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Defining Design

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As this is my first OP, I thought it would be good to start with something really basic. And as I like explicit definitions in discussions, what could be better than discussing the definition of design in a place dedicated to the theory of Intelligent Design?

Designing a birdMaybe it is too basic to be interesting, but I  believe that is not the case. Indeed, an explicit definition of design is rarely discussed, even here, and when it is discussed it seems to be very controversial, not only with our opponents, but even among those who are in the field of ID.

I have tried many times to give my personal definition of design, in the course of different discussions here. I am offering it again in this post, with some further detail, hoping to encourage the discussion on this important issue. All comments are welcome, and alternative definitions will be appreciated.

One point, IMO, cannot be denied: there is no sense in debating theories about Intelligent Design and its inference, if we have no clear idea of what we mean with the word design.

After giving my definition of design, I will give some brief definitions of what a design system, and a non design system are, with some examples of the application of those concepts to our biological issues about OOL and the evolution of life.

 

My definition

Let’s start with a few premises. “Design” is a process, well described by the verb “to design”, a transitive verb which implies a subject and an object. So, our definition will have to clearly identify:

a) What a designer is

b) What a designed object is

c) What the design process is

Moreover, what we are looking for here is a definition, not an interpretation or an explanation. IOWs, we must remain in the field of description of facts, and avoid as much as possible theories or specific worldviews. The only purpose of our definition is to be able to correctly use our words in our theories, not to imply our theories. In particular, in ID theory we need to be clear about what design is, because our theory is about recognizing and inferring design. Therefore, our definition must be an empirical description, and nothing else.

Now, to understand well the scenario of what “design” means in common language, let’s look at some very broad definitions from the Internet. Just to be original, let’s start with Wikipedia:

Design is the creation of a plan or convention for the construction of an object or a system…

More formally design has been defined as follows.

(noun) a specification of an object, manifested by an agent, intended to accomplish goals, in a particular environment, using a set of primitive components, satisfying a set of requirements, subject to constraints;

(verb, transitive) to create a design, in an environment (where the designer operates)[2]

Another definition for design is a roadmap or a strategic approach for someone to achieve a unique expectation.”

Not bad, I would say!

Now, dictionary.com:

de·sign

verb (used with object)

1. to prepare the preliminary sketch or the plans for (a work to be executed), especially to plan the formand structure of: to design a new bridge.

2. to plan and fashion artistically or skillfully.

3. to intend for a definite purpose: a scholarship designed for foreign students.

4. to form or conceive in the mind; contrive; plan: The prisoner designed an intricate escape.

5. to assign in thought or intention; purpose: He designed to be a doctor.

(First five definitions. It goes on with others.)

And, finally, the Free Online Dictionary:

de·sign

v. de·signedde·sign·ingde·signs

v.tr.

1.

a. To conceive or fashion in the mind; invent: design a good excuse for not attending the conference.

b. To formulate a plan for; devise: designed a marketing strategy for the new product.

2. To plan out in systematic, usually graphic form: design a building; design a computer program.

3. To create or contrive for a particular purpose or effect: a game designed to appeal to all ages.

4. To have as a goal or purpose; intend.

5. To create or execute in an artistic or highly skilled manner.

 

So, these are important premises, because it is highly desirable that our definition be truly compatible with the common meaning of the word.

At this point, I will give my explicit definition:

Design is a process where a conscious agent subjectively represents in his own consciousness some form and then purposefully outputs that form, more or less efficiently, to some material object.

We call the process “design”. We call the conscious agent who subjectively represents the initial form “designer”. We call the material object, after the process has taken place, “designed object”.

It looks simple, doesn’it? Well, it is simple. And I believe that it satisfies all our right expectations.

The above image of a girl in the act of drawing is a very good illustration of that. The girl is the designer, the paper with the drawing of a bird is the designed object. The photo has captured the empirical process of design.

Obviously, we are assuming here that the girl has subjectively represented the bird in her  consciousness before designing it (is anyone objecting to that assumption?).

The following diagram sums up the main concepts in the definition.

