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Darwinist Debating Device #6: “The Literature Bluff”

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In this post Dr. Hunter shows us professor of English Terry Scambray completely destroying three Ph.D Darwinists on basic logic and reasoning.   

Jeffrey Shallit takes to his website to rebut Professor Scambray’s arguments and falls flat on his face. 

First Shallit takes Scambray to task for asserting that  “Animals and plants appear in the fossil record fully formed and remain unchanged through millions of years.”  Shallit dismisses the claim as “pure creationist babble.” 

Eminent Darwinist Stephen Jay Gould wrote the following:   

The history of most fossil species includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism:

(1) Stasis. Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually limited and directionless.

(2) Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and ‘fully formed.’ 

Apparently the most famous Darwinist of the late 20th century was going around spouting “pure creationist babble.”  Who knew? 

Next, Shallit makes a classic literature bluff. 

Scambray claims, “Over millions of generations of laboratory testing, fruit flies, as one example, when subjected to genetic changes have not changed into anything but mutated, crippled fruit flies.” Really? At my university, we have access to articles that say something different. Maybe at Bizarro College, they don’t. 

Notice that Shallit does not actually say what the “something different” is that refutes Scambray’s assertion.  Why not?  Because Scambray’s assertion is correct.  Every attempt to demonstrate evolution through irradiating fruit flies has been an abject failure.  What is the “something different” to which Shallit alludes?  We may never know, but we do know that he is bluffing.   

Note carefully the common Darwinist tactic here: 

Literature bluff:  There are thousands of books and articles demonstrating Darwinist proposition X. 

Calling the bluff:  OK, show me exactly where in just one of those books or articles this proposition is established. 

Inevitable Darwinist response:  [crickets] 

Next, Shallit goes after Scambray over those famous Galapagos finches. 

Scambray writes: 

So also much the same thing happened with the famous “Galapagos finches” whose average beak size became bigger when the conditions there made it harder to find food due to bad weather. Then when food became more plentiful, the beak size of those finches that survived returned to normal. Thus the finches changed a little, adapted, while remaining fundamentally unchanged. 

Shallit’s rebuttal: 

Mr. Scambray, if he has ever visited the Galapagos, must have visited a parallel Galapagos, because he claims, “Thus the [Galapagos] finches changed a little, adapted, while remaining fundamentally unchanged.” He doesn’t seem to understand that there are 15 different species of finches, all descended from a common ancestor that colonized the Galapagos millions of years ago. Things must be different in Bizarro World. 

First, Shallit does not actually respond to the argument that Scambray made.  Scambray points to evidence that is undisputed by all researchers, whether they toe the Darwinist line or not:  With respect to a particular species of finch, environmental pressures caused a change in beak size and when those pressures eased the beak sizes reverted to normal.  

Shallit completely ignores this evidence and responds to an assertion that Scambray did not even make.  Shallit pretends that Scambray asserted that there are never any changes within a type [this is called “erecting a strawman”] and then demolishes the argument that Scambray did not make by noting there are 15 different types of finches on the Galapagos [This is called “knocking down a strawman”]. 

No, Mr. Shallit.  Scambray never asserted that there are never any changes within a type.  He asserted that the “finch beak evidence” that Darwinists commonly assert is knock down show stopping evidence for marcroevolution is in fact no such thing.  It is unsurprising that your response is to try to change the subject and demolish an argument that Scambray never made. 

I HAVE SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST. 

Shallit implies that the fact that there are 15 different finch species that all descended from a common ancestor over millions of years is a clincher for Darwinist macroevolution. 

Now let me get this straight.  Millions of years ago there was a finch. Now there are 15 kinds of finches, but they are all basically the same kind of thing.  (That’s why we call all of them “finches.”) 

 Shallit takes evidence of minor changes within a kind that even the most fervent young earth creationist would admit and claims those minor changes are indisputable evidence for how finches came to be in the first place.   Astounding.

If I didn’t have the actual citation and link to Shallit’s post I would not blame you for accusing me of making it up.  But you can see for yourself that I did not make it up.  This is exactly what he wrote.  And this leads me to the following conclusion:  The best evidence against Darwinism is often what the Darwinists themselves write.   

I will concede that Shallit knows Darwinism inside out.  And if anyone would know of valid Darwinist arguments to rebut Scrambray, it would be him.  Yet, Shallit’s facile and childish “rebuttal” does not stand up to the slightest scrutiny.  

