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Claimed link between creationism and “conspiracism”

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All Seeing Eye, Dollar, Conspiracy Theory, Illuminati At Current Biology:

Teleological thinking — the attribution of purpose and a final cause to natural events and entities — has long been identified as a cognitive hindrance to the acceptance of evolution, yet its association to beliefs other than creationism has not been investigated. Here, we show that conspiracism — the proneness to explain socio-historical events in terms of secret and malevolent conspiracies — is also associated to a teleological bias. Across three correlational studies (N > 2000), we found robust evidence of a teleological link between conspiracism and creationism, which was partly independent from religion, politics, age, education, agency detection, analytical thinking and perception of randomness. As a resilient ‘default’ component of early cognition, teleological thinking is thus associated with creationist as well as conspiracist beliefs, which both entail the distant and hidden involvement of a purposeful and final cause to explain complex worldly events. (open access) Pascal Wagner-Egger, Sylvain Delouvée, Nicolas Gauvrit, Sebastian Dieguez, “Creationism and conspiracism share a common teleological bias” at Current Biology , Volume 28, Issue 16, Pr867-r868, August 20, 2018 DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2018.06.072

Wow. These authors must feel quite threatened. They are really reaching. Their two topics cannot even be equated as concepts: Creationism is a position on a specific subject (origin of life and the universe); conspiracism, which is more commonly called “conspiracy thinking,” is a tendency of thought (it’s all a Big Plot, you see…) which may be applied to any position on any subject.

And, of course, the perception of a plan or a pattern behind events (“teleological thinking”) is not, in isolation, evidence of creationism or conspiracy thinking, though it would be a necessary component of both. It would also be a necessary component of a marketing strategy or a blueprint.

Maybe the authors assume, naively, that their own worldview is simply a neutral, non-biased, non-limited view of the facts. But everyone thinks that about their own worldview. People sheltered by an enforced consensus can afford to assume that their assumption is simply true, hence this kind of stuff gets written and published on a regular basis.

But why do they feel so threatened?

See also: At New York Times: Darwin skeptic Carl Woese “effectively founded a new branch of science” In fairness, many of us DID sense that the people splintering lecterns in favor of Darwin’s Tree of Life were more certain than the facts would turn out to warrant. Every so often, a new poll would announce, to general hand-wringing, that much of the public doesn’t “believe in” evolution. Most of us didn’t fight with anybody about it, we just waited… A world where horizontal gene transfer is a “thing,” (and epigenetics and convergent evolution as well) actually makes a lot more sense from experience than the “selfish gene” world.