 

Design

 

Now, just a few clarifications, to anticipate inevitable objections:

1) I imply no special theory of what consciousness is, and no particular worldview. The only thing required is the recognition that conscious agents exist, and that they have conscious, subjective representations.

2) No explicit inference about causality is necessary here. Although it seems quite reasonable that the represented form is, at least in part, the cause of the form in the designed object, that assumption is not really necessary. The important point is that the final form must arise in the subjective representation first, and then in the designed object.

3) Nothing is stated in the definition about complexity. The designed form can be simple or complex, functional or not. The important point is that it is represented, and that the designer has the purpose of outputting it.

4) Nothing is stated here about intelligence. That is to simplify this post. The problem of intelligence can be dealt with separately.

5) Nothing is implied here about free will. While free will is a natural integration of a design theory, it is not necessary to assume its existence to define design.

 

Design systems

We can define a system “a design system” if, given an initial state A (which can be designed or not designed, indifferently), the evolution of the system in time, starting form A and up to another state A1, includes one or more design processes.

Conversely, we can define a system “a non design system” if, given an initial state A (which can be designed or not designed, indifferently), the evolution of the system in time, starting form A and up to another state A1, does not include any design process.

To exemplify, let’s take the problem of OOL. Here, the initial state A could be our planet at the beginning of its existence, and A1 our planet at a time when life in a specific form we know, for example prokaryotes, already exists. So, in this case the problem is simply: can the transition from A to A1 be satisfactorily explained as a non design system, or is it best explained as a design system?

If, on the other hand, our problem is the evolution of life after OOL, then our initial state A will be our planet with its prokaryotic life only, and our final state A1 can be our planet as it is today, with all the life forms we know. Again, the problem is: can the transition from A to A1 be satisfactorily explained as a non design system, or is it best explained as a design system? If we express the problem in this way, the existence of prokaryotic life is no more part of what we have to explain, because the problem we are considering for the moment is only the transition from A to A1, and in A that kind of life is already present.

Well, that’s all for the moment.

 

