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Guest Post, Dr YS: “Intelligent Design and arguments against it”

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Dr YS, contribtes thoughts again that are well worth pondering:

>>I’d like to present a summary of the arguments against the design hypothesis that I have come across either as a reader or as an author of a pro-design blog over the past 8 years since I became interested in intelligent design.

The Design Hypothesis

Before we do it, let us first recap on what the design hypothesis really is. It states that some configurations of matter in specific conditions are best explained as caused by purposeful activity of one or more intelligent agents.

  • The ‘specific conditions’ means that we could not directly observe how these configurations of matter came into being and can only analyse them post-factum.
  • ‘Intelligence’ in this context means the capabilities of foresight, goal-setting, strategy planning and strategy realization. Put simply, it is the capability of using adequate means for a purpose. 
  • The ‘purpose’ corresponds to selecting a goal state from among physically or chemically equivalent states (states with minimal total potential energy). Selection is done on a non-physical basis (pragmatic utility).
    • E.g. muckers is a game in which players take turns throwing rings from a distance at a vertically positioned pole on a horizontal playing ground. A player who throws a ring so that it lands at the pole, receives one point. The player getting a maximum score wins. The scoring aside, no matter how you throw a ring or where it lands on the playing field, it ends up in a position where its potential energy is at a minimum value. The ‘meaning’ to each toss that distinguishes a trajectory from among a set of possible trajectories, is assigned by imposing additional (symbolic) constraints specifying the ‘target’ area for a trajectory. The additional constraints are local to the particular physical system (the ring + gravity + the pole).
  • ‘Best’ means the ‘most appropriate’, ‘most parsimonious’ or even ‘characterized by the highest probability’, depending on the context.
  • ‘Design’ means either the process of purposeful activity or an outcome of it. 
    • E.g. a personal computer is a design whereas pebbles on the beach are most likely not. It is possible that pebbles themselves or their particular arrangements can be a design. However, methodologically, it is best to assume they are not unless we have more observations that can help further refine our design-inferential probabilistic model.

Importantly, not every cause in nature is intelligent. For example, gravity is not an intelligent type of causation whereas creating a deck of Microsoft PowerPoint slides, most probably, is. If we have observations that can throw a reasonable doubt on non-intelligence of gravity, for example, we will further refine our understanding of material reality. In the absence of such observations these doubts are not scientifically justified.

The effects of intelligent and non-intelligent causes are sometimes different also. Analyzing this difference is what Intelligent Design is all about. Based on an analysis of some special class of artifacts we can reliably tell if we are dealing with designs. In other cases, it is not possible to distinguish designs from non-designs post-factum, without additional information.

It is important to distinguish between intelligent and non-intelligent causation because this distinction helps us categorize our knowledge of the material world better and, consequently, propose better scientific explanations. The distinction is well supported empirically and, without it, it is not possible to adequately explain a whole class of observations. For example, treating this text as a random collection of differently colored pixels on the screen is a valid scientific model but I doubt it has any practical use as it adds virtually nothing new to our knowledge of the world.

The design hypothesis can be useful in a lot of contexts, such as archaeology and forensics. It adds a lot of insight when applied to biological systems. It is not generally disputed that the ID methodology is sound. At least, I have never encountered anyone who would seriously question the design detection methodology in relation to forensics, archaeology, medicine or cyber-intrusion detection, for instance. The only area of application where ID faces strong opposition is biology. Science has nothing to do with it.

The scientific agenda of Intelligent Design is non-trivial as the main design hypothesis leads to interesting research questions. Intuitively, when we assume that a particular configuration of matter is intelligently created we can reverse-engineer it and then reuse our findings elsewhere. This is done in bionics, for example. ID can lead to non-trivial testable secondary hypotheses in biology per se, as this article shows.

The design detection methodology is summarized by the following abductive inference:

1. We observe phenomenon Р.

2. Р could be explained if hypothesis Н was true.

