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Deaths From Global Famine Caused by Locking Down World’s Economy Could Dwarf Deaths Caused by Virus

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Even the mouthpiece of the progressive movement (CNN) is waking up to a reality that was always glaringly obvious.

In this story CNN reports on a new UN report:

The world is facing multiple famines of “biblical proportions” in just a matter of months, the UN has said, warning that the coronavirus pandemic will push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation . . .

“While dealing with a Covid-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic,” David Beasley told the UN’s security council. “There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of Covid-19 than from the virus itself.” . . .

When added to the 821 million people already chronically hungry, that scenario would push more than 1 billion people into dire situations. . . .

“These countries may face an excruciating trade-off between saving lives or livelihoods or, in a worst-case scenario, saving people from the coronavirus to have them die from hunger,” the report said. . . . we could be facing multiple famines of biblical proportions within a short few months.

For weeks we have been listening to the “let’s lock everyone down for 18 months crowd.” And when anyone pushes back they have responded with a smug air of moral superiority that they are on the side of life and anyone who disagrees with them is just a money-grubbing bastard.

As I have said before, the response to the virus has never been a discrete choice between saving lives and saving the economy. Burning the world’s economy has a price in lives. Now even the most liberal of liberals are starting to wake up to the fact that the choice has never been so simple. Lives will be lost no matter what we do. The terrible choice we must make is between which policy decision will result in the fewest lives lost.

And if even 20% of those additional 130 million people pushed to the brink of starvation actually go over the brink, the death toll would be 26 million, far more than even the most dire estimates of deaths from the virus.