Comments
Alan @ 1: “[It’s almost] as if you accept that environmental changes in the niche occupied by a population of finches can cause change in allele frequency and hence change in the phenotype over time.” Of course I accept that Alan. I don’t know anyone on either side of the Darwinism debate that disputes that. I assume there's a point hiding in that statement somewhere, but I can't figure out what it is. “I do wonder what you mean by normal, however?” I don’t mean anything by “normal.” You’ll need to ask the researchers who performed the study what they meant by “normal.” I assume they meant that average beak sizes reverted to the pre-famine mean.Barry Arrington
March 4, 2013
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Claiming that the observation different species of finch is proof of Darwinian evolution is tantamount to saying that different species of dogs are the result of Darwinian evolution. Oh, the silliness. It's painful to watch. Darwinian evolution is a religion on the way to extinction. Then it will be forgotten. A hundred years from now, history books will just call it the era of collective stupidity, an aberration.Mapou
March 4, 2013
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footnote: Genomes of similar species - Cornelius Hunter PhD. Excerpt: Massive genetic differences were also found between different fruit fly species. The fruit fly is one of the most intensely researched organisms and in recent years a systematic study of the genomes of a dozen different species was undertaken. Evolutionists were surprised to find novel features in the genomes of each of these different fruit fly species. Thousands of genes showed up missing in many of the species, and some genes showed up in only a single species. [9] As one science writer put it, “an astonishing 12 per cent of recently evolved genes in fruit flies appear to have evolved from scratch.” [10] These so-called novel genes would have had to have evolved over a few million years—a time period previously considered to allow only for minor genetic changes. [11,12] ,,, etc.. etc… http://www.darwinspredictions.com/#_4.2_Genomes_of Orphan Genes (And the peer reviewed 'non-answer' from Darwinists) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zz6vio_LhY Genes from nowhere: Orphans with a surprising story - 16 January 2013 - Helen Pilcher Excerpt: When biologists began sequencing genomes they discovered up to a third of genes in each species seemed to have no parents or family of any kind. Nevertheless, some of these "orphan genes" are high achievers (are just as essential as 'old' genes),,, But where do they come from? With no obvious ancestry, it was as if these genes appeared out of nowhere, but that couldn't be true. Everyone assumed that as we learned more, we would discover what had happened to their families. But we haven't-quite the opposite, in fact.,,, The upshot is that the chances of random mutations turning a bit of junk DNA into a new gene seem infinitesmally small. As the French biologist Francois Jacob wrote 35 years ago, "the probability that a functional protein would appear de novo by random association of amino acids is practically zero".,,, Orphan genes have since been found in every genome sequenced to date, from mosquito to man, roundworm to rat, and their numbers are still growing. http://ccsb.dfci.harvard.edu/web/export/sites/default/ccsb/publications/papers/2013/All_alone_-_Helen_Pilcher_New_Scientist_Jan_2013.pdfbornagain77
March 4, 2013
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Mr. Fox @8, your bluffing and here's why: Experimental Evolution in Fruit Flies (35 years of trying to force fruit flies to evolve in the laboratory fails, spectacularly) – October 2010 Drosophila melanogaster is a model organism for the study of genetics and some laboratory populations have been bred for different life-history traits over the course of 30 years. Professor Michael Rose, of UC Irvine, began breeding flies with accelerated development in 1991 (600 generations ago). Doctoral student Molly Burke compared the experimental flies with a control group on a genome-wide basis. This is significant because it is the first time such a study of a sexually reproducing species has been done. Burke examined specific genes and also obtained "whole-genome resequencing data from Drosophila populations that have undergone 600 generations of laboratory selection for accelerated development." The results are noteworthy on several counts: "For decades, most researchers have assumed that sexual species evolve the same way single-cell bacteria do: A genetic mutation sweeps through a population and quickly becomes "fixated" on a particular portion of DNA. But the UCI work shows that when sex is involved, it's far more complicated. "This research really upends the dominant paradigm about how species evolve," said ecology and evolutionary biology professor Anthony Long, the primary investigator. The researchers were looking for the fixation of positive mutations within the genome and within the whole population. This is referred to using the term "selection sweep". When it occurs, the new mutation at a base pair (a novel single nucleotide polymorphism or SNP) not only experiences replication to be transmitted to the descendants of the organism, but the gene pool of variation is effectively swept clean as the new mutation becomes dominant in the whole population. However, such sweeping was conspicuous by its absence. "Recent research on evolutionary genetics has focused on classic selective sweeps, which are evolutionary processes involving the fixation of