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Darwinist Theodosius Dobzhansky was NOT an orthodox Christian believer!

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I cannot believe I am hearing this nonsense again! The debate over the teaching of purposeless evolution in the school system retails more urban legends than a group of high school girls smoking in the women’s can.

In the Correspondence section of Nature, we can read, from U Kutschera , Institute of Biology, University of Kassel, Heinrich-Plett-Strasse 40, D-34109 Kassel, Germany (Nature 443, 26(7 September 2006) | doi:10.1038/443026b), yet another defence of Theodosius Dobzhansky, as a Darwinist poster boy for theistic or even Christian faith, sort of:

Dogma, not faith, is the barrier to scientific enquiry

[ … ]

He collaborated for many years with Ernst Mayr, who, when asked about his religious views, replied: “I am an atheist. There is nothing that supports the idea of a personal God. On the other hand, famous evolutionists such as Dobzhansky were firm believers in a personal God. He would work as a scientist all week and then on Sunday get down on his knees and pray to God” (Skeptic 8, 76-82; 2000.

In about 1950, Dobzhansky and Mayr founded our modern ‘atheistic’ evolutionary theory. Their work showed that Christians and atheists can cooperate to develop scientific theories, as long as religious dogma is not mixed up with facts and experimental data. Unfortunately, this is exactly what young-Earth creationists and intelligent-design theorists are doing. They should read the 1973 essay in which Dobzhansky – an open-minded, non-dogmatic theist – thoroughly refuted their irrational claims.

Dobzhansky was, of course, free to believe whatever he wanted, but in what sense was he a Christian or a theist?

Australian biologist Stephen E. Jones, who keeps up with these things better than anyone I know, has the goods on Dobzhansky’s real state of faith. He writes me,

Dobzhansky really was an orthodox believer. That is, if you don’t count “fundamental beliefs of traditional religion, such as the existence of a personal God and of life beyond physical death”!:

and quotes :

Dobzhansky was a religious man, although he apparently rejected fundamental beliefs of traditional religion, such as the existence of a personal God and of life beyond physical death. His religiosity was grounded on the conviction that there is meaning in the universe. He saw that meaning in the fact that evolution has produced the stupendous diversity of the living world and has progressed from primitive forms of life to mankind. Dobzhansky held that, in man, biological evolution has transcended itself into the realm of self-awareness and culture. He believed that somehow mankind would eventually evolve into higher levels of harmony and creativity. He was a metaphysical optimist.” (Ayala, F.J. & Fitch, W.M., Genetics and the origin of species: An introduction,” Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, Vol. 94, July 1997, pp.7691-7697, p.7693.

Now, I have to admit, I smile when I think of the middle Americans who go away from a meeting with the Darwinist spokesfolks, vastly relieved to hear that Dobzhansky was a “religious man,” and then they can go back to sanctified materialism with a good conscience. They certainly do not want to know that Dobzhansky’s views would hardly qualify him to be considered a Christian, let alone Orthodox, because the basic statements of the Creed stand in fundamental opposition to them.

Steve Jones offers some more information that might help:

Those who really understand Darwinism, but still have spiritual inclinations, have the option of making a religion out of evolution. Theodosius Dobzhansky – Gould’s prime example of a Christian evolutionist – actually exemplified the religious dimension of Darwinism. Dobzhansky discarded the traditional Christian concept of God, followed Teilhard de Chardin in spiritualizing the evolutionary process, and worshipped the glorious future of evolution. … See Francisco Ayala, `Nothing in biology makes sense except the light of evolution,’ _The Journal of Heredity_, vol. 68, pp.3, 9 (Jan.-Feb. 1977). Ayala described his teacher’s religion as follows: `Dobzhansky was a religious man, although he apparently rejected fundamental beliefs of traditional religion, such as the existence of a personal God and of life beyond physical death. His religiosity was grounded on the conviction that there is meaning in the universe. He saw that meaning in the fact that evolution has produced the stupendous diversity of the living world and has progressed from primitive forms of life to mankind. Dobzhansky held that, in man, biological evolution has transcended itself into the realm of self awareness and culture. He believed that somehow mankind would eventually evolve into higher levels of harmony and creativity.'” (Phillip E. Johnson, “Response to Gould”, Origins Research, Access Research Network, Vol. 15, No. 1, Spring/Summer 1993, pp. 10-11. )

also from Johnson:

The leading Darwinist authorities are frank about the incompatibility of their theory with any meaningful concept of theism when they are in friendly territory, but for strategic reasons they sometimes choose to blur the message. When social theorist Irving Kristol published a New York Times column in 1986 accusing Darwinists of manifesting doctrinaire antitheism, for example, Stephen Jay Gould responded in Discover magazine with a masterpiece of misdirection. [Gould, S.J., “Darwinism Defined: The Difference Between Fact and Theory,” Discover, January 1987, pp. 64-70] Quoting nineteenth century preacher Henry Ward Beecher, Gould proclaimed that ‘Design by wholesale is grander than design by retail,’ neglecting to inform his audience that Darwinism repudiates design in either sense To prove that Darwinism is not hostile to ‘religion,’ Gould cited the example of Theodosius Dobzhansky, whom he described as `the greatest evolutionist of our century, and a lifelong Russian Orthodox.’ As Gould knew very well, Dobzhansky’s religion was evolutionary naturalism, which he spiritualized after the manner of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. A eulogy published by Dobzhansly’s pupil Francisco Ayala in 1977 described the content of Dobzhansky’s religion like this: `Dobzhansky was a religious man, although he apparently rejected fundamental beliefs of traditional religion, such as the existence of a personal God and of life beyond physical death. His religiosity was grounded on the conviction that there is meaning in the universe. He saw that meaning in the fact that evolution has produced the stupendous diversity of the living world and has progressed from primitive forms of life to mankind. Dobzhansky held that, in man, biological evolution has transcended itself into the realm of self- awareness and culture. He believed that somehow mankind would eventually 44 Darwinism and Theism evolve into higher levels of harmony and creativity.’ [Ayala, F.J., “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution,” Journal of Heredity , Vol. 68, January-February 1977, pp. 3, 9] Evolution is thoroughly compatible with religion-when the object of worship is evolution.” (Johnson, P.E., “Darwinism and Theism”, in Buell J. & Hearn V., eds., “Darwinism: Science or Philosophy?” , Foundation for Thought and Ethics: Richardson TX, 1994, pp.43-44.)

So now you know what to think when you hear someone retailing this “Dobzhansky as believer” nonsense.

