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Gil Has Never Grasped the Nature of a Simulation Model

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Tom English challenged me with this:

I say categorically, as someone who has worked in evolutionary computation for 15 years, that Gil does not understand what he is talking about. This is not to say that he is trying to mislead anyone. It is simply clear that he has never grasped the nature of a simulation model. His comments reflect the sort of concrete thinking I have tried to help many students grow beyond, often without success.

The reason for Tom’s lack of success is that he, and Darwinists in general, try to explain everything with an overly — indeed catastrophically — simplistic model. Here’s what’s involved in a real-world computer simulation:

My mathematical, computational, and engineering specialty is guided-airdrop technology. The results of my computer simulations, and their integration into the mechanics of smart parachutes, are now being used to resupply U.S. forces in Afghanistan. C-130 and C-17 aircraft can now drop payloads from up to 25,000 feet MSL, out of range of enemy small-arms, shoulder-launched missile, and RPG fire, and the payloads autonomously guide themselves to their targets within a CEP (circular error probable) of approximately 26 meters. Did I do all of this highly sophisticated mathematical and software simulation without ever having “grasped the nature of a simulation model”?

One small part of developing this technology involves mathematically and computationally simulating the descent rate of a parachute and its payload at various altitudes. This includes the following: the drag coefficient of the parachute, the chute reference area, the density of the air at various altitudes (not only determined by altitude but lapse rate — the rate at which air temperature changes with altitude), and other subtle considerations, such as the flow-field effects of the payload which changes the drag characteristics of the parachute.

If any mathematical, computational, or real-world assumptions about any of these factors are wrong, or if any unforeseen factors are left out (and what I described above represents a small percentage of what’s involved), the simulation breaks down. We do our best, but we never know for sure until we throw the thing out of an airplane, see where it lands, and tediously analyze the telemetry data recorded by the in-flight computer.

Based on these observations and computer simulations that can be tested in the real world, what confidence can anyone have that biological evolutionary computer simulations have anything to do with reality?

The answer is: none. It’s all fantasy and speculation, masquerading as science.

Comments
Recip Bill, I think Davescot's point on scale effectively answered Karl - nevermind that AVIDA has a comparatively miniscule search space and nevermind that what Karl calls IC in AVIDA is built step-wise, which means the complexity was built gradually and can therefore be reduced gradually, thus isn't really IC.todd
October 4, 2006
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j: By your defintion, dog breeding would be a Darwinian process. Yes, I think that Darwin in his own writings used some examples from animal and plant husbandry - artificial selection. I'm not a big enough Darwin aficianado to give you a quote, though. Sorry I didn't post earlier, we might have avoided an unecessary definition war. So dog breeding is a Darwinian process that uses artificial selection pressure to manipulate dog shapes, and evolution is a Darwinian process that uses natural selection. The core Darwinian idea is heritable variation and any kind of selection. That is why Darwin also worked on sexual selection, it isn't survival of the fittest, its survival of the cutest! For the most part Darwinian evolution doesn't head in any particular direction, IMHO. Lots of current species occupy the same niche as lots of extinct species, all the way down to convergent evolution of specific body features. Too many of the mechanisms just lead to drifting populations. But there are a few mechanisms that do give a gradual directionality to life's parade - adding more diversity in the form of more complex species over time. One of the most interesting uses of GA/GP to me is to discover which mechanisms are responsible for which kind of effects. OT - DaveScot, a question if I may? If someone is "outtahere" is that relative to the thread or the blog? I'm relatively new to UD and I don't know the ground rules very well.David vun Kannon
October 4, 2006
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PaV wrote to Karl: "You seem to be suggesting–and quite earnestly it appears–that Avida is more “real” than nature, and that if Avida can produce IC, then this proves that nature ought to be able to do it as well, leaving IDers in the position of having to prove that nature can’t produce IC." PaV - I think you have misread the logic of Karl's statement. By analogy: We have the Smith brothers: Bob and Bill. It has been asserted that Bill will never make good, because no Smith will ever make good. But Bob worked hard and became a billionaire. Hence you can no longer maintain that Bill will never make good because no Smith will ever make good. You must show why Bill, specifically, will never make good. However, to assert this is not to prove that Bill will make good. Similarly, Karl did not assert that Avida's success in creating IC *proves* that biological evolution can create IC. Rather, Karl asserted that Avida shows that blind evolutionary processes generally can produce IC. Hence you can no longer maintain that biological evolution, a subset of the class of blind evolutionary processes, can't produce IC because blind evolutionary processes can't produce IC. You must now show why biological evolution, specifically, can't produce IC. However, this does not *prove* that biological evolution *can* produce IC, and Karl has not maintained that.Reciprocating Bill
