Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Epistemology. It’s What You Know

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

BarryA’s definition of a philosopher:  A bearded guy in a tweed jacket and Birkenstocks who writes long books explaining how it is impossible to communicate through language without apparently realizing the irony of expressing that idea through, well, language. 

Seriously, I have read a lot of philosophy, and I find some of the philosophers’ ideas valuable (that is, when I can decipher them though the almost impenetrable thicket of jargon in which they are usually expressed).  In particular, epistemology (the theory of what we know and how we know it) is one of the most useful philosophical ideas for the ID – Darwinism debate.  Indeed, many of the discussions on this blog turn on questions of epistemology.  So I thought it would be helpful to give a brief overview of the subject in the ID context.  So here goes – 

Consider the following statement one often hears:  “We can be as certain that the diversity and complexity of living things arose by chance and necessity through blind watchmaker Darwinism (BWD) as we are that the earth orbits the sun.” 

To examine this statement, we must first understand what it means to “know” something, and this is where epistemology comes in.  The standard philosophical definition of knowledge is “justified true belief.”  Why not just “true belief”?  Because if we have no basis for our belief, the fact that our belief might in fact be true would be a mere coincidence.  We cannot, therefore, say we know something unless we have evidence to support our belief; in other words, the belief is justified. 

Keep in mind that our beliefs can never be justified in an absolute sense.  You have a justified belief that you are sitting at your computer reading this scintillating post.  Even though this belief is highly justified and almost certainly true, you cannot rule out that you are dreaming or that you are in the Matrix or that you have been deceived by one of Descartes’ demons.   

A corollary to the proposition that beliefs can never be absolutely justified is that justification is always relative.  Indeed, these are two ways of saying the same thing.  Thus, justification of our beliefs comes in degrees; some beliefs are more justified than others.  About some beliefs we can be all but certain they are true.  While there is some remote possibility you are in the Matrix and not actually reading this post, for all practical purposes we can discount the Matrix possibility and conclude that your belief is true.   

It is interesting to note that the Matrix idea is not new.  In the 1700’s George Berkeley (after whom the California city and university are named) proposed that an individual cannot know that an object “is.”  He can only know that he has a “perception” that there is an object.  In his “Life of Johnson” Boswell records Dr. Johnson’s response to Berkeley: 

“After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley’s ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal.  I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it – ‘I refute it thus.’” 

At one level Boswell was right and Johnson was wrong.  As a matter of pure logic, Berkeley’s ideas are irrefutable.  Berkeley would have replied that when Johnson kicked the stone, all he could be certain of was that he had a perception in his mind that he kicked a stone.  He could not be absolutely certain that he had in fact kicked a stone.  Nevertheless, Johnson’s main point is valid.  Our sensory experience of the outside world is all we have.  If we doubt that experience, we are left in a hopeless mire of doubt and skepticism.  Therefore, while we can never be certain that Berkeley was wrong, as a practical matter, in order to live our lives and make progress in science, we can safely ignore him.   

It is beyond the scope of this post to discuss philosophical hyper-skepticism in detail.  For my present purposes, I will note that even hyper-skeptics look both ways when they cross the street.  In other words, while hyper-skepticism may be interesting to discuss in the parlor on Sunday afternoon after lunch, it is perhaps the least practically helpful idea in all of philosophy.  For the scientific enterprise (and life generally) hyper-skepticism may be dismissed with a nod.   

In summary, therefore, we can trust our sense impressions to give us generally reliable information about the world upon which to base our scientific conclusions.  For my purposes here, “sense impressions” include both direct impressions on our senses and impressions from various measuring instruments such as telescopes and microscopes.  Moreover, science has a check against conclusions based upon erroneous sense impressions.  All scientific observations must be “inter-subjectively” testable.  In other words – as the scientists who announced they had achieved cold fusion a few years ago found to their dismay – scientific conclusions are not usually accepted until other scientists replicate the results in independent experiments.   

Having slain the dragon of hyper-skepticism (or at least banished him to his cave like the bad boy he is),  we move on to the practical business of scientific discovery.  This method is familiar to most of us.  In truncated summary the model is: 

1.  Think of a question that needs to be answered.  

2.  Formulate a hypothesis to answer the question.

3.  Test the hypothesis by experiment and/or observation. 

Here is where the concept of “fact” comes in.  In philosophy, a “fact” is a state of affairs described by a true proposition.  In science we say that a “fact” is an objective and verifiable observation.  I have a hammer in my office (I don’t know why, but I really do).  Just now I picked up the hammer, held it above the floor, and dropped it.  The following is a statement of fact.  “It is a fact that Barry’s hammer fell to the floor when he dropped it.”  In science we have a epistemic hierarchy:   

1.  Facts:  The raw objective and verifiable observations.  Of the correspondence between truth and proposition, this is where we have the most confidence.  Unless I’m in the Matrix (a possibility we have decided to ignore), it cannot reasonably be disputed that my hammer really did drop to the floor. 

2.  Hypothesis:  An explanation for a phenomenon that can be tested. 

3.  Theory:  A coherent model that gives a general explanation of observed data. 

About facts, we can be certain, but our conclusions based on those facts (our theories) are less certain.  In fact, some of our most cherished beliefs can turn out to be untrue even though they were highly justified and seemed to correspond to the data perfectly.   

Ptolemy’s cosmology is a perfect example.  Ptolemy, who lived from about 83 to 161 AD, was the greatest of the ancient astronomers.  It is a modern conceit that the ancients were quaint simpletons who thought we live in a cozy little universe.  It is true that the ancients did not know as much as we do, but they were not stupid.  For example, Ptolemy knew the universe is enormous.  In the “Almagest,” his famous work on astronomy, he wrote that the earth, in relation to the distance of the fixed stars, has no appreciable size and must be treated as a mathematical point.   

