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Darwin’s “Sacred” Cause: How Opposing Slavery Could Still Enslave

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darwin-as-ape3Those who follow the Darwin industry are very familiar with Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist by Adrian Desmond and James Moore. In that biography they were one of the few biographers to highlight young Charles’ Edinburgh years (October 1825 to April 1827) and show the powerful influences that experience had on the teenager. Here too in Desmond and Moore’s new Darwin’s Sacred Cause, Edinburgh becomes the substantive starting point. This is as it should be since the freethinkers he would be exposed to in the radical Plinian Society (a largely student-based group Darwin seemed to relish given his attendance at all but one of its 19 meetings during his stay there) would have a profund influence on his thinking for the rest of his life. Desmond and Moore correctly acknowledge this, observing that this period “helped condition his life’s work on the deepest social — and scientific — issues” (17). Indeed the Plinians would steep Charles in a radical materialism that the present biographers admit was “mirrored” in his work a decade later (35).

All well and good so far. But not quite.  This is a book with its own cause. From the outset the authors explain frankly that , “We show the humanitarian roots that nourished Darwin’s most controversial and contested work on human ancestry” (xviii). And those “humanitarian roots,” we are told again and  again throughout its 376 narrative pages was Darwin’s passionate and unwavering hatred of slavery.  “No one has appreciated the source of that moral fire that fuelled his strange, out-of-character obsession with human origins. Understand that,” they insist, “and Darwin can be radically reassessed” (xix).  And what is that reassessment?  The reader is not left waiting:  “Ours is a book about a caring, compassionate man who was affected for life by the scream of a tortured slave” (xx).

At issue, of course, isn’t the horrific abomination of slavery nor Darwin’s abhorrence of it (this has long been known and acknowledged by historians) but rather the purported impact that Desmond and Moore claim his abolitionism had on his theory’s development and purpose.  In short, the question is, does the anti-slavery Darwin necessarily make for a “kinder, gentler” Darwin? An affirmative answer must rest upon two supports, one conceptual and the other factual. The remainder of this essay will examine both to answer this question.

 
One of the more interesting trajectories of this book is it anchoring in Darwin’s early Edinburgh years, a comparatively short period but one fraught with significance for Darwin.  In this starting point I fully concur with Desmond and Moore.  While many look to his voyage on the Beagle (December 1831 to October 1836) as introducing the young naturalist to the fullness of nature’s laboratory that would culminate in his theory of natural selection and a wholly naturalistic evolutionary theory, these authors point to the earlier Edinburgh experiences as establishing the seminal backdrop for all else that would follow.  They point out that Edinburgh was rife with discussions of race, cranial size, and phrenology.  Some attempted to demonstrate the validity of scientifc racism, others the opposite. All — or nearly all — were cast in materialistic terms. Desmond and Moore’s summary is quite accurate:

So this wasn’t the barren period Darwin in his biography would have us believe.  Issues of environmental versus anatomical determinism, and a self-animated versus a Creatively animated nature, were being thrashed out all around him, issues which would have repurcussions for generations, inside and outside Darwin’s own work.  Arguments about brain sizes, innate dispositions and racial categories were still raging, putting a consensus some way off.  Groups were competing to sway the students and Darwin was at the center of it. But the young innocent probably wasn’t so much embroiled as wide-eyed.  Still, many of these themes would later resurface in his own work on human racial descent (43).

During Darwin’s stay at Cambridge, he too was exposed to many ideas, not the least of which was a vocal but conflicted anti-slavery impluse.  Through it all, insist Desmond and Moore, Darwin “held fast with radically pliant ‘brotherbood’ science and shackle-breaking ideology in true Whig tradition” (57).  Indeed Darwin would, according to the authors, reject the measuring, weighting, calculating racial anthropologists (those self-important, confident phrenologists and physiognomists)  he had found in Edinburgh.  “No skull collecting would mark his science,” they insist.” He would find a very different way of approaching black and white, slave and free” (110).

It is important to keep this claim in mind since it is crucial to Desmond and Moore’s thesis that while he became a “secret materialist — happy to have brains secrete even religious notions as physiological byproducts” (132), he would eschew the scientific racism implicit (and more often than not explicit) in this radical materialism in favor of a wholly naturalistic theory confirming a common descent and botherhood of all mankind. They refer to it as generations of “brotherly common descents” (141).

How he accomplishes this forms a considerable part of Darwin’s Sacred Cause. Basically, by establishing common descent as a viable scientific paradigm, Darwin was able to settle the old monogenist/polygenist debate once and for all.  The monogenists viewed human development on earth as emanating from a common pair — this was, for some, most eloquently described in the opening chapters of Genesis.  But there were non-biblical monogenists as well.  Polygenists, however, believed in multiple origins for humanity.  As America headed towards Civil War, the polygenists held the upper hand.  The biblical monogenism of James Cowles Prichard (1786-1848) looked antiquated against the “scientific” racism of Josiah Clark Nott (1804-1873), George R. Gliddon (1809-1857), and others. Desmond and Moore describe in detail how Darwin sought to establish a viable counter to the polygenists with an explanation of human origins that was at once naturalistic and based upon a common descent.  In effect, a science of human oneness and brotherhood.  They describe how the publication of Darwin’s Origin in 1859 tipped the scales permanently in his favor, citing the example of Charles Loring Brace (1826-1890), an abolitionist firebrand who claimed to have read the book thirteen times.

All this is true.  Darwin was adamantly opposed to slavery, Darwin did end — eventually — the polgenists’ claim to scientific respectability.  But this alone would hardly warrant a book.  As mentioned before, historians have long known of Darwin’s consistent antipathy towards slavery.  As for his role in settling the monogenist/polygenist dispute, that too has long been known (n. 1). The essential problem with Desmond and Moore’s effort is their naive assumption that anti-slavery means egalitarian and humanitarian.  This is a conceptual problem that haunts the book throughout. There really is no reason to assume an immediate and direct relationship between the one and the other, and the example of Charles Loring Brace given above goes not only to this point but to demonstrate the selective treatment they give to this whole subject.  Charles Loring Brace was indeed a vocal opponent of slavery and also and ardent Darwinist. What Desmond and Moore do not say is that Brace viewed blacks as inherently inferior and was himself a vocal opponent of miscegenation.  In the words of historian George M. Fredrickson, Brace made “the Darwinian case for differentiation of the races by natural selection . . . [and] ended up with a view of racial differences which was far from egalitarian in its implications” (n. 2). Brace held out little hope for “the mullato” and finished up by declaring, “there is nothing in the gradual diminution and destruction of a savage or inferior race in contact with a more civilized and powerful which is ‘mysterious’ . . . . The first gifts of civilization are naturally fatal to a barbarous people . . . . (n. 3). Fredrickson quite accurately points out that “Brace’s pioneering effort to devolop a Darwinist ethnology in opposition to the American School, although animated to some degree by antislavery humanitarianism, had demonstrated that most of the hierarchical assumptions of the polygenists could be justified just as well, if not better, in Darwinian terms” (n. 4).