newly arising beneficialmutations. In a recombining region, a selected sweep is expected to reduce heterozygosity at SNPs flanking the selected site. [. . .] Notably, we observe no location in the genome where heterozygosity is reduced to anywhere near zero, and this lack of evidence for a classic sweep is a feature of the data regardless of window size." The paper considers a range of possible explanations for the evidence obtained. First: "Classic sweeps may be occurring, but have had insufficient time to reach fixation." Second: "selection in these lines may generally act on standing variation, and not new mutations." Third, "selection coefficients associated with newly arising mutations are not static but in fact decrease over time." No conclusion is reached regarding these various options. "Despite decades of sustained selection in relatively small, sexually reproducing laboratory populations, selection did not lead to the fixation of newly arising unconditionally advantageous alleles. This is notable because in wild populations we expect the strength of natural selection to be less intense and the environment unlikely to remain constant for ~600 generations. Consequently, the probability of fixation in wild populations should be even lower than its likelihood in these experiments. This suggests that selection does not readily expunge genetic variation in sexual populations, a finding which in turn should motivate efforts to discover why this is seemingly the case." This empirical work is worth noting on two counts. First, we are here considering a mechanism that is central to Darwinian evolution. Positive natural selection of hereditable variation is the key (we are informed) to understanding how descent with modification occurs. However, the first set of empirical data relating to a sexually reproducing species does not confirm that modification works this way. This is why Long's comment is worth repeating: "This research really upends the dominant paradigm about how species evolve". Many scientists have long suspected that the Darwinian mechanisms are inadequate to account for large-scale transformation - these research findings provide empirical support for such doubts. The other reason for taking an interest in this research is that the Darwinian paradigm has been widely used in the development of drugs for medical use. Whereas the classical view is that genes have specific functions, the new research supports the growing body of evidence that the norm is for genes to have pleiotropic effects. A novel SNP can then be expected to have not one, but many, effects. This has been underplayed by researchers of a darwinian persuasion. "Based on that flawed paradigm, Rose noted, drugs have been developed to treat diabetes, heart disease and other maladies, some with serious side effects. He said those side effects probably occur because researchers were targeting single genes, rather than the hundreds of possible gene groups like those Burke found in the flies. Most people don't think of flies as close relatives, but the UCI team said previous research had established that humans and other mammals share 70 percent of the same genes as the tiny, banana-eating insect known as Drosophila melanogaster." Genome-wide analysis of a long-term evolution experiment with Drosophila Molly K. Burke, Joseph P. Dunham, Parvin Shahrestani, Kevin R. Thornton, Michael R. Rose and Anthony D. Long. Nature, 467, 587-590, (30 September 2010) | doi: 10.1038/nature09352 (preprint) Experimental evolution systems allow the genomic study of adaptation, and so far this has been done primarily in asexual systems with small genomes, such as bacteria and yeast. Here we present whole-genome resequencing data from Drosophila melanogaster populations that have experienced over 600 generations of laboratory selection for accelerated development. Flies in these selected populations develop from egg to adult ~20% faster than flies of ancestral control populations, and have evolved a number of other correlated phenotypes. On the basis of 688,520 intermediate-frequency, high-quality single nucleotide polymorphisms, we identify several dozen genomic regions that show strong allele frequency differentiation between a pooled sample of five replicate populations selected for accelerated development and pooled controls. On the basis of resequencing data from a single replicate population with accelerated development, as well as single nucleotide polymorphism data from individual flies from each replicate population, we infer little allele frequency differentiation between replicate populations within a selection treatment. Signatures of selection are qualitatively different than what has been observed in asexual species; in our sexual populations, adaptation is not associated with 'classic' sweeps whereby newly arising, unconditionally advantageous mutations become fixed. More parsimonious explanations include 'incomplete' sweep models, in which mutations have not had enough time to fix, and 'soft' sweep models, in which selection acts on pre-existing, common genetic variants. We conclude that, at least for life history characters such as development time, unconditionally advantageous alleles rarely arise, are associated with small net fitness gains or cannot fix because selection coefficients change over time. See also: Scientists Decode Genomes of Precocious Fruit Flies, ScienceDaily (September 19, 2010) http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2010/10/07/experimental_evolution_in_fruit_fliesbornagain77
March 4, 2013