3. Consequently, we have grounds to believe that H is true.

Examples of P:

– the semiotic triple {sign-interpretant-referent}, notably persistent self-reproducing semiotic triple as in biological systems;

– statistically significant levels of functional complexity.

The basis of abduction in relation to P in the biosphere:

– In all observations other than in biological systems, whose origins are in question, P is a correlate of intelligence. No observations exist where P would arise ab initio without intelligent agency.

I specifically stress that the presented reasoning is nowhere near circular.

Having said this, I will now present arguments against ID that I have encountered. I am not intending to ridicule the reasoning of ID opponents. Simply, in my experience, this is the best they can really offer. In the list below, I will put my comments next to each bullet point.

Popular arguments against Intelligent Design

#Argument against IDComment
1ID is based entirely on Fisherian hypothesis testing. Instead of ruling out any hypothesis entirely, it would have been better to keep all relevant hypotheses on the table because, as we collect observations, different hypotheses can really change their relative importance.Statistical hypothesis testing is an established practical method of assessing scientific hypotheses. ID-opponents are welcome to come up with a better model, if they wish so.
2Who designed the Designer? (=Who painted the painter?)The point of this argument is to demonstrate that ID reasoning is either circular or suffers from infinite regress. Neither is true. 
3What are the properties of the Designer of life?The Designer of life is intelligent: capable of forethought and planning, decision making and strategy implementation. The scale and grandeur of the design of life suggests that the capabilities of the Designer are matching the task. The Designer of life must have had the linguistic capacity since life is inherently linguistic. The only real problem I can see here is complexity because, by the same argument as presented in this OP, the Designer of life should be very complex (perhaps, infinitely complex). My personal take on this, is that the complexity argument does not apply the way the ID opponents want to use it: our consciousness is simple and yet we create complex artifacts. In any case, we just have no other data than human artifacts and life. Perhaps, the AI singularity, if it happens at all, when it does happen, will provide more data to refine our understanding of the complexity issue.
4We have insufficient data to classify life with respect to design. It is the purpose of science to extrapolate our knowledge onto something that has not been observed yet and to make predictions. The workflow is as usual: from observations through analysis to prediction. As more observations become available, predictions are corrected appropriately.
5How the Designer of life created it?By instantiating a persistent self-reproducing semiotic core into physicality. 
6I could have done it better. Therefore it is not a design.An example of flawed reasoning. A poor design is still a design. On the other hand, examples of alleged ‘bad designs’ are simply misunderstandings. People are not taking into consideration the fact that organisms are a result of multicriteria optimization. What appears to be a poor choice is really a compromise between different conflicting objectives.
7Believing in the design of life is the same as believing that the Earth is flat.A rhetorical device aimed at discrediting the opponents by association. It has no real scientific value.
8Information is in your head.
This extreme view denies the objectivity of information processing. It does not take into account the fact that the genetic information translation apparatus installed in all organisms predates humans and is part of objective reality. Questioning the objectivity of information translation phenomenon is equivalent to questioning science itself.
9A river flowing around stones sends information to and receives information from them.This view is the opposite extreme. It does not take into account the fact that it is meaningful to speak about information only where there is information translation. Natural phenomena (apart from organisms and human artifacts) do not involve information translation.