October 4, 2006
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Studies with separated identical twins have made it very apparent that a belief or lack of same in a Creator has a congenital basis. The extent to which this can be reversed is problematical. Atheism, political,liberalism, ethical and moral relativism and Darwinism are all clearly correlated and may be pleiotropic expressions of the same congenital condition. Once recognized, this immediately explains why internet debates are hopeless enterprises and a huge waste of everybody's time. We are all victims of our prescribed fates. As the title of William Wright's book proclaims, we are "Born That Way." It is hard to believe isn't it? "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable." John A. DavisonJohn A. Davison
October 4, 2006
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Todd: "The funny thing about people is how belief shapes perception - the theory of intelligent design presents a threat to the believing materialist’s deepest held convinctions about reality, just as darwinism did to believing theists." Well put. Materialism really is a philosophical reality to them, not merely the "methodology" as many of them assert. From what I can tell, most of them that claim to hold a methological naturalism really hold a philosophical materialism. They simply hate hate hate the idea of a designer/creator/god/higher power. Simple as that. It's visceral. It's emotional. It's non-rational. When you get past all the surface arguments, like Dawkins latest whining, these is what neutral, genuinely agnostic, people are up against. And it's an entrenched ideology and it's going to take some doing to bring it down. What is at stake is basically a religion. Humans have been known to go to war over such things.mike1962
October 4, 2006
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Todd: "Tom and Karl did come off at times as condescending however, neither were vulgar nor defamatory." Right. I think Tom is rather arrogant at times. And he wacked me with a personal zinger once (which I no doubt deserved, since I am given to impetuous posts on occasion, and rarely proof or edit what I write.) But I'd like to see them both continue here. Their involvement has been valuable overall.mike1962
October 4, 2006
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The emphasis above showed on the preview but not in the post - here's the quote again, I'll use bold instead of underline this time:
But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. (emphasis mine)
todd
October 4, 2006
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(Off Topic) Well, I rather enjoy reading the interchanges among many differing views, even if certain parties argue in the circular, with strawmen, by association, false dilemma or using misrepesentation.
John Stuart Mill, writing in On Liberty: But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. (emphasis mine)
The moderators here are certainly 'the government' of this blog and commenters are free to post elsewhere, so the context of this quote (political free speech) doesn't apply - the emphasis above is what I'm getting at. Tom and Karl did come off at times as condescending however, neither were vulgar nor defamatory. We still lose even though DS may be right about intellectual dishonesty because other discussions with those individuals are cut off, so probes from different angles are lost. Those who read but don't post are robbed as well. The funny thing about people is how belief shapes perception - the theory of intelligent design presents a threat to the believing materialist's deepest held convinctions about reality, just as darwinism did to believing theists. The biggest difference is that many materialists sneer at faith and refuse to acknowledge their world view is also shaped by faith. What DS calls intellectual dishonesty is more a defensive mechanism - for a materialist to 'see' design requires a willingness to be humbled. Anyway, seeds are sown in discussions like this, despite bluster and denial, to all who follow the thread. Germination varies by individual and removing two willing and mostly polite foils effectively throttles reason's water. My $0.02, anyway, take it or leave it.todd
October 4, 2006
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You can't reason with a Darwimp. They are congenitally deaf, like most pure white cats, to what Einstein called "the music of the spheres." The only problem with banning them is it deprives unimpaired minds of the great pleasure of openly ridiculing them. It is neither fitting nor proper to lampoon them if they aren't here to absorb and digest it. I love it so! "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable." John A. DavisonJohn A. Davison
October 4, 2006
