Coffee! Politicians and the origin of life

7 Replies to “Coffee! Politicians and the origin of life”

1. 1
   bornagain77 says:

   February 5, 2019 at 6:37 am

   As was touched upon by Dr, Ann Gauger at the 8:20 minute mark of the video, getting a single functional protein is only the beginning of problems for any explanation for the Origin of Life that relies solely on chance as its creative agent. As Dr Gauger stated,

   “The higher level organization (of a cell) transcends the pieces. The spatial organization in the cell requires that molecules end up in the right place at the right time.”
   – Dr. Ann Gauger
   https://youtu.be/W1_KEVaCyaA?t=500

   And as Paul Davies touches upon in the following article, “Trying to make life by mixing chemicals in a test tube is like soldering switches and wires in an attempt to produce Windows 98. It won’t work because it addresses the problem at the wrong conceptual level.”

   How we could create life – The key to existence will be found not in primordial sludge, but in the nanotechnology of the living cell – Paul Davies – 2002
   Excerpt: the living cell is best thought of as a supercomputer – an information processing and replicating system of astonishing complexity. DNA is not a special life-giving molecule, but a genetic databank that transmits its information using a mathematical code. Most of the workings of the cell are best described, not in terms of material stuff – hardware – but as information, or software. Trying to make life by mixing chemicals in a test tube is like soldering switches and wires in an attempt to produce Windows 98. It won’t work because it addresses the problem at the wrong conceptual level.
   https://www.theguardian.com/education/2002/dec/11/highereducation.uk

   And as Paul Davies further touches upon in the following article, this ‘missing ingredient’ that is being overlooked in Origin of Life research is ‘nonlocal’ biological information.

   Assessing the “Algorithmic Origin of Life” (Paul Davies’ Recent Paper) – December 18, 2012
   Excerpt: It is the functionality of the expressed RNAs and proteins that is biologically important. Functionality, however, is not a local property of a molecule. It is defined only relationally, in a global context, which includes networks of relations among many sub-elements,,
   One is therefore left to conclude that the most important features of biological information (i.e. functionality) are decisively nonlocal. Biologically functional information is therefore not an additional quality, like electric charge, painted onto matter and passed on like a token. It is of course instantiated in biochemical structures, but one cannot point to any specific structure in isolation and say “Aha! Biological information is here!”,,,
   ,,,For example, mechanical stresses on a cell may affect gene expression. Mechanotransduction, electrical transduction and chemical signal transduction — all well-studied biological processes — constitute examples of what philosophers term “top-down causation”, where the system as a whole exerts causal control over a subsystem (e.g. a gene) via a set of time-dependent constraints.
   http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....67541.html

   Since Paul Davies mentioned “top-down causation” in the preceding article, here are a few articles by George Ellis that further explain the link between mind, information, and “top-down causation”.

   Physicist George Ellis on the importance of philosophy and free will – July 27, 2014
   Excerpt: And free will?:
   Horgan: Einstein, in the following quote, seemed to doubt free will: “If the moon, in the act of completing its eternal way around the Earth, were gifted with self-consciousness, it would feel thoroughly convinced that it was traveling its way of its own accord…. So would a Being, endowed with higher insight and more perfect intelligence, watching man and his doings, smile about man’s illusion that he was acting according to his own free will.” Do you believe in free will?
   Ellis: Yes. Einstein is perpetuating the belief that all causation is bottom up. This simply is not the case, as I can demonstrate with many examples from sociology, neuroscience, physiology, epigenetics, engineering, and physics. Furthermore if Einstein did not have free will in some meaningful sense, then he could not have been responsible for the theory of relativity – it would have been a product of lower level processes but not of an intelligent mind choosing between possible options.
   I find it very hard to believe this to be the case – indeed it does not seem to make any sense. Physicists should pay attention to Aristotle’s four forms of causation – if they have the free will to decide what they are doing. If they don’t, then why waste time talking to them? They are then not responsible for what they say.
   http://www.uncommondescent.com.....free-will/