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50 million year old Fruit Fly fossil compared to modern Fruit Fly: http://en.harunyahya.net/fruit-fly-fossils-creation-museum/bornagain77
March 4, 2013
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Interesting story developing on Larry Moran's Blog. I challenged him to explain two issues: Self-assembly of proteins overcoming entropy barrier and Patten Baldness from evolutionary prospective: "1. Self-assembly of proteins: while I appreciate your offer to explain how proteins fold, I was looking more for the explanation as to what makes proteins self-assemble in the face of entropy barrier. To make this subject interesting to a larger audience, (I hope you appreciate that since your blog has been asleep, especially lately…) I was going to use the famous example of the bacterial flagellum motor. Most people know that it self-assembles in a perfect way within about 20 minutes. However, there are some problems there that I have issue with, such as: The number of ways that the proteins can fold to assemble the motor, which is wrong is enormous…? It is definitely greater than the number of ways that the proteins can fold together that is right… How can this happen in real time within 20 minutes? There is more to this issue, but I’m not going to bother as I would like you boring blog to revitalize a bit… I have more in store soon…Trust me Larry… 2. Regarding Pattern Baldness Larry, I didn't mean to be disrespectful just because you have this “evolutionary side-effect”... To be more specific, I was looking for a logical explanation as to how, from evolutionary point of view, you can explain this phenomenon. Not necessarily why it happens (Venter often says that we are just hairless monkeys, so what is the problem….?) While I can buy this explanation to a degree, my question earlier specifically targeted the extent of pattern baldness from evolutionary prospective, or for that matter, any prospective… Just to emphasize; If pattern baldness is part of evolutionary process, why do you, Venter and others lose hair in the hairline, top of the scalp and crown, but never, ever on the side behind the ears and the lower part of the scalp the upper neck? (There is an exception to the small part of the neck, just in case my father ever reads this…He would kill me if I omitted this ....). It does not make any sense. Just to fill you in, many of my patients complain that while they lose the hair on the scalp, they grow more and more hair everywhere else—ears, eyebrows, back and ass. This is not a joke. Why on earth would evolution eliminate the hair that is “no longer necessary” and grow the hair that is even less needed?" Larry chose two referees for this contest; Michel Behe and Michael Denton. I just need to get in touch with them to agree to this contest. Can someone help me out to contact them? This may turn out to be an interesting event and pretty high profile too... http://sandwalk.blogspot.ca/2013/02/saturday-february-28-1953.html?showComment=1362411409652#c5312255526461622950John Witton
March 4, 2013
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One or two article in there must be worth a glance, or am I bluffing?!Alan Fox
March 4, 2013
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Beneficial mutations in DrosophilaAlan Fox
March 4, 2013
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Mr. Fox you ask
So Barry’s wrong then, Phil?
You tell me, Shallit claimed:
“Over millions of generations of laboratory testing, fruit flies, as one example, when subjected to genetic changes have not changed into anything but mutated, crippled fruit flies.” Really? At my university, we have access to articles that say something different.
That 'something different', as far as I can tell, wasn't even a mutation experiment done in a laboratory, furthermore the rapid epigenetic response in the fruit fly study he did cite, did not claim that anything appeared but fruit flies, and in fact the response was the result of 'directed' mutations. Thus it is not even an example of neo-Darwinism!,,, Mr. Arrington called it a literature bluff. I agree entirely. If you disagree, and you think Mr. Arrington was mistaken in calling it a literature bluff, please tell us exactly why Shallitt's paper supports neo-Darwinism and does not support ID!!!bornagain77
March 4, 2013
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Further notes on fruit flies:
Response to John Wise – October 2010 Excerpt: A technique called “saturation mutagenesis”1,2 has been used to produce every possible developmental mutation in fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster),3,4,5 roundworms (Caenorhabditis elegans),6,7 and zebrafish (Danio rerio),8,9,10 and the same technique is now being applied to mice (Mus musculus).11,12 None of the evidence from these and numerous other studies of developmental mutations supports the neo-Darwinian dogma that DNA mutations can lead to new organs or body plans–because none of the observed developmental mutations benefit the organism. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/10/response_to_john_wise038811.html …Advantageous anatomical mutations are never observed. The four-winged fruit fly is a case in point: The second set of wings lacks flight muscles, so the useless appendages interfere with flying and mating, and the mutant fly cannot survive long outside the laboratory. Similar mutations in other genes also produce various anatomical deformations, but they are harmful, too. In 1963, Harvard evolutionary biologist Ernst Mayr wrote that the resulting mutants “are such evident freaks that these monsters can be designated only as ‘hopeless.’ They are so utterly unbalanced that they would not have the slightest chance of escaping elimination through natural selection.” – Jonathan Wells http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/08/inherit_the_spin_the_ncse_answ.html#footnote19 ‘No matter what we do to a fruit fly embryo there are only three possible outcomes, a normal fruit fly, a defective fruit fly, or a dead fruit fly. What we never see is primary speciation much less macro-evolution’ – Jonathan Wells Darwin’s Theory – Fruit Flies and Morphology – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJTIwRY0bs Experimental Evolution in Fruit Flies (35 years of trying to force fruit flies to evolve in the laboratory fails, spectacularly) – October 2010 Excerpt: “Despite decades of sustained selection in relatively small, sexually reproducing laboratory populations, selection did not lead to the fixation of newly arising unconditionally advantageous alleles.,,, “This research really upends the dominant paradigm about how species evolve,” said ecology and evolutionary biology professor Anthony Long, the primary investigator. http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2010/10/07/experimental_evolution_in_fruit_flies Gene Regulatory Networks in Embryos Depend on Pre-existing Spatial Coordinates – Jonathan Wells – July 2011 Excerpt: The development of metazoan embryos requires the precise spatial deployment of specific cellular functions. This deployment depends on gene regulatory networks (GRNs), which operate downstream of initial spatial inputs (E. H. Davidson, Nature 468 [2010]: 911). Those initial inputs depend, in turn, on pre-existing spatial coordinate systems. In Drosophila oocytes, for example, spatial localization of the earliest-acting elements of the maternal GRN depends on the prior establishment of an anteroposterior body axis by antecedent asymmetries in the ovary. Those asymmetries appear to depend on cytoskeletal and membrane patterns rather than on DNA sequences,,, https://www.discovery.org/f/7751/ Seeing the Natural World With a Physicist’s Lens – November 2010 Excerpt: Scientists have identified and mathematically anatomized an array of cases where optimization has left its fastidious mark, among them;,, the precision response in a fruit fly embryo to contouring molecules that help distinguish tail from head;,,, In each instance, biophysicists have calculated, the system couldn’t get faster, more sensitive or more efficient without first relocating to an alternate universe with alternate physical constants. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/science/02angier.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=seeing%20the%20natural%20world%20with%20a%20physicist%27s%20lens&st=cse Darwin or Design? – Paul Nelson at Saddleback Church – Nov. 2012 – ontogenetic depth (excellent update) – video Text from one of the Saddleback slides: 1. Animal body plans are built in each generation by a stepwise process, from the fertilized egg to the many cells of the adult. The earliest stages in this process determine what follows. 2. Thus, to change — that is, to evolve — any body plan, mutations expressed early in development must occur, be viable, and be stably transmitted to offspring. 3. But such early-acting mutations of global effect are those least likely to be tolerated by the embryo. Losses of structures are the only exception to this otherwise universal generalization about animal development and evolution. Many species will tolerate phenotypic losses if their local (environmental) circumstances are favorable. Hence island or cave fauna often lose (for instance) wings or eyes. http://www.saddleback.com/mc/m/7ece8/ Understanding Ontogenetic Depth, Part II: Natural Selection Is a Harsh Mistress – Paul Nelson – April 7, 2011 Excerpt: The problem may be summarized as follows: — There are striking differences in the early (embryonic) development in animals, even within classes and orders. — Assuming that these animals are descended from a common ancestor, these divergences suggest that early development evolves relatively easily. — Evolution by natural selection requires heritable variation. — But heritable variations in early development, in major features such as cleavage patterns, are not observed. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/04/understanding_ontogenetic_dept_1045581.html
bornagain77
March 4, 2013
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So Barry's wrong then, Phil?Alan Fox
March 4, 2013
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that ‘something different’ that Shallit places so much confidence in, is:
Genetic evidence for adaptation-driven incipient speciation of Drosophila melanogaster along a microclimatic contrast in “Evolution Canyon,” Israel – 2001 Excerpt: an analysis of microsatellites suggests a limited exchange of migrants and lack of recent population bottlenecks. We hypothesize that adaptation to the contrasting microclimates overwhelms gene flow and is responsible for the genetic and phenotypic divergence between the populations. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC60847/
Thus it is not even clear whether reproductive isolation was achieved in the 'something else' paper.