Comments
Myers, Dawkins, and others are at least honest about the ultimate implications of a purposeless, unguided, accidental universe full of trillions of happy accidental creatures. Yeah, they don't like theistic evolutionists too much over there. Not like here, where we get a warm welcome. I'm not a theistic evolutionist, but I play one on the Web.Carlos
September 8, 2006
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Fross- unfortunately, with comments like the last you made, you seem to be giving credence to the popular idea that darwinism is atheistic. Surely, someone who believes in God will be more open minded in regards to design, which leads to the philosophical question of who was the designer (which isn't part of ID, but it leads to philosophy which can extend the ideas into that realm.) Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc- will all, no doubt, be more inclined to accept the evidence for design. An atheist is going to deny evidence for design until the cows come home, because of the fear that that design might come from a higher designer he might be accountable to. In the end- we can turn your comment around. If you read PT, AntiEvolution, many of the other sites, you will see most of these people are most likely atheists. I guess that means that since most who believe an unguided, purposeless process brought about all of life are atheists then NDE= atheism and Darwinists should stop hiding that fact. Myers, Dawkins, and others are at least honest about the ultimate implications of a purposeless, unguided, accidental universe full of trillions of happy accidental creatures.JasonTheGreek
September 8, 2006
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I think the point of Denyse's post was to counter the argument used by the NCSE and Kenneth Miller crowd that one can be a Bible-believing Christian and believe in Darwinism at the same time. It's interesting to note that all the so-called "Christian" Darwinists believed (and still believe) in the greatest heresies of theology proper: theosophy (Dobzhansky), deistic tendencies (most of them), and process theology (Miller). All of these beliefs are clearly contrary to both very clear statements in Scripture as well as all the major Christian creeds throughout the centuries. So, unless you want to define the word "Christian" in a very post-modern sense in which an idol-worshipping Hindu can be called a Christian, then these guys are certainly not orthodox.Ryan
September 8, 2006
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Fross: remember back in the day when the I.D. movement was trying it’s hardest to hide the Christian foundation of its agenda? ID doesn't have a Christian foundation. I am not a christian yet I am an IDist. And if ID did have a Christian foundation I would be getting into more arguments than I do already. Christians can be IDists, sure. So can followers of Islam, Buddha, Tsaoism and agnostics. IDists being religious has about as much impact on ID as atheists have on evolution.Joseph
September 8, 2006
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@ DaveScot ***What perplexes me most about the whole thing is why God seemingly needed human messengers and scribes when he could have published the ten commandments engraved on the face of the moon in any number of written languages. In any case I was saved as a child according to the tenets of one large Christian denomination and once saved is saved forever. Is that not true? You don’t believe God is an indian giver do you? Or do you dispute the tenets of the church I attended as a child? Paul isn’t God. *** Before, I give a reply, I won't assume you haven't heard what I'm about to say before, but I'd like to hear your responses. I'm betting you have investigated the rebuttal of what I quoted from you comment, but just in case here it goes! Well, your right God didn't need human vessels, but he chose "Earthen Vessels," as Paul puts it so that God gets all the glory. For ex., if God were to have a basketball team you might think he would clone 5 Michael Jordans, but he'd prb come w/ five, 6-year old girls in order to show that it was something else (ie God) that enabled them to win. Second, you (and actually almost 99% of the world) are working of the premise that God owes them something, like the 10 commandments on the moon as opposed to a manuscript written by a Jew (Paul) or a fisherman (Peter). It can be most clearly seen when people say "Why does God send anybody to hell?" You NEVER see someone complain "Why does God let anybody into heaven?" People assume (as I believe it is our sinful nature) that they and many others don't deserve hell, but assume to have no prb w/ going to heaven. Paul, isn't God, but he came w/ many miraculous deeds to prove/vailidate his ministry. Is it really up to us to decide who God uses? I think Paul supplied enough proof miraculously and his writings has stood the test of time to be validated as genuine apostle of Christ. My question to you is, there are many, many, old Greek manuscripts that indicate that it was faithfully recorded. Things like the Muratorian Canon, the writings of the Apostolic fathers, pretty much bode well that there was a faithful rendition of the New Testament. What except speculation makes you doubt and what evidence does God owe you to make you believe (esp in the light that there are millions and millions who say God has indeed given enough)? I suppose you don't have to believe it all, but to say it wasn't faithfully transferred or that God hasn't given enough proof is another thing, is it not? God is not an indian giver indeed, it probably means that you didn't count the cost to be an disciple of Christ when you were a kid! That happens very often in Christianity and is most def. not an isolated experience. Plenty of people have heeded "altar calls" as children only to later realize as adults they were not really saved at the time.jpark320
September 8, 2006
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From Denyse: Some, above, have apparently confused my doubt whether Theodosius D's faith can properly be called Christian with questioning the state of his soul - which my Christian faith forbids and for which, in any event, I have no relevant skills. Essentially, those who insist that the world think Dr. D. a Christian have the clear purpose of reassuring us all that one can be a good Christian and a good Darwinist at the same time. Thus, it is relevant that Dr. D's student, Francisco Ayala, thinks that Dr. D. believed neither in a personal God nor in life after death. In that case, he was not a good Christian, in the sense that he could not have affirmed any orthodox Christian creed that I know of. Of course he may have been a much better person than I will ever be, but that bar was not set very high.O'Leary