The example of Josiah Clark Nott underscores this point.  Desmond and Moore spend considerable time showing how the Alabamian’s rabid polygenism formed the basis for an extreme racism and justification for slavery; they fail to point out that in the end Nott was able to reconcile with Darwinism.  Nott recognized at once that he had been outdone by Darwin’s irreligious formulations.  Writing to Ephraim Squire in the summer of 1860, Nott quipped, “the man [Darwin] is clearly crazy, but it is a capital dig into the parson — it stirs up Creation and much good comes out of such thorough discuassions” (n. 5).  In the end, Nott came to accept Darwin’s theory of man’s common descent.  Indeed he claimed nothing of what he wrote on the race question was negated but simply refined, and who was not to say that even in Darwin’s world races might not be “permanent varieties” (n. 6).  The point, of course, isn’t whether or not any of this is true — it is obvious nonsense and most of Nott’s contemporaries recognized it as such — but whether Darwin’s defeat of polygenist theory and its replacement with his common descent really had any difference in the end toward establishing a science of brotherhood is doubtful.  Brace, Nott, and many others could enbrace common descent precisely because it suggested nothing close to racial brotherhood.

This poor conceptualization of anti-slavery and ipso facto humanitarianism is compounded by a misunderstanding of Darwin himself.  Desmond and Moore correctly point out the crucial impact that the Edinburgh freethinkers had upon him and his theory, but they are simply wrong in contending that he distanced himself from their emerging racial craniology.  Their denials notwithstanding, there were skulls in Darwin’s science.  In his Descent of Man (1871) Paul Boca’s crantiometry is referenced approvingly.  While Darwin was careful to avoid the implication that “the intellect of any two animals or of any two men can be accurately gauged by the cubic contents of their skulls,” he seemed to give accumulated aggregate craniometric data some evidentiary weight.  “The belief that there exists in man some close relation between the size of the brain and the development of the intellectual faculties is supported by the comparison of skulls of savage and civilized races, of ancient and modern people, and by the analogy of the whole vertebrate series” (n. 7).  Citing the work of physician/craniologist Joseph Barnard Davis (1801-1881), Darwin noted that Europeans had a cranial capacity of 92.3, Americans 87.5, Asiatics 87.1, and Australians 81.9 cubic inches.  Clearly, if Darwin did in fact believe in a brotherhood of man it was a very unequal brotherhood.

Darwin’s “bullbog defender” Thomas Henry Huxley provides yet another example.  A devoted Darwinian, Huxley did not translate common descent into common equality.  Like Brace, Huxley was relieved to witness the end of America’s “peculiar institution.”  Writing at the end of the war that had raged for four years across the Atlantic, Huxley said, “But whatever the position of stable equilibrium into which the laws of social gravitation may bring the negro, all responsibility for the result will henceforward lie between nature and him. The white man may wash his hands of it, and the Caucasian conscience be void of reproach for evermore.  And this, if we look to the bottom of the matter, is the real justification for the abolition policy” (n. 8). Even Desmond and Moore must admit that Huxley “shared none of Darwin’s ‘man and brother’ sympathy” (275).

But how keen really was that “man and brother” sympathy for Darwin himself?  After well over 300 pages of explication designed to show how Darwin’s anti-slavery passion led to his “brotherly common descent” we find the crux of the matter:  “It was a humanitarianism that Darwin took pride in. His anti-slavery and anti-cruelty ethic was inviolate. Yet the incongruity of his class holding this ethic sacrosanct while disparaging the ‘lower’ classes (even as colonists displaced or exterminated them) [emphasis added] is impossible to comprehend by twenty-first century standards” (370).  Darwin was indeed a product of his class as any reading of his Descent will prove; in fact, it formed the very basis of his conception of man as a social animal (n. 9).  But it will take more than Desmond and Moore’s eight pages of dismissive discussion of Descent to see that.  Instead the quotation above would imply they’re trying get Darwin off the hook by pleading he was just a “man of his times” and failure to appreciate this dichotomy is mere presentism.  Frankly, it would have been incomprehensible for some in the nineteenth century as well — Thaddeus Stevens (1792-1868), Theodore Weld (1803-1895), William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879), Wendell Phillips (1811-1884), John Marshall Harlan (1833-1911), and George Frisbie Hoar (1826-1904) found this kind of hypocracy repugnant.  Darwin’s work was supposed to be prescient, path-breaking, revolutionary.  But by book’s end Darwin looks pretty conventional, even compliantly if somewhat minimally racist himself.  Writing to former slave-holder Charles Kingsley, Darwin admits, “It is very true what you say about the higher races of men, when high enough, will have spread & exterminated whole nations.”  Desmond and Moore admit, “racial genocide was now normalized by natural selection and rationalized as nature’s way of producing ‘superior’ races. Darwin ended up calibrating human ‘rank’ no differently from the rest of his society.  After shunning talk of ‘high’ and ‘low’ in his youthful evolution books, he had ceased to be unique or interesting on the subject” (318).

So in the end we find Darwin’s “sacred” cause was, well, not all that sacred. His cause was less about slavery and more about common descent, which in the final analysis had nothing whatsoever to do with equality.  In fact, it could easily be argued Darwin cleared out the polygenists to give way to a new generation of racial discriminators and engineers.  Based upon Darwinian principles, Darwin’s fascination with breeder and domestic stocks, opened the door to manipulating human “stock,” of managing and even culling the “unfit.” Not that Darwin himself would have condoned that, but surely, Francis Galton (1822-1911), took the evolutionary ball handed him by his cousin and ran with it.  In the end, Darwin’s cause was hardly humanitarian and by no means sacred.  As the lampooning cartoon that opens this essay suggests, if Darwin proved that man is a mere animal related (however distantly) to his ape ancestors then, like the domestic pigeons he was so fond of studying and analogizing from, mankind was capable of being bred, manipulated, and “improved.”  That sort of biological historicism unleashed by Darwinian theory has exacted an enormous price.

Of course, this suggests a connection between Darwin and the more unseemly Social Darwism.  I have likely imposed upon the reader’s time long enough, but for those who would like to explore this in greater detail, Mike Hawkin’s Social Darwinism in European and American Thought, 1860-1945 (Cambridge UP, 1997) is highly recommended.  For now, I will simply say that Darwin’s Sacred Cause has proved not what its authors intended, but instead that passionate opposition to slavery could — indeed did — enslave this Victorian elitist who was shackled (if not by racism) by a theory that was crafted to support his own class and prejudice.  History is full of irony!

Notes

1. See Herbert H. Odum, “Generalizations on Race in Nineteenth-Century Physical Anthropology,” Isis 58.1 (Spring 1967): 4-18.

2. George M. Fredrickson, The Black Image in the White Mind: The Debate on Afro-American Character and Destiny, 1817-1914 (New York: Harper Torchbook, 1971), p. 234.

3. Quoted in Ibid., p. 235.

4. Ibid.

5. John S. Haller Jr., Outcasts from Evolution: Scientific Attitudes of Racial Inferiority, 1859-1900, 2nd ed. (Carbondale: Southern Illinois University Press, 1995), p. 80.