10The cycle of star formation follows an algorithm.
Spotting natural regularity can be formalized as an algorithm. However, regularity itself is NOT an algorithm. An algorithm is a set of coherent instructions that must explicitly be present in memory, read from it and be processed in order for the system to achieve a goal state. In most cases, to achieve a pragmatic purpose an algorithm should be a set of instructions such that the processor eventually stops and produces a result.
11Everything can be coded with 1 bit.
That one is a best-seller. The answer is, obviously, yes, if you have previously established all the information context for it. It is the establishment of the context that involves all the remaining complexity…
12The design hypothesis is circular.
Simply wrong. In the above, there is no circularity at all.
13DNA is not code. The notion of code is ephemeral and subjective.DNA/RNA carry instructions that are interpreted by the cell in the context of protein synthesis. The genetic code is the set of rules used by living cells to translate information encoded within genetic material (DNA or mRNA sequences) into proteins. Translation is accomplished by the ribosome, which links amino acids in an order specified by messenger RNA (mRNA), using transfer RNA (tRNA) molecules to carry amino acids and to read the mRNA three nucleotides at a time.
14Replication of crystals and replication of organisms are essentially the same.
A categorical error. They are not the same. Matrix copying (similar to crystal copying) is part of replication of organisms, but it is only part of it. Replication of living things requires a symbolic memory to store genetic instructions, a mechanism of retrieval and interpretation of those instructions together with a mechanism of interpretation of instructions to replicate the interpreter. Nowhere near replication of crystals.
15Crystallisation is an example of self-organisation.
A categorical error. Organization relates to function, not order. Order is routinely observed in nature as a result of the tendency of system dynamics towards states with minimum total potential energy. This is fundamentally different from organization. Organization involves a non-uniform (irregular) functional whole where function is understood in terms of pragmatic utility. Regular structures like crystals can be used as part of functional systems but, by themselves, neither crystals nor any other naturally occurring regular structures can produce a non-trivial functional whole. Organization imposes specific (e.g. symbolic) constraints on the dynamics of matter in the system. ‘No specific constraints’ means ‘no function’ means ‘no organization’.
16Everything in nature is self-organized just like sand gets sorted by centrifugal forces on river banks.The same categorical error as above equating the motion of matter towards states of minimum total potential energy to functional organization that produces pragmatic utility.
17Semiotics is demagoguery.Another bestseller argument.
18Semiotic effects are reducible to the laws of nature.Including this OP? Are there laws of nature that can predict someone writing this OP?!
19Abduction is fiction, Charles Peirce’s idiosyncrasy.Again, a wonderful counter-argument indeed. It misses a whole history of discoveries and scientific advances based on the seminal ideas of Charles Peirce.
20Lots of vastly different things appeared in ‘every which way’ in the past. Life is just what happened to prevail.An ‘interesting’ thought. And a very specific one, too.
21Science knows a single type of intelligence, that is, one correlated with a protein-based body/brain. Consequently, a hypothetical statement about intelligence outside of a protein body/brain is nonsense.There is a killer counter-example for it, i.e. silicon-based artificial intelligence. The counter-example demonstrates that intelligence can function and multiply outside of protein bodies.
22— Gravity is all that is necessary for our world to appear. — And where did gravity come from? — M-theory.
A categorical error conflating reality with our mental models of it. It lacks coherence and misses the point of organization completely.  This argument is due to Stephen Hawking [paraphrased]. See J. Lennox, “God and Stephen Hawking: Whose design is it anyway?”

