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Fun from Facebook: Fake ID pages

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For months, some ID-friendly Facebookers have been trying to draw my attention to fake-ID Facebook pages. But Facebook is one of those systems I use without fully understanding it, so resisted getting involved.

Well, yesterday, I got clear enough information to have a look:

… you are still listed as a member on the fraudulent group. Could you please post a Warning message to that wall stating “Official Page here is a FAKE ID group run by an atheist with a FAKE account. Please do not support his fraud”.

Possibly, even a short write-up about the profile in this OP, as we have been trying to get this fraud shut down for a year?

Okay. So far as I can see, these are legitimate ID-oriented Facebook pages:

The Official ID Facebook Page (over 7000 members).

I don’t know what makes that page official. The ID community has no governing body. But it is probably representative of a large section of lay interest.

I also commend to your interest (775 members) Natural Genetic Engineering, which is named in honour of well-known molecular biologist and Darwin critic James Shapiro.

And Intelligent Design – Consistent with the program Discovery Institute (790 members) I don’t think the Discovery Institute sponsors the page; more likely, the members feel they are more in line with its goals.

Readers may wish to suggest other such pages; these are only the ones I have been asked or permitted to post links to, to spur discussions.

Okay, now about fake pages, here is one: It has 2780 members, and the artwork looks like it could be from an official page. Indeed, as the founder of the “official” ID page put it, “That’s the other thing is that since they stole our name, and copy our cover photos, it causes some members to do a double take not sure just exactly which board they’re on.”

When I posted links yesterday from Uncommon Descent to the Official ID Facebook Page, those links were appearing a sidebar at the fake page  (that, of course, may not continue hereafter). So it might at times look very much like the actual page.

It turned out I was even a member (no longer). How did that happen? I have been informed,

The purpose of his FAKE Behe and Meyer accounts is to collect creationist friends that he dumps into his fake group without permission (that’s how you ended up there) and the purpose of his FAKE group is to mock ID while booting everyone who defends ID, …

I have since left the group I never intentionally joined.

You wouldn’t even really notice what the page was unless you happened to read the intro copy written by Christopher Hartsil:

Irreducible complexity remains fallacious on a number of levels. Out of the gate it is a gap argument as not knowing how X developed is not evidence *for* anything. Secondly are the falsification criteria. They each are separate fallacies themselves.

So it obviously isn’t an ID page and one wonders how many of those some thousands of supposed members have any idea they have been enrolled.

There was a fake Mike Behe page quite recently, but it has been removed, I am told it will likely be replaced by another. Other ID theorists also have/have had/will have fake pages dedicated to detracting them as well. The Genesis Key was offered as another example, apparently from the same shop.

Some ID opponents defend the practice of fake pages. For example,

I would support ID if its claims were based on actual science. I am here because it is clearly not science, and I cannot allow ID to use MY cloak to fool its victims.

So instead of making clear that he does not support ID, he belongs to a fake ID page…

Two takehome points: People would not engage in these antics if they thought they could compete in an open forum.

Second, if they get a tighter hold on the whip hand, expect more than fake Facebook pages from them.