Comments
gpuccio @57 and StephenB @58(+59): Well said. Well said.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Sal: Is the sentence you keep quoting from Dembski the only place where Bill defines what he means by design, or is it just in the context of juxtaposing chance and necessity against design for purposes of explaining how the explanatory filter works? Do we have any reason to think that Bill would not view "design" in the plain-English sense of the word, as has been outlined in the OP?Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Sal @ 56 quote-mines Dembski and sez Dembski's definition of design is alien to those outside of something. Really Sal? Try this- Intelligent Design is Not Optimal designJoe
March 17, 2014
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Oh dear, I wrote this monstrosity: "To say that not all reality is (or may be) exempt from reason’s rules is self-contradictory and self-refuting. Designed universes or organisms require a designer just as surely as designed artifacts require a designer." Obviously, I meant the opposite. To say that any part of reality is (or may be) exempt from reason's rules is self contradictory and self refuting.StephenB
March 17, 2014
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Sal
#2 is based on the additional axiom “a design needs a designer”, and that is always true in regards to man-made, beaver-made, honey-bee made designs, etc.. For the design of the universe and life, we’re making an untested extrapolation with processes we have absolutely no access to (whereas we have access to man-made, beaver=made, honey-bee made designs). If you invoke that axiom, it is only fair to acknowledge there is a category difference from man-made design to the design of fine-tuning of the universe or OOL! Not even acknowledging this looks presumptuous and thus inspires a hint of distrust. I have found being circumspect and skeptical inspires a little more confidence.
I appreciate the fact that you raised this objection since it represents a common misconception. So, let’s break it down since there is a two-part answer: First, ask yourself why you said that a human (or animal) designer always requires a designer. You are right, of course, but think carefully about why you are right. It isn’t because of our experiences with human or animal designs or any related evidence. If it was based on those principles alone, you could only say that human designs probably require human designers. Yet you implied, rightly, that such a thing has never happened and cannot happen. The reason for this is that our apriori knowledge of cause and effect constitutes a non-negotiable rule for interpreting evidence and evaluating the facts of observation. It was this principle that you seemed to recognize, albeit without making explicit reference to it. The causal relationship between the design and the designer is unbreakable for the same reason that the relationship between all cause/effect relationships is unbreakable. Put another way, causes cannot give what they do not have to give. It doesn’t matter, for example, that we have never observed a brick wall appearing in front of a moving automobile for no reason. What matters is that it simply cannot happen—ever. If someone asked you to consider “evidence” to the contrary, you would (I hope) laugh them out of the room. You would say that it doesn’t matter what evidence they think they have: Effects do not occur without causes—ever. This law of causality, as well as the laws of non-contradiction and identity, applies to all of reality. It is not (nor could it be) limited to the natural world as we know it. Whatever is real is also not not real. Notice here the non-negotiable principle of identity and non-contradiction. To say that not all reality is (or may be) exempt from reason’s rules is self-contradictory and self-refuting. Designed universes or organisms require a designer just as surely as designed artifacts require a designer. If causes could give what they do not have to give, universes could pop into existence without a cause, immortal souls could emerge from matter, cement walls could appear without explanation, and elephants could materialize in your living room without notice. If you explain this to an atheist and he comes to be “distrustful” or accuses you of being “presumptuous,” the proper response is not to humor him but to educate him. If you can’t defend reason, then you can’t defend ID.StephenB
March 17, 2014
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Sal: Maybe we are saying similar things in different ways. I would say, too, that many designed things would not pass the explanatory filter. But that's not because they are not designed (according to any definition, even Dembski's), but because they are not complex enough. IOWs, they are designed, but their design cannot be inferred with safety because their complexity is low. I don't think that Dembski would argue that something designed is not designed because it would not pass the explanatory filter. The logic is different. What passes the explanatory filter is (almost certainly) designed. What does not pass the filter can be designed or not, but the inference of design cannot be safely made. If we simply define a priori design as "the negation of chance and law", we get to strange conclusions. For example, the observations that are the cause of "dark energy" theories, at present, cannot be explained neither as regularities nor as the product of chance. Would you say that that qualifies them as "designed"? No. The explanatory filter looks at things that have two different properties at the same time: a) They are specified (and I am convinced that functional specification works much better than any other definition of specification). b) They are complex. Those things are exactly the things that are always connected to a designing consciousness, because only a designing consciousness, capable of understanding and purpose, can assemble the necessary complexity towards a specific goal. So, it is not only the negation of chance and law that characterizes CSI / dFSCI, and therefore allows a design inference. It's the specification, the presence of a function, which requires complexity to be implemented. IOWs, while the complexity aspect excludes a chance/law generation of apparent functionality, it's the function itself that tells the story of understanding and purpose in the conscious designer. The function is the true mark of design. The complexity linked to that function allows the exclusion of possible apparent designs, apparent functions, which were never conceived or desired or implemented by a designer. Those pseudo designed objects do exist, but their functional complexity is always low.gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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the definition of design, I remain of the idea that it need explicit reference to a conscious being.