September 8, 2006
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remember back in the day when the I.D. movement was trying it's hardest to hide the Christian foundation of its agenda? I'm glad to see it's all out in the open now.Fross
September 8, 2006
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This entire discussion has been confused. No one is focusing on the real issue, which is one of meaning. What does the word “Christian” mean? Before we can answer that question we have to decide what it means to mean. I prefer Wittgenstein’s take on that subject. Meaning is usage. There is no Platonic form for the English word “Christian,” which is what some of the commenters seem to assume when they say “Christian means X and nothing else.” No, in current English usage “Christian” has a wide variety of meanings, each of which is perfectly valid for the purposes for which it is used. One meaning of the word is what I call “cultural Christian.” DaveScott appears to fall within this category. A cultural Christian may not accept the tenants of the historic Christian faith, but he continues to call himself a Christian and has Christian weddings, funerals, etc. Another meaning is what I would call traditional Christian. This is a person who accepts the basic tenants of the 2,000 year-old Christian faith. EdH seems to fall within this category. What does it mean to accept the basic tenants of the faith? It has been formulated as those tenants that have been confessed everywhere, at all times, by all Christians. In our pluralistic society, this formulation certainly does not work as well as it did 100 years ago. In the event, I think Denyse proposed a perfectly valid line of demarcation in her post. A traditional Christian is one who subscribes to the great creeds of the faith. Carlos has suggested another meaning, what I will call the “mystic Christian.” He defines this category as “anyone who is “responsive to certain metaphysical worries that only a Christian would feel and [who responds] to those worries in a way that would only make sense to a Christian.” OK, its a free country and Carlos can use the word any way he chooses, though I suspect few people would find his definition very helpful in figuring out what a Christian is. Now the problem to which Denyse is alluding in her post is not a problem of classification or meaning. It is a problem of equivocation. Carlos’ formulation to the contrary notwithstanding, when most people use the word “Christian,” they do not use it to describe people who believed as Dobzhansky evidently did. And Denyse is calling the letter writer in “Nature” for equivocating and trying to make people believe that Dobzhansky was a “Christian” as they understand the word, when he clearly was not. Stu Harris is worried about judging someone else’s salvation. This is a valid concern, and only God knows the condition of Dobzhansky’s soul. However, I think the point of Denyse’s post is that she uses the word “Christian” to mean a person who subscribes to the great creeds, and by his own admission Dobzhansky did not fall within that category, so she is not judging his salvation.BarryA
September 8, 2006
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"In any case I was saved as a child according to the tenets of one large Christian denomination and once saved is saved forever. Is that not true? You don’t believe God is an indian giver do you? Or do you dispute the tenets of the church I attended as a child?" Dave, I don't think God breaks his promises. But I think his salvation promise assumes a certain level of commitment. Was the original "conversion" valid if there is little or no evidence of ongoing Christian faith and commitment? Every Christian needs to ask him/herself this same question, whether they are regular church attenders or simply make an intellectual assent to Christian ethics.russ
September 8, 2006
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"It’s not like it’s hard to find a Christian who accepts Darwin’s ideas." It's not hard to find someone who call themselves christian who cheats, steals and lies either.Smidlee
September 8, 2006
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Wasn't Dobzhansky the one who said that evolution is a process that didn't have Man in mind? If so, how does that harmonize with Biblical Christianity?Mats
September 8, 2006
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Sorry, I've never heard of the guy. It's not like it's hard to find a Christian who accepts Darwin's ideas. This post makes it seem like there's just this one fella, and now that's even being questioned. heh sorry the evolution=atheism thing is just so far out there and wrong.Fross
September 8, 2006
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While there are lots of theologies out there and many flavors of "Christian," the New Testament definition has to do with establishing a personal relationship with God through faith in Christ. To cite just one of many possible references, Romans 3 says, "But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight--not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago. We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done." Pretty cool, actually. Note in particular the "not by obeying the law... but by trusting in Christ..." distinction. In spite of the fact that this is a fairly common view, doing good works to somehow earn god’s acceptance doesn’t cut it. Faith/trust/belief is all that's required to enter into this relationship--what he calls, "being right in his sight." This tends to cut through a lot of the clutter: Ritual, church attendance, moral behavior, or association with this or that tradition become either irrelevant or secondary. So was Dobzhansky a Xian? Because the definition is primarily an internal matter of the heart only G can ultimately determine whether someone believes or not. On the other hand, is it likely that certain Darwinists drop his name in a disingenuous attempt to score points with theists? I think this is likely.SteveB