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Karl I never said anyone modeled microprocessors at the transistor level. That's a straw man. Tom English put those words in my mouth. He said modeling evolution at the protein level is like modeling processors at the transistor level. I replied with an article talking about modeling processors at the gate level. I presumed Tom knew that gates are just a few transistors each and wouldn't quibble. But of course to save your egos both of you did continue to quibble. In point of fact electronics are modeled and understood even at the quantum scale as necessary. I suspect both you and English knew that but are simply too intellectually dishonest to admit that biological systems are not well enough understood to model them like a microprocessor. You're done here, Karl. I find your dishonesty offensive. DaveScot
October 4, 2006
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Karl Pfluger: "As I said, the label you apply to the process is unimportant." Compared to the issues, I agree. However, I would still maintain that to avoid confusion, one shouldn't use "Darwinian" for a process that utilizes intelligence. Just as one shouldn't use "evolutionist" when one means "Darwinist." Karl Pfluger: "The important questions are the ones I raised at the end of my comment: The argument then comes down to this: are there intermediate rewards in nature’s fitness functions? It would appear that the only option left to ID supporters is to contend that such intermediate rewards will only occur in a fitness function that is designed by an intelligence, and never in a “natural” fitness function. How would you support this contention?" My reply to BC addressed your questions. It's you who need to support your contention that non-intelligent processes can do what you claim. We know that intelligent processes are capable of generating IC and CSI. We don't know that non-intelligent process are, and yet you maintain that thay are.j
October 4, 2006
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Karl As I pointed out before, nobody claims to be doing detailed “photorealistic” simulations of evolution as it actually unfolded on earth. What they are mostly trying to do is to determine the capabilities and limitations of Darwinian processes, in hopes that (among other motivations) this will shed light on the process and trajectory of biological evolution. Fair enough. Let's recap what was actually done. Avida proved that a trial and error algorithm can cobble together an EQU instruction out of microcode. I already knew it could be done. Programmers and indeed every person on the planet with a pulse uses trial and error to find solutions to problems. [yawn] Let's be clear about what it did not produce. It did not produce irreducible complexity. It used a stepwise process to produce what it did. If a structure can be produced by a stepwise process, where at each step the structure functions in some meaningful way that makes it worth keeping, then it is not an irreducible structure. DaveScot
October 4, 2006
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Karl Pfluger wrote:
There’s much to disagree with in your last few comments, but let me concentrate on your most egregious statements. . . . Here’s the source of your confusion: . . .
Karl, I’ve already spoken about the condescending attitude you’ve displayed on UD. Are you completely unable to curb it? To presume that it is I who is confused, and to proceed to lecture me like one of your undergraduates, is not only inappropriate, but presumptuous. You quote me as saying/writing: "Karl, you seem to be missing the point that if the proteins don’t fold properly, then biochemical function comes to an end. I hope you understand that. And, of course, NS can’t act on something that is not biologically active. Hence, the massive amount of computer power required to search out the proper solution to folding is an undertaking that “random mutation and NS” would in some way have to deal with.” To this you reply:
. . . you think that NDE must “understand” or “compute” protein folding in order to find proteins that fold “properly” and enhance the fitness of the organism possessing them. That is a complete misunderstanding of how NDE works.
Tell me, how did you arrive at such a conclusion? What did I write that would substantiate this claim? I make a very simple and straightforward point: if the random computer search for proper folding proteins involves tremendous computing power, this implies that the “search space” for such proper folding is huge; thus, in the real world, RM+NS must find its way through this same amount of search space, which in turns requires a huge amount of time. This huge amount of time represents a severe constraint on the viability of a RM+NS scenario. Your suggestion that NDE doesn’t need to “know” if a protein folds properly is completely beside the point. That in no way affects the size of the "search space". What is to the point is that if the “search space” is so huge, the odds of nature randomly coming up with just the right one is hugely small. And (and this was also part of the point I was making) in the meantime properly folding proteins are needed for life, a fact that militates even more against such a random solution. ___________________________________ I wrote:
You seem to be suggesting–and quite earnestly it appears–that Avida is more “real” than nature, and that if Avida can produce IC, then this proves that nature ought to be able to do it as well, leaving IDers in the position of having to prove that nature can’t produce IC.