Comments
@JVL you wouldn’t use C14 to date the Earth. The half life of C14 is 5,730 years. To date the Earth you’d want U->Pb ratios.Jim Thibodeau
April 25, 2020
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Sure, sure. You are saying we can’t be sure of the accepted story. I get that. Do you have an alternate narrative? Without another viable alternative then the accepted paradigm stays doesn’t it?
They definitely don’t understand this w/r/t evolution.Jim Thibodeau
April 25, 2020
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ET: What would prevent the accretion material from becoming molten? Lack of energy to make it so. Okay but . . . how did the accretion material arrive at the proto-earth? If it plunged into the gravity well then it would have a lot of kinetic energy. I'm just wondering how you scope all this out. And all I am saying is that to determine the age of the earth you need to know how it was formed. Obviously the material that made the earth had to be older than the earth, in any scenario. But was it all melted, homogenized and then recrystallized? Sure, sure. You are saying we can't be sure of the accepted story. I get that. Do you have an alternate narrative? Without another viable alternative then the accepted paradigm stays doesn't it? Now that more planets around distant stars have been discovered, we know that nature just doesn’t spit out systems like ours. If science only allows for so much luck, what good is a position that relies on it? I guess. I'm interested in your ideas of what could or did happen. And what about the carbon-14 dating technique? You did discuss that and I would really like to know your view. Sorry if I'm being insistent.JVL
April 25, 2020
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UprightBiPed: JVL, how ’bout you sit quiet until you are willing to answer questions, as you expect others to do. How about we let the people I am having a conversation with decide? Much like you requested earlier? Fair enough?JVL
April 25, 2020
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What would prevent the accretion material from becoming molten? Lack of energy to make it so. And all I am saying is that to determine the age of the earth you need to know how it was formed. Obviously the material that made the earth had to be older than the earth, in any scenario. But was it all melted, homogenized and then recrystallized? Now that more planets around distant stars have been discovered, we know that nature just doesn't spit out systems like ours. If science only allows for so much luck, what good is a position that relies on it?ET
April 25, 2020
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. JVL, how 'bout you sit quiet until you are willing to answer questions, as you expect others to do.Upright BiPed
April 25, 2020
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ET: Evolutionism is unguided evolution. And yes, denying ID is denying reality. That is easy to see as those people don’t have a viable scientific alternative to ID. All they can do is hide behind time. Okay, that's clear. Nope. The rad dating for the age of the earth depends on the untestable assumption that all accretion material became molten and then re-hardened. So you have no suggestion of how old the earth is? Do you think it's even a question worth pursuing? I don’t accept the science behind the billions of years. Okay. Make a case instead of going fishing. Or are you too afraid to do so? I'm trying to figure out what you think is reality if that's okay! If the accretion material that formed the earth did not become molten then all rad dating is measuring the age of said material and not the age of the earth. So, you think it's possible some of the material was not molten when it formed the earth less than 4.5 billion years ago? How did that happen then? Where did the material come from? Obviously a desk is not as old as the wood but, to get back to that question: do you think the use of properly calibrated carbon-14 dating is accurate, within certain limits of course.JVL
April 25, 2020
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If the accretion material that formed the earth did not become molten then all rad dating is measuring the age of said material and not the age of the earth. A desk is not as old as the wood it is made from.ET
April 25, 2020
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JVL:
So there are historical sciences that depend on making inferences from what we see now to make statements about what happened in the past. Yes?
They are all testable or not part of science. Evolutionism is unguided evolution. And yes, denying ID is denying reality. That is easy to see as those people don't have a viable scientific alternative to ID. All they can do is hide behind time.
So, you question all the radiometric dating techniques?
Nope. The rad dating for the age of the earth depends on the untestable assumption that all accretion material became molten and then re-hardened.
Do you accept continental drift over billions of years?
I don't accept the science behind the billions of years.
Let’s stick with some physics first: are the claims for dating techniques testable?
Make a case instead of going fishing. Or are you too afraid to do so?ET
April 25, 2020
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Kairosfocus: That is serious worldview level question begging dressed in a lab coat and baked into institutions, causing endless crooked yardstick problems. I'm just asking ET some questions to find out what he (?) thinks. I'm trying to NOT put words in his mouth our attack his views. If I cross the line of respect then you're welcome to call me on it.JVL
April 25, 2020
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ET: You have to be desperate, stupid or both to compare continental drift to biology. So there are historical sciences that depend on making inferences from what we see now to make statements about what happened in the past. Yes? If they accept evolutionism, then yes. You mean unguided evolutionary theory since you've said in the past ID is not anti-evolution. Yes? so, you think the evidence for intelligent design is so strong that people who do not accept it are denying reality? No one knows the age of the earth. You have to know how it was formed to do that. So yes, they are just making stuff up to prop up their untestable beliefs. I guess I spoke too soon! So, you question all the radiometric dating techniques? Why? Do you think the laws/rules of physics changed? Or . . . Do you accept continental drift over billions of years? But all that is moot as biology is nothing like physics or geology. Science mandates that the claims be testable. Unguided evolution doesn’t make testable claims. Let's stick with some physics first: are the claims for dating techniques testable? What about radiocarbon dating?JVL
April 25, 2020
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JVL, There is a real problem, one expressed in a 1971 TV interview by Jacques Monod:
[T]he scientific attitude implies what I call the postulate of objectivity—that is to say, the fundamental postulate that there is no plan, that there is no intention in the universe. Now, this is basically incompatible with virtually all the religious or metaphysical systems whatever, all of which try to show that there is some sort of harmony between man and the universe and that man is a product—predictable if not indispensable—of the evolution of the universe.— Jacques Monod [Quoted in John C. Hess, ‘French Nobel Biologist Says World Based On Chance’, New York Times (15 Mar 1971), p. 6. Cited in Herbert Marcuse, Counter-Revolution and Revolt (1972), p. 66.]
That is serious worldview level question begging dressed in a lab coat and baked into institutions, causing endless crooked yardstick problems. KFkairosfocus
April 25, 2020
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You have to be desperate, stupid or both to compare continental drift to biology.
You really think hundreds, thousands, even millions of working biologists and other scientists are afraid of reality?
If they accept evolutionism, then yes. No one knows the age of the earth. You have to know how it was formed to do that. So yes, they are just making stuff up to prop up their untestable beliefs. But all that is moot as biology is nothing like physics or geology. Science mandates that the claims be testable. Unguided evolution doesn't make testable claims.ET