6. Ibid.

7. Charles Darwin, Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex (1871; reprinted, New York: Barnes & Noble, 2004), p. 42.

8. Thomas Henry Huxley, “Emancipation — Black and White” (1865),  http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE3/B&W.html accessed 2/15/09.

9.  Like his fellow Victorian imperialists, Darwin could view the extinction of indigenous peoples with an unsettling indifference. There is considerable evidence to support the view that Darwin saw struggle as product of culture and class more than race:  “When civilized nations come into contact with barbarians the sturggle is short, except where a deadly climate gives its aid to the native race. Of the causes which lead to the victory of civilized nations, some are plain and simple, others complex and obscure. We can see that the cultivation of the land will be fatal in many ways to savages, for they cannot, or will not, change their habits. . . . The grade of their civilization seems to be a most important element in the success of competing nations.” Descent, op. cit., p. 156.

Darwin always viewed indigenous peoples with the Eurocentric eyes of power and class, and he had thought this long before writing Descent. In The Voyage of the Beagle he wrote the following of the natives he encountered on Tierra del Fuego:

The perfect equality among the individuals composing the Fuegian tribes must for a long time retard their civilization. As we see those animals, whose instinct compels them to live in society and obey a chief, are most capable of improvement, so it is with the races of mankind. Whether we look at it as a cause or consequence, the more civilized always have the more artificial governments. For instance, the inhabitants of Otaheite, who, when first discovered, were governed by hereditary kings, had arrived at a far higher grade than another branch of the same people, the New Zealanders, — who, although benefited by being compelled to turn their attention to agriculture, were republicans in the most absolute sense. In Tierra del Fuego, until some chief shall arise with power sufficient to secure any acquired advantage, such as the domestication of animals, it seems scarcely possible that the political state of the country can be improved. At present, even a piece of cloth given to one is torn into shreds and distributed; and no one individual becomes richer than another. On the other hand, it is difficult to understand how a chief can arise till there is property of some sort by which he might manifest his superiority and increase his power.

I believe, in this extreme part of South America, man exists in a lower state of improvement than in any other part of the world. — Charles Darwin, The Voyage of the Beagle, 2nd ed. (1845; reprinted, New York: Tess Press, n.d.), pp. 214-215.

Basing Darwin’s humanitarianism on his abhorrence of slavery and a purported “brotherhood of man” largely misses the point. Historians have long known that Darwin’s racial classifications were based more upon levels of cultural attainment than ethnic groups. See, for example, Goria McConnaughey, “Darwin and Social Darwinism,” Osiris 9 (1950): 397-412.