You respond:
I’d be curious to know where you got that impression, for I’ve said nothing of the kind.
But, of course, you did. You said: ‘If you want to argue that biological evolution cannot produce IC, you can no longer simply say “Of course evolution can’t produce IC, because no mindless Darwinian process can ever produce IC.” You have to come up with specific reasons why biological evolution, unlike Avida, cannot generate IC.’ How else can you possibly interpret your rejection of the phrase: “Of course evolution can’t produce IC, because no mindless Darwinian process can ever produce IC.” In rejecting this phrase, you’re making absolutely no distinction between the world of biology and the world of computer simulation. You’re, in fact, equating them. This is patently clear, no matter how much you protest it isn’t so. You wrote: “Abstraction is part and parcel of my work as a compute engineer.” Have you taken it too far ? (And I don't say this to attack you.)PaV
October 3, 2006
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j wrote:
The print edition of M-W defines “Darwinian” as “of or relating to Charles Darwin, his theories esp. of evolution, or his followers.” I sense definition creep.
As I said, the label you apply to the process is unimportant. The important questions are the ones I raised at the end of my comment:
The argument then comes down to this: are there intermediate rewards in nature’s fitness functions? It would appear that the only option left to ID supporters is to contend that such intermediate rewards will only occur in a fitness function that is designed by an intelligence, and never in a “natural” fitness function. How would you support this contention?
Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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todd asks:
Starting with existing complexity begs the question, doesn’t it?
What question does it beg? If the object of the simulation is to see whether a Darwinian process can endow "organisms" with a novel feature not present in their ancestors, it would be pointless to start from scratch. We don't include the Big Bang each time we simulate an assembly line, do we?
I think DaveScot’s point about rocks to the moon is where your myopia originates.
What unwarranted extrapolation do you think I am making? (Please refer to something I've actually written, and not just to your assumptions about what I believe).
...you can in no way model all the forces involved in the onward march of life and haven’t the lifespan or manpower to observe what you claim happened to produce life as we know it.
As I pointed out before, nobody claims to be doing detailed "photorealistic" simulations of evolution as it actually unfolded on earth. What they are mostly trying to do is to determine the capabilities and limitations of Darwinian processes, in hopes that (among other motivations) this will shed light on the process and trajectory of biological evolution.Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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BC: "You can read what I wrote again if you want, but if you don’t understand it, you’re not going to understand it." I had read the entire thread before commenting. What I lack is your faith in the power of a chance and necessity, not understanding. The only one of your comments (25, 60, 121, 129) that is relevant is the one I took your quote from, #129. In that comment you said, "the mutated organisms that survive in their environment (sometimes because they have the best genes) tend to produce the most offspring." This leads to the classic Darwinian tautology: the survival of those who survive. (What does the word "best" mean your sentence?) BC: "I already described the role goals play in genetic algorithms, and why natural selection acts as a perfectly good replacement for the predefined goal in genetic algorithms." Your claim that the nebulous "evolution towards better survival" is equivalent to an "externally-defined goal" is groundless. You believe it. Prove it. Show me a computer program that can generate irreducible complexity or complex specified information without intelligently-designed fitness functions (or the equivalent). BC: "My description is a more detailed explanation of what Altenberg says; they aren’t incompatible." They're incompatible. To be effective GA's must have fitness functions that are correlated with a specific goal. "Better survival" is vacuous. _____ Karl Pfluger: The print edition of M-W defines "Darwinian" as "of or relating to Charles Darwin, his theories esp. of evolution, or his followers." I sense definition creep.j
October 3, 2006
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Scott wrote:
Now, your challenge is to demonstrate how Avida proves that blind, comatose, natural mechanisms can build highly complex, specified, cellular machinery which requires all of it’s components simultaneously to function.