April 25, 2020
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ET: Hiding behind time proves the concept is not scientific. You lose. Heck no one can demonstrate that prokaryotes can evolve in to something other than prokaryotes. An they have genetic engineering to help them along and still nothing. Since some natural processes (like continental drift) do take hundreds, thousands, millions of years then I don't see that point. Surely continental drift is scientific? Dendrochronology can track hundreds of years but that's scientific. Many of the radioactive dating techniques cover vast periods of time. Are you saying there are no historical scientific disciplines? When evos figure out how to test their claims the Nobel committee will take note, I am sure. Until then all you have is a bunch of liars pushing their lies because they are afraid of reality. You really think hundreds, thousands, even millions of working biologists and other scientists are afraid of reality? Geologists first established the age of the earth even though none of them were around to witness what they claimed happened. Are they just making things up? What for? If you look at the changes in physics, chemistry, biology and geology in the last couple of hundred years it's pretty clear that many, many new ideas have taken root and become accepted. Is that the sign of people who are afraid to change old ideas for new ones that better match reality?JVL
April 25, 2020
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Hiding behind time proves the concept is not scientific. Ed George:
Then much of physics, chemistry and geology is not science.
You have to do more than just say so.ET
April 25, 2020
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Hiding behind time proves the concept is not scientific.
Then much of physics, chemistry and geology is not science.Ed George
April 25, 2020
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Even the alleged best evidence for macroevolution is without an accompanying mechanism. Which is strange as mechanism determines pattern and said evidences are all about patterns. When evos figure out how to test their claims the Nobel committee will take note, I am sure. Until then all you have is a bunch of liars pushing their lies because they are afraid of reality.ET
April 25, 2020
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Hiding behind time proves the concept is not scientific. You lose. Heck no one can demonstrate that prokaryotes can evolve in to something other than prokaryotes. An they have genetic engineering to help them along and still nothing.ET
April 25, 2020
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The Crackpot Index:
40 points for claiming that when your theory is finally appreciated, present-day science will be seen for the sham it truly is. (30 more points for fantasizing about show trials in which scientists who mocked your theories will be forced to recant.)
Jim Thibodeau
April 25, 2020
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ET: I would judge that it failed because it wouldn’t produce a mind from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. Very simple, actually. You did say test and now we're talking about demonstrating something that might work but we'll go with that. If someone was able to justify and demonstrate a series of steps which plausibly fed into each other then . . . What I'm getting at is that IF the original process took thousands or millions of years then it's not realistic to ask someone to demonstrate the whole thing all at once. But they might be able to justify different stages. Is that still a fail?JVL
April 25, 2020
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I would judge that it failed because it wouldn't produce a mind from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. Very simple, actually.ET
April 25, 2020
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ET: As if JVL has asked any doctors or nurses if they accept that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. I didn't ask that question per say but I have asked about unguided evolutionary processes. And if someone said they could test it I would ask for a demonstration. Then point and laugh when it failed. How would you judge if it had failed is my question.JVL
April 25, 2020
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As if JVL has asked any doctors or nurses if they accept that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. :roll: And if someone said they could test it I would ask for a demonstration. Then point and laugh when it failed. And PhD's should be reasonable. If they don't understand that science mandates that claims be testable then they should be able to understand what that entails. If not then they don't deserve that PhD.ET
April 25, 2020
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Et: I don’t know of any doctors or nurses who accept the premise of mins arising from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. And I know for a fact that not one doctor or nurse can scientifically test such a thing. Ok, we have very different experiences then. If I was in charge I would make any PhD demonstrate how to scientifically test the claim that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes- if they can’t then they would have to denounce the premise or admit that they don’t understand science. Well, I can see that for a lot of scientific work how human minds arose isn't pertinent but I rather doubt you'd get far forcing PhD candidates to sign such a denouncement; they tend to be a rather stubborn bunch. But you did answer the question so thanks for that. Supposing someone said they could scientifically test the claim how would you evaluate that? How would you decide if they were right or wrong?JVL
April 25, 2020
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I don't know of any doctors or nurses who accept the premise of mins arising from the mindless via blind and mindless processes. And I know for a fact that not one doctor or nurse can scientifically test such a thing. If I was in charge I would make any PhD demonstrate how to scientifically test the claim that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes- if they can't then they would have to denounce the premise or admit that they don't understand science.ET
April 25, 2020
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BobRyan: Darwinists are not particularly bright people. They suspend science for magic. Just curios .. . . what scientific work have you done and published?JVL
April 25, 2020
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ET: Any physician who thinks that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes should be stripped of their medical license. You wouldn't have many doctors and nurses left if you did that. The same goes for any and all scientists who hold such an asinine belief. They should be stripped of their degrees and force to bag groceries or flip burgers. So, if you were in charge, would you make anyone sign a document accepting ID before they were granted their PhD in a science?JVL
April 25, 2020
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Any physician who thinks that minds arose from the mindless via blind and mindless processes should be stripped of their medical license. They are not fit to practice medicine. They are only fit to wear a dunce cap. The same goes for any and all scientists who hold such an asinine belief. They should be stripped of their degrees and force to bag groceries or flip burgers.ET
April 25, 2020
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Bo'H, AMHD, Sassenach (?sæs??næk; Scottish -næx) n (Peoples) sometimes Scot and Irish an English person or a Lowland Scot [C18: from Scottish Gaelic Sasunnach, Irish Sasanach, from Late Latin saxon?s Saxons] Where, of course, Darwin's reference to Saxons in his Descent of Man, is in this context. KFkairosfocus
April 25, 2020
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kf @ 15 - you might want to look up "Sassenach" in a dictionary. Yours, a true Englishman.Bob O'H
April 25, 2020
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