   Recognising Top-Down Causation – George Ellis
   Excerpt: ,,,However there are many topics that one cannot understand by assuming this one-way flow of causation. The flourishing subject of social neuroscience makes clear how social influences act down on individual brain structure[2]; studies in physiology demonstrate that downward causation is necessary in understanding the heart, where this form of causation can be represented as the influences of initial and boundary conditions on the solutions of the differential equations used to represent the lower level processes[3]; epigenetic studies demonstrate that biological development is crucially shaped by the environment[4],,,
   Causal Efficacy of Non Physical entities:
   Both the program and the data are non-physical entities, indeed so is all software. A program is not a physical thing you can point to, but by Definition 2 it certainly exists. You can point to a CD or flashdrive where it is stored, but that is not the thing in itself: it is a medium in which it is stored.
   The program itself is an abstract entity, shaped by abstract logic. Is the software “nothing but” its realisation through a specific set of stored electronic states in the computer memory banks? No it is not because it is the precise pattern in those states that matters: a higher level relation that is not apparent at the scale of the electrons themselves. It’s a relational thing (and if you get the relations between the symbols wrong, so you have a syntax error, it will all come to a grinding halt). This abstract nature of software is realised in the concept of virtual machines, which occur at every level in the computer hierarchy except the bottom one [17]. But this tower of virtual machines causes physical effects in the real world, for example when a computer controls a robot in an assembly line to create physical artefacts.,,,
   Life and the brain: living systems are highly structured modular hierarchical systems, and there are many similarities to the digital computer case, even though they are not digital computers. The lower level interactions are constrained by network connections, thereby creating possibilities of truly complex behaviour. Top-down causation is prevalent at all levels in the brain: for example it is crucial to vision [24,25] as well as the relation of the individual brain to society [2]. The hardware (the brain) can do nothing without the excitations that animate it: indeed this is the difference between life and death. The mind is not a physical entity, but it certainly is causally effective: proof is the existence of the computer on which you are reading this text. It could not exist if it had not been designed and manufactured according to someone’s plans, thereby proving the causal efficacy of thoughts, which like computer programs and data are not physical entities.
   http://fqxi.org/data/essay-con.....s_2012.pdf

   In fact, Paul Davies went on to term information to be ‘the hard problem of life’ and also holds that ‘the hard problem will not ultimately be reducible to known physical principles.’

   The “Hard Problem” of Life – Sara Imari Walker and Paul C.W. Davies – June 23, 2016
   Excerpt: ,,,in the same way that Chalmers identified qualia as central to the hard problem of consciousness. To that end we propose that the hard problem of life is the problem of how ‘information’ can affect the world. In this essay we motivate both why the problem of information is central to explaining life and why it is hard, that is, why we suspect that a full resolution of the hard problem will not ultimately be reducible to known physical principles.,,,
   ,,, There are some indications for a potentially deep connection between information theory (which is not cast as a physical theory and instead quantifies the efficacy of communication through noisy channels), and thermodynamics, which is a branch of physics(5) due to the mathematical relationship between Shannon and Boltzmann entropies. Substantial work over the last decade has attempted to make this connection explicit, we point the reader to [22, 20] for recent reviews. Schrodinger was aware of this link in his deliberations on biology, and famously coined the term “negentropy” to describe life’s ability to seemingly violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics(6) . Yet he felt that something was missing, and that thermodynamic considerations alone are insufficient to explain life [26]:
   “. . .living matter, while not eluding the ”laws of physics” as established up to date, is likely to involve ”other laws of physics” hitherto unknown . . . ”
   – Erwin Schrodinger
   We suggest one approach to get at these “other laws” is to focus on the connection between the concept of “information” and the equally ill-defined concept of “causation” [34, 17, 9]. ,,,
   Conclusions:
   There are many difficult open problems in understanding the origin of life – such as the ‘tar paradox’ [2] and the fact that prebiotic chemistry is just plain hard to do. These problems differ qualitatively from the ‘hard problem of life’ as identified here. Most open problems associated with life’s origin such as these, while challenging right now, will likely ultimately reduce to known principles of physics and chemistry and therefore constitute by our definition “easy problems”. Here we have attempted to identify a core feature of life that won’t similarly be solved based on current paradigms – namely, that life seems distinct from other physical systems in how information affects the world (that is, that macrostates are causal).,,,
   To quote Einstein, ‘One can best feel in dealing with living things how primitive physics still is.’
   ( A. Einstein, letter to L. Szilard quoted in [25]).
   http://arxiv.org/pdf/1606.07184v1.pdf