September 8, 2006
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they [i.e. Christian mystics] believe that, to truly “know” God, one must go beyond mere senses and reason. This is achieved by meditation and allowing God to reveal Himself through our silence and listening with spiritual ears. In other words, they believe that God, as He truly is, goes far beyond all material things. Fine enough, so far as it goes -- but that's consistent with thinking that, with respect to "all material things," NDE is the best theory we've got so far. I don't know if Dobzhansky himself would have put it that way, but I don't see why one couldn't put both think that and be entitled to consider himself a Christian. As I said before, Christian is not a natural kind that can be defined in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions. The Creeds are one way of defining what it means to be a Christian, and they've acquired a weight and authority for those who identify with the historical narrative of Christianity. But in the history of any complex social movement that ranges widely in time and space, there will be vexed issues, bones of contention, fuzzy boundaries, etc. -- and it's important that we attempt to sort this out, and impose some conceptual order on the social and political chaos -- but the chaos always comes back. We'd be much better off if we acknowledged that right off the bat, I think, than think that someone is not a Christian/Jew/American/etc. if they don't meet the criteria on the check-list.Carlos
September 8, 2006
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If you believe Christ was a cool guy and a moral fellow- that’s great and all, but if you deny he was the son of God and rose from the dead, as Paul himself said- your faith is meaningless and worth nothing. Paul isn't God. The premise of ‘he’s a moral guy but not God’- that’d make Christ, in your mind, a lunatic, as he claimed he IS God. Your evidence that Christ claimed to be God is based on secondhand reports thousands of years old, correct? Maybe he was misunderstood. There are a lot of language barriers and opportunities for revisionism along that path. Or maybe he had to make the claim in order to be taken seriously and given the number of Christians 2000 years later I'd say it was genius not lunacy if what he wanted to accomplish was transforming the world. Or maybe he said it and it was true. I don't know. What perplexes me most about the whole thing is why God seemingly needed human messengers and scribes when he could have published the ten commandments engraved on the face of the moon in any number of written languages. In any case I was saved as a child according to the tenets of one large Christian denomination and once saved is saved forever. Is that not true? You don't believe God is an indian giver do you? Or do you dispute the tenets of the church I attended as a child? Paul isn't God.DaveScot
September 8, 2006
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Carlos, Your comment "There’s a long tradition of Christian mystics who have held that God can’t be a person, in any ordinary sense of person (and if not in an ordinary sense, then in what sense?)." This is a bit misleading. It is not that Christian mystics believe that God does not have the characteristics of a person, e.g., love, intention, will, a mind, etc. Rather, they believe that, to truly "know" God, one must go beyond mere senses and reason. This is achieved by meditation and allowing God to reveal Himself through our silence and listening with spiritual ears. In other words, they believe that God, as He truly is, goes far beyond all material things. Therefore, Christian mystics are as far as one can get from Materialistic thinking. And, they do not, generally speaking, have any reason in their methods and views that make it necessary to violate the basic tenets of Christianity. The original piece makes the point that Theodosius Dobzhansky, in his own statements, may have contradicted the tenets in a fundamental manner. As to what the tenets of Christianity are, the Apostles' Creed may serve as well as anything.Ekstasis
September 8, 2006
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Jason I don't deny Christ's divinity. I'm unsure of it. My mind isn't wired in a way that I can accept things as unquestionaly true that are not firmly rooted in empiricism. If that bars me from the pearly gates there's nothing I can do about it. Fake faith is no faith at all and I can't believe that a loving God would give anyone a rational mind then punish them for using it.DaveScot
September 8, 2006
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Ekstasis I think it's kind of comical when they cop those attitudes. I live in (liberal compared to the rest of the state) Austin, Texas in an upscale neighborhood where it seems everyone but me goes to church on Sunday. Most of my social circle is composed of very successful, well educated Christians. In fact now that I think about it the less successful tend to be the ones who don't regularly attend church - I'm the exception to the rule. I think Christian culture, as opposed to Christian faith, imparts a discipline that leads to success in life. My faith is in the culture rather than the divine masthead and that's what leads me to defend the faith, so to speak, with vigor.DaveScot
September 8, 2006
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I think most of you are missing the point. The point is that Darwinists use him as a tool to say- 'look, he was a Darwinist and a Christian, when in fact he wouldn't fit any definition of Christian that makes sense to me.' If you deny the very basic tenants of the faith, are you really part of it? It's silly. Like someone above said- it's like saying you're an evolutionist but denying common descent, mutations, selection, etc. I don't think Denyse is indicting his soul or his faith- she's indicting those who use him as a tool to claim 'look- you can be a Christian and still believe in a purposeless, pointless, unguided process that brought you here, even though it's completely oppisite of what the entire bible teaches.' The creed is what you go by. The fathers of the religion said A, B, and C need to be met to be labelled Christian. If not- why bother? If you believe Christ was a cool guy and a moral fellow- that's great and all, but if you deny he was the son of God and rose from the dead, as Paul himself said- your faith is meaningless and worth nothing. The premise of 'he's a moral guy but not God'- that'd make Christ, in your mind, a lunatic, as he claimed he IS God. Is a lunatic really a moral compass to follow? Point, I think, trying to be made was- Darwinists use him to say ' look, a Darwinist Christian, no worries, you can buy into NDE yourself.' when in fact the guy wouldn't meet the definition of a Christian that the apostles themselves put forth.JasonTheGreek