That is the definition closest to every day understanding. It refers to the process of a design. Bill Dembski's looks extremely alien to those outside the ID community:
Design is the negation of chance and law
That really is a description of a special property of a subset of things that are designed. Not all intentional designs will conform to Dembski's definition, in fact many designs might be rejected as the product of chance according to Dembski's definition. For example, Jack the Dripper's paintings are an example of design that might not pass the Explanatory Filter as a product of a thoughtful, purposeful conscious premeditation. :-)scordova
March 17, 2014
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And the "jump" isn't so much a jump. It is the perfectly ordinary, reasonable, logical next step. Far more reasonable, to be sure, than the arbitrary, unsupported, illogical assertion that humans are the only potential designers that can possibly exist or that we can only infer design when we are dealing with something that is known to be of human design. It is not even a close call. The first approach looks at the data and draws a reasonable inference. The second approach sticks the head in the sand and pretends that no inference can be drawn by putting up a series of rhetorical and philosophical roadblocks.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Sal: Your contributions are very stimulating. I agree with many of the things you say, but not all, and probably the best way to comment on what you say is to state a few points that have been inspired by your reflections: a) As to the main point, the definition of design, I remain of the idea that it need explicit reference to a conscious being. To call something a designed thing, its form must come from a conscious subjective representation. There is no other possible meaning that I can see for the word and the concept of design. b) Again, intelligence is another thing. I have tried to define design without referring to intelligence. I would like to debate the problem of intelligence in a future post. However, I admit that I have already introduce a cognitive clue in my diagram: the word "understanding", with its timid red arrow. However, I would like to say here that any conscious representation, at least in our human experience, seems to have some inherent cognitive aspect, as well as some aspect of feeling, in it. So, in a sense, design is always "intelligent", because it derives from a representation of the outer world, and a representation is always, in a way, a cognition. c) However, intelligence and complexity are different. Design can be simple or complex, but it is design just the same. However, only complex design id detectable indirectly, by the design inference. d) You speak of "resemblance" of design. that is an important point. We must remember that the design inference is an "inference by analogy". It does not "prove" logically that the object is designed. But it shows that design is the best explanation for it. That is not a problem, because all empirical knowledge is based on inference. And the design inference is based on a very powerful analogy (the constant association of CSI with design in human artifacts, the absolute absence of CSI in all non designed objects). e) It is true, as you say, that from the characterization of CSI / dFSCI in human artifacts to the inference of a conscious designer for biological information there is a jump. That jump is exactly the "inference by analogy". It is true that none of us thinks that human generated biological information on our planet. And yet humans are the only designers that we can directly observe. But the jump is not so great as we could think. Design is characterized by the conscious representation of form before its implementation in the outer object. In some way, that component is associated to an outcome (CSI / dFSCI) which cannot be generated in any other way in the whole universe we know. It is rather easy to make models which can partly explain why conscious representations can help in obtaining that result (through intelligent understanding of models of reality and of their meaning, through the experience of desire and therefore of function, through free will). IOWs, not only CSI / dFSCI is always associated with conscious representations, but we can also try to understand why that happens. So, unless one wants to keep a strict prejudice that only humans can be conscious beings, there is no reason to restrict the possibility of design to humans. And if we find a whole set of objects (biological objects) which has the same properties of designed things, which is the only other kind of objects in the universe which shares those properties with designed things, then the "jump" of the design inference is perfectly justified. Well, some may choose, in their free cognitive will, not to do that jump. That's fine for me. But they should be honest enough to admit: 1) That there is a property, CSI / dFSCI, which can be observed only in objects designed by humans and in biological objects. 2) That they have no explanation for the presence of that property in biological objects, if they want to exclude a priori the possibility of a design process started by a conscious being, like it happens in human design. 