   In the reductive materialistic paradigm that currently dominates much of Origin of Life research, immaterial information (and immaterial mind) is simply not recognized as being its own independent and causally effective entity that is separate from matter and energy. In fact, in the current reductive materialistic paradigm that dominates practically all of biological sciences, immaterial information and immaterial mind are both held to be ‘abstract’ entities that ultimately reduce to purely materialistic explanations. That is to say, neither immaterial mind nor immaterial information are held to be real and causally effective entities in the reductive materialistic, i.e. Darwinian, scheme of things that currently dominates much of biological science.

   But as George Ellis stated in his article on ‘top-down causation’, the computer sitting in front of you right now is proof that immaterial mind and immaterial information are both causally effective,,

   “The mind is not a physical entity, but it certainly is causally effective: proof is the existence of the computer on which you are reading this text. It could not exist if it had not been designed and manufactured according to someone’s plans, thereby proving the causal efficacy of thoughts, which like computer programs and data are not physical entities.”

   To further establish the causal efficacy, i.e. physical reality, of immaterial information, independent of matter and energy, we can now also appeal to advances in our empirical science.

   First off, information has now been experimentally shown to have a ‘thermodynamic content’:

   Demonic device converts information to energy – 2010
   Excerpt: “This is a beautiful experimental demonstration that information has a thermodynamic content,” says Christopher Jarzynski, a statistical chemist at the University of Maryland in College Park. In 1997, Jarzynski formulated an equation to define the amount of energy that could theoretically be converted from a unit of information2; the work by Sano and his team has now confirmed this equation. “This tells us something new about how the laws of thermodynamics work on the microscopic scale,” says Jarzynski.
   http://www.scientificamerican......rts-inform

   This work on elucidating the precise relationship between information and thermodynamics, has now been extended:

   New Scientist astounds: Information is physical – May 13, 2016
   Excerpt: Recently came the most startling demonstration yet: a tiny machine powered purely by information, which chilled metal through the power of its knowledge. This seemingly magical device could put us on the road to new, more efficient nanoscale machines, a better understanding of the workings of life, and a more complete picture of perhaps our most fundamental theory of the physical world.
   http://www.uncommondescent.com.....-physical/

   Information engine operates with nearly perfect efficiency – Lisa Zyga – January 19, 2018
   Excerpt: Physicists have experimentally demonstrated an information engine—a device that converts information into work—with an efficiency that exceeds the conventional second law of thermodynamics. Instead, the engine’s efficiency is bounded by a recently proposed generalized second law of thermodynamics, and it is the first information engine to approach this new bound.,,,
   https://phys.org/news/2018-01-efficiency.html
2. 2
   bornagain77 says:

   February 5, 2019 at 6:38 am

   A surprising detail, (a detail that I have still not completely wrapped my immaterial mind around), is revealed in the following article

   In the following article a Professor is quoted as saying, “Now in information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,,”

   The Quantum Thermodynamics Revolution – May 2017
   Excerpt: the 19th-century physicist James Clerk Maxwell put it, “The idea of dissipation of energy depends on the extent of our knowledge.”
   In recent years, a revolutionary understanding of thermodynamics has emerged that explains this subjectivity using quantum information theory — “a toddler among physical theories,” as del Rio and co-authors put it, that describes the spread of information through quantum systems. Just as thermodynamics initially grew out of trying to improve steam engines, today’s thermodynamicists are mulling over the workings of quantum machines. Shrinking technology — a single-ion engine and three-atom fridge were both experimentally realized for the first time within the past year — is forcing them to extend thermodynamics to the quantum realm, where notions like temperature and work lose their usual meanings, and the classical laws don’t necessarily apply.
   They’ve found new, quantum versions of the laws that scale up to the originals. Rewriting the theory from the bottom up has led experts to recast its basic concepts in terms of its subjective nature, and to unravel the deep and often surprising relationship between energy and information — the abstract 1s and 0s by which physical states are distinguished and knowledge is measured.,,,
   Renato Renner, a professor at ETH Zurich in Switzerland, described this as a radical shift in perspective. Fifteen years ago, “we thought of entropy as a property of a thermodynamic system,” he said. “Now in information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,,
   https://www.quantamagazine.org/quantum-thermodynamics-revolution/