Scott, Why on earth is it "my challenge" to explain something I don't believe and which I explicitly disavowed earlier in the thread? I wrote:
Avida has shown that a Darwinian process is capable of producing irreducible complexity. Does that prove that biological evolution can also do so? Of course not. But what it does do (and this is extremely significant) is to show that nothing about IC is inherently unreachable by a Darwinian process.
Scott, debate is much more productive when you don't invent your opponent's views out of whole cloth. DaveScot wrote:
Any complexity produced in a stepwise fashion by a computer is by definition not irreducible.
Dave, I'll let you fight it out with Behe and Dembski, who have different ideas: Behe:
By irreducibly complex I mean a single system composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning.
Dembski:
A functional system is irreducibly complex if it contains a multipart subsystem (i.e., a set of two or more interrelated parts) that cannot be simplified without destroying the system’s basic function.
IC precludes a stepwise buildup while maintaining the same function. It does not preclude a stepwise buildup via different intermediate functions, as in Avida's path to the EQU function.Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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Todd: Starting with existing complexity begs the question, doesn’t it? Yes, it would, if that is what really happens. BC was giving a very loose description of GAs. The initial population of most GAs is random. The biggest concern is making sure that every possible allele is available for every gene. In a binary GA that would mean making sure that every position in the bit string had 50% 1s and 50% 0s in the population. There is a small literature about building the initial population in some "optimal" way in GAs, and in GP there are a lot of heuristics people use, but it comes down to ensuring diversity is available. A researcher that includes some specifically designed individuals in the initial population is betting they are smarter than the algorithm. In some uses of GAs for purely practical tasks of optimising something, this is fine. In a research program to discover the native power of the algorithm, it is cheating and un-ethical behavior. OT - congrats on leaving comment 150! This one of the best discussions I've seen here at UD.David vun Kannon
October 3, 2006
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DaveScot wrote:
Not only is gate level verification the most robust it’s not even good enough anymore.
Dave, You're confusing timing verification with simulation. Obviously, timing analysis has to take low-level physical properties of the circuits into account. This is done piecemeal on small portions of the design. But I repeat, nobody simulates an entire microprocessor at the transistor level. It is simply the wrong level of abstraction to use, just as it makes no sense to model beach erosion by tracking each grain of sand individually.Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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Karl, I think DaveScot's point about rocks to the moon is where your myopia originates. Can you tell me what the search area is in AVIDA? IOW, with how much 'raw material' do you start? Do the rules in AVIDA mirror real world physics? You know, I don't have a problem with you or other darwinists inferrring the complexity and origin of life had no intelligent cause and 'just is'. But you can in no way model all the forces involved in the onward march of life and haven't the lifespan or manpower to observe what you claim happened to produce life as we know it. ID does the same thing. If ID isn't science because intelligence is inferred, then neither is darwinism.todd
October 3, 2006
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BC wrote above, "What happens in Genetic Algorithms is this: Start with some organisms. There is some mutation..." In other words, start with a massive biological set of information, followed by mutation and so on. Starting with existing complexity begs the question, doesn't it?todd
October 3, 2006
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I wrote:
Again, the only ingredients required for a Darwinian process are reproduction, heritable random variation, and selection. Avida has all of these.
j wrote:
You’re misusing the word “Darwinian.” Intelligence must not be involved in deciding what survives for the process to be Darwinian.
I disagree, and merriam-webster.com backs me up:
Darwinian 2 : of, relating to, or being a competitive environment or situation in which only the fittest persons or organizations prosper.