September 8, 2006
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In defense of the original premise, the point is not to judge one's soul. Nor is it really even about Theodosius Dobzhansky. Rather, it seems more about the tactics of the Materialist elitists. They appear to waffle between the following strategies: A. "We are smarter and better than you, the unwashed, superstitious (religious) masses, so we could care less what you think". B. "We are just like the common folk, so much so, that we even have "Christians" in our ranks. So, now you common folk need to believe what we say, because, you see, we stooped down to your level (at least we pretended to for the moment)." C. "We are so smart that we can be inconsistent, in such a clever manner, and you will not even notice. That is why we pontificate one moment that religion is for the weak and unknowledgeable (i.e., less evolved) and completely irrational. And the next moment we point out that religion is consistent with our material beliefs, as long as the religion fits our criteria for what form it takes, and who is approved to believe it."Ekstasis
September 8, 2006
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Ed Carlos, to be a Christian, you pretty much have to belive in the Christ, the messiah, the Son of God. Christ is the root word of “Chrisitan” after all. When one loses one's faith he is not automatically ejected from his Christian church nor is he encouraged to stop calling himself a Christian. IMO there's a lot more about being a Christian than unquestioning faith that Christ is the Son of God incarnate. One can believe, as I do, that Christ set an example in moral behavior for us to follow in our lives and regardless of divine origins or not the example is worthy in and of itself. I daresay most of us that are middle-aged or older were raised as Christians in North America and some of us have lost our faith for one reason or another but still try to conduct ourselves according to our upbringing in moral matters. We still have Christian weddings, Christian funerals, baptise our children, and otherwise participate in church activities and rituals. I know many people who fit that description. Moreover, I was taught as a youngster in Baptist bible study that once you're saved it's irrevocable. Is that not true?DaveScot
September 8, 2006
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Denise, Your analyzing and questioning of the faith of someone who claimed to be a Christian is completely out of bounds. Especially given that he's dead and can't respond. I'm Eastern Orthodox and I know I cannot judge the sincerity of someone else's faith. I can judge their ideas, but the only one who "has the goods on Dobzhansky’s real state of faith" is Christ. Stu Harris www.theidbookstore.comStuartHarris
September 8, 2006
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There's a long tradition of Christian mystics who have held that God can't be a person, in any ordinary sense of person (and if not in an ordinary sense, then in what sense?). Consider, for example, John Scotus Erigena or the Cloud of Unknowning. Are they Christian? It would seem so. But their views seem no less heterodoxical than those of Dobzhansky or Teilhard de Chardin. Would you insist that Chardin, a Jesuit, was not a Christian? I would say that he was responsive to certain metaphysical worries that only a Christian would feel and that he responded to those worries in a way that would only make sense to a Christian. That's enough to make him a Christian in my books, because being a Christian isn't the sort of thing that has necessary and sufficient conditions. (A Christian is not a natural kind, if you will.) One is a Christian if the personal story one tells about oneself only makes sense in light of the world-historical narrative of Christianity -- likewise for other large and complex concepts that figure prominently in personal identity, such as "straight" or "Jewish" or "feminine." I think that's enough for de Chardin to count as a Christian, and Dobzhansky too. The real point at stake here is that in order to continue to count as a Christian, Dobzhansky nevertheless had to think about how to re-conceptualize what it means to be a Christian in light of evolution. But that's not a deal-breaker, either. Previous generations of Christian theologians and lay thinkers have had to think hard about how to reconceptualize what it means to be a Christian in light of heliocentrism, the demise of Aristotelian metaphysics, the difficulties in a literal interpretation of the Bible, etc. So it's not really clear to me why de Chardin and Dobzhansky are all of sudden considered to have wandered off the reservation, so to speak.Carlos
September 8, 2006
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Carlos, to be a Christian, you pretty much have to belive in the Christ, the messiah, the Son of God. Christ is the root word of "Chrisitan" after all. It is hard to see how someone can be a Christian and then reject the concept of Jesus coming down as the personal human incarnation of God, and reject that He is the messiah, or savior, which will save one bringing them to eternal life after death. From the post above: "Dobzhansky was a religious man, although he apparently rejected fundamental beliefs of traditional religion, such as the existence of a personal God and of life beyond physical death." This has nothing to do with the No True Scotsman argument. To call someone who rejects a personal God and life beyond physical death a Christian makes about as much sense as calling someone an evolutionist that rejects the natural selection, change over time and mutations parts.EdH
September 8, 2006
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In other words, Dobzhansky was "no true Christian," right?Carlos
September 8, 2006
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