Not only did Ptolemy know that we live in an immense universe, he also knew that the celestial bodies behave in certain highly predictable ways.  On a certain night of the year Orion, for example, is always in the same place in the sky.  While the stars seemed to be fixed in place, the planets seemed to wander among them (“planet” means “wanderer”).  Ptolemy combined these observations with his belief that the earth was the center of the universe and developed a system, a theory, that predicted the movements of the celestial bodies with great accuracy.   

Briefly, in Ptolemaic cosmology “deferents” are large circles centered on the Earth.  “Epicycles” are small circles the centers of which move around the circumference of a deferent.  So the sun, the moon and the planets have their own epicycles, and each epicycle in turn moves along a deferent around the earth.  This system sounds very complex, and it was.  But it provided astonishingly accurate predictions of the movements of the celestial bodies.  In Ptolemy’s “Handy Tables,” one could find all the data needed to predict the positions of the sun, moon, planets and stars and also eclipses of the sun and moon. 

Ptolemy’s system was so good that it was the basis upon which celestial predictions were made for over a thousand years.  Copernicus first published his theories in 1543.  Forty years earlier, armed only with his knowledge of Ptolemy, Columbus was able to awe the Indians on present day Jamaica by predicting the lunar eclipse of February 29, 1504. 

Importantly, note that Ptolemy’s system has every attribute of a sound scientific theory, and if the scientific method had been around in his day, scientific experiments would have supported his theory.  For example, suppose Ptolemy was interested in accounting for the observed movement of Mars across the sky.  He could have used the steps of the scientific method as follows: 

1.  Question:  What accounts for the observations of Mars’ movements across the sky. 

2.  Hypothesis:  Mars orbits a certain epicycle which in turn moves around the circumference of a certain deferent. 

3.  Observation/test:  When we look at the sky and make numerous detailed observations of Mars’ position, we see that Mars’ motion though the sky is perfectly consistent with the posited epicycle and deferent. 

4.  Conclusion:  The hypothesis is not falsified. 

5.  Theory:  This non-falsified hypothesis is consistent with the general theory that all celestial bodies move along epicycles and deferents.   

Ptolemy’s cosmology was accepted for over 1,400 years.  It began to crumble only when later observations of the celestial bodies required more and more and more adjustments to the theory so that it became staggeringly complex.  Along comes Copernicus with a judgment based upon his religious sensibilities:  Surely God would not have designed such a clunky universe.  There has to be a more elegant answer.  And motivated by his essentially aesthetic judgment, he developed a heliocentric cosmology that gradually displaced Ptolemy.   

Yet another modern conceit is that scholars in Copernicus’ and Galileo’s day rejected heliocentric cosmology for dogmatic religious reasons even though the conclusion that Copernicus’ model was superior was intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.  This is simply not true.  Yes, religious considerations motivated opposition to Copernicus to a degree.  That cannot be denied.  Nevertheless, the conceit is false.  Sixteenth century scholars were not motivated SOLELY by religious considerations as the conceited modern would have it.  They had good SCIENTIFIC arguments to support their position.  These arguments turned out to be wrong, to be sure, but it is important to remember that they were not utterly unreasonable.   

Ptolemy was wrong, but he was not stupid.  His beliefs were justified in the sense that there was substantial evidence to support them.  He observed the celestial bodies move in certain ways; from his perspective the sun appeared to orbit the earth.  Even today we say the sun rises when we know it does no such thing.  Ptolemy’s fundamental assumption was that the earth is the center of the universe.  His assumption was not based upon dogmatic anthro-centrism.  He argued for his conclusion based on the data he observed.  Ptolemy believed that all bodies fall toward the center of the universe.  All falling objects are seen to drop toward the center of the earth.  Therefore, the earth must be the center of the universe. Ptolemy rejected the notion that earth rotates on the ground that objects thrown into the air fall back to the same place from which they were thrown, which would be impossible if the earth were rotating beneath them while they were in the air. 

But the most fundamental reason that scholars did not immediately roll over and accept Copernicus was the fact that, for all its clunkiness, Ptolemy’s system had for 1,400 years provided exceedingly accurate predictions about the movements of the celestial bodies.  They said, “The system we have accounts for the observed data exceedingly well and has done so for well over a millennium.  The burden is on you, Copernicus and Galileo, to show us why we should abandon it.”  Only in retrospect, with the advantage of 500 years of experience, do we look back on the scholars of Copernicus’ day with contempt.   

For our purposes it is important to note that for the most part, the “facts” Copernicus used to develop his theory were the same “facts” Ptolemy used to develop his.  Copernicus looked at the sky and saw the same movements of the celestial bodies Ptolemy saw.  But by the time of Copernicus there had been many additional observations, and Ptolemy had had to be tweaked again and again to account for these new observations, and Copernicus began to suspect that these tweakings were ad hoc, and perhaps the theory itself needed to be reexamined.  The death blow, of course, was Galileo’s observations – made possible by improvements in telescope technology – of the four largest moons of Jupiter.  If moons orbit around Jupiter, it is obvious that not everything orbits the earth as Ptolemy believed.   

Now what does all of this have to do with the statement under consideration:  “We can be as certain that the diversity and complexity of living things arose by chance and necessity through BWD as we are that the earth orbits the sun.” 

Once we understand basic principles of epistemology, we understand that this statement is obviously false.  Breaking the statement down we see that it combines three propositions:  (1) We know the diversity and complexity of living things arose by chance and necessity through BWD.  (2) We know the earth orbits the sun.  (3) Our knowledge of “facts” (1) and (2) is epistemically equal. 