>>

Again, food for rich thought. END

Comments
JAD 89 They keep on saying: "We can't just now, but we will answer all of those questions in the future!" It is like saying that a man climbing a tree is getting closer to the Moon. Steady progress...EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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Bob
I think I read that paper a few years ago. I just checked and Web of Science lists 7 citations of it, of which 6 are from linguistics. Front loading seems to have died a death.
What happened later is not the same as whether it was science or not in the first place. If you had read the paper why did you bring this question up as unsettled? The question whether it is science is pretty much answered I believe. It may or may not be fruitful in your estimation, but it is another matter. Even if you think ID has not delivered on its promises, I think you should know there were scientific hypotheses which turned out to be wrong. I think one should give them credit for what they are, scientific hypotheses. It is a matter of intellectual honesty.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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"A theistic world view does not answer those questions either" Pater, According to your own blabber, you are just a mindless, noisy bag of meat reacting chemically to environmental stimuli. What do you know of worldviews and questions? Andrewasauber
November 14, 2019
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hazel- pater missed the nail and banged his thumbET
November 14, 2019
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Pater:
A theistic world view does not answer those questions either, except with fables, handwaving, kicking the can down the road, and pretending to solve the mystery by inventing a bigger mystery.
That is your uneducated opinion, anyway. At least a theistic world view has us on the right path. And it has the evidence and a testable methodology.ET
November 14, 2019
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Pater, nail, head.hazel
November 14, 2019
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@John_a_designer #89 A theistic world view does not answer those questions either, except with fables, handwaving, kicking the can down the road, and pretending to solve the mystery by inventing a bigger mystery.Pater Kimbridge
November 14, 2019
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Have you noticed how our interlocutors hardly ever answer the basic questions? For example, some time ago on an earlier thread (8/17/17) I asked the following questions which so far have gone unanswered:
How did the universe originate from absolute nothing? Why does the universe appear to be fine-tuned for life, including advanced intelligent life? How did life originate from non-life? How did chemistry “create”** code? How did a non-teleological process, like Darwinian evolution, “create” things that are clearly teleological? https://uncommondescent.com/darwinism/programming-by-accident-the-darwinian-paradigm/#comment-628507 How did consciousness and mind originate from mindless matter and a mindless process? To answer any of these questions naturalistically, as far as I can see, requires the belief in what amounts to be a set of “naturalistic miracles.” How is a naturalistic miracle not an extraordinary claim?
https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/neurosurgeon-michael-egnor-why-need-we-pretend-that-the-universe-has-no-purpose/#comment-637966 In other words, as a skeptic, why would I think a naturalist/materialist has a reasonable or viable world view if he cannot answer these questions? Does science really support such a world view? Or is it more the result of personal bias? If they can’t answer the questions listed above how are they warranted in ruling out ID as a possibility a priori?john_a_designer
November 14, 2019
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Derek- any objective person knows that blind watchmaker evolution is totally bogus. No one uses it for anything and it doesn't drive any research. It has never added anything to our knowledge beyond how not to go about science.ET
November 14, 2019
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Bob, you are a hypocrite. You should shut up until you can lead by example, which you never will.ET
November 14, 2019
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EugeneS - I think I read that paper a few years ago. I just checked and Web of Science lists 7 citations of it, of which 6 are from linguistics. Front loading seems to have died a death.
The real difference that opens the door to a non-trivial scientific agenda with testable hypotheses substantially different from what we have now, is postulating design upfront. There’s scientific work going on in design as much as there is money for it.
Of course, there is money at the Biologic Institute. Their scientific output has hardly been spectacular, and they certainly haven't done a good job of developing a Design Paradigm, which is what Eric and I want to see.Bob O'H
November 14, 2019
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Bob O'HNovember 14, 2019 at 2:57 am Yayyy, Eric @ 75! I’ve been watching ID for about 15 years, and this has always been shouting at me as what ID has to do if it wants to be taken seriously by the scientific community. It seems to be stuck in the “pre-science” phase, without a nice paradigm to use to develop a research programme.