Comments
Mark Frank, Correct me if I am mistaken, but I assume we would agree that the current moral opinion of the simple majority does not define for you (or me) what is "wrong." I believe we would agree that the majority could be mistaken in our view. Although you don't always include the qualifier explicitly, I assume that every time you refer to grounding or finding support in the belief that most people would agree with you, you at least implicitly qualify this in some way. Correct so far? Further, even though you have worded this qualification in a variety of ways (see my earlier summaries), I am assuming that you intend to have a consistent qualification. If you sometimes qualified it one way, other times a different way, and other times did not qualify it at all, then that would almost certainly be a case of muddled and inconsistent reasoning. My belief is that you don't intend that. Nevertheless, the differences in how your qualification could be taken are profound and crucial to determining if you are saying something logical but debatable, or else perhaps a truism whose only application would be self-delusional, since it would never actually show or support any conclusion. I tried to point this out in 160, and the same concern is in my recent posts, e.g. 165, 171 and 173. If you really intend the qualification to be "if they saw it the way I do" then you have a truism that can never be false. Obviously, if they don't agree, they don't see it the way you do. On the other hand, if you intend that by merely having access to the same observational facts about a situation, then you expect most people would have the same moral reaction as you, that is not a truism, but it is also very doubtful. If that is what you mean, you have not yet wrestled with the issue of perspective, e.g. in a conflict whether they empathize or view it from the perspective of the victor or the vanquished, the one who passes the Darwinian filter of natural selection, or those who may not, and so on. If you mean something else that is not a truism, then at the very least there would be cases where others could know exactly what you know or see it as you see it (or however you choose to word it) and yet most of them do not agree with you and would react differently than you. If that is both meaningful and possible within what you intend, then please discuss a couple illustrating examples. NOTE: I don't mean analogies such as with viewing films. I'm looking for examples of moral judgments and moral reactions where the majority may indeed disagree with you, even if they fulfilled your qualification completely and perfectly. As you give the example, try to state the qualification in a way that makes clear you are not describing a truism, if that is not the case. Examples where your hypothetical test fails, if that is possible, should help clear up this pivotal point. Thanks much.ericB
March 4, 2009
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----"When I say that my moral beliefs are grounded in the belief that others would agree if they would see my point of view – I mean that I believe they mostly accept the same reasons for things being good or bad." Obviously this commentator is unaware of the fact that two out of every three individuals in the free world no longer believe that there is any such thing as "good" and "bad." (Those who are persecuted know better) Once, almost everyone believed that the disctincion between right and wrong is real. So, the real question is this: How did the numbers get from 80-90% to 33%. Answer: The decline was caused by academia's anti-intellectual assault on reason. ---"So if I present them with all the facts that I know (and maybe explain why I think they are relevant) then there is a really good chance that they will agree." What "facts" could this commentator be talking about. I thought we had all agreed that we cannot derive an "ought to" from an "is." In any case, his whole structure is based on collective opinions about personal feelings, so I don't know why facts have suddenly become relevant to him. The only relevant fact is the existence of the natural moral law, a point that he has already rejected. On the matter of agreement, all relativists agree that morality is whatever they would prefer it to be and that they should be permitted to be a law unto themselves. So, it is no real surprise that they have come to a consensus on that trvial fact. ----"Of course they may know things I don’t know, or may be able to make points which had not occurred to me which would cause me to change my mind." One wonders what such a fact could be. Will this commentator do us the courtesy of telling us? We already know that he does not find the natural moral law persuasive. What fact could be more compelling and decisive than that? What is to prevent him from simply dismissing any new fact and characterizing it as a personal opinion, just as he did with the natural moral law?StephenB
March 4, 2009
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EricB First I want to thank you for patiently continuing this discussion. I am very clear in my own mind about the nature of morality and moral language but explaining and convincing others is difficult. Where time permits, I need the practice. In this comment I will concentrate on #171. I think your example of choosing a brand of salt is confusing two kinds of support. I don’t think anyone is disputing that there is such a thing as disagreement on ethical matters. And I certainly don’t claim that I have any special privileges when it comes to such a debate. I just have a view as to what that debate means. To me your salt example is analogous to someone who is arguing that it is right to give money to the Red Cross rather than Oxfam and gives as a reason that it is morally right to give to charities. It would be absurd to offer this argument because they are both charities. However, it would be reasonable to argue that the Red Cross uses the money more effectively or more fairly or whatever (I have no idea whether this is true. It is just an example). The important point is that most people would agree that “being more effective” and “being fairer” are good things. It is the process that we have in common – what counts as an argument – not the details of our case. Without some common process it would not be a conversation it would just be a shouting match (it is interesting to reflect that when choosing a brand of salt almost anything might be a valid argument – which reflects the very subjective nature of the choice). When I say that my moral beliefs are grounded in the belief that others would agree if they would see my point of view – I mean that I believe they mostly accept the same reasons for things being good or bad. So if I present them with all the facts that I know (and maybe explain why I think they are relevant) then there is a really good chance that they will agree. If I didn’t believe that most people would accept the same reasons for things being good or bad, then my arguments would indeed be no more than personal preferences. Of course they may know things I don’t know, or may be able to make points which had not occurred to me which would cause me to change my mind. So far the situation is not much different from debating an objective issue e.g whether it will rain tomorrow. We accept similar reasons for supposing whether it will rain tomorrow and if we didn’t it would be hard to discuss it. The key difference between arguing about the rain and arguing about ethics is that if someone says “I don’t think that suffering is a bad thing” or “respecting the caste system is a good thing” then you have no way of proving them wrong. If someone says “I don’t think that heavy clouds are a reason for expecting rain” you can expect at some stage to be able to say something like “there were heavy clouds and look it is raining”. But you will never get into a position where you can say “there is the caste system and look it is wrong”. That's because the word "wrong" is not describing a separate attribute wrongness. The best you can do is search for commonly held argument e.g. “yes – but look at the suffering the caste system creates”. I am not sure whether this answers your objections but no doubt you will tell me.Mark Frank
March 4, 2009
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To Mark Frank, I look forward to your thoughts concerning the issues raised by my posts 171 and 173. I apologize that in 173 I used a opening blockquote where it should have been a closing blockquote. I hope you can still distinguish and follow my comments (though they look like parts of quotations from you) without too much difficulty.ericB
March 3, 2009
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@184. correction...."I would like for them to know, among other things, that it is irrational to hold such notions that something can come from nothing or that monkeys and humans should live by the same moral code."StephenB
March 3, 2009
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---Mark: "StephenB, KF, CJYman. I am sorry - I don’t have time even to read everything you have all written much less respond. I will stick to responding to EricB." EricB is an outstanding commentator and he always tempers his dialogue with admirable patience and courtesy. I have no doubt that your interaction with him will be edifying for you in some way. Perhaps the two of you will come to come kind of meeting of the minds. If so, I will celebrate that event. I, on the other hand, have no such ambition. My aim is to expose the errors of postmodernistic skepticism and the intellectual poison that is killing our culture. While I worry for secularist educators, I worry much more about their victims, unwilling combatants who have been conditioned to hate truth for its own sake while being isolated from any other point of view. I understand that one does not come back from this kind of brainwashing overnight, and I also understand that many do not want to come back from it. Still, they deserve to be told at least one time that they have rational minds, that they live in a rational universe, and that there is a correspondence between the two. Excuse me, but I would like for them to know, among other things, that it is irrational to hold such notions that something can come from nothing or that monkeys and humans should live by the same moral code as humans. Having said that, I also realize that most cynics reject absolute truth and morality not because it makes no sense but rather because they would prefer to be a law unto them selves. If they were interested in truth they would be pursuing it rather than running away from it. My aim is not to convert them or dialogue with them but to expose them so that others will not have to endure the same fate. So, while I am open to dialogue with those who militate against reason, I don't necessarily need their participation in order to expose their errors.StephenB