But it takes no great perspicuity to see that statement (1) is at a wholly different epistemic level than statement (2).  Statement (2) is an objective and verifiable observation.  We have gone into space and actually observed the earth orbiting the sun.  Conversely, statement (1) has not been the subject of a direct, objective and verifiable observation.  No one has ever observed any living thing evolve into a different species.  Inescapable conclusion:  Statement (3) is false. 

Now all of this is not to say that I am certain that the diversity and complexity of living things did not arise by chance and necessity through BWD.  I am in fact not certain at all.  While I personally do not believe it, this proposition may be true.  My point is not to “disprove” Darwinism.  My point is that the debate will be much more robust if we all use proper epistemic categories.  The story of Ptolemy is a cautionary tale for those who would make statements like the one we discussed above.  There are obvious parallels between Ptolemy and Darwin. 

1.  Ptolemy was a brilliant astronomer who made countless highly detailed observations from which he developed a theory of cosmology.  Darwin was a brilliant biologist (despite the fact that he had no formal credentials in the discipline) who made countless highly detailed observations from which he developed a theory of evolution. 

2.  Ptolemy’s theory is based on a fundamental assumption:  the earth is the center of the universe around which all celestial bodies orbit.  Darwin’s theory is based upon a fundamental assumption:  chance and necessity are the only forces available to account for the diversity and complexity of life. 

3.  If Ptolemy’s fundamental assumption were correct, something like his cosmology is NECESSARILY true as a matter of logic.  If Darwin’s fundamental assumption were correct, something like his theory is NECESSARILY true as a matter of logic. 

4.  Given the information available to him, Ptolemy’s theory accounted for the data brilliantly.  Given the data available to Darwin (and indeed to all biologists through about 1950), his theory accounts for the data brilliantly.   

5.  New data was observed, and numerous ad hoc adjustments had to be made to Ptolemy’s theory.  New data arose (for example, it is now generally accepted that the fossil does not support gradualism in the way Darwin envisioned), and ad hoc adjustments to the theory have been made (e.g., punctuated equilibrium).   

6.  A new theory (heliocentrism) was proposed to compete with Ptolemy.  The new theory rejected Ptolemy’s central assumption, but Ptolemy’s defenders clung to the old theory in large part due to their metaphysical/philosophical/religious commitments and refused to give the new theory a fair evaluation.  A new theory has arisen (ID) to compete with Darwin.  The new theory rejects Darwins’s central assumption by positing that a third force (agency) may account for the data.  Darwin’s defenders cling to the old theory in large part due to their metaphysical/philosophical/religious commitments and refuse to give the new theory a fair evaluation  

7.  Ptolemy and Copernicus were attempting to develop a model that accounted for the same “facts,” i.e., the observed motions of the celestial bodies were the same for both camps.  Darwinists and ID theorists also must deal with the same “facts.”  For example, the fossil record is a fact.  Both camps have to deal with the same fossil record.  It is the interpretation of the facts, not the facts themselves that make the difference.   

8.  In the end, new technology made it possible for profound new data to be discovered that simply could not be accounted for in Ptolemy’s theory (Jupiter’s moons orbiting around that planet).  In recent years new data has been discovered (staggeringly and irreducibly complex nano-machines in the cell; extraordinarily complex specified information stored in the DNA molecule) that cannot be accounted for in Darwin’s model.  Consider:  Is the electronic microscope analogous to Galileo’s improved telescope? 

9.  Pope Urban VIII persecuted Galileo for his “heretical” ideas in opposition to Ptolemy.  High priests of an entrenched and hidebound secular orthodoxy persecute ID proponents for their “heretical” ideas in opposition to Darwinism and the philosophical materialism upon which it is based.  Consider:  Is Richard Dawkins analogous to Pope Urban VIII?  Are Dembski and Behe the new Copernicus and Galileo?   

This has been fun to write.  I hope my readers enjoy it and find it useful.