and

Sociologist: How ID foxes can beat Darwinian lions

Comments
Yes, teleological explanations in science, as I said.jdk
August 24, 2018
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Oh my. Teleological explanations pertain to purpose, Jack. They even say it in the first sentence of their article.ET
August 24, 2018
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Hi JAD. I don't think there has been anything in this thread about purposelessness. The OP has been about teleological explanations in science, which is a more limited matter than teleological explanations in general.jdk
August 24, 2018
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JAD, I doubt that most atheists here feel their own lives are purposeless*, or are trying to convince theists that their lives have no purpose. I think atheists are here because they like to debate/discuss some of the great issues. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my worldview. *As an example of one way I find purpose, my wife asked me to do a few projects around the house this summer. If I do them, she will be happy, which makes me happy. These projects will increase the quality of both our lives; that's part of my purpose at the moment.daveS
August 24, 2018
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I’m just curious as to how some of our regular interlocutors can find purpose in purposelessness. I have said this here before that if I was an atheist, I would leave other people alone. What is the point of trying to convince others that ultimately there is no purpose to their lives?john_a_designer
August 24, 2018
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john a designer:
What is the purpose of convincing anyone else that ultimately there is no purpose to anything, especially when you cannot give a logically valid argument as to why such a view is true?
Because it makes them feel good to poke at other people they disagree with. Muddying the waters does wonders :cool:ET
August 24, 2018
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What is the purpose of convincing anyone else that ultimately there is no purpose to anything, especially when you cannot give a logically valid argument as to why such a view is true? Is the universe, life and human existence purposeless simply because that is what you believe? Who are you to tell everyone else what to think and believe?john_a_designer
August 24, 2018
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F/N: Consider key parallel no. 1: Pascal Wagner-Egger, Sylvain Delouvée, Nicolas Gauvrit, Sebastian Dieguez, annotated, Aug 2018: >> teleological thinking has long been banned from scientific reasoning . . . [–> banned by whom, on what grounds, when, with what sound inductive warrant, given say discovery of alphanumeric code, thus language that funcyions algorithmically in the heart of the living cell? Coded language and programs are inherently teleological]>> vs. Lewontin, annotated, 1997: >>It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us [= the evo-mat establishment] to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [–> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [–> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [–> irreconcilable hostility to ethical theism, already caricatured as believing delusionally in imaginary demons].>> Do we see the ideological imposition and its consequences for science and for truth-seeking? KFkairosfocus
August 24, 2018
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PPS: read and weep time:
Main Text Although teleological thinking has long been banned from scientific reasoning, [–> banned by whom, on what grounds, when, with what sound inductive warrant, given say discovery of alphanumeric code, thus language that funcyions algorithmically in the heart of the living cell? Coded language and programs are inherently teleological] it persists in childhood cognition, [–> loaded subtext, implying childishness on the part of the despised, dismissed other] as well as in adult intuitions and beliefs [1 , 2]. [–> “persists” continues in force, so adults who believe that “life on Earth was purposefully created by a supernatural agent” are automatically childish and by definitional fiat antiscience] Noting similarities between creationism (the belief that life on Earth was purposefully created by a supernatural agent) and conspiracism, [–> projection, and guilt by invidious association] we sought to investigate whether teleological thinking [–> dismissed as antiscience by definition at the outset and further silently dismissed as not being possibly true, material evidence having been suppressed] could underlie and associate [–> oh, we are diagnoising your delusions, borderline lunacy] both types of beliefs.
kairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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JDK (attn, DS), kindly take a look at the telling parallels in thought. If that does not give you sobering pause, it should. KF PS: But then, there is a silly little mental game we can consider.
Step one, define that a certain crooked yardstick, S, is the standard of straight, accurate and upright. Once that is done, no stick I that is genuinely so can ever conform to S: I != S. So on the S-standard I will always be rejected. This seems silly, until it is in place on an ideologically tainted matter, ask, how can we move from S to the incommensurable I. Only, by interposing a plumbline P that you are willing to accept is naturally upright and straight. But, if you are committed to S, you may well refuse to acknowledge P. So, if we can be led to set up a false standard S, it can be self-sustaining in the teeth of all corrections, until something catastrophic forces a change. Resemblance to too much of political (and so also military and ideological) history is NOT coincidental.
It even reflects a lot of exchanges in and around this blog on ID and related themes. Sadly, including the case that infers that those who reject the establishment of atheism in a lab coat as the somehow standard definition of Science, its methods and conclusions are deluded and childish, to be taken in charge by their betters, the bright ones. We need to pause and see what we are doing, the clip from 6 above on comes from the peer reviewed literature, indeed it is literally where the argument that sets up a seemingly impressive study begins.kairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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jdk, "I didn't think he was going to do Moon River, then BAM, second encore!"daveS