March 3, 2009
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StephenB, KF, CJYman. I am sorry - I don't have time even to read everything you have all written much less respond. I will stick to responding to EricB.Mark Frank
March 3, 2009
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... which leads us to the understanding that logic is the arbiter of science, not the other way around, and thus "scientism" as the arbiter of truth is out the window. Furthermore, since logic requires subjective experience -- it requires our ability to have first person awareness of our thoughts in order to order them [thoughts] logically -- and it is the foundation of science, which is the system which discovers the objective, then it makes sense that the subjective underlies the objective and not vice versa. Sorry that is a bit off topic ... just my "two sense."CJYman
March 3, 2009
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CJY: Indeed, I think it was Socrates who was challenged to prove that logical proofs were valid. The rejoinder was simple: ,i>it would rtake reasoned argument -- i.e logic -- to do that. Logic, in short, is the premise of reasoned argument, and so cannot be proved thereby. We TRUST it because (i) we understand it as rational animals, (ii) we see that it works well enough, (iii) we see that ignoring it gets us into trouble, and (iv0 we see that denying it lands us in evident absurdities. But, all of the above requires assuming the basic principles and canons of logic to do, including non-contradiction, excluded middle and identity. More broadly, the attempt to warrant A requires basis B, which leads to C, D . . . Thus (on pain of infinite regress), we end up at a faith-point f, where we take somethings as credible and trustworthy without further proof or warrant. Then, to avoid circularity, we accept tha tthere are alternative start-points F1, F2, . . . Fn. So we compare the difficulties across them, and selectt he best on balance. That is the big job of philosophy. And, shutting down the process of comparative difficulties leads to indoctrination and deception, precisely what seems to be going on with Lewontinain materialism:
Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. [Lewontin, NY Review of Books, 1997. Unfortunately, that is what now seems to be the "official" position of the NAS, the NCSE, School boards in key states, and even courtrooms . .. ]
So, are we back at the problem of Plato's Cave -- false enlightenment, perhaps backed up by politically correct manipulation and indoctrination? GEM of TKIkairosfocus
March 3, 2009
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Mark, Technically, some on my list are means of arriving at objective truth rather than objectivee truth itself. I am trying to begin with easy ones. But let us consider your response. ----"The trouble is statements A through I differ. A-B are straightforward matters of fact (assuming “we” refers to the human species)." I am glad that you accept them as true. ----"MF: "I am not convinced that either general rule is true (everything has a beginning--everything has a cause) but I am sure the particular cases are true based on straightforward empirical knowledge about species." So, does that mean that you think some effects have causes while others do not? ----"F-G are logical statements." (Law of non-contradiction) Not quite. F and G are the axioms that make logic possible. Do you accept them as true? ----"H is pretty much meaningless without further definition." I you think that H is meaningless, then you fall into the same error as Kant. He did not take it into account. ----"I think I is false. Once again, anyone who doubts this [either the universe was brought into being or else it always existed] is hampered in his ability to reason in the abstract. As a matter of curiosity, what possible third alternative could you have in mind? Take time out to read the above comments by kairosfocus, which are quite good. ----"The clearest candidates in your list are F and G. They are true. I am not convinced that we don’t reason our way to them (although clearly we reason from them as well)." We cannot reason our way to them. We must assume them. They are axiomatic. If one doubts that some truths are self evident, he will be left at the starting gate doubting everything that should be understood as obvious. ----"I am very suspicious of any generalisations or deductions from the a priori synthetic. Too many great minds have been debating this for millenia without any consensus. This is truly what Wittgenstein meant when talked of philosophy being the bewitchment of the intelligence by language." The so-called great minds are also capable of huge mistakes. Read Adler's essay "Little Errors in The Beginning." Kant's error has done great damage to Western Civilization and all who follow him are seriously compromised in their ability to reason in the abstract. There are two extremes [A] Mindless faith on the one end and [B] hyperskepticism on the other end. By the way, you might be interested to know that Kant ended up refuting his own skepticism in his final foray into the metaphysical foundations of morals. The Academy never meantions that fact. Few of its gatekeepers even know it, and the ones that do guard the secret carefully. They don't want well-educated people refuting their postmodern fantasies. For those who would escape the bonds of anti-intellectualism, I recommend that they stop reading Kant and start reading Chesterton. Begin with "Orthodoxy."StephenB
March 3, 2009
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Also, on the topic of self evident truths, the fundamental axioms of logic such as the law of the excluded middle is also a self evident truth; there is no way to reason from scientific methods of hypothesis, testability, and potential falsifiability to arrive at those fundamental axioms of logic.CJYman
March 3, 2009
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It seems you are right on the money kf. Is not a miracle a highly improbable occurrence which is purported to have no material cause?CJYman
March 3, 2009
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PPPS: Onlookers consider: is belief in a a causeless coming into being any whit materially different from belief in miracles? (So, who believes in the much derided supernatural now?)kairosfocus
March 3, 2009
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PPS: It is worth briefly taking up MF's:
>>I think I is false.>>
Cf. SB's statement I: Either the Universe was caused or else it always existed. 1 --> Here the issue is, contingency vs necessity of being, in the context of there being a sufficient reason for what exists to be or to become. 2 --> The cosmos exists [with us in it], as massive experience assures us beyond reasonable dispute. 3 --> It may always have existed in some form, or it came into being. If the latter, it reasonably had a cause: it is generally acknowledged absurd and contrary to how we actually live to assume or assert that something comes into existence out of nothing -- not space, time, matter, energy intelligence, mind etc. (In short, to deny this is to expose oneself -- justly -- to the claim that one is being selectively hyperskeptical, so self -referentially inconsistent and self-refuting. Cf below.) 4 --> That is, per the fact of our own contingent existence in a cosmos that credibly had a beginning some 13.7 BYA, there "must be" a ground of that coming- into- existence; not "nothing." So, if the observed universe is not eternal, there is a wider universe that is, or something/ someone else that is. 5 --> But, perhaps [if say the steady state theory were true, which is logically possible; or something like that . . .], the universe we observe did not come into existence: it, in some form, has always been there. It would then be eternal and uncaused. 6 --> So, it is reasonable -- on pain of selectively hyperskeptical self- referential inconsistency [most likely the claim that there are or may be causeless comings- into- being] -- to conclude that the universe is either caused or eternal. 7 --> To this the usual objection is that the objector finds it "logically possible" for causeless comings into being to occur. So, the proposer is then challenged to "prove" that that is impossible. 8 --> To that, the best refutation is through common sense understanding of the ways of our world: such objectors never infer to that in any other serious case of consequence, e.g. if their wallet vanishes from their pocket they consider that state of affairs the result of action by a pickpocket, not that of a state of affairs coming into causeless being. 9 --> So, the attempt to reverse burden of proof against al experience, is selectively hyperskeptical. It is afge to dismiss it, pending only provision of credible evidence that coming into being can be without a ground of that being. 10 --> In short, it is the usual objection that is most credibly false, not the proposition at I. ______________ But of course, there is also a motivating context for the objection: we are here very close to an argument that points form our evidently contingent cosmos, to its cause. For, if little bangs have a cause, so should Big Bangs. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
March 3, 2009