sitting on an obscure blog claiming you've Destroyed Darwin! for the 750th time doesn't accomplish anything scientific. It might make insecure creationists feel better, but that's about it.DerekDiMarco
November 14, 2019
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Eugene- Bob O'H is willfully ignorant and won't accept ID until the Designer comes and explains everything to him. And Eric doesn't seem to be familiar with what IDists have been writing and saying since the 1980s. Bob and fellow evos will NEVER ante up and show us how blind watchmaker evolution is science to the exclusion of ID- they will never use blind watchmaker evolution as an example of what science is and ID isn't.ET
November 14, 2019
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Eric #75 and Bob
It is the fine grain predictions that move ID from the philosophy camp to the empirical science camp.
Kindly familiarize yourselves with the referenced paper, as an example: M. Sherman, Universal Genome and the Origin of Metazoa. It is available in full text for free. If this is not science, what is? The real difference that opens the door to a non-trivial scientific agenda with testable hypotheses substantially different from what we have now, is postulating design upfront. There's scientific work going on in design as much as there is money for it.EugeneS
November 14, 2019
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LoL! @ Bob O'H- You are a hypocrite, Bob. You cannot show there is a blind watchmaker research program. You cannot produce any testable predictions born from blind watchmaker evolution. You have nothing but your bluffing cowardice and willful ignorance. ID has done what has been shouting at you for 15 years. Again, your willful ignorance is neither an argument nor a refutation. Everything you have asked for in order for ID to be taken as science, has been given. And when compared to mainstream evolutionary thought, ID easily surpasses it. So please buy a vowel and grow up.ET
November 14, 2019
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Yayyy, Eric @ 75! I've been watching ID for about 15 years, and this has always been shouting at me as what ID has to do if it wants to be taken seriously by the scientific community. It seems to be stuck in the "pre-science" phase, without a nice paradigm to use to develop a research programme.Bob O'H
November 14, 2019
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Intelligent Design also predicts that living organisms are not reducible to physio-chemical processes. Meaning there is at least one essential, fundamental and vital component that is neither matter nor energy. I say at least one because it seems that living organisms are also more than matter, energy and guiding/ guided information. And yes, it is what most people call a soul or mind. But to me it is inherent to all living organisms. Gonzalez and Richards predict that if we find technologically capable extraterrestrials, they would have most, if not all, of the factors required for earth to exist as a habitable planet. Theirs is a prediction based on a universe designed for discovery.ET
November 13, 2019
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Eric- ID does make predictions about the world- see comment 58 for a startET
November 13, 2019
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Bob O'H:
There is an amazing amount of resistance to even asking about positive evidence for design.
Only to the willfully ignorant. Everyone else knows that ID has presented the positive evidence for design.ET
November 13, 2019
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Eric
I totally agree with Bob O’H on the next step for ID. If ID is truly a science, then it should allow us to make predictions about the world, which we can go out and test. And not high level predictions like “there’s order” or “there has to be a conscious observer”, but fine grain predictions. It is the fine grain predictions that move ID from the philosophy camp to the empirical science camp.
I think a prediction is that we will see more evidence of mind as mechanistic explanation for observations going forward. I am starting to see evidence of this in some of the Quantium gravity models where atoms are being modeled as computational devices.bill cole
November 13, 2019
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If post 74 could speak for itself,
"What Am I, Chopped Liver?" https://knowyourphrase.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/chopped-liver-comic.jpg
bornagain77
November 13, 2019
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I totally agree with Bob O'H on the next step for ID. If ID is truly a science, then it should allow us to make predictions about the world, which we can go out and test. And not high level predictions like "there's order" or "there has to be a conscious observer", but fine grain predictions. It is the fine grain predictions that move ID from the philosophy camp to the empirical science camp.EricMH
November 13, 2019
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Bob O'Hara tries to be cute
A nicer collection of gaping holes?
We are not arguing from ignorance but from what we know