   To reiterate, “Entropy,,, is a property of an observer who describes a system.” ??? If any claim ever contradicted the reductive materialistic claims of Darwinists, that claim is certainly it!

   But anyways, (leaving that tantalizing tidbit on the relationship between immaterial mind and immaterial information aside for the moment, and of related interest to immaterial information having a ‘thermodynamic content’), classical digital information was found to be a subset of ‘non-local’, (i.e. beyond space and time), quantum entanglement/information by the following method which removed heat from a computer by the deletion of data:

   Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy – June 2011
   Excerpt: No heat, even a cooling effect;
   In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that “more than complete knowledge” from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, “This doesn’t mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine.” The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what’s known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says “We’re working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it.”
   http://www.sciencedaily.com/re.....134300.htm

   In the following article, (and in direct contradiction to the reductive materialistic claims of Darwinian evolution), Dr. Vaccaro states in regards to the preceding thought experiment that “Landauer said that information is physical because it takes energy to erase it. We are saying that the reason it (information) is physical has a broader context than that.”,

   Scientists show how to erase information without using energy – January 2011
   Excerpt: Until now, scientists have thought that the process of erasing information requires energy. But a new study shows that, theoretically, information can be erased without using any energy at all.,,, “Landauer said that information is physical because it takes energy to erase it. We are saying that the reason it (information) is physical has a broader context than that.”, Vaccaro explained.
   http://www.physorg.com/news/20.....nergy.html

   Information is physical (but not how Rolf Landauer meant) – video
   https://youtu.be/H35I83y5Uro

   Although the preceding is certainly very strong evidence for the physical reality of immaterial information, the coup de grace for demonstrating that immaterial information is its own distinct physical entity, separate from matter and energy, is Quantum Teleportation:

   Quantum Teleportation Enters the Real World – September 19, 2016
   Excerpt: Two separate teams of scientists have taken quantum teleportation from the lab into the real world.
   Researchers working in Calgary, Canada and Hefei, China, used existing fiber optics networks to transmit small units of information across cities via quantum entanglement — Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance.”,,,
   This isn’t teleportation in the “Star Trek” sense — the photons aren’t disappearing from one place and appearing in another. Instead, it’s the information that’s being teleported through quantum entanglement.,,,
   ,,, it is only the information that gets teleported from one place to another.
   http://blogs.discovermagazine......-HqWNEoDtR

   Moreover, this ‘physically real’ quantum information is also found to be ‘conserved’ (as in it cannot be created nor destroyed).

   Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time
   Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment.
   http://www.physorg.com/news/20.....tally.html

   Moreover, this physically real quantum information can perform a number of tasks that are impossible for classical information. And indeed these ‘impossible tasks’ that quantum information is able to perform, provides the motivation for trying to build quantum computers.

   Quantum Entanglement and Information
   Quantum entanglement is a physical resource, like energy, associated with the peculiar nonclassical correlations that are possible between separated quantum systems. Entanglement can be measured, transformed, and purified. A pair of quantum systems in an entangled state can be used as a quantum information channel to perform computational and cryptographic tasks that are impossible for classical systems. The general study of the information-processing capabilities of quantum systems is the subject of quantum information theory.
   http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-entangle/

   As well this physically real quantum information, which cannot be created or destroyed, (and of which classical information is a subset), is also now found in molecular biology on a massive scale. In every DNA and protein molecule:

   “What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state.”
   Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it)
   https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176