3) That they prefer, for their own private reasons, to remain without any explanation for one of the most important observation in nature, rather than accepting even for a single moment a very natural explanation based on a very strong, very compelling inference by analogy, perfectly similar to the inferences on which we have built our whole scientific knowledge. If they want to think that way, I have no problems. After all, I believe in free will, and I respect its outcomes.gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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Eric: I am italian :)gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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Sal to gpuccio: "Your English is very good!" Is this true? Gpuccio is not a native English speaker? I have to say I'm pretty amazed. I've got quite a bit of experience with a couple of other languages, but I'm not sure I could pull off a detailed, well-crafted series of comments (including the present OP) in another language. Hats off to gpuccio if you're pulling off this feat in a second language! I know there are other commenters here as well who are writing in a second language. Kudos to all for the extra skill and effort required and for your willingness to participate here in English.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Joe @46: "Evolutionists don’t care about your reasoning." Then they are wrong, at least on this point. That's OK. I don't expect to be able to convince anyone who has adopted an a priori barrier against basic logic in order to service their philosophical commitment. But, occasionally, there is a sincere onlooker who is genuinely interested in the facts and who just needs to know that the ID position is based on simple, observable, objective reasoning, while at the same time some of the materialist objections are nothing but obscuring rhetoric.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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seventrees: Eric has wonderfully answered your question. I can only add that usually there is a "tradeoff" between sensitivity and specificity, and when you categorize a continuous variable as binary, the choice of the cutoff determines whether one or the other will be privileged. In ID, for obvious methodological reasons, we privilege in a very extreme way specificity, therefore sensitivity suffers. That is done by choosing extreme thresholds of complexity as cutoffs to affirm the presence or absence of complex functional information, and therefore to make the inference or not.gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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The thing is that that painting could also be explained as an accident, unless someone shows proof it was deliberate. Isn’t the design inference to distinguish between these two examples?
The design inference (Bill Dembski's) will NOT distinguish between an accidental spill and a deliberate one. I don't think there is any procedure on the planet that can. As far as spills and paintings, look at this famous painting using a random spilling method: This random "design" using spilled paint is valued at $140,000,000 Jackson Polluck #5 it was done by Jack the Dripper.scordova
March 17, 2014
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Eric, thank you very much for your comment at 44. I was thinking the same thing. It is just that I wanted to make sure my conclusions were correct. The terminologies confused me a bit. Gpuccio, thank you once more.seventrees
March 17, 2014
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There are two claims: 1. an artifact not the product of chance and law, or alternatively resembles a design or conforms to structural properties of a design 2. such an artifact can ONLY be the product of intelligence I would prefer to say claim #1 is the lesser clean, and #2 is the greater claim. From a mathematical standpoint, claims that invoke the more generally accepted axioms and claims that invoke fewer axioms would be considered stronger (in the sense of immutability). The lesser claim is the unassailable claim. #2 is based on the additional axiom "a design needs a designer", and that is always true in regards to man-made, beaver-made, honey-bee made designs, etc.. For the design of the universe and life, we're making an untested extrapolation with processes we have absolutely no access to (whereas we have access to man-made, beaver=made, honey-bee made designs). If you invoke that axiom, it is only fair to acknowledge there is a category difference from man-made design to the design of fine-tuning of the universe or OOL! Not even acknowledging this looks presumptuous and thus inspires a hint of distrust. I have found being circumspect and skeptical inspires a little more confidence. I should have added to my list among the non-ID proponents who were founding fathers of ID -- Hubert Yockey, Marcel Shutzenberger (and maybe a lot of those at the infamous Wistar conferences). As I have said, the way to promote #2 is with Pascal's wager instead of claims of unassailability. If you think I'm being anal, how about we recast this question that we posed to Nick Matzke A statistics question for Nick Matzke into "A philosophical question for Nick Matzke"
Nick, if you found 500 fair coins lying on a table, would you say it was the product of an intelligent designer?
I actually don't know what the outcome would be, but maybe it would be worth asking Darwinists what they think and see how quickly an ID proponent can slam the Darwinist to the mat. Do you think it would be the sort of exchange that we'll be delighted to keep reference like the classic one: A statistics question for Nick Matzke or Law of Large Numbers vs. Keiths? Of course, there is one way to find out, but I predict it even if the ID proponents emerge victorious it won't be quite the rout of arguing the lesser claim. The way I dealt with #2 is illustrated here: If Darwinism were true, what is there to gain. It is implicitly a Pascal's-wager type argument. Those who disagree with this approach are certainly encourage to try debating the claim "OOL needs an intelligent designer", I prefer to say, "God did it as an explanation for OOL is the superior wager".scordova
March 17, 2014
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Eric @ 43- Evolutionists don't care about your reasoning. To them it's OK to leave to design to cognitive living beings and designoid to mother nature. The Dawkins haz spoken of such things.Joe