Comments
Hi Barry, Great post. While I generally agree with your view of philosophers and the stuff they write, I did chuckle audibly when I read a lawyer complaining about another discipline's "almost impenetrable thicket of jargon..." ;-) -sbSteveB
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
12:03 PM
12
12
03
PM
PDT
Materialism can be disproved transcendentally. For example: Logic is immaterial. The law of non-contradiction isn't under a rock or orbiting Jupiter. You can only argue against this position by using logic and other immaterial concepts.geoffrobinson
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
10:49 AM
10
10
49
AM
PDT
Some stuff to learn however, in the posts above occasionally, e.g. allanius, et. al. I don't have contempt, FWIW.JunkyardTornado
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
10:31 AM
10
10
31
AM
PDT
jjcasidy, You may think that “chance” is moderately well defined, but it’s not. I'm aware of these issues which chance, jj, and I think you've captured them well. I'm not relying on the concept of "chance" to explain anything, however. In these discussions, Monod's phrase "chance and necessity" should be taken to mean "the type of causality involved in every other phenomenon" - whatever that might be (causality of course isn't a very well-defined concept either). The main point being that we have no evidence for an ontologically distinct type of mental causality, much less indication that this res cogitans was responsible for creating life. Do you really want me to believe that this argument of yours was motivated by either “random” thoughts or by your inability to think otherwise? Is it controversial or suspect to “smuggle” into the conversation the idea of an argument that is not random or completely determined (although unspecifically determined, at that)? I have studied minds my entire adult life (and I'm pretty old). I do not pretend to understand how we think, and my primary issue with ID folks is that they do pretend that we know something about it. Kairosfocus, AIGUY: AI systems work according to chance and necessity (please don’t confuse this statement with statement about origins!) KAIROSFOCUS: As directed by intelligent agents, cf above and the always linked. And so you have made the error that I implored you not to make: You have confused the process by which people or computers reason with the origin of their reasoning abilities. You think that you were created by an intelligent agent, right? Does this mean that you can only act as "directed" by this intelligent agent, and that you are not intelligent in your own right?aiguy
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
10:08 AM
10
10
08
AM
PDT
Also, re: your last post above - as far as a computer choosing 10000 heads in a row, a computer is just a random number generator. Plz. read my last response to BarryA CORRECTION: Also, re: your last post above - as far as a computer choosing 10000 heads in a row, a computer is NOT I repeat NOT just a random number generator. Plz. read my last response to BarryA.JunkyardTornado
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:55 AM
9
09
55
AM
PDT
For me the relevance of the whole discussion of Epistomology, "how we know what we know", whether or not our senses are reliable, etc. ad nauseum, almost completely eludes me. My basic model ever since 10th grade geometry is reasoning from axioms. You start with basic foundational axioms which are presumed to be self evident and try to deduce everything else from that. There is no implication your axioms are definitely true or that they are known for an absolute fact to be true. You presume they are true. You presume the basic rules of inferential logic are true. You have as few axioms and assume as little as conceivably possible. Everything else must be proven through logic. What could be simpler. The problem for ID'ists is that they have as a basic foundational axiom that there is this thing which they label "intelligent agency" which they say is distinct from either chance or law. In other words they think it is self-evident and does not even need to be proven:
More broadly the decision faced once we see an apparent message, is first to decide its source across a trichotomy: (1) chance; (2) natural regularity rooted in mechanical necessity (or as Monod put it in his famous 1970 book, echoing Plato, simply: "necessity"); (3) intelligent agency. These are the three commonly observed causal forces/factors in our world of experience and observation. Each of these forces, clearly, stands at the same basic level as an explanation or cause...
(It is interesting that after the above assertion is made there immediately follows an abstruse utterly irrelevant discourse on epistimology.) (It is from this which kairosfocus just requested I read. Incidently kairos, why would this fifty page screed not have any author's name attached as if it were immutable truth handed down from on high or something. Oops. I guess you wrote it. If I'm not mistaken, there are several passages you've taken directly from Dembski unattributed. Also, re: your last post above - as far as a computer choosing 10000 heads in a row, a computer is just a random number generator. Plz. read my last response to BarryA. ) A specific thing has a specific description. You point this thing out and ask what is it? Say its an entity that operates in some environmment. I hand you a big long description specifying the known properties of this entity and how it operates in its environment. So you thank me because now you have a record of what this thing is. So what this entity does is determined by its environment and its own specific nature. If this entity is actually doing things not determined by its own specific nature (i.e. law) and the environment in which it exists, then this thing is behaving randomly. What is axiomatic to me is the above view of reality. So I cannot even comprehend what ID'ists mean by something that is not operating according to law, So how can they consider it axiomatic. Unfortunately that's the best I can to do this morning.JunkyardTornado
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:50 AM
9
09
50
AM
PDT
allanius writes: "But ID will fail if it attempts to supplant materialism by describing itself as a rival 'theory.' You have made a category error. ID does not and never has attempted to supplant materialism. Materialism is a metaphyscial proposition that can never be proved or disproved. ID is science and as such makes claims about the physical world subject to investigation and (in principle) falsification. Obviously, to the extent one believes as a matter of faith that the designer is supernatural, ID has metaphysical implications. But ID has not and does not posit that the designer is supernatural. Nevertheless, just as Darwinism's success made possible the follow-on success of materialism, ID's success would give great aid and comfort to theists. Strictly speaking, however, giving great aid and comfort to theists is not ID's purpose. It's purpose is much more modest -- to establish a model for explaining the observed data.BarryA
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:45 AM
9
09
45
AM
PDT
rockyr, I agree with everything you say too. I still maintain that trial, imprisonment, charges of heresy, house arrest and a ban on publication amount to persecution. The fact that Urban thought he was accomplishing a greater good does not impress me. He was wrong.BarryA
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:35 AM
9
09
35
AM
PDT