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Onlookers: MF is raising a significant issue, on the types of truths that exist. However, Mortimer Adler raises a significant issue, that the e is a gap in how we are thinking, in his essay on Little Errors in the Beginning. (NB: Steve, I hope I am serving as a good intro here, not stealing some of your thunder!) For, there is a good reason to think that there are such things as self-evident truths, deniable only on pain of serious misunderstanding of our experience as conscious intelligent reasoning creatures who have a modicum of old-fashioned common-/ good- sense [philo + sophia, after all is, properly, at root the love of wisdom . . . ]; and ending up in all sorts of self-referential absurdities. Here is a key excerpt from the just linked: _______________ The little error in the beginning, made by Locke and Leibniz, perpetuated by Kant, and leading to the repudiation of any non-verbal or non-tautological truth having incorrigible certitude, consists in starting with a dichotomy instead of a trichotomy -- a twofold instead of a threefold distinction of types of truth. In addition to merely verbal statements which, as tautologies, are uninstructive and need no support beyond the rules of language, and in addition to instructive statements which need support and certification, either from experience or by reasoning, there is a third class of statements which are non-tautological or instructive, on the one hand, and are also indemonstrable or self-evidently true, on the other. These are the statements that Euclid called "common notions," that Aristotle called "axioms" or "first principles," and that mediaeval thinkers called "propositions per se nota." One example will suffice to make this clear -- the axiom or selfevident truth that a finite whole is greater than any of its parts. This proposition states our understanding of the relation between a finite whole and its parts. It is not a statement about the word "whole" or the word "part" but rather about our understanding of wholes and parts and their relation. All of the operative terms in the proposition are indefinable. We cannot express our understanding of a whole without reference to our understanding of its parts and our understanding that it is greater than any of its parts. We cannot express our understanding of parts without reference to our understanding of wholes and our understanding that a part is less than the whole of which it is a part. When our understanding of an object that is indefinable (e.g., a whole) involves our understanding of another object that is indefinable (e.g., a part), and of the relation between them, that understanding is expressed in a self-evident proposition which is not trifling, uninstructive, or analytic, in Locke's sense or Kant's, for no definitions are involved. Nor is it a synthetic a priori judgment in Kant's sense, even though it has incorrigible certitude; and it is certainly not synthetic a posteriori since, being intrinsically indemonstrable, it cannot be supported by statements offering empirical evidence or reasons. The contemporary denial that there are any indisputable statements which are not merely verbal or tautological, together with the contemporary assertion that all non-tautological statements require extrinsic support or certification and that none has incorrigible certitude, is therefore falsified by the existence of a third type of statement, exemplified by the axiom or self-evident truth that a finite whole is greater than any of its parts, or that a part is less than the finite whole to which it belongs. It could as readily be exemplified by the self-evident truth that the good is the desirable, or that the desirable is the good -- a statement that is known to be true entirely from an understanding of its terms, both of which are indefinables. One cannot say what the good is except by reference to desire, or what desire is except by reference to the good. The understanding of either involves the understanding of the other, and the understanding of both, each in relation to the other, is expressed in a proposition per se nota, i.e., self-evident or known to be true as soon as its terms are understood. Such propositions are neither analytic nor synthetic in the modern sense of that dichotomy; for the predicate is neither contained in the definition of the subject, nor does it lie entirely outside the meaning of the subject. Axioms or self-evident truths are, furthermore, truths about objects understood, objects that can have instantiation in reality, and so they are not merely verbal. They are not a priori because they are based on experience, as all our knowledge and understanding is; yet they are not empirical or a posteriori in the sense that they can be falsified by experience or require empirical investigation for their confirmation. The little error in the beginning, which consists in a non-exhaustive dichotomy mistakenly regarded as exhaustive, is corrected when we substitute for it a trichotomy that distinguishes (i) merely verbal tautologies, (ii) statements of fact that require empirical support and can be empirically falsified, (iii) axiomatic statements, expressing indemonstrable truths of understanding which, while based upon experience, do not require empirical support and cannot be empirically falsified.[6] ______________________ It will of course be at once evident that Stephen's H is a simplified version of Adler's case study example. Also, that what is needed is not so much resort to the definitions game,a s sober, conceptual analysis in light of illustrative exemplars and potential counterexamples. Indeed, definitions -- and here I appeal to my moderate constructivist philosophy of education per Richard Skemp [by hook or by crook, get his Psychology of Learning Mathematics, and read, it's that important . . . ] -- are after the fact of such thinking through what we know (or think we know) based on our experience of our world as rational animals. For, definitions serve to clarify the borders of concepts, not to identify them. Our over-hasty resort to "definition," too, is a "little error in the beginning" of the analysis process. So, let us reflect a la Socrates [cf a few Socratic dialogues as reported (and doubtless massaged and adjusted) by Plato; they capture something of a method that modern approaches to doing phil miss because precisely of the gap Adler identifies . . . ] on a few fuzzy ideas and experiences, perhaps since toddler-hood, FIRST, then see how we can precise them up. GEM of TKI PS: You will see too that the Socratic dialogues encompass both the short and the longer remarks, in an integrated interactive whole, that works towards clarification: that is, short and sharp and longer more reflective remarks both have their legitimate place. I offer this as a model for further thinking through of what UD is trying to do.kairosfocus
March 3, 2009
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StephenB The trouble is statements A through I differ. A-B are straightforward matters of fact (assuming "we" refers to the human species). It is quite interesting how we know that A and B are true. C and D might be regarded as particular cases of more general rules: everything has a beginning everything has a cause I am not convinced that either general rule is true but I am sure the particular cases are true based on straightforward empirical knowledge about species. F-G are logical statements. H is pretty much meaningless without further definition. I think I is false. I guess you are trying to get at what Kant would have called synthetic a priori truths and Plantinga calls basic beliefs. The clearest candidates in your list are F and G. They are true. I am not convinced that we don't reason our way to them (although clearly we reason from them as well). It is just that they happen so early in our development we no more notice it than we notice learning to speak. I am very suspicious of any generalisations or deductions from the a priori synthetic. Too many great minds have been debating this for millenia without any consensus. This is truly what Wittgenstein meant when talked of philosophy being the bewitchment of the intelligence by language.Mark Frank
March 2, 2009
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p.p.s. To Mark Frank, I left out the most recent example, which raises its own questions.
167: I guess the thing that I find distinctive about moral judgements (and actually aesthetic ones as well) is that we operate with the assumption that if others understood all the things we understood then they would agree with us. It may be a false assumption ....
The problem isn't that it might be false. The problem is that it is never false -- for anyone's reactions -- provided we include the necessary qualification. If someone else could effectively become me, then sure, they are going to react like me, because I react the way I react.
... but it is the way we go about the business of making moral judgements ...
Now since you acknowledge that everyone's reactions are operating this way, it is inescapable that every judgment being made, every moral emotion or reaction, is being grounded in this same belief. Since you know this, it follows that "I have this belief" tells us zero about whether that reaction is distinctly supported. Every reaction is supported the same way. It provides no distinction whatsoever.
... and in practice it is usually sound.
It is never sound. It provides no discriminating information at all. Every position makes the same claim, which by the way can never be disproved since there is always the escape that "you just don't understand / see it the way I do".
My supervisor called it suspended subjectivity. Another way of describing it might be taking an objective attitude to what is actually a subjective issue (which is not the same as being under the illusion it is objective when it isn’t).
I might call it the practice of taking a hypothetical vote from a hypothetical body of voters who "saw it the way I do". How hard is it to guess the outcome of such a vote (regardless of what position you are taking)? So, I'm having a hard time coming to a clear conclusion about whether you really believe this is informative, or are free of illusions and realize that it is equally uninformative, since everyone can get a result that confirms the view they began with, whatever that was.
ericB
March 2, 2009
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----Mark: "It depends.(Do you believe in objective truth?) Some statements are about objective things and if they are true they are objectively true. Other statements are expressions of matters of opinion. Other statements it is meaningless to talk about truth or falsity. For example, “I promise to meet you tomorrow”. Mark, let's take a closer look at what objective truth really is. Here are a few examples: [A] We exist, [B] We are aware of our existence, [C] Our existence had a beginning, [D] Something caused us to come into being, [E] Something cannot come from nothing, [F] A thing cannot be true and false at the same time, [G] A thing cannot be and not be at the same time, [H] The whole is always greater than any one of the parts. [I] Either the Universe was caused or else it always existed. There are many more examples, but we need not go into them now. The point is, we don’t reason our way to these things, we reason our way from them. They cannot be proven because they are the logical raw materials by which we prove things. Given this clarification, do you believe in objective truth?StephenB
March 2, 2009