August 23, 2018
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Great, Jack is back with its usual nothingness. :razz:ET
August 23, 2018
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Glad we got Lewontin in here: the thread wouldn't have been complete without it! :-)jdk
August 23, 2018
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kairosfocus- Bob was just a flea I needed to scratch. I'm better now. :cool:ET
August 23, 2018
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F/N: Am I the only one to see many parallels to the Lewontin cat out of the bag statement from 1997?
. . . to put a correct [--> Just who here presume to cornering the market on truth and so demand authority to impose?] view of the universe into people's heads
[==> as in, "we" the radically secularist elites have cornered the market on truth, warrant and knowledge, making "our" "consensus" the yardstick of truth . . . where of course "view" is patently short for WORLDVIEW . . . and linked cultural agenda . . . ]
we must first get an incorrect view out [--> as in, if you disagree with "us" of the secularist elite you are wrong, irrational and so dangerous you must be stopped, even at the price of manipulative indoctrination of hoi polloi] . . . the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world [--> "explanations of the world" is yet another synonym for WORLDVIEWS; the despised "demon[ic]" "supernatural" being of course an index of animus towards ethical theism and particularly the Judaeo-Christian faith tradition], the demons that exist only in their imaginations,
[ --> as in, to think in terms of ethical theism is to be delusional, justifying "our" elitist and establishment-controlling interventions of power to "fix" the widespread mental disease]
and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth
[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]
. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists [--> "we" are the dominant elites], it is self-evident
[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . . and in fact it is evolutionary materialism that is readily shown to be self-refuting]
that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality [--> = all of reality to the evolutionary materialist], and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us [= the evo-mat establishment] to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [--> irreconcilable hostility to ethical theism, already caricatured as believing delusionally in imaginary demons]. [Lewontin, Billions and billions of Demons, NYRB Jan 1997,cf. here. And, if you imagine this is "quote-mined" I invite you to read the fuller annotated citation here.]
KFkairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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ET, let him go. We have enough to draw a conclusion. KFkairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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No, Bob, you have run your irrational course and clearly you are exhausted. We are still picking apart the asinine claims made the authorsET
August 23, 2018
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Well, this thread seems to have run its course.Bob O'H
August 23, 2018
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of supplemental note to 76:
The Evolutionary Argument Against Reality - April 2016 The cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman uses evolutionary game theory to show that our perceptions of an independent reality must be illusions. Excerpt: “The classic argument is that those of our ancestors who saw more accurately had a competitive advantage over those who saw less accurately and thus were more likely to pass on their genes that coded for those more accurate perceptions, so after thousands of generations we can be quite confident that we’re the offspring of those who saw accurately, and so we see accurately. That sounds very plausible. But I think it is utterly false. It misunderstands the fundamental fact about evolution, which is that it’s about fitness functions — mathematical functions that describe how well a given strategy achieves the goals of survival and reproduction. The mathematical physicist Chetan Prakash proved a theorem that I devised that says: According to evolution by natural selection, an organism that sees reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees none of reality but is just tuned to fitness. Never.” https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160421-the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality/ The Case Against Reality - May 13, 2016 Excerpt: Hoffman seems to come to a conclusion similar to the one Alvin Plantinga argues in ch. 10 of Where the Conflict Really Lies: we should not expect — in the absence of further argument — that creatures formed by a naturalistic evolutionary process would have veridical perceptions.,,, First, even if Hoffman’s argument were restricted to visual perception, and not to our cognitive faculties more generally (e.g., memory, introspection, a priori rational insight, testimonial belief, inferential reasoning, etc.), the conclusion that our visual perceptions would be wholly unreliable given natural selection would be sufficient for Plantinga’s conclusion of self-defeat. After all, reliance upon the veridicality of our visual perceptions was and always will be crucial for any scientific argument for the truth of evolution. So if these perceptions cannot be trusted, we have little reason to think evolutionary theory is true. Second, it’s not clear that Hoffman’s application of evolutionary game theory is only specially applicable to visual perception, rather than being relevant for our cognitive faculties generally. If “we find that veridical perceptions can be driven to extinction by non-veridical strategies that are tuned to utility rather than objective reality” (2010, p. 504, my emphasis), then why wouldn’t veridical cognitive faculties (more generally) be