Nothing about that definition stipulates that intelligence cannot be involved in setting the criteria for 'fittest'. But don't get hung up on the word 'Darwinian' -- it's just a label, after all. The real issue is that you (and many other IDers) believe that intelligence is sneaking into Avida via the fitness function, because the fitness function is designed, and that this renders Avida fundamentally dissimilar to biological evolution. I'm a bit baffled by this objection. Of course the fitness function influences the behavior of a Darwinian process. If it didn't have an effect, it wouldn't be considered a necessary ingredient, would it? So yes, a fitness function will favor certain evolutionary directions and discourage others. But this is just as true of natural selection as it is of Avida. I can confidently predict that natural selection will not produce neon-green Arctic hares that stand out like beacons against a background of snow. If you think the Avida fitness function is "sneaking" information into the model, then the same must be true when natural selection favors white Arctic hares that blend in with the snow and rules out the neon-green variety. A criticism often levelled against the Avida 'EQU' experiment is that the fitness function was 'rigged' to reward intermediate steps. As the argument goes, Avida was only able to reach the EQU goal because of the intermediate rewards. But this is exactly what the Avida folks intended, as they acknowledge in their Nature paper:
Some readers might suggest that we ‘stacked the deck’ by studying the evolution of a complex feature that could be built on simpler functions that were also useful. However, that is precisely what evolutionary theory requires, and indeed, our experiments showed that the complex feature never evolved when simpler functions were not rewarded.
Their whole point was to show that if there were intermediate rewards, an IC result could be achieved. The argument then comes down to this: are there intermediate rewards in nature's fitness functions? It would appear that the only option left to ID supporters is to contend that such intermediate rewards will only occur in a fitness function that is designed by an intelligence, and never in a "natural" fitness function. How would you support this contention?Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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Actually, a model of a supernova can be performed on a Mac, if you accept a "paradigm shift". http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=re6qxnz1 EXCERPT
How does a star explode? The conventional "implosion followed by explosion" model has many shortcomings. An electric star, on the other hand, has internal charge separation which can power a star-wide, expulsive lightning-flash. The star relieves electrical stress by fissioning or blowing off charged matter. A star also has electromagnetic energy stored in an equatorial current ring. Matter is ejected equatorially by discharges between the current ring and the star. Our own Sun does it regularly on a small scale. However, if the stored energy reaches some critical value it may be released in the form of a bipolar discharge, or ejection of matter, along the rotational axis. The remnant of SN 1987A shows such a bipolar ejection in the form of two blobs of matter (inside the bright ring). A companion star may initiate a stellar discharge that results in fissioning. It is significant in this context that an unexplained and much-disputed "Mystery Spot" appeared along the line joining the two blobs and was seen briefly a couple of months after the explosion and then quickly faded from sight. The spot was too far away to have been ejected by the supernova and its brightness (10% of the supernova) was too great to be explained by reflection off a cloud of matter. It may have been a faint companion that triggered, or was a part of the circuit of the electrical supernova discharge. The bright beaded ring shows that matter has been ejected equatorially. However, the ring is not expanding. The other two fainter rings are also arranged above and below the star on the same axis and show similar but fainter “bright spots”. Conventionally, a shock wave from an exploding star should show spherical, rather than axial, symmetry. And there is no particular reason why the shock front should form a ring of bright spots. We should expect some visible indication of the spherical cavity. Stars are an electrical plasma discharge phenomenon. Electrical energy produces heavy elements near the surface of all stars. The energy is transferred over cosmic distances via Birkeland current transmission lines. The energy may be released gradually or stored in a stellar circuit and unleashed catastrophically. It is these cosmic circuits that are the energy source for the supernova explosion – not the star. That is why the energy output of some nebulae exceeds that available from the central star. See Shocks from Eta Carina. The electrical energy released in supernova fissioning is prodigious, so it is no surprise that there is an abundance of heavy elements and neutrinos dispersed into space by the stellar "lightning flash." The crucial evidence for the electrical nature of supernovae must come from experiment and observation. Anthony L. Peratt, Fellow, IEEE, published a seminal paper in the IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science, Vol. 31, No. 6, December 2003. It was titled “Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity.” In it he explained the unusual characteristics of a high-energy plasma discharge. He discussed mega-ampere particle beams and showed their characteristic 56- and 28-fold symmetry. He wrote: “A solid beam of charged particles tends to form hollow cylinders that may then filament into individual currents. When observed from below, the