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To Mark Frank, Suppose that someone were asked why they bought the brand of table salt they did (rather than others he may detest), and the response was "Ah, my choice is supported by the fact that this table salt contains sodium chloride." But then it is observed that table salt is sodium chloride and that the very same claim could have been made for every brand on the store shelf. The obvious question then becomes "What is the point of drawing special attention to this kind of "support" that does not distinguish between the choices?" At least a couple possible answers immediately come to mind. 1. The person honestly did not realize that all brands contain sodium chloride. He has been operating under the false belief that his preferred brand was somehow special in that regard. In this case, the person's thinking is not well informed, or may be confused or possibly incoherent. 2. The person fully realizes that all of the brands are sodium chloride, but chooses to omit this relevant fact about the other brands as a means to create the (false) impression that his decision has a kind of support that the other choices do not have. In this case, one wonders why there would be a need to create an illusion of having special support for one's choice. One possibility: Perhaps the person is not entirely comfortable about the fact that brands he subjectively reacts strongly against are in fact just as supported by this justification as his preferred brand is. 3. Something else I haven't thought of. So, I want to ask you, why did you repeatedly bring in the idea that your moral reactions are "grounded in" (116) or "underpinned by" (129) or "supported by" (163) belief in the agreement of most others, with the explicit or implicit qualifier "if they saw it the way I do" (e.g. 158), etc.? I fear that I have spent a lot of time laboring under what now seems a misunderstanding of your position. If it weren't for your recent reply to StephenB in 158, I might still think that you were seriously trying to suggest that your own reactions have some kind of special support in this regard that other competing reactions you disagree with do not also have. And yet, if you realize this is not true and if that is not what you are claiming, why bring in something that is superfluous, since it does not distinguish support for one reaction over others? What would be the point of encouraging an empty impression of support for just one type of reaction?
116: And when I say “this is wrong” I am not describing my feelings. I am expressing my reaction to what he is doing grounded in the belief that the vast majority of people would agree with me – or would agree with me if they knew what I knew. [Film analogy:] This is more than a report of my feelings. I am saying something about the film. But my statement is grounded in my belief about how others would react to that film ...[implicitly: if they shared my new insight] 129: I do think things are good and bad. When I do it I am expressing my personal attitude to that thing underpinned by my belief that others will see it the same way. 158: My justification is that there are things I that I find strongly motivating and I believe others would if they saw it the way I do. 163: When I say someone ought not to do something I am expressing my reaction (but supported by the knowledge that the vast majority of others would agree).
p.s. Thanks for the clarifications. FYI, I am simply using "conditioning" etc. in a very broad and inclusive sense that incorporates many different kinds of influences under a collective term.ericB
March 2, 2009
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Re #169 Do you believe that truth is objective? It depends. Some statements are about objective things and if they are true they are objectively true. Other statements are expressions of matters of opinion. Other statements it is meaningless to talk about truth or falsity. For example, "I promise to meet you tomorrow".Mark Frank
March 2, 2009
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----Mark: "Where did I say anything about truth being subjective?" Do you believe that truth is objective?StephenB
March 2, 2009
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Re #166 StephenB You are committed to the view that both truth and morality are subjective. Where did I say anything about truth being subjective?Mark Frank
March 2, 2009
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EricB OK. I need to clarify some things. Moral judgements (like any other type of opinion) can be formed and changed through a number of different processes - genes, upbringing, pavlovian conditioning, debate, brain surgery, life-changing experiences, religious belief are some of them. I guess the thing that I find distinctive about moral judgements (and actually aesthetic ones as well) is that we operate with the assumption that if others understood all the things we understood then they would agree with us. It may be a false assumption but it is the way we go about the business of making moral judgements and in practice it is usually sound. My supervisor called it suspended subjectivity. Another way of describing it might be taking an objective attitude to what is actually a subjective issue (which is not the same as being under the illusion it is objective when it isn't). I didn't say your view was better than mine. I said are you "better off" then me. I meant better off in terms of being able to judge the rights and wrongs of the caste system. I refer back to my opinions and arguments which are different from theirs. You refer back to your moral code which is different from theirs. It seems to me that an objective morality on which there is widespread disagreement and no agreed method of discovering what it mandates, is of little use. One way to think of this - is that in practice you and I would go about debating a moral issue in much the same way. We would use the similar types of arguments and I doubt they would include many references to moral law! Which is the more convincing argument? * Imagine what it would be like if if you were 90 years old and someone stole all the money you had. * The Bible says do unto others as you would do unto yourself.Mark Frank
March 2, 2009
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----Mark: “But in the end I recognise I have no way of proving I am right and they are wrong. That is what it means to have a subjective view of morality. It is not incoherent.” You are committed to the view that both truth and morality are subjective. That means that all views about truth and morality are equally valid. Yet, you have been arguing against my position, saying that I am wrong about the natural moral law, its objectivity, and the fact that we can apprehend it. To be consistent, you must say that we are both right. Why, then, do you say that I am wrong? The obvious answer is that your position is incoherent because it refutes itself. This is not the first time I have raised the point, and it is not the first time that you have left it untouched.StephenB
March 2, 2009
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To Mark Frank, having thought more about your answer to StephenB, especially about the changed wording of your conditional (“if they saw it the way I do”), I think I am seeing now that my original impression was a misunderstanding on my part. I had thought you were trying to say something else before. Please correct me if I am mistaken, but it seems to me now that your "subjective view of morality" is simply stating that your reactions for and against behaviors are conditioned responses (combinations of nature and nurture), not unlike Pavlov's dogs learning to salivate at the sound of a bell. I notice that in your most recent response 163, you did not include any form of your conditional.
I am expressing my reaction (but supported by the knowledge that the vast majority of others would agree).
But if we were to fill in the implied conditional, it appears to be essentially this: they would agree (i.e. have the same reaction as you are having) if they had had the same conditioning that you have had. This fits with your earlier response when I asked you what you thought about the possibility of "an alternate solution" to the discrepancy between your moral views and those that differ.
[ericB:] Something could be done by you or to you to remove those particular emotions. Whether by scalpel, or drugs, or reeducation, you might be adjusted to where you don’t find the same things repugnant. That would also solve the discrepancy. Now, would it be objectively wrong for someone to do that to you? Even if you afterward approved and felt fine about it? [MF:]I would find it repugnant now. I would no longer find it repugnant then. I would resist it happening now and try to persuade others not to do it. I would stop doing it after the operation. End of story.
When you now doubt that you would change your views if you moved to India, that seems to be a statement about the resilience / resistance to change of the conditioning you have already had. But I suspect that if we supposed instead that you had grown up as an Indian, you would of course expect that you would most likely share the dominant view. This all fits with the subjective view of morality, but it essentially destroys the significance of the claim that I had previously thought you were making. You seemed to be claiming that your reactions were supported "by the knowledge that the vast majority of others would agree" if ... But now that the conditional appears to be something like "if they had the same conditioning that I have had" that makes the claim of "support" completely empty. Every position could make exactly the same claim. Pick any position, any reaction. In this view, of course we might expect the vast majority -- even everyone -- would agree that view, given the same conditioning. But "support" that can support any position actually supports none. It turns out, there is no real support here at all. Now I see more clearly why I expect it would be difficult to engage my questions above about perspective, or to directly address the questions about "competing preferences". It would lay bare the fact that, given your conditional, your "support" could be attached to any reaction that people have. And indeed, people always do feel that everyone else would agree with one's one reaction (if you could see it as I see it). But in our more honest moments, wouldn't we have to acknowledge that those who disagree or oppose us could make exactly the same claim? Now if I am missing something vital, please set me right. But as it seems now, you don't seem to be actually claiming anything more for your subjective morality than to say given my own conditioning up to this point, I approve of what I approve and I disapprove of what I disapprove. And you would too if you were me. End of story. So is this "a perfectly logical and coherent belief"? If you stop at what I just said and speak it plainly, there need not be anything internally inconsistent about it. But Darwinian materialists typically are not willing to be so plain speaking. Instead they make noises that sound, for example, as if it meant something significant to say that Darwin didn't necessarily like what his theory predicts. Or they make noises as if Darwin had a "sacred" cause that was somehow supported by Darwinism (as though other views were not also equally supported). You asked a question about whether my view were "better" but I don't consider that to be the most important question. The key question is about which is true. If it is true that morality has objective reality, it is best to know that. If it is not true, then no position is "better" than any other, except in the trivial sense that everyone tends to define their own reaction as the right one. But if that is not what you are doing, I really would like to be corrected.ericB