This war cannot be won. Epistemology, at least at the level of theory, is in thrall to identity. What we think reflects who we are and cannot do otherwise. Berkeley’s seeming “idealism” came about through his antipathy to Newton, whose synthetic geometry he found unappealing and unworthy of a transcendent God. Newton’s synthetic constructs of value, in turn, were a reaction to Descartes, whose notion of pure intellect struck him as being unrealistic and ephemeral. It is not necessary to speculate that their philosophies had these personal motivations; they themselves acknowledged it. From the beginning, philosophy was divided between those who had a strong longing for the possibility of transcendence and those who were more at home in their own skin and wanted to make transcendent values seem immanent in existence. This divide is a product of personality, and also of intellect itself and its qualitative force of resistance to divided values, which cannot be totalized without describing transcendent value as either pure negation or pure action. No one can cross this divide; it has never been possible and is not possible now. The only way to identify transcendent values through intellect is to assign transcendent value to intellect itself—to agree with Plato and Aristotle that intellect is the good. And every time this prideful equation is made, one’s notions of value immediately become divided, like the Tower of Babel, between the attempt to describe the good as pure intellect or as some kind of synthesis, for instance of intellectual and material causes. ID serves a useful purpose by casting doubt on the ironclad materialism of the age. It is valuable to the extent that it builds up faith and combats nothingness. But ID will fail if it attempts to supplant materialism by describing itself as a rival “theory.” At that point it immediately succumbs to the divide between immanence and transcendence inherent in intellect itself, as the posts on these pages demonstrate daily, and may ultimately lead to something worse than the thing it is trying to destroy.allanius
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:24 AM
9
09
24
AM
PDT
BarryA, I don't want to split hairs, but sometimes it is necessary, especially if we desire mutual understanding. There is a difference between discipline and systematic ideologically based persecution. Galileo presented himself as a good Catholic, and as such was subject to the Church discipline, even as specified by the Canon Law. Re 37: "Jerry, your history is entirely accurate, and I agree with everything you say. I still maintain that trial, imprisonment, charges of heresy, house arrest and a ban on publication amount to persecution." Neither the Church nor pope Urban were dead set against Copernicanism, against Galileo, or against science. Much more was at stake than just some scientific theory or theories. Galileo presented himself as a theologian and scripture scholar, he even used the title of theologian, for which he wasn't properly educated, and ventured to criticize the Church and its teaching authority in religious matters philosophically and theologically. By criticizing Aristotle, Galileo was in fact subverting the whole system of rationality on which the teaching authority of the Church, and arguably science, rested. Until this day the Magisterially preferred system of rationality is based on Aquinas' Aristotelianism. Others like Heidegger later tried a similar criticism or revamping of Aristotelianism, but without much success. To put it bluntly, Galileo acted not like a concerned scientists and believer, but like a proud stubborn pig-headed ass.rockyr
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
09:16 AM
9
09
16
AM
PDT
geoffrobinson, I grant that as a matter of pure logic, the statement is internally contradictory and thus ironic. I hope I made it clear in the post that I was operating at the practical level. At that level it is not. G.K. Chesterton (I paraphrase): "Insanity is not the absense of logic, but too much logic."BarryA
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
08:31 AM
8
08
31
AM
PDT
“Keep in mind that our beliefs can never be justified in an absolute sense.” I hope the irony of making an absolute statement like that is not lost.geoffrobinson
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
08:20 AM
8
08
20
AM
PDT
Homer: Look everyone, now that I'm a teacher I've sewn patches on my elbows. Marge: Homer that's supposed to be leather patches on a tweed jacket, not the other way around. You've ruined a perfectly good jacket. Homer: Correction, Marge. Two perfectly good jackets.Tedsenough
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
08:00 AM
8
08
00
AM
PDT
GEM, thanks for your comments. Yes, Columbus was an interesting man. He was a courageous visionary scoundral. Fearless explorer; feckless administrator.BarryA
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
07:00 AM
7
07
00
AM
PDT
I always use humility to argue against the nonsense assertions that there isn't anything but thoughts and everything is in my mind. While I have a good opinion about myself, I am not that smart that I came up with relativity, all of Plato's dialogues, the technology to run a cell, a city, fly a space shuttle, Shakespeare's plays, Michaelangelo's art, etc. To be that smart someone would be almost like a god. But then being this smart, I am not smart enough to realize that all I am is a thought and no one exists but myself and that aiguy is just my imagination.jerry
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
05:55 AM
5
05
55
AM
PDT
Hi Barry: Excellent post! You left off my favourite part on the Columbus in Xamayca -- how the Arawaks would have spelled their word for "Land of Wood and Water," also called by COlumbus "the fairest land that eyes have beheld . . . if only we had not so sadly spoiled it up in so many ways! -- story. Namely, how he used the prediction to get the Arawaks to feed him and his crew of quarrelsome Hidalgos and seamen for a full year while they tried to get off the island. [The Spanish authorities on Hispaniola were but little inclined to do something to help him out, after he had beached his worm-eaten ship on a north coast beach.] Key lesson: Science can be abused . . . I make a few little comments if you don't mind. 1] Knowledge, justification and belief Giventhe issue of Gettier counter-examples, as discussed here, it is probably wiser to speak of knowledge as being WARRANTED, true belief. Thence, we can go on to the point that we are indeed dealing with inherent provisionality in knowledge claims. Thus, we are open to the idea that this is the Matrix or -- going back much further -- Plato's manipulated cave of shadow-shows put on for the benefits of the denizens in stocks who didn't know better 'til one got away [whom they then set upon . . .] -- just, the burden of warrant lies on the one who would so claim. And, since the matrix-type assertion implies that in effect just about all our sense-data and concepts etc are suspect, then it is far more dubious than what it claims to challenge. Of course, most times, those who assert we live in a Matrix type world, have no basis for credible warrant,. So we may confidently assert tot hem that we will rely on the credibility of the senses and experiences we have in hand, and which the Matrix argument in the end both assumes and seeks to subvert, thank you. But, in those cases where there IS evidence that on a specific matter our experiences have been distorted and our currne texplanations are inferior, why, then we should be very open to revision of our provisionally warranted body of accepted knowledge. [Notice the subtleties in that phrasing.] 2] For a given effect, it was caused by either (a) chance and necessity, or (b)it was caused by an intelligent agent. Cause (a) is mutally exclusive of cause (b). To suggest otherwise is quite literally absurd. It is a simple matter of linguistics. When I say an effect was caused by chance and necessity, I mean it was not caused by an intelligent agent. Counsel, may I beg to adjust and slightly refine the argument in light of a little thought experiment in two phases? Namely:
PHASE I: A Tumbling Die: For instance, heavy objects tend to fall under the natural regularity we call gravity. If the object is a die, the face that ends up on the top from the set {1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6} is for practical purposes a matter of chance. But, if the die is cast as part of a game, the results are as much a product of agency as of natural regularity and chance. Indeed, the agents in question are taking advantage of natural regularities and chance to achieve their purposes! (This concrete, familiar illustration should suffice to show that the three causal factors approach is not at all arbitrary or dubious -- as some are tempted to imagine or assert.) PHASE II: a hypothetical, dice-based information system: If one were so inclined, s/he could define a six-state code and use a digital string of dice to store or communicate a message by setting each die in turn to the required functional value for communicating the message. In principle, we could then develop information-processing and communication systems that use dice as the data-storage and transmission elements; rather like the underlying two-state [binary] digital code-strings used for this web page. So also, since 6^193 ~ 10^150, if a functional code-string using dice requires significantly more than 193 to 386 six-state elements [we can conveniently round this up to 200 - 400], it would be beyond the edge of chance as can be specified by the Dembski universal probability bound, UPB. [That is, the probabilistic resources of the observed universe would be mostllikely fruitlessly exhausted if a random-walk search starting from an arbitrary initial point in the configuration space were to be tasked to find an "island" of functionality: not all "lotteries" are winnable (and those that are, are designed to be winnable but profitable for their owners). So, if we were to then see a code-bearing, functionally meaningful string of say 500 dice, it would be most reasonable to infer that this string was arranged by an agent, rather than to assume it came about because someone tossed a box of dice and got really lucky! (Actually, this count is rather conservative, because the specification of the code, algorithms and required executing machinery are further -- rather large -- increments of organised, purposeful complexity.)]
In short, the proper contrast is between:
[a] undirected chance + necessity ONLY, and [b] agency in action that can use the forces and materials of nature creatively and purposefully
The former, we cna identfy by its characteristics, e.g if heat + oxidiser + fuel then fire, reliably. Nautral regularities traceable to mechanical necessity do not produce highly contingent outcomes. Chance, -- ie, random conditions or processes such as the tumbling of a die reflects, do produce contingency, but in so doing end up in effect anywhere in a config space, conditioned by whatever further constraints of natural regularities may bias the outcomes from even chance of hitting any given cel of he space. But the key point is that the initial cell such a process hits on is essentially arbitrary, not as a rule close to interesting hills of functionality so that hill-climbing functionality increment-rewarding processes tracing to whatever source may then take over. So, once the config space passes the UPB, such processes are dynamically impotent on searching out such islands of functionality amidst the vastness of the sea of non-functional cells. By contrast, creative, purposeful agency is demonstrably able to come sufficiently close to such islands that incremental processes of improvement can be used to gain on desirable performance. If you have ever had to design and build a sufficiently complex hard or soft ware system you will know what I am getting at. Further, such a process typically leaves behind a clear, characteristic empirical trace, namely FSCI. That brings up . . . 3] Atom, 10: the statement “Only intelligent causes have been shown to produce complex, functionally integrated machinery (of the above mentioned type)” is true regardless of the underlying metaphysical reality. If intelligent agents turn out to be a subset of material agents, it is still the case that only intelligent material agents can produce the level of machinery I am discussing. I would add that as App 1 section 6 to my always linked shows, on the gamut of the observed universe we have excellent reason to infer that chance + necessity only are on vast improbabilities dynamically incompetent to achieve FSCI as you describe. Second, I would adjust the final sentence to read that it is such agents that are the only entities known to produce machinery of the sort described, even in a world where many may assume or assert that such agents are reducible on origin to chance + necessity only. Then, we can inspect the nanotech of the cell, and lo and behold, i tis a clear instantiation of just such machinery and systems that we know only agents do. Thence we look at the origin of our observed universe and lo and behold it too reflects organised complexity of a sort that is suspiciously familiar . . . that is we see a family resemblance at work. Thence, we see that it would be sensible to change assertions that agency is reducible to chance + necessity in a material world. 3] AIG, 13: AI systems work according to chance and necessity (please don’t confuse this statement with statement about origins!) As directed by intelligent agents, cf above and the always linked. 4] XCD, 12: let’s remember that ID is not the only alternative to evolution. There is after all Creationism in its various forms. Creationism, of course is predicated on inference to design, but adds the further idea that a certain book or tradition gives us an accurate account of origins by the hand of the Agent responsible. This is a further empirical claim, and it is testable and in principle falsifiable. 5] JT, 14: the behavior of an “intelligent agent” is not determined by laws (necessity). Wouldn’t that make it indistinguishable from randomness? Upon what basis do you predict what an intelligent agent will do. If you observe the intelligent agent to discern some rule or pattern, that part of his behavior determined by rules cannot be intelligent agency. Cf just above and as always linked. There is an introductory discussion of intelligence, information, and agency and their characteristics in Section A there. After you read, kindly tell us what you agree with and what your onward objections if any are, why. 5] 17, if a human decides to call heads 10000 times in a row its intelligent agency. If a computer decides to call heads 10000 times in a row its not. This brings us to the issue of specification + complexity as a criterion of successful searcheabilty by a chance-driven process. A computer as others poined out, is prgrammed and reflects chance, cencessity and agency in action. But on the direct point, 10,000 heads is a specific microstate, a functional outcome that is expressible in a very compressed way and one that is instantly recognisable by contrast with an arbitrary string 10001010101110100101010010 . . . . which toi capture essentially has rto simply be repeated, i.e it resists compression. So we have a functional, fine tuned unique, compressibly describable microstate, corresponding to the all heads macrostate. It is 1 of 2^10,000 or 1 in ~ 1.995*10^3010. By contrast with the near-50-50 HT macrostate [within say 1% of 50-50] and other far more easy to access macrostates, this state is of overwhelmingly tiny statistical weight. [This is a classic first example on statistical thermodynamics. Cf for instance Nash's description in his nice short intro.] So, we can confidently say that a fair-biased H/T flip chance-programmed PC would not reach this macrostate on the gamut of the observed cosmos, it is impossible in the soft sense. If a claimed fair random throw program does deliver such a state, it was most liklely rigged or else was most likely grossly defective. 