pattern consists of circles, circular rings of bright spots, and intense electrical discharge streamers connecting the inner structure to the outer structure." Initially, the particle beam was cylindrical but after traveling the 15 cm has filamented. In the sub-gigaampere range, the maximum number of self-pinched filaments allowed before the cylindrical magnetic field will no longer split into “islands” for the parameters above has been found to be 56. These results verify that individual current filaments were maintained by their azimuthal self-magnetic fields, a property lost by increasing the number of electrical current filaments. The scaling is constant for a given hollow beam thickness, from microampere beams to multi-megaampere beams and beam diameters of millimeters to thousands of kilometers.” This scaling of plasma phenomena has been extended to more than 14 orders of magnitude, so the bright ring of supernova 1987A can be considered as a stellar scale "witness plate" with the equatorial ejecta sheet acting as the "plate" for the otherwise invisible axial Birkeland currents. Peratt adds, “Because the electrical current-carrying filaments are parallel, they attract via the Biot-Savart force law, in pairs but sometimes three. This reduces the 56 filaments over time to 28 filaments, hence the 56 and 28 fold symmetry patterns. In actuality, during the pairing, any number of filaments less than 56 may be recorded as pairing is not synchronized to occur uniformly. However, there are “temporarily stable” (longer state durations) at 42, 35, 28, 14, 7, and 4 filaments. Each pair formation is a vortex that becomes increasingly complex.” The images of SN 1987A shows the Birkeland currents around the star have paired to a number close to 28. The bright spots show a tendency toward pairing and groups of three. This witness plate model explains why the glowing ring is so nearly circular and is expanding very slowly - unlike a shock front. It is more like a cloud at night moving through the beams of a ring of searchlights. If the equatorial ring shows the Birkeland currents in the outer sheath of an axial plasma current column, then the supernova outburst is the result of a cosmic z-pinch in the central column, focused on the central star. It is important to note that the z-pinch naturally takes the ubiquitous hourglass shape of planetary nebulae. No special conditions and mysteriously conjured magnetic fields are required. It is also the shape of SN1987A with its three rings. It will be instructive for plasma cosmologists to watch closely the development of SN1987A’s “necklace of incandescent diamonds.” I do not expect the ring to grow as a shock-wave-produced ring would be expected to. Some bright spots may be seen to rotate about each other and to merge. It is an opportunity more rare and valuable than a diamond to be able to verify the electric discharge nature of a supernova. Supernova 1987A will be illuminating the future of plasma cosmology! Plasma cosmologists have not ignored the pulsar, sometimes found in a supernova remnant. Healy and Peratt in “Radiation Properties of Pulsar Magnetospheres: Observation, Theory and Experiment,” concluded, “the source of the radiation energy may not be contained within the pulsar, but may instead derive either from the pulsar’s interaction with its environment or by energy delivered by an external circuit.... [O]ur results support the ‘planetary magnetosphere’ view, where the extent of the magnetosphere, not emission points on a rotating surface, determines the pulsar emission.” In other words, we do not require a hypothetical super-condensed object to form a pulsar. A normal stellar remnant undergoing periodic discharges will suffice. Plasma cosmology has the virtue of not requiring neutron stars or black holes to explain compact sources of radiation. This completes the electrical sketch of supernova 1987A.
P. Phillips
October 3, 2006
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DS: Not all things are scalable, DvK. Just because I can pile rocks to the roof of my house doesn’t mean I can eventually pile them to the moon. Absolutely agree. A single data point tells us nothing about how this kind of process will scale. But it does serve as an existence proof. A GA discovered real, biologically useful peptide sequences by modeling biology and then completeing the circuit by testing the sequences against live bacteria. All the talk about Avida is irrelevant to this result.David vun Kannon
October 3, 2006
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I’m an evolutionist. (I think you meant Darwinists?) It’s not splitting hairs. The goal is the power supply for GA’s.
Quoting Altenberg as he makes an analogy proves nothing. My description is a more detailed explanation of what Altenberg says; they aren't incompatible. When he says, "It is this knowledge... that is the source of power in genetic algorithms.", he is right - the "knowledge" or "goal" is used to provide a selection differential. Without a selection differential, nothing happens in GAs or in real-world evolution. I already described the role goals play in genetic algorithms, and why natural selection acts as a perfectly good replacement for the predefined goal in genetic algorithms. I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseum. You can read what I wrote again if you want, but if you don't understand it, you're not going to understand it.BC
October 3, 2006
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Avida is a joke. - ha ha ha. "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."John A. Davison
October 3, 2006
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Scott, If you have an argument to make, make it. Otherwise, feel free to take your bluster and bold fonts elsewhere. I am prepared to justify my assertion. Are you able to do the same?