March 2, 2009
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A quick footnote: re MF, 163: I have been saying right from the beginning that you cannot derive an “ought” from an “is”. Actually, in supporting StephenB and EricBH on th e issue of where ought gets its anchor, I cited Elizabeth Anscombe's answer to that, as cited by Arthur Holmes, in 130 above:
However we may define the good, however well we may calculate consequences, to whatever extent we may or may not desire certain consequences, none of this of itself implies any obligation of command. That something is or will be does not imply that we ought to seek it. We can never derive an “ought” from a premised “is” unless the ought is somehow already contained in the premise [Just as Stephen pointed out several times above] . . . . R. M. Hare . . . raises the same point. Most theories, he argues, simply fail to account for the ought that commands us [factual inadequacy, a key and in this case even vital worldview test]: subjectivism reduces imperatives to statements about subjective states, egoism and utilitarianism reduce them to statements about consequences, emotivism simply rejects them because they are not empirically verifiable, and determinism reduces them to causes rather than commands . . . . Elizabeth Anscombe’s point is well made. We have a problem introducing the ought into ethics unless, as she argues, we are morally obligated by law – not a socially imposed law, ultimately, but divine law . . . . This is precisely the problem with modern ethical theory in the West . . . it has lost the binding force of divine commandments . . . . If we admit that we all equally have the right to be treated as persons, then it follows that we have the duty to respect one another accordingly. Rights bring correlative duties: my rights . . . imply that you ought to respect these rights.[Ethics: Approaching Moral Decisions (Downers Grove, IL: 1984), pp. 70 – 72, 81. ]
So, let us catch that again: We can never derive an “ought” from a premised “is” unless the ought is somehow already contained in the premise . . . . We have a problem introducing the ought into ethics unless, as she argues, we are morally obligated by law – not a socially imposed law, ultimately, but divine law . . . In short, the issue is not that there is no way to get to an ought from an is, but that a certain now commonly held worldview, often "justified" in the name of science, is such as to exclude those ISes that do imply the OUGHTs. And so, we are well within our worldview rights to infer:
a --> If evolutionary materialism is true, then we are not morally obligated by any inherent ought. But, b --> we do find ourselves so obligated by our very nature as human beings. So, c --> we have excellent reason tracing to our minds and the morality that is on its face an inevitable part of mind, to infer that evolutionary materialism -- regardless of claimed "scientific" warrant, is false.
Moreover, scientific findings not only do not force us to infer to materialism [on the actual evidence we do have] but also, science is never capable of delivering a global conclusion that is any more than provisionally grounded on inference to best explanation. So, it seems that MF has at length given us an excellent reason to reject evolutionary materialism as unable to account for the credibly true fact of moral obligation. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
March 2, 2009
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There is an awful lot of comments above saying very similar things. So I will answer two examples and hope the answers can be extended to the others. 1. Concerning rape, you mentioned that “We have also evolved a sense of compassion.” However, that is not true of all. As I said If compassion is an evolved feature, we both know that it would be nonsense to insist that every member of a species “ought” to manifest every feature ever associated with that species. Some have compassion. Others do not. If those that do not have compassion do not act compassionately, how do we justifiably claim, “Well, they ought to.”? I submit that you could coherently claim to have reactions against rape (just as others have reaction for it), but you have no coherent basis within Darwinian materialism for saying those who do not share your reaction (e.g. the rapist) *ought* to have your reaction. You might prefer that, you might work toward that, but that doesn’t get you to “They ought to prefer what I prefer.” any more than you could claim that everyone ought to like the same food or that all finch beaks ought to be the same size and shape. If rape has been preserved by evolution, how does the Darwinian materialist coherently exclude its claim to as much evolved historic legitimacy as the compassion that you may feel? You seem to be confusing “logical/coherent” with “objective”. I have no objective basis for saying the rapist ought to have compassion. I have been saying right from the beginning that you cannot derive an “ought” from an “is”. That’s the whole point of my thesis. When I say someone ought not to do something I am expressing my reaction (but supported by the knowledge that the vast majority of others would agree). That is a perfectly logical and coherent belief. 2. Hindu culture has been steeped for many centuries in a caste system (”Etymology: Portuguese casta, literally, race, lineage” Merriam-Webster). Some people react strongly against how that treats people of the lower castes. However, if you were there and interfered, you might find yourself on the minority side of very hostile reactions against your minority view. Both perspectives have reactions of a moral nature. Within Darwinian materialism, can you coherently claim that some moral reactions are the right ones while others are the mistaken ones? Or do you have simply competing preferences, fueled by alternate reactions. In that environment I would indeed be in a society that has some quite significant different ideas about what is right from me. I believe that many Hindus in that society would, as they learned more about the world, change their minds. I think it most unlikely that I would change my mind. But in the end I recognise I have no way of proving I am right and they are wrong. That is what it means to have a subjective view of morality. It is not incoherent. It is just not objective. Societies have always varied in their moral beliefs from one time and place to another and there has never been a way of proving one right and the other wrong. I would also remind you I would still share a core of moral beliefs with the members of that society. If you doubt that, read a book such as "A Fine Balance" or "A Suitable Boy". Hindus base the caste system on their religious beliefs and their moral code. You base your principles on your religious beliefs and your moral code. Are you any better off than me?Mark Frank
March 1, 2009
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----allanius: "At least Darwin was honest about this stuff. There’s no room for “compassion” when it comes to evolution weeding out the weaker and less worthy races." To that well-formed point I would add only this: Although some Darwinists do, indeed, violate their own world view by claiming to feel compassion, I have never yet met one who is willing to extend that compassion to the unborn.StephenB
March 1, 2009
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s perfectly possible, at least in theory, to construct a warm & fuzzy moral code out of nothing and in the absence of God. The point is that it can never be anything more than a construct. Absent God, the construct of the compassionate Darwinist greybeard is no more “right” or “wrong” than Hitler’s. It’s just what he feels. Hey! Your pity and compassion are sapping the race and making it weak. That’s the way Nietzsche felt about it. So get over yourself, Mr. Lawgiver! And what could possibly be funnier than the notion of compassion “evolving”? Aren’t these the same advanced geniuses who wear us out with their condescending blather about the survival of the fittest? At least Darwin was honest about this stuff. There’s no room for “compassion” when it comes to evolution weeding out the weaker and less worthy races. But wait—wasn’t that the point of the post?allanius
March 1, 2009
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p.s. Mark Frank responded to StephenB's question:
What is your rational justification for holding it? Well I thought I had said that about a million times. My justification is that there are things I that I find strongly motivating and I believe others would if they saw it the way I do.
I noticed that although you have said other things that sound similar, you have actually changed your wording. The problem with the new wording is that to say "if they saw it the way I do" would be faulty reasoning, as it is begging the question. It is of course true that everyone in the world would agree with me "if they saw it the way I do". But just as clearly, this tells us nothing beyond "I see things the way I see things", which is not very interesting or revealing. If you go back to your earlier wording, it seemed that it made a claim that was not question begging, i.e. if others knew what you knew. If you are/were basing your claim on saying they need only access to the same facts of the events, that could a claim that is not question begging. However, that lands you back in the problem of supporting that claim, when in fact it depends on the perspective people take. Unless I missed it, so far you don't seem to have tackled the issue of perspective that I have asked about a few times.ericB
March 1, 2009
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