"The closest science has come to observing and recording actual speciation in animals is the work of Theodosius Dobzhansky in Drosophilia paulistorium fruit flies. But even here, only reproductive isolation, not a new species, appeared." from page 32 "Acquiring Genomes" Lynn Margulis. Selection and Speciation: Why Darwinism Is False - Jonathan Wells: Excerpt: there are observed instances of secondary speciation — which is not what Darwinism needs — but no observed instances of primary speciation, not even in bacteria. British bacteriologist Alan H. Linton looked for confirmed reports of primary speciation and concluded in 2001: “None exists in the literature claiming that one species has been shown to evolve into another.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/05/selection_and_speciation_why_d.html
Moreover rapid response to environment pressure is a very anti-Darwinian thing to observe since, according to neo-Darwinism, the random variation is 'suppose' to be independent of the need of the organism. To find time after time that the variations to the genome are 'directed' to meet a specific stress from the environment is certainly not something Darwinists should take comfort in!
Soft Inheritance (Epigenetics): Challenging The Modern Synthesis – Lablonka, Lamb – 2008 Excerpt: We believe that rather than trying to continue to work within a framework of a Synthesis that was made in the last century, we now need a new type of evolutionary theory, one that acknowledges Darwinian, Lamarkian and saltational processes. http://www.somosbacteriasyvirus.com/soft1.pdf Epigenetics and Soft Inheritance – Challenging The Modern Synthesis – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52d5jWK1vdc New Research Elucidates Directed Mutation Mechanisms – Cornelius Hunter – January 7, 2013 Excerpt: mutations don’t occur randomly in the genome, but rather in the genes where they can help to address the challenge. But there is more. The gene’s single stranded DNA has certain coils and loops which expose only some of the gene’s nucleotides to mutation. So not only are certain genes targeted for mutation, but certain nucleotides within those genes are targeted in what is referred to as directed mutations.,,, These findings contradict evolution’s prediction that mutations are random with respect to need and sometimes just happen to occur in the right place at the right time.,,, http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2013/01/news-research-elucidates-directed.html (Epigenetics) Histone-modifying proteins, not histones, remain associated with DNA through replication – August 23, 2012 Excerpt: A study of Drosophila embryos,, found that parental methylated histones are not transferred to daughter DNA. Rather, after DNA replication, new nucleosomes are assembled from newly synthesized unmodified histones. “Essentially, all histones are going away during DNA replication and new histones, which are not modified, are coming in,”,, “What this paper tells us,” he continues, “is that these histone modifying proteins somehow are able to withstand the passage of the DNA replication machinery. They remained seated on their responsive binding sites, and in all likelihood they will re-establish histone modification and finalize the chromatin structure that allows either activation or repression of the target gene.” http://phys.org/news/2012-08-histone-modifying-proteins-histones-dna-replication.html
If Shallit is so impressed with that, I'm surprised Shallit didn't pull out the old Lizard cecal valve adaptation as an example of neo-Darwinism in action:
Phenotypic Plasticity - Lizard cecal valve (cyclical variation)- video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEtgOApmnTA
of note on finches: Materialists/atheists never mention the fact that the variations found in nature (such as peppered moth color and finch beak size), which are often touted as solid proof of evolution, are always found to be cyclical in nature. This blatant distortion/omission of evidence led Phillip Johnson to comment in the Wall Street Journal:
"When our leading scientists have to resort to the sort of distortion that would land a stock promoter in jail, you know they are in trouble."
Here is a more detailed look at the finches
Wired Science: One Long Bluff - Refuting a recent finch speciation claim - Jonathan Wells - Nov. 2009 Excerpt: "Does the report in Wired Science mean that “biologists have witnessed that elusive moment when a single species (of Galapagos finch) splits in two?” Absolutely not." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/11/wired_science_one_long_bluff.html
bornagain77
March 4, 2013
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Alan Fox:
That sounds almost evolutionary, Barry!
In what way?
Almost as if you accept that environmental changes in the niche occupied by a population of finches can cause change in allele frequency and hence change in the phenotype over time.
That sounds like Dr Spetner's "built-in responses to environmental cues", Alan. Evolution BY DESIGN!Joe
March 4, 2013
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1- Shallit is one of many who think that anyone who argues against evolutionism, argues for the fixity of species- no change is allowed. IOW they argue against a known strawman and are proud of it. 2- And that means he also equivocates- any evidence for change is evidence for evolutionismJoe
March 4, 2013
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With respect to a particular species of finch, environmental pressures caused a change in beak size and when those pressures eased the beak sizes reverted to normal.
That sounds almost evolutionary, Barry! Almost as if you accept that environmental changes in the niche occupied by a population of finches can cause change in allele frequency and hence change in the phenotype over time. I do wonder what you mean by normal, however?Alan Fox
March 4, 2013
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