   Classical and Quantum Information Channels in Protein Chain – Dj. Koruga, A. Tomi?, Z. Ratkaj, L. Matija – 2006
   Abstract: Investigation of the properties of peptide plane in protein chain from both classical and quantum approach is presented. We calculated interatomic force constants for peptide plane and hydrogen bonds between peptide planes in protein chain. On the basis of force constants, displacements of each atom in peptide plane, and time of action we found that the value of the peptide plane action is close to the Planck constant. This indicates that peptide plane from the energy viewpoint possesses synergetic classical/quantum properties. Consideration of peptide planes in protein chain from information viewpoint also shows that protein chain possesses classical and quantum properties. So, it appears that protein chain behaves as a triple dual system: (1) structural – amino acids and peptide planes, (2) energy – classical and quantum state, and (3) information – classical and quantum coding. Based on experimental facts of protein chain, we proposed from the structure-energy-information viewpoint its synergetic code system.
   http://www.scientific.net/MSF.518.491
3. 3
   bornagain77 says:

   February 5, 2019 at 6:38 am

   Quantum coherent-like state observed in a biological protein for the first time – October 13, 2015
   Excerpt: If you take certain atoms and make them almost as cold as they possibly can be, the atoms will fuse into a collective low-energy quantum state called a Bose-Einstein condensate. In 1968 physicist Herbert Fröhlich predicted that a similar process at a much higher temperature could concentrate all of the vibrational energy in a biological protein into its lowest-frequency vibrational mode. Now scientists in Sweden and Germany have the first experimental evidence of such so-called Fröhlich condensation (in proteins).,,,
   The real-world support for Fröhlich’s theory (for proteins) took so long to obtain because of the technical challenges of the experiment, Katona said.
   http://phys.org/news/2015-10-q.....otein.html

   Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules
   Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say.
   That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.”
   The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
   “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?”
   https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552

   How quantum entanglement in DNA synchronizes double-strand breakage by type II restriction endonucleases – 2016
   Implications concluding paragraph: The discovery of quantum states in protein-DNA complexes would thus allude to the tantalizing possibility that these systems might be candidates for quantum computation. The evidence is mounting for the implementation of such technology.
   Biology is characterized by macroscopic open systems in non-equilibrium conditions. Macroscopic organization of microscopic components (e.g., molecules, ions, electrons) that exhibit quantum behavior is rarely straightforward. Knowing the microscopic details of the constituent interactions and their mechanistic laws is not sufficient. Rather, as this work has shown, molecular systems must be contextualized in their local biological environments to discern appreciable quantum effects.
   https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4746125/

   Moreover, this Quantum Information in molecular biology, since it can perform computational tasks that are impossible for classical information, provides coherent solutions for the protein folding enigma, DNA search problems, and for exactly why life is so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium in the first place.

   Information and Thermodynamics in Living Systems – Andy C. McIntosh – 2013
   Excerpt: ,,, information is in fact non-material and that the coded information systems (such as, but not restricted to the coding of DNA in all living systems) is not defined at all by the biochemistry or physics of the molecules used to store the data. Rather than matter and energy defining the information sitting on the polymers of life, this approach posits that the reverse is in fact the case. Information has its definition outside the matter and energy on which it sits, and furthermore constrains it to operate in a highly non-equilibrium thermodynamic environment. This proposal resolves the thermodynamic issues and invokes the correct paradigm for understanding the vital area of thermodynamic/organisational interactions, which despite the efforts from alternative paradigms has not given a satisfactory explanation of the way information in systems operates.,,,
   http://www.worldscientific.com.....08728_0008

   Biophysics – Information theory. Relation between information and entropy: – Setlow-Pollard, Ed. Addison Wesley
   Excerpt: Linschitz gave the figure 9.3 x 10^12 cal/deg or 9.3 x 10^12 x 4.2 joules/deg for the entropy of a bacterial cell. Using the relation H = S/(k In 2), we find that the information content is 4 x 10^12 bits. Morowitz’ deduction from the work of Bayne-Jones and Rhees gives the lower value of 5.6 x 10^11 bits, which is still in the neighborhood of 10^12 bits. Thus two quite different approaches give rather concordant figures.
   http://www.astroscu.unam.mx/~a.....ecular.htm