driven to extinction by non-veridical strategies that are tuned to utility rather than objective reality? After all, evolutionary theory purports to be the true account of the formation of all of our cognitive faculties, not just our faculty of visual perception. If evolutionary game theory proves that “true perception generally goes extinct” when “animals that perceive the truth compete with others that sacrifice truth for speed and energy-efficiency” (2008), why wouldn’t there be a similar sacrifice with respect to other cognitive faculties? In fact, Hoffman regards the following theorem as now proven: “According to evolution by natural selection, an organism that sees reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees none of reality but is just tuned to fitness” (Atlantic interview). But then wouldn’t it also be the case that an organism that cognizes reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that cognizes none of reality but is just tuned to fitness? On the evolutionary story, every cognitive faculty we have was produced by a process that was tuned to fitness (rather than tuned to some other value, such as truth). http://www.gregwelty.com/2016/05/the-case-against-reality/ Scientific Peer Review is in Trouble: From Medical Science to Darwinism - Mike Keas - October 10, 2012 Excerpt: Survival is all that matters on evolutionary naturalism. Our evolving brains are more likely to give us useful fictions that promote survival rather than the truth about reality. Thus evolutionary naturalism undermines all rationality (including confidence in science itself). Renown philosopher Alvin Plantinga has argued against naturalism in this way (summary of that argument is linked on the site:). Or, if your short on time and patience to grasp Plantinga's nuanced argument, see if you can digest this thought from evolutionary cognitive psychologist Steve Pinker, who baldly states: "Our brains are shaped for fitness, not for truth; sometimes the truth is adaptive, sometimes it is not." Steven Pinker, evolutionary cognitive psychologist, How the Mind Works (W.W. Norton, 1997), p. 305. http://blogs.christianpost.com/science-and-faith/scientific-peer-review-is-in-trouble-from-medical-science-to-darwinism-12421/ Neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield on Free Will - Michael Egnor - July 26, 2018 Excerpt: in fact, there is strong support for the reality of free will from neuroscience, in addition to decisive philosophical and logical arguments for free will. For a philosophical example, consider that affirmation or denial of free will is a proposition, which is a statement that may or may not be true. But matter has no truth value — propositions aren’t material things. Matter just is; it is neither true nor false. Thus, when a materialist claims that material causes preclude the possibility of free will, he is also claiming that his own opinion cannot be true (or false). Denial of free will on the basis of materialistic determinism is self-refuting.,,, https://evolutionnews.org/2018/07/neurosurgeon-wilder-penfield-on-free-will/
bornagain77
August 23, 2018
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Only in the contorted reasoning of a mind warped by Darwinian/Atheistic thinking is Bob's claim and response reasonable. His reasoning is garbage. But such as it typically is in trying to reason with those whose worldview undermines reason altogether.
Paul Herrick, "C.S. Lewis's Argument from Reason: A Defense," Gonzaga Socratic Club - video (14:00 miinute mark) https://youtu.be/tHkN2nD8dJA?t=835
bornagain77
August 23, 2018
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Evolutionism must be the new "opiate for the masses"ET
August 23, 2018
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a cognitive hindrance to the acceptance of evolution
So why is acceptance of 'evolution' so important? No one even knows what it is, in a scientific sense, that's why there are many definitions of it. This is not about science, never was, prolly never will be. Andrewasauber
August 23, 2018
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Bob O'H:
The writers of this paper are not “average layman”, and did not make the link to mental illness.
No, an average layman would not have made as many mistakes as the authors did. And the authors appear to be linked to a mental illness.ET
August 23, 2018
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Earth to Bob O'H- Clearly you are as ignorant as the authors. Theistic evolutionists accept teleological explanations and they are not creationists. Everyone who believes in God accepts teleological thinking. They also see a purpose to our being, along with a final cause.ET
August 23, 2018
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The paper is full of crap and it starts out with nonsense:
Teleological thinking — the attribution of purpose and a final cause to natural events and entities — has long been identified as a cognitive hindrance to the acceptance of evolution,...
That depends on how you define "evolution" because even YECs accept that allele frequencies change over time- ie evolution. The hinderance to accepting blind watchmaker evolution is the total lack of science and evidence to support the position. So clearly the authors have serious mental issues.
Although teleological thinking has long been banned from scientific reasoning,
Except for all of the scientific venues that count on it, of course. Archaeology depends on teleological thinking, as does forensic science. Again, clearly the authors have mental issues.
First, we sought to establish whether teleological thinking, classically associated with creationism,
That is an outright lie. Teleological thinking is classically associated with the ancient Greeks. Do the authors know anything? Apparently not.ET
August 23, 2018
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ba77 -
1. not everyone who believes in God is a creationist. They believe in no god worth having then!
it sounds like you agree with me - you might not like the God these people believe in, but you've not arguing that they don't believe in the Christian God.
2. no, they don’t look at the correlation between creationism and belief in conspiracies And yet from the OP itself: “we found robust evidence of a teleological link between conspiracism and creationism,”
