under aerobic conditions. What we have definitely not actually seen is observation of common ancestry of body plans by blind watchmaker chance and/or necessity via chance non foresighted variations of the 47 or whatever kinds, followed by differential reproductive success and descent with modification leading to the rise of divergent major body plans from a common unicellular ancestor. We have not even seen the rise of humans diverse from chimps or whatever from a common population what 6 – 10 MYA.
Note that I said mutation, selection, and drift all clearly happen; I didn't say they were the whole story. In fact, they clearly aren't: at the very least, endosymbiosis is also involved. I didn't claim that we know the whole story (we don't). I didn't claim that the whole story (when/if we figure it out) will involve only natural processes; I think it will, but I'll freely admit that I don't have a solid case for it. (I just haven't been impressed by the case against it.) But that still has important implications for ID: it means the only plausible ID hypotheses are those involve intelligent input in addition to (rather than instead of) mutation, selection, drift, etc. Genetic front-loading, guided mutation, guided selection, front-loaded fitness function ("active information"), etc are the ID hypotheses that fit with this evidence. Independent creation of different "kinds", on the other hand, is pretty much out. I also have to turn the accusation around, since you do something like the reverse (in the section I omitted above):
But if you mean that modern materialist evolutionary theory has been proven to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold consent, then the statement is absolutely not a fact. Even materialist evolutionists dispute such vital issues as the relative importance of natural selection.
Just as it's invald to use certainty about some aspects of evolution to imply certainty about all aspects, it's also invalid to use uncertainty about some aspects of evolution to imply uncertainty about all aspects. There's some controversy(*) about whether Napoleon died of arsenic poisioning, but that doesn't imply any uncertainty at all about whether he died. Similarly, there's some controversy about exactly how all the various mechanisms of evolution mesh together, but that doesn't imply any uncertainty about whether they happen. (* Actually, the Napoleon controvery seems to have settled out in the last decade; but the question of whether he was dead was settled way before that.) I should also probably address your point about cladistics. I'll start by pointing out that it's not just the existence of cladistics that's signicant, it's the success of cladistics at grouping organisms with similar characteristics together. Your training as a lawyer may actually be a problem here, because you're thinking like lawyer, not like a scientist. (A qualification: I'm not a scientist either. But my father was a physicist, as were an uncle and aunt, grandfather, great-uncle, several friends... I also studied a fair bit of science [esp physics] in college. So I'm fairly familiar with how scientists -- especially physicists -- reason.) Science involves a form of inference called abduction, or inference to the best explanation. This doesn't necessarily mean the explanation you like best, it means the one that does the best job of predicting (and in this case that includes retrodicting) the evidence. Essentially, it means the explanation that does the best job of explaining why the evidence is the way that it is. Take planetary orbits: Kepler worked out that the were eliptical, with the sun at one focus of the ellipse. Then Newton came along and proposed a theory of universal gravitation that said they had to be elliptical. It also explains why, for example, heavy objects have to fall at the same rate as lighter object. That's why elliptical orbits and equal fall rates are considered evidence for the theory of gravity. (It's also an oversimplification, but I'll get to that...) The situation with cladistics is similar. Linnaeus worked out that living organisms fell naturally into a nested hierarchy of similarity. Common ancestry explains why they have to fall into such a hierarchy (as well as why extinct organisms violate these rules in certain ways). But wait, I hear you cry, organisms also violate the strict nested hierarchy! Doesn't that mean that common ancestry is actually refuted? Well, no, no more than the fact that planetoids with sort of kidney-bean-shaped orbits exist, or that feathers fall slower than bowling balls, refute gravity. The strict predictions I mentioned (eliptical orbits, objects falling at the same rate, strict nested hierarchy) all follow only when there are no other factors interfering to complicate things. In the case of orbits, you may need to take the effect of other planets (and maybe other forces) into account. In the case of falling objects, you might need to include wind resistence, buoyancy, electromagnetic forces, and anything and everything else that happens to be acting on the falling object. In the case of the nested hierarchy, you need to take into account not just common ancestry, but also endosymbiosis, horizontal genetic transfer, convergence, and anything and everything else that happens to have influenced the pattern of similarity of organisms. This is one of the things that make science difficult. And interesting. But it doesn't make things hopeless; in all these cases you can pick out the most common pattern (ellipses, equal fall rate, nested hierarchy) and explain that, then look for anomalies and find explanations for them (wind resistence, horizontal transfer, etc), then look for still-unexplained anomalies and find explanations for them... making more and more complete pictures of all the contributing factors as you make better and better matches to the data. Realistically, any good explanation of why things fall at the rate they do is going to have something like gravity as the dominant factor. Likewise, any good explanation of the pattern of similarity among organisms is going to have to have something like common ancestry as the dominant factor. The nested hierarchy of similarity is something that needs to be explained, and any theory that hopes to replace common ancestry will need to explain it at least as well, and will also have to allow additional factors to explain the anomalies at least as well as endosymbiosis, HGT, etc do for common ancestry. I haven't seen anything that comes even slightly close. (If anyone is thinking of disputing that the nested hierarchy is real, I have a challenge: try arranging different cars into a nested hierarchy. If you organize them by, say, manufacturer and model, you'll find sedans, coupes, hatchbacks, and wagons splattered all over with no correspondence to the tree. Same with auto vs manual transmissions, and front/rear/4-wheel drive, and various engine layouts, and Diesel vs gas, and with/without satellite radio, and... And any other tree you pick will be at last bad. Organisms mostly fit in a nested hierarchy, cars almost completely don't.)Gordon Davisson
November 14, 2015
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Good points here. Cladistics is case in point of assumed evolutionary relationships and not demonstrating relationships are from evolution. YES a top lawyer is and should be better able to see the merits of arguments regardless of expertise. Indeed a top biologist should be able to evakluate law stuff if being intellectually careful about how data is used. IN short anyone who has trained themselves to think carefully about contentions in anything should be credible to take on any contention. So knowledgable (anyone but here lawyers) easily have the intellectual right to contend with evolutionist well degree-ed as long as the conversations demonstrate this. Surely on uD this is demonstrated excellently and fot a long time. From authors and posters on all sides if not all who post. Not all!! No voting either. Especially the historic prejudice against canadians or I assume that to explain lack of support for me. Yeah thats it.Robert Byers
November 14, 2015
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