Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Coming to grips with specified complexity

Categories
Intelligent Design
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Measuring it:

One of the central requirements of design arguments is to evaluate the probability of patterns emerging through undirected processes. Examples of evaluation schema have included Behe’s irreducible complexity, Ewert et al.’s algorithmic specified complexity (ASC), and Hazen et al.’s functional information. In my previous article, I focused on the last measure. All of these approaches attempt to quantify what is termed specified complexity, which characterizes complex patterns containing meaningful (i.e., specified) information. The various approaches have been generalized by computer scientist George Montañez (see here and here). He enumerated the core steps for constructing and evaluating any measure of specified complexity:

1. Determine the probability distribution for observed events based on assumed mechanisms. In other words, identify for each possible event the probability for it to occur.

2. Define a function that assigns to each event a specificity value.

3. Calculate the canonical specified complexity for an outcome by taking the negative log (base 2) of the specified complexity kardis, which is the ratio of the event’s probability to its specificity value multiplied by a scaling factor.

4. Determine the likelihood for an event to occur resulting from any proposed mechanism with the assumed probability distribution. The upper probability is equal to the kardis. If the probability is exceedingly small, the claim that the outcome occurred through the proposed mechanism can be rejected with high confidence.

Brian Miller, “The Information Enigma: Going Deeper” at Evolution News and Science Today:

Provided we are still allowed to have the discussion, of course.

Comments
Yes, they did follow up on that, UB. They realized their position was worse than hopeless so they ignored what they saw and went back to the attack.ET
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
05:53 AM
5
05
53
AM
PDT
. What was that fella's name that tried to put forth the math on a non-ID origin of life? I remember that he had to figure in (what he openly admitted) were incredibly generous, even comical, assumptions into his calculations. If I remember correctly, he ended up concluding that actual physical reality would require an infinite multiverse just to get the needle to move. All this, coming from a recognized expert in computational biology; a committed materialist who is regularly invited to peer-review OoL papers submitted for publication into the scientific literature, not to mention being some big-shot lead investigator at some prominent research organization. I can't remember his name, but it sounded something like "Eugene Koonin", or something like that. I wonder if any of the ID critics have ever followed up on that? I wonder if those kinds of calculations actually mean anything to materialists?Upright BiPed
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
05:48 AM
5
05
48
AM
PDT
1. Determine the probability distribution for observed events based on assumed mechanisms. In other words, identify for each possible event the probability for it to occur.
As Dr Donald Johnson has written "they" don't even deserve a seat at the probability table. The only reason anyone has to figure out the probability distribution is because "they" don't have any evidence nor a methodology to test their claims. So the whole thing is moot. By even attempting a probability distribution we are giving them more than they deserve.ET
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
05:30 AM
5
05
30
AM
PDT
Earth to Bob O'H- Have you and yours done anything? You don't even have a methodology to test your claims. You don't have anything and that is why probability arguments exist- because you don't have anything. You chumps need to forget about ID and get to work on your own claims.ET
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
05:25 AM
5
05
25
AM
PDT
JVL, it is a context for setting up models for discussion. In effect, the frameworks already discussed imply or give such models, e.g. surveys of AA patterns in observed p[rotein families giving refinements on flat 1 in 20 distributions, etc. KFkairosfocus
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
04:35 AM
4
04
35
AM
PDT
Has anyone in the ID community actually done this? I've not seen step 1 done for any realistic assumed mechanisms.Bob O'H
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
04:24 AM
4
04
24
AM
PDT
This seems to be extremely similar to Dr Dembski's metric give in his 2005 paper Specification: the Pattern that Signifies Intelligence. It seems like some of the factors listed would be very hard to come up with: 1. Determine the probability distribution for observed events based on assumed mechanisms. In other words, identify for each possible event the probability for it to occur. Plausible in some circumstances. 2. Define a function that assigns to each event a specificity value. How would that work? What is the range for a specificity value? 3. Calculate the canonical specified complexity for an outcome by taking the negative log (base 2) of the specified complexity kardis, which is the ratio of the event’s probability to its specificity value multiplied by a scaling factor. I don't think 'kardis' is a common word for a mathematical expression but he goes with ratio so it's clear. What kind of scaling factor? 4. Determine the likelihood for an event to occur resulting from any proposed mechanism with the assumed probability distribution. Not sure how you could assign a probability for 'any proposed' mechanism . . . Anyway, if any one has an example of this particular procedure being followed I think it would be illustrative to bring it to this thread.JVL
June 25, 2020
June
06
Jun
25
25
2020
02:11 AM
2
02
11
AM
PDT
So many chemical reactions in different type of mechanisms inside of nature happen Occur all the time Why is life such a rare event if it was based off of a chemical reaction Even our structures and our body would be built in and predicted by physics and yet it only seems to happen once As a simplistic parallel an acid and a bases mixed will always create precipitant Alex Rosenberg tried to make this point by paralleling the formation of quartz crystals to the formation of life But here’s the reality these things happen all the time and they happen all around us Life grows and changes but it looks like it requires life to continue that process And even though we have many many studies going to abiogenesis why has it been that we cannot get it to produce life Yet everything has to follow the ideology of Ochmans razorAaronS1978
June 24, 2020
June
06
Jun
24
24
2020
04:50 PM
4
04
50
PM
PDT
1 3 4 5

Leave a Reply