OK, I should have been more careful, because this is a subtle point and what I wrote was too brief, so my apologies. What the researchers did was to show that there are factors that explain creationist belief and belief in conspiracies. They find that there are some factors in common, although they are not the strongest for both. What they do not do is look to see if people who are more likely to be creationists are more likely to be conspiracy theorists: it is possible, for example, that what the authors call animism makes one more likely to be either a creationist or a conspiracy theorist, but then one becomes one or the other, depending on finalism or rejection of science. Thus there may not be a correlation, because it wasn't tested.
3. they make no link to mental illness So, tin foil hat conspiracy thinking is not a ‘mental illness’ in your book? Despite the fact that some conspiracies may be true, for the average layman, the link to mental illness is implicit in the accusation of “conspiracism”
The writers of this paper are not "average layman", and did not make the link to mental illness.
4. they do not look at religious affiliation, so don’t make any link to atheism. The title once again: “Creationism and conspiracism share a common teleological bias”
Right. See my first point.
Save for the fact that Atheists deny teleology and Christians and/or Theists embrace teleology, you might have been in the ballpark of reason.
This is your claim, not theirs: once more, they do not look at religious affiliation, and particularly not atheism.Bob O'H
August 23, 2018
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PS: The clear subtext created by "persists" language, starting with children and then extending to the despised other adults is loaded. Further to this, conspiracism is deemed delusional thinking which is at minimum a borderline mental disorder. It seems you have not seriously read how the duly peer-reviewed article opens (this does wonders for the credibility of peer review . . . NOT):
Main Text Although teleological thinking has long been banned from scientific reasoning, [–> banned by whom, on what grounds, when, with what sound inductive warrant, given say discovery of alphanumeric code, thus language that functions algorithmically in the heart of the living cell? Coded language and programs are inherently teleological] it persists in childhood cognition, [–> loaded subtext, implying childishness on the part of the despised, dismissed other] as well as in adult intuitions and beliefs [1 , 2]. [–> “persists” continues in force, so adults who believe that “life on Earth was purposefully created by a supernatural agent” are automatically childish and by definitional fiat antiscience] Noting similarities between creationism (the belief that life on Earth was purposefully created by a supernatural agent) and conspiracism, [–> projection, and guilt by invidious association] we sought to investigate whether teleological thinking [–> dismissed as antiscience by definition at the outset and further silently dismissed as not being possibly true, material evidence having been suppressed] could underlie and associate [–> oh, we are diagnosing your delusions, borderline lunacy] both types of beliefs.
kairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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BO'H: The paper presents a doubly or triply loaded and manipulative definition of "Creationism." Namely, "belief that life on Earth was purposefully created by a supernatural agent." This first neatly sidesteps the focal point of the design inference, design as key causal factor may be inferred on empirically observed reliable signs, further distorting to suggest inference to a particular designer. Second, this suppresses the proper alternative, natural [blind chance and/or mechanical necessity] vs the ART-ificial. Third, it is far too broad-brush, patently intent on tainting with imposition of a religious dogma when in fact it is a reasonable philosophical inference to hold that the world and life in it are created by God, without reference to any particular religious tradition. In short, the whole premise of the study is deeply flawed. And again, you are missing in action on the sobering issue at work as was highlighted at 6 above. We are entitled to draw conclusions. KFkairosfocus
August 23, 2018
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Bob (and weave) at his usual dishonest tactics once again. 1. not everyone who believes in God is a creationist. They believe in no god worth having then!
2 Timothy 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
2. no, they don’t look at the correlation between creationism and belief in conspiracies And yet from the OP itself:
"we found robust evidence of a teleological link between conspiracism and creationism,"
3. they make no link to mental illness So, tin foil hat conspiracy thinking is not a 'mental illness' in your book? Despite the fact that some conspiracies may be true, for the average layman, the link to mental illness is implicit in the accusation of "conspiracism" 4. they do not look at religious affiliation, so don’t make any link to atheism. The title once again: "Creationism and conspiracism share a common teleological bias" Save for the fact that Atheists deny teleology and Christians and/or Theists embrace teleology, you might have been in the ballpark of reason. As it is, you are, once again, a shining example of the mental illness of 'denialism', that is rampant among atheists, that I highlighted in post 65.bornagain77
August 23, 2018
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Basically the “Creationism and conspiracism” paper in the OP is claiming that people who believe in God, i.e. “creationists”, are more prone to believe in conspiracies and are therefore more mentally ill, on average, than atheists.
No, this is wrong on several coutsn: 1. not everyone who believes in God is a creationist. 2. no, they don't look at the correlation between creationism and belief in conspiracies 3. they make no link to mental illness 4. they do not look at religious affiliation, so don't make any link to atheism.Bob O'H
August 23, 2018
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