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DNA doesn’t even tell teeth what they should look like

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More from the tortured world of gene-centricity.

Further to: How much does DNA influence cell shape (“In short, we don’t know how even these single cells get their shape, and it doesn’t seem to be as simple as “from their DNA, moron!”):

Come all you budding Darwinians, and you will hear the truth about how DNA rules, the selfish gene is the most important concept in science ever, and Darwin’s is the single greatest idea anyone ever had.

For our demonstration, we will use the humble tooth. A friend writes to mention a mouse experiment where developing tooth buds were moved so that the incisors and the molars were switched. The tooth buds became the tooth appropriate to the switched location, not the original one, in direct contrast to what we would expect from a gene’centric view. Apparently, developing tooth cells alter their transcription and development in response to signals from the gum tissue. He thinks this is also why human bicuspids (premolars) look weird. They are getting signals from both tissue locations.

File:Gray1003.png
bicuspids (premolars) in middle

Here is the conclusion from one article:

This study provides the first comprehensive analysis of differential gene expression between developing murine tooth types, leading to new insights into the regulatory mechanisms involved in the ontogenesis of mammalian teeth. Molecules belonging to pathways involved in various aspects of development (such as the Wnt, TGFß/BMP, or FGF pathways) were discovered as potentially carrying information for differential tooth morphogenesis. Of interest is the involvement of the retinoic acid pathway [76], as retinoids have marked effects on molar and incisor morphogenesis [22,77]. Tooth morphology and its evolution in various mammalian species were proven to be related to dosage effect of signaling molecules, like for instance FGF3 being able to modify the cusps pattern [16,78]. Our microarray analysis highlighted molecules more or less strongly expressed in a given tooth type, reinforcing the model of dosage modulating mechanisms. Gene dosage abnormalities are likely to occur in human rare diseases presenting with a tooth family specific dental phenotype [37,38,79]. Some of the corresponding genes were not retrieved in our analysis of differential gene expression in lower incisors versus lower or upper molars, suggesting that other levels of regulation, post-transcriptionally via effectors of a given pathway or via fine tuning of kinase signaling (e.g. ref. [80]), will undoubtedly also participate in the molecular identity leading to specific tooth morphology. Future investigation of differential gene expressions between upper and lower incisors, two similar tooth types formed from neural crest cells of different origins, might also contribute to shed light on specific morphogenesis and its link to individual tooth shape.

See also: Here and here. Thank to David A. DeWitt for citations.

See also: “If DNA really rules, why did THIS happen?”, where human neurons, transplanted into a mouse, had a mouse morphology.

Jonathan Wells: Far from being all-powerful, DNA does not wholly determine biological form (Mutate a fruit fly embryo in every possible way, and observe only three possible outcomes: a normal fruit fly, a defective fruit fly, or a dead fruit fly.)

Jonathan Wells: We are far from a good theoretical model of organisms’ development (We are far from having a complete list of the components, as a matter of fact.)

Note:  Mice don’t usually have bicuspids (premolars) between the incisors and molars but they may appear in mice as supernumerary (extra) teeth.

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Comments
where do these strawman expectations that initial conditions (DNA) + natural laws, determine cell shape or function.
Anything but a straw man. Meyer spends a couple chapters on these epigenetic codes which determine body plans. In order to get something new what must be changed is the information contained in the "initial conditions" of the cell that is extraneous to the DNA. This information may be just or more complex than the genome and science knows very little about this. These initial conditions produce the same body plan each time but with a different array of parts which give each organism, individuality. Hardly a straw man and just more complexity that has to be explained that somehow just shows up. Again I will repeat what the brain video said that I watched. 100 billion nerve cells emanating from a single cell and each knows exactly just where to go. Repeating the old joke about the thermos bottle that keeps hot things hot and cold things cold, "How does it know?"jerry
April 3, 2014
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“If DNA really rules, why did THIS happen?”, where human neurons, transplanted into a mouse, had a mouse morphology.
Because genes tell cells how to grow but they are regulated by the environment in which they find themselves which in turn alters how they are expressed.JacobyShaddix
April 3, 2014
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Nightlight, too bad you didn't think to mention these physical laws when people were toiling away making the basic biological discoveries; you could have got a Nobel.News
April 3, 2014
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Apparently, developing tooth cells alter their transcription and development in response to signals from the gum tissue.
It must be snowing in hell today. Creationists have realised something that scientists have known all along.JacobyShaddix
April 3, 2014
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Not sure why is this a major discovery or novelty of any sort, when mere a glance at any multicellular organisms with all its different cell, tissue and organ types produced from the single ancestor cell and its DNA. That little fact alone makes it perfectly obvious that DNA does not determine shape or function of a cell, or its further aggregations into tissues and organs. The final outcome, such as shape or function of cell, is always a result of interaction between DNA, cellular biochemistry and environment in which it develops. Making an ID argument out of such commonplace phenomenon is like marveling at the mystery about how come water comes in so many forms and shapes, yet it is all made of the same molecule H2O. Generally, natural laws, such as physics, plus initial state of a system, don't determine on their own the future behavior of a system. You need also boundary conditions to deduce the specific final result. If you use quantum theory laws, then even all three elements, the laws + initial conditions + boundary conditions, don't determine the outcome or behaviors, but merely determine probabilities of different outcomes. It still practically infinite number of possible, intrinsically unpredictable, outcomes for a large system such as cell (which is astronomically large in terms of number of elementary particles to which one applies quantum theory). So, I am not sure, where do these strawman expectations that initial conditions (DNA) + natural laws, determine cell shape or function. This whole series of recent UD posts on this theme reflects ignorance of the most basic science, such as how physical laws work.nightlight
April 3, 2014
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