March 17, 2014
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Jaceli123 and gpuccio @27: The other important thing to keep in mind with respect to design in the cosmos and design in biology is that the latter does not follow from the former. In other words, even if the universe, the solar system, and the Earth were designed, that would not by itself lead to the existence of life or the design we see in biology. Indeed, the very attempt to understand the origin of life, the origin of biological novelty and the origin and diversity of the living systems we see around us, is done in the context of the universe as it exists. In other words, the existence of our universe, the galaxy, the solar system, the Earth, the laws of chemistry and physics that we observe, are assumed background knowledge for pursuing the question of biological origins. This is one of the ironic things about the multiverse theory being proposed to help explain our existence. Not only is there no real evidence for a multiverse, even if there were, it doesn't explain life or our existence. Even if there were a multiverse machine spitting out universes until one came along with just the right characteristics (our universe), we know that the laws and characteristics in our universe do not of themselves give rise to life. An additional creative act is required to get from the state of our universe to life. Thus, the question of design in biology can be pursued quite independently from the question of design in the cosmos. As far as biology is concerned, it doesn't matter whether the universe was carefully and lovingly constructed by a designer or whether it was spit out at random by a universe-generating process. Once our universe exists -- given our universe as it is -- we still have to explain the origin of life and living systems, based on the laws and characteristics of the universe as we know them. Some people may feel that there is strong evidence for design in the cosmos and that this points to another level of purpose and to the existence of a designer of the cosmos. That may or may not be the case, but either way it is important to remember that intelligent design can be pursued in biology completely independently of that aspect, and does not depend on it.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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seventrees @42:
What makes the procedure have low sensitivity?
The inference to design in intelligent design is set up to avoid false positives. That is the key. We don't ever want to be in a situation in which something is positively identified as designed when it isn't. We want to avoid simple knee-jerk reactions or gut feelings that have sometimes been used in the past -- to avoid attributing design to things like "canals" on Mars, or the "sculpture" of a face on Mars, or the Man in the Moon, and so on. As a result, ID requires much more than just "gee, that looks like something the could have been made by somebody." ID requires high complexity and specificity. Therefore, under ID, only those designed things that exhibit strong indicia of both complexity and specificity are affirmatively categorized as designed. However, we know from real world experience that plenty of things that are designed are neither particularly complex, nor do they have specificity. As a result, there are many things that are in fact designed that cannot be affirmatively categorized as "designed" under intelligent design theory. So the procedure has, to use gpuccio's phrase, low sensitivity, in that lots of things slip through the filter that are in fact designed. This includes two broad categories: (i) things that are designed but have either little complexity or specificity, and (ii) things that are designed to purposely appear undesigned. We give up the opportunity to identify everything that is designed in exchange for the much greater certainty that results from requiring the twin characteristics of complexity and specificity.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Joe @38:
Lest everyone forgets- Evolutionists say the bacterial flagellums were designed by blind and undirected physical and chemical processes.
Yes, this is a common rhetorical tactic employed by materialists in the face of evidence for design. Shermer was one of the primary ones to try this out in a debate and push the idea. In case it wasn't clear, I was referring to actual design, as understood by the plain ordinary English language definitions, like those cited by gpuccio above. I have no interest in someone's made-up, twisted version of the word that (i) is put forth just to try and derail the debate, and (ii) becomes meaningless and incoherent in itself by virtue of the fact that under such a definition everything is designed, and therefore such a definition teaches us nothing.Eric Anderson
March 17, 2014
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Thanks for your clarification, Gpuccio. One last thing (I wish): What makes the procedure have low sensitivity? Maybe this one just needs you to refer me to some source which might give me the fundamentals. Or to point out something in a comment of yours I have missed.seventrees
March 17, 2014
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seventrees: Just to be clear. a)Let's say that we do not know directly the origin of the painting (no revelations of the artist, no signature). So, we have to decide if we infer design or not for it. b) Let's say that we are not interested in explaining the canvas itself, or the setting, or other aspects, but only the form on the canvas (the painting). c) Let's say that we can in some way compute the functional complexity of that form (how it resembles something, for example). That is more difficult for analogic forms, and that's why I usually stick to digital information in my reasonings, but in principle it can be done. d) Let's say that we have decided a reasonable threshold of functional complexity for the system we are trying to explain. e) If the functional complexity we compute is higher than our threshold, we infer design. Otherwise, we don't infer design. f) From what you say of your example, I suppose we cannot infer design in that context. So, two things are possible: f1) The paintings was really designed (intentionally painted by a conscious artist). In this case, our "non inference" of design is a false negative (remember, the procedure has low sensitivity, therefore there are many false negatives among the results). f2) If, on the other hand, the painting is only the result of an accident, our "non inference" of design is a true negative. g) The important point is that our procedure, to be really valid, has to have high specificity (indeed, 100% specificity for our purposes). IOWs, there must be no false positives among the results. I hope that helps.gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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seventrees:
But natural events cans spill the paint on the canvas.
Only if all is preset by a designer, ie an intelligent agency.Joe
March 17, 2014
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Answer to Joe at 37: Detecting agency through the painting? True, nature doesn't do those things. But natural events cans spill the paint on the canvas. Gpuccio talked of conscious representation. As I remember, it is claimed that some people want to emulate random events. Sorry if the questions seem too much, but they are to make sure I understand the design inference.seventrees
March 17, 2014
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Eric Anderson:
I ask again: Can anyone give me an example of something that was designed where there is no designer?
Lest everyone forgets- Evolutionists say the bacterial flagellums were designed by blind and undirected physical and chemical processes.Joe
March 17, 2014
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seventrees:
Imagine a hypothetical situation that such a painting was discovered in the future and not in art gallery. How will one prove that this was designed if the designer of that painting gave no clues (like a signature or any other thing).
The best they could do is say some intelligent agency was involved. Nature doesn't make pait and it doesn't make canvas. So no, detecting actual design, which requires intention, may be impoissible. But detecting agency involvement would be OK.Joe
March 17, 2014
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Greetings. Joe at 20
seventrees, there are other methods than applications of alphabet soup to determine whether or not the paint blot was intentional or an accident. For one you could just ask the artist!
Joe, you are right. I actually made that clear in my question.
But the real question is why would anyone want to determine if it was an accident or not?
Imagine a hypothetical situation that such a painting was discovered in the future and not in art gallery. How will one prove that this was designed if the designer of that painting gave no clues (like a signature or any other thing). I want to make sure I understood the design inference flow chart correctly: To make sure it excludes such cases. But because Gpuccio talked of false negatives and low sensitivity, I was thinking he was talking of using dFSCI in such a case. So I wanted to know how this was possible with such a painting.seventrees
March 17, 2014
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KF: Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with you. As you know, I usually stick to digital functional information (dFSCI as a subset of CSI) because it is much easier to manage in empirical reasoning, and it is perfectly adequate for the most important biological contexts, being biological information as we understand it at present almost completely digital and functionally specified. But I have no doubts that the concepts are equally valid if applied to all kinds of specified information.gpuccio
March 17, 2014
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J123: Cf here. Youtube is not generally a good place to find sound information, sadly. KFkairosfocus
March 17, 2014
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GP: You will notice that for years I have focussed design detection through a somewhat more complex form of the EF, which addresses relevant aspects in turn.
as·pect (?s?p?kt) n. 1. A particular look or facial expression; mien: "He was serious of aspect but wholly undistinguished" (Louis Auchincloss). 2. Appearance to the eye, especially from a specific vantage point. 3. A way in which something can be viewed by the mind: looked at all aspects of the situation. See Synonyms at phase. 4. A position facing or commanding a given direction; exposure. 5. A side or surface facing in a particular direction: the ventral aspect of the body. 6. a. The configuration of the stars or planets in relation to one another. b. This configuration, thought by astrologers to influence human affairs. 7. Grammar A category of the verb designating primarily the relation of the action to the passage of time, especially in reference to completion, duration, or repetition. 8. Archaic An act of looking or gazing. [Middle English, from Latin aspectus, a view, from past participle of aspicere, to look at : ad-, ad- + specere, to look; see spek- in Indo-European roots.] as·pec?tu·al (?-sp?k?cho?o?-?l) adj. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Aspect is an important concept as in science we do not address everything about an object, entity etc, e.g. we do not usually discuss the colour of a pendulum bob or string in evaluating its period and how well the usual simple formula expresses its behaviour, or even more sophisticated ones. Once we see that we have aspects in view, we can then focus what is responsible per aspect and in that context see if there is simultaneous specificity and complexity in a relevant function, especially one using digital code, but also one reflecting information reducible to code through analysis of configuration in a space of possibilities. As you also know, the log reduction that emerged from VJT, Paul Giem and I looking at the Dembski 2005 metric as May tried to critique and dismiss it, is effectively the same as the per aspect filter. KFkairosfocus
March 17, 2014
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