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Comments
Why do you always have 20-30 premade accounts and pages ready to go out the shoot? Why do you troll pretending to be an atheist and a creationist? Why do make fake Behe and Meyer profiles to collect friends that were added to your fake groups? https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Christopher%20Hartsil&sid=0.1717457664038039Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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Actually I was using my real name to start with and a band of creationists continually flagged them. "Why do you always have 20-30 premade accounts and pages ready to go out the shoot?" I made most of those to accept Chad 'The Atheist Killa' Elliott's challenge to which he promptly and continually blocked me, refusing to debate. There presumably being no censorship here is exactly why I would win. Creationists are the only ones that have to engage in censorship of criticism. As far as "Christopher Hartsil runs" I'd say you might want to fact check but why would you start now? https://www.facebook.com/groups/CreationstsAreScaredOfChristopherHartsil/permalink/540514109418456/CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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What's a matter? You can't sensor comments here or hide the fact that you make fake profiles and pages on a daily basis that become copy / cat groups. You can't win here, so why not just crawl back into your hole and pretend to be "winning" something. :) http://theatheistkilla.blogspot.com/2014/10/christopher-hartsil-runs.html https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Christopher%20Hartsil&sid=0.1717457664038039Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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Why do you always have 20-30 premade accounts and pages ready to go out the shoot? Why do you troll pretending to be an atheist and a creationist? Why do make fake Behe and Meyer profiles to collect friends that were added to your fake groups? https://www.facebook.com/search/more/?q=Christopher%20Hartsil&sid=0.1717457664038039Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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No, Chartsil. You were there using the fake name "Ethan Metzger" (10 fake names ago) and was booted for spamming and trolling and in retaliation stole the group name and cover art. Get your story straight. :)Paleysghost
November 30, 2014
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Here's a challenge; Instead of droning about 'fraudulent' groups (I wasn't aware that only proponents of an idea could make pages about it) try naming one run by actual creationists that doesn't engage in censorship.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Actually I created my ID group because I was censored from the other for correcting Dennis Jones on ignorance of genetics and co-optation. I continually pointed out that systems which can only be considered IC can and do evolve and even cited several examples. His response was blocking me. Get your story straight.CHartsil
November 30, 2014
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Also, would like to pint out that "Christopher" (although nobody can be certain who he really is)has always been closely associated with real account "Andrew Lowe" to the point that it seems almost obvious that it either is Lowe or (at the very least) his closest real life butt buddy. http://theatheistkilla.blogspot.com/2014/10/christopher-hartsil-runs.htmlPaleysghost
November 24, 2014
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Well, the main goal is to inform people and to hopefully get people to flag these FAKE accounts and to not support fraud. I was the admin on the "original" Pro-ID Official Page when this crumb was booted for tolling and then turned around and stole our groups name and cover art with the purpose of committing fraud. Christopher Hartisl is not a real individual, but has up to 65 FAKE names and accounts and promtes religious hatred everywhere he goes (on top of misrepresentation and fraud). Please, report this account as a FAKE to facebook. https://www.facebook.com/PhysicsPanda?fref=nfPaleysghost
November 24, 2014
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OldArmy94 @5 Interesting and true. So many people claim to own science. Remarkably, they can't even point to an "official" theory of evolution, for example. Who owns that? Dawkins? I read where evolutionists are concerned because many science educators in schools want ID introduced to students. But science educators are not an official voice of science? There's some kind of invisible club you have to join to be a "real scientist". They try to protect the club with peer review and academic standing, but it's a game.Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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I would support ID if its claims were based on actual science. I am here because it is clearly not science, and I cannot allow ID to use MY cloak to fool its victims. This quote, by one of the fakers above, really summarizes the issue well. Note how they claim ownership of something that isn't subject to possession. Science is a process, not a verdict.OldArmy94
November 24, 2014
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They collect creationist friends in order to add them to a group where they’ll be banned for supporting ID?
Atheist logic, I guess. But anyway. There's a distinction between readers and posters. It's meant to torment the people who read the abuse. But if you speak up you get banned (or I'd guess just lose posting privileges).Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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Atheists can justify anything they want to - even deception which points out the problem of amoralistic worldviews. Morals cannot be derived from atheism or evolutionary worldviews. You just can't get "ought" from "is". All you have are people with differing ideas about morality. Morality becomes a personal thing that can be changed without breaking any code or feeling guilty because one knows - at least thinks he knows - that all morality is relative and man made so not binding in the least.tjguy
November 24, 2014
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They collect creationist friends in order to add them to a group where they'll be banned for supporting ID?Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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Facebook is one of those systems I use without fully understanding it, so resisted getting involved.
I don't understand it or use it.
The Official ID Facebook Page (over 7000 members). I don’t know what makes that page official.
The whole environment of Facebook strikes me as fake. The Official ID Facebook Page itself is fake because there's nothing official about it. I wouldn't call 7000 members a very big community either. I liked how John C. Dvorak from PC Magazine once complained that we've got the freedom to create whatever we want on the internet and yet people put themselves in Facebook. It's like the old America On Line. Ok, teenagers need a place to congregate so I can see that. I just hope these ID advocates offer themselves in the real world of the web and don't limit themselves to Facebook. I can't believe I'm finally sounding like a grouchy old man. I've been waiting all my life for this. :-)Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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