Denton’s prior fitness argument: Everything seems to have come together to produce humans

"clearly a lot of people disagree with you" Appeal to authority doesn't resolve any scientific question. Andrew asauber

JVL:

Anyway, clearly a lot of people disagree with you on those points which is why unguided evolution has such wide support amongst working scientists especially biologists.

What type of support? They can't formulate a scientific theory of evolution. They don't know what determines biological form. They don't have a mechanism capable of producing the diversity of life. They can't even tell us how to test the claim that blind and mindless processes did it! So, again, what type of support are they providing? ET

It is obvious, therefore, that the earth and the universe had the prior fitness to allow me to exist

But why did these circumstances exist? Why does such a seemingly impossible event exist? It is unlikely that they could have existed through happenstance. That is the issue. jerry

I exist. It is obvious, therefore, that the earth and the universe had the prior fitness to allow me to exist, and both my parents before me, and my four grandparents before and my eight grandparents before that. DeclanChandler

"Aren’t you claiming to have proven a negative?" JVL, Not at all. Is a snake capable of building a nicely-stained wooden dresser? Just wait long enough, right? "wide support amongst working scientists especially biologists." Ah, the old appeal to authority. Who cares? Andrew asauber

Asuaber: Ah, but Evolution has been shown to have limitations. It cant account for all the attributes we require. How can you 'show' that something which you didn't witness didn't happen? Aren't you claiming to have proven a negative? Anyway, clearly a lot of people disagree with you on those points which is why unguided evolution has such wide support amongst working scientists especially biologists. JVL

"Why couldn’t it have been the other way around? We’re here, well suited to this collection of environments because evolution favoured life forms which were better suited?" JVL, Ah, but Evolution has been shown to have limitations. It cant account for all the attributes we require. Which is why you resort to pushing the problems into Preferred Imaginary Narratives. Andrew asauber

Asuaber: it’s obvious the Earth (our niche environment) was specially made for us to live in or we wouldn’t be thriving here. Why couldn't it have been the other way around? We're here, well suited to this collection of environments because evolution favoured life forms which were better suited? JVL

I think people are suffering from the game/pretense of expectations or preconceptions being met/not met. Upon detached examination (see Michael Denton's new book), it's obvious the Earth (our niche environment) was specially made for us to live in or we wouldn't be thriving here. Either you are capable of recognizing and acknowledging design or you deny it exists. It's that simple. Andrew asauber

No one says the universe was designed just for us. Given an intelligently Designed universe I would expect more habitable and inhabited planets. And more beings capable of scientific discovery. ET

This world, even our small piece of it, is like a complicated 4 dimensional jigsaw puzzle.

One dimension is cosmology and the characteristics of elements and basic molecules and planet formation in addition to the four forces and cosmological constants. The second dimension is bio complexity. The third dimension is terrestrial characteristics or the unique characteristics of Earth and our solar system. This has been covered before in several places but Denton expands on it in ways I have not seen before. The fourth dimension is time as dimensions two and three develop over time to form the amazing now. Of course since this has a long way to go, it is not clear what time will do with the other three dimensions.

https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/michael-dentons-new-book-nature-is-fine-tuned-for-human-existence/#comment-754794 jerry

The more we learn about the unimaginable scale of the bit of the Universe we can actually see, the more absurd it sounds to claim that it was all designed just for us. And that's quite apart from the fact that conditions in the vast majority of that Universe are lethal to human life. I don't think so. Seversky

"The Fitness of the Environment" was a key idea that got Michael Denton working on his 1986 masterpiece - and that influenced Behe for DBB in 1994. Awaiting The Miracle of Man - and only regretting that I used Amazon. But habit and convenience won out. Silver Asiatic

It sounds like Einsteins continued belief of God by studying the universe. BobRyan