6] 22: . My point was that something not operating according to laws (”intelligent agents”) equates to randomness. I do not think human behavior is random. I also do not think it is something distinct from randomness or law (i.e. what you call “intelligent agent”). This -- so far as one may see, evidently boils down to determinism. Thus, it evidently reduces to the incoherences of reasoning as we think we experience it is a delusional epiphenomenon of matter in motion. Sorry, but then we have every right to infer that reasoned discourse is impossible, positions and claims having then been predetermined. In fact, mind is SELF-determining, i.e we have the power of intelligent choice. [Notice, a cause does not have to pre-exist its effect, it can be simultaneous with it.] On that, we can explain and understand much. Mind is not determined by mater or other minds, through it may be influenced and affected by them. That comports with our experience of being agents who make up our own minds. And so on . . . enough for now. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
January 8, 2008
January
01
Jan
8
08
2008
03:20 AM
3
03
20
AM
PDT
Jerry, your history is entirely accurate, and I agree with everything you say. I still maintain that trial, imprisonment, charges of heresy, house arrest and a ban on publication amount to persecution.BarryA
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
11:52 PM
11
11
52
PM
PDT
aiguy, You may think that "chance" is moderately well defined, but it's not. Your being in AI, the concept of chance is always at hand. You just reach for a random generator to simulate something with a whole lot of factors you don't care about computing. Necessity and Chance are really two ends of a scale of imputed predictability. Necessity occurring with 100% consistency and Chance all over the place. Where we get chance, is that it's silly to argue that a dice "could not have but" rolled a 12. If that were true, we wouldn't ever think of dice as randomizers, they wouldn't have this common use so that we'd even talk about them here. In fact the difficulty to of establishing-- by angle, trajectory, angular momentum, and so forth--makes it an idle speculation. In fact, many of us guess that there is nothing truly random about dice, just that there are so many factors that make two identical throws identical. We assent that given the angle of the wrist, the placement of the dice, the angle of the folds of the skin, the friction of the skin.... But arguing that it could not have but landed as 12 given numerous unspecified factors is no better than saying "random". Now, it can hardly be more controversial to add a third factor, just because we've fooled ourselves into thinking we've understood two others. Do you really want me to believe that this argument of yours was motivated by either "random" thoughts or by your inability to think otherwise? Is it controversial or suspect to "smuggle" into the conversation the idea of an argument that is not random or completely determined (although unspecifically determined, at that)? What would be an unspecified necessity? Something that if I could show you the relationship would be a 1-1 correspondence. But I can't show you it, so you can't observe it, but you must accept that there are near zillions of these little chained states that would show that correspondence--if I could show it to you. But since, necessity is only ever a label we put on observed things, it's a little pointless to cross phenomenological categories like that.jjcassidy
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
11:48 PM
11
11
48
PM
PDT
BarryA says: I never saw the Indian who carved the arrowheads on my wall. Am I compelled to conclude that they resulted from natural forces? I don’t think so. I add: And - strangely enough - you're not required to get a Ph.D. in Archaeology and perform experiments with expensive microscopes to convince unbelievers that those arrowheads were made by men, either!Gerry Rzeppa
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
11:45 PM
11
11
45
PM
PDT
BarryA, Have it your way but what happened to Galileo was relatively mild and for good reason. He was silenced not persecuted. There is a difference. He was 68 at the time and allowed to live his life in house arrest till he died. I believe he continued to write during his house arrest. Urban had been an advocate of Galileo and his Copernican thesis and gave his approval to write about the Copernican's ideas. He just said to do so in a hypothetical manner and include the following argument" Since God is omnipotent, the determination of ultimate causes can not be absolutely certain. A given phenomena could be the result of more than one cause and still appear identical to our eyes. God could have created the world in a number of different ways, where the causes are different even though the effects are the same. Galileo wanted his book published in Rome under the pre-eminent science institute but a couple things intervened after he was asked to make some changes. His patron for the book in Rome died and the academy which was going to publish the book collapsed Also a plague broke out so he could not send the book to Rome for a final check as Florence and Rome were quarantined from each other. He couldn't even send the manuscript since all materials were stopped at the borders. Galileo decided to have the book published in Florence due to the restrictions between the two cities. Eventually additional changes came from Rome and they asked the title be changed from "On the Tides" to "A Dialogue on the Two Chief World's Systems." (Ptolemy vs. Copernicus) This title was apparently suggested by Urban so to say that Urban or the Church was against the discussion was ludicrous or he was persecuted is nonsense. Galileo does include Urban's argument but on the last page of the book and in the mouth of an idiot named Simplicio who everyone took to mean simpleton. Simplicio's comment of Urban's caveat was treated with sarcasm in the book. Urban had protected and supported Galileo, had written a poem in his honor, had given his permission to write the dialogue and for this Galileo stabbed him in the back with embarrassment and insult. Urban was under assault from several places at the time and there was a movement to depose him. It was roughly half way in the 30's Year War. Urban was trying to broker a peace in this war and refused to take the side of the Hapsburgs in the war by providing money and forces or declare the conflict a holy war. Urban refused. The Hapsburgs which included Spain then tried to undermine Urban and was being attacked. It was in the midst of this that Galileo's betrayal took place. There were other funny circumstances too. Galileo was the Tuscan's Duke court philosopher and the Tuscan Duke's name was in big print on the book as a sponsor and the Tuscan Duke was in league with the Spanish King against Urban in an attempt to depose him. It is thought that this is why Urban insisted that Galileo be tried and not for any religious or science reasons. Therse were far from Urban's mind at the time. Also Urban's nephew who was on the Inquisition failed to sign the sentence of Galileo and this could not have happened without Urban's approval. So I think you will have to find another bogey man. I love your essay except for the part about Urban and Galileo at the end.jerry