Karl: As a moderator here, it is my responsibility to call people out on their empty and unwarranted assertions and just-so stories. Especially the tired ones that have been exposed time and time again. Therefore, it is unlikely that I'll be going away any time soon. You, on the other hand, will likely become fast extinct from this blog unless you can legitimately support silly comments like the one I quoted above. Now, your challenge is to demonstrate how Avida proves that blind, comatose, natural mechanisms can build highly complex, specified, cellular machinery which requires all of it's components simultaneously to function. DaveScot put it in the proper perspective:
Scott didn’t tell you why that was nonsense. Any complexity produced in a stepwise fashion by a computer is by definition not irreducible. Make us all sit up and take notice by getting a computer simulation to reveal a biochemical pathway, based on nothing but random mutation and simulated natural selection, where a flagellum can be produced. I remain quite unimpressed by Avida finding pathways where higher level operands are produced by trial and error tinkering with microcode. Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional acorn.
Scott
October 3, 2006
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Karl Not only is gate level verification the most robust it's not even good enough anymore. My emphasis below. http://www.techonline.com/community/ed_resource/feature_article/21478
At increasingly dense nanometer-process technologies, electrical and physical phenomena exhibit significantly greater effect on circuit performance. In fact, interconnect delay, coupling capacitance and power-network IR voltage drop already dominate gate delay at the 130 nm process node and threaten to overwhelm gate delay in emerging 90 nm technologies (Figure 5). Nevertheless, conventional signoff methodologies rely on traditional gate-level verification tools that are unable to accurately detect these nanometer effects. Traditional signoff methods ignore the very effects that cause nanometer designs to fail. Because of this gap between analysis requirements and traditional verification capabilities, the semiconductor industry, on the average, needs two or more silicon re-spins for over 50% of advanced designs, according to research firm Collett International.
DaveScot
October 3, 2006
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BC: "So, using the "goal”/”no goal” complaint about Genetic Algorithms sounds like splitting hairs to evolutionists." I'm an evolutionist. (I think you meant Darwinists?) It's not splitting hairs. The goal is the power supply for GA's.
Both the regression and the search bias terms require the transmission function to have ‘knowledge’ about the fitness function. Under random search, the expected value of both these terms would be zero. Some knowledge of the fitness function must be incorporated in the transmission function for the expected value of these terms to be positive. It is this knowledge — whether incorporated explicitly or implicitly — that is the source of power in genetic algorithms. (Altenberg 1994)
Karl Pfluger (128): "Again, the only ingredients required for a Darwinian process are reproduction, heritable random variation, and selection. Avida has all of these." You're misusing the word "Darwinian." Intelligence must not be involved in deciding what survives for the process to be Darwinian. Why did you leave off the word "natural" from selection? By your defintion, dog breeding would be a Darwinian process.j
October 3, 2006
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DaveScot wrote:
Actually Tom, they’re mosfets if you want to get techincal about it...
Dave, A MOSFET is a transistor. That's what the 'T' in 'MOSFET' stands for.
...and there are two mosfets in the most basic logic gate (inverter). A NAND gate requires four mosfets.
That's only true for CMOS logic.
Even assistant professors of computer science at Texas Tech should know that all other logic gates can be constructed from NAND gates.
So? The fact that gates contain transistors, and that NAND gates can be used to form other gates, doesn't mean that you have to model a microprocessor at the transistor level.
...microprocessor simulations, prior to creating the first mask, absolutely have to model at the gate level because of something called propagation delay which can result in something called race conditions.
Yes, timing analysis (and a tiny fraction of simulation) is done at the gate level, not at the transistor level. As Tom and I have been saying, it doesn't make sense to model a microprocessor at the transistor level. The only times you would model at the transistor level would be when characterizing your cell library, your macros, and the occasional fully custom speed path.Karl Pfluger
October 3, 2006
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