   “a one-celled bacterium, e. coli, is estimated to contain the equivalent of 100 million pages of Encyclopedia Britannica. Expressed in information in science jargon, this would be the same as 10^12 bits of information. In comparison, the total writings from classical Greek Civilization is only 10^9 bits, and the largest libraries in the world – The British Museum, Oxford Bodleian Library, New York Public Library, Harvard Widenier Library, and the Moscow Lenin Library – have about 10 million volumes or 10^12 bits.”
   – R. C. Wysong – circa mid 1970s

   In a TED Talk, (the Question You May Not Ask,,, Where did the information come from?) – November 29, 2017
   Excerpt: Sabatini is charming.,,, he deploys some memorable images. He points out that the information to build a human infant, atom by atom, would take up the equivalent of enough thumb drives to fill the Titanic, multiplied by 2,000. Later he wheels out the entire genome, in printed form, of a human being,,,,:
   [F]or the first time in history, this is the genome of a specific human, printed page-by-page, letter-by-letter: 262,000 pages of information, 450 kilograms.,,,
   https://evolutionnews.org/2017/11/in-a-ted-talk-heres-the-question-you-may-not-ask/

   Will Teleportation Ever Be Possible? – video – 2013
   https://youtu.be/yfePpMTbFYY?t=76
   Quote from video:
   “There are 10^28 atoms in the human body.,, The amount of data contained in the whole human,, is 3.02 x 10^32 gigabytes of information. Using a high bandwidth transfer that data would take about 4.5 x 10^18 years to teleport 1 time. That is 350,000 times the age of the universe.”

   Darwinian Materialism vs Quantum Biology – video
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHdD2Am1g5Y

   Darwinism vs Biological Form – video
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyNzNPgjM4w
4. 4
   bornagain77 says:

   February 5, 2019 at 6:39 am

   Besides providing direct empirical falsification of Landauer’s claim, and neo-Darwinian claims in general, claims that say immaterial information does not exist apart from its representation on a physical medium, the implication of finding ‘non-local’, beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’, quantum information in molecular biology on such a massive scale, in every DNA and protein molecule, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious.
   That pleasant implication, or course, being the fact that we now have very strong physical evidence directly implying that we do indeed have an immaterial, and eternal, soul that is very well capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies.

   As Stuart Hameroff states in the following video, ‘the quantum information,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed,,, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”

   “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
   – Stuart Hameroff – Quantum Entangled Consciousness – Life After Death – video (5:00 minute mark)
   https://youtu.be/jjpEc98o_Oo?t=300

   Verse and video:

   Mark 8:37
   “Is anything worth more than your soul?”

   Quantum Mechanics, Special Relativity, General Relativity and Christianity – video
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4QDy1Soolo

   Thus in conclusion, contrary to the dogmatic reductive materialistic claims of Darwinists, there is much evidence establishing the independent physical reality of immaterial information apart from matter-energy.

   Of supplemental note, the empirical evidence establishing the reality of immaterial mind, the reality of free will in particular, is gone over in the following post:

   (December 2018) Neuroscientific and quantum validation of free will
   https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/three-knockdown-proofs-of-the-immateriality-of-mind-and-why-computers-compute-not-think/#comment-670445

   Verse:

   John 1:1-4
   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5. 5
   ScuzzaMan says:

   February 5, 2019 at 7:48 am

   OT, but goes to logic:

   “Through Him all things were made”

   IF the set of “all things” that were made encompasses souls then souls are not immortal.

   Does God give guidance on this point, to let us know if souls are inside or outside the set of all (made) things?

   “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”

   Hmm.
6. 6
   ellijacket says:

   February 5, 2019 at 11:48 am

   @ScuzzaMan,

   A created soul could definitely be immortal. It just would not be eternal. God is eternal because He has always existed. Human’s are immortal because they will always exist from the time of their creation. Two different concepts.

   Also, death means separation, not necessarily the cessation of life. A soul can die physically and spiritually without ceasing to exist.
7. 7
   ScuzzaMan says:

   February 5, 2019 at 12:33 pm

   Ellijacket,

   I quoted you the actual text.

   You can’t beat something with nothing.