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
10:24 PM
10
10
24
PM
PDT
Guess the double posting sort of muted the impact. Too bad nothing's ever deleted here.JunkyardTornado
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
09:35 PM
9
09
35
PM
PDT
Junkyard. You have posited a null set. We are talking about the appearance of randomness. I assume you mean a the computer has been programed to generate a random selection of heads and tails. It is impossible for a random number generate to call heads 10,000 times in a row. So your question is literally meaningless. Why would you assume I meant random number generator? Did I say random number generator? A program could be hardwired to only call heads. Or it could call heads if someone yelled "Go Packers". Or it could call heads all night long during a full moon on the first Tuesday of March on Leap Years, or it call heads if someone entered the name of a member of the House of Commons. Or it could could call heads if its facial recognition system identified a person as being Vietnamese. I'm starting to wonder if this is the same BarryA that just rattled off a fifteen page essay on Epistomology.JunkyardTornado
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
09:12 PM
9
09
12
PM
PDT
Well Junkyard, I guess I just can't keep up with you, so I won't try. See ya.BarryA
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
09:00 PM
9
09
00
PM
PDT
BarryA: "Junkyard. You have posited a null set. We are talking about the appearance of randomness. I assume you mean a the computer has been programed to generate a random selection of heads and tails. It is impossible for a random number generate to call heads 10,000 times in a row. So your question is literally meaningless." Why would you assume I meant random number generator? Did I say random number generator? A program could be hardwired to call only heads. Or it could call heads if someone yelled "Go Packers". Whatever its reason you would never call it an intelligent agent, but if human does Is this the same BarryA that just rattled of a 15 page essay on epistemology?JunkyardTornado
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:57 PM
8
08
57
PM
PDT
Junkyard writes: "even harder to predict what a human will do, maybe impossible for us in many instances, but not at all unpredictable in principle, just extremely complex, i.e. determined by a myriad of rules(not in a different category distinct from chance or rules)." I could not disagree with you more. But rather argue free will vs. determinism in this comment section, I will refer you to O'Leary and let her rough you up. Go read her book "The Spiritual Brain," and then come back and tell me human behavior is determined. I double dog dare ya.BarryA
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:49 PM
8
08
49
PM
PDT
Jerry writes: "Pope Urban did not persecute Galileo." Stuff and nonsense. If you don't consider jail, followed by house arrest, followed by a ban on publishing all your works to be "persecution," then you and I have a different definition of persecution. Now it is true, as you say, that Urban initially like Galileo. But that changed quickly when Galileo made a fool of the Pope in public.BarryA
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:46 PM
8
08
46
PM
PDT
Q, interesting question. I did not think this example up off the top of my head. It is based on a game one of my statistics profs played. He had half the students in the class each write down a series of 50 heads and tails and try to make them "look" random. He had the other half each actually flip a coin. He assured the student he would be able to tell the difference and almost always he could. Here's the key: The students who wrote down their own calls almost always tried to avoid any obvious "patterns," for example five heads in a row. But a truly random series will usually have patterns like that. So the prof would call all the papers with "patterns" random and the ones without pattens non-random and he was almost always right. It is counter-intuitive to recognize a human "pattern" by the absence of any seeming pattern, but there you go.BarryA
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:43 PM
8
08
43
PM
PDT
Just to clarify my response, Your response to me assumed I thought human behavior was random. Its hard to believe you thought that. My point was that something not operating according to laws ("intelligent agents") equates to randomness. I do not think human behavior is random. I also do not think it is something distinct from randomness or law (i.e. what you call "intelligent agent").JunkyardTornado
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:41 PM
8
08
41
PM
PDT
BarryA: So you say that human behavior typically falls into a pattern - for example calling 10000 heads in a row? The only reason I could think someone would say humans don't operate according to fixed laws is due to the difficulty in predicting human behavior. So, since we know human behavior is not random, this would seem to put it it in an entirely different category distinct from either law (which can be predicted) or randomness. However, if something is operating according to rules we're not aware of, its behavior will be impossible to predict as well (though its still operating according to rules.) The more complex the environment, and the more complex the entity, the more difficult it is to predict an entity's behavior. Given one stimuli a snail (or something) might flee if its light and approach if its dark. Given the same stimuli a chimp might respond in a myriad of different ways based on attributes of this stimuli that are in effect invisible to a lower level organism. So we have to know much, much more to predict what a chimp will do. Its even harder to predict what a human will do, maybe impossible for us in many instances, but not at all unpredictable in principle, just extremely complex, i.e. determined by a myriad of rules(not in a different category distinct from chance or rules).JunkyardTornado
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:30 PM
8
08
30
PM
PDT
BarryA, you said "Pope Urban VIII persecuted Galileo for his “heretical” ideas in opposition to Ptolemy. " Pope Urban did not persecute Galileo. He was a good friend of Galileo's and most likely believed Galileo's hypothesis was true. But Galileo stepped over the line and betrayed Urban and it was for political reasons that Galileo was silenced and sentenced to a comfortable house arrest. It wasn't science or religion that silenced Galileo but the power politics of major European Catholic rivals, France and the Hapsburgs. Galileo was undermining Urban authority during a very tense time in Europe, namely, the 30's Year War when how the bible was interpreted was an issue. Galileo was actually proposing how to interpret scripture based on his ideas and had labeled Urban a fool in his book which Urban said he could publish. Galileo got off light. In England his head would have been off in a nano second. Also a lot of Galileo's predictions turned out to be wrong despite being one of the greatest scientists in history.jerry
January 7, 2008
January
01
Jan
7
07
2008
08:19 PM
8
08
19
PM
PDT
1 2 3 4 5

Leave a Reply