“A God of the gaps argument is an argument that has a formal logical structure that in logic is known as a ‘argument from ignorance’. It is an informal fallacy. Arguments from ignorance have the following form.,,, 1. Cause A is not sufficient to produce effect X 2. Therefore cause B must have produced effect X ,,, but if I have no independent evidence that cause B can produce effect X, then I have committed a fallacy of arguing from ignorance. Because, just because cause A is not sufficient to produce effect X doesn't mean that some other cause did it. You have to have independent evidence that that other cause is capable of doing it (i.e. producing the effect in question). That then becomes a God of the gaps argument when you say various natural processes are not sufficient to produce, say, the origin of the first life or the origin of the first animals in the history of life. If I were then to say, “Therefore God did it”, that would be a God of the gaps argument. It would be an argument from ignorance. But that is not how we are arguing when we make the case for Intelligent Design because we are adding an additional premise. We are saying that.,,, 1. Various natural processes are not sufficient to produce new functional information, (specifically the digital code that is stored in the DNA molecule). 2. We do know of a cause that does produce (functional digital) information. (We have independent evidence that intelligent agency, that mind,,, can create (functional digital) information.),,, ,,, so we are not arguing from our ignorance. We are arguing from our knowledge of cause and effect in the world. (Specifically we are arguing from what we know minds can do, i.e. produce information.) - Stephen Meyer Debunks the “God of the Gaps” Objection - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGqzCA1mnyM
And although Theists and/or Intelligent Design Advocates are often accused by atheists of making ‘God of the Gaps’ style arguments, the fact of the matter is that, as science has progressed, it is the Darwinian Atheist himself who has had to retreat further and further into ‘Materialism/Naturalism of Gaps’ style arguments. i.e. into “Science will figure a materialistic answer out to that mystery someday” style argument. To clearly illustrate the ‘materialism of the gaps’ style argument that the materialistic/atheistic philosophy makes, the materialistic and Theistic philosophy make, and have made, several contradictory predictions about what type of scientific evidence we will find. These contradictory predictions, and the evidence we have now found by modern science, can be tested against one another to see if either Atheistic materialism or Theism has made true predictions and/or to see which of those overarching philosophies has had to retreat further and further into 'gap style arguments':
1. Naturalism/Materialism predicted space-time energy-matter always existed. Theism predicted space-time energy-matter were created. Big Bang cosmology now strongly indicates that time-space energy-matter had a sudden creation event approximately 14 billion years ago. 2. Naturalism/Materialism predicted that the universe is a self sustaining system that is not dependent on anything else for its continued existence. Theism predicted that God upholds this universe in its continued existence. Breakthroughs in quantum mechanics reveal that this universe is dependent on a ‘non-local’, beyond space and time, cause for its continued existence. 3. Naturalism/Materialism predicted that consciousness is an ‘emergent property’ of material reality and thus should have no particularly special position within material reality. Theism predicts consciousness precedes material reality and therefore, on that presupposition, consciousness should have a ‘special’ position within material reality. Quantum Mechanics reveals that consciousness has a special, even a central, position within material reality. - 4. Naturalism/Materialism predicted the rate at which time passed was constant everywhere in the universe. Theism predicted God is eternal and is outside of time. – Special Relativity has shown that time, as we understand it, is relative and comes to a complete stop at the speed of light. (Psalm 90:4 – 2 Timothy 1:9) - 5. Naturalism/Materialism predicted the universe did not have life in mind and that life was ultimately an accident of time and chance. Theism predicted this universe was purposely created by God with man in mind. Scientists find the universe is exquisitely fine-tuned for carbon-based life to exist in this universe. Moreover it is found, when scrutinizing the details of physics and chemistry, that not only is the universe fine-tuned for carbon based life, but is specifically fine-tuned for life like human life (R. Collins, M. Denton).- 6. Naturalism/Materialism predicted complex life in this universe should be fairly common. Theism predicted the earth is extremely unique in this universe. Statistical analysis of the hundreds of required parameters which enable complex organic life to be possible on earth gives strong indication the earth is extremely unique in this universe (G. Gonzalez; Hugh Ross). - 7. Naturalism/Materialism predicted it took a very long time for life to develop on earth. Theism predicted life to appear abruptly on earth after water appeared on earth (Genesis 1:10-11). Geochemical evidence from the oldest sedimentary rocks ever found on earth indicates that complex photosynthetic life has existed on earth as long as water has been on the face of earth. - 8. Naturalism/Materialism predicted the first life to be relatively simple. Theism predicted that God is the source for all life on earth. The simplest life ever found on Earth is far more complex than any machine man has made through concerted effort. (Michael Denton PhD) - 9. Naturalism/Materialism predicted the gradual unfolding of life would (someday) be self-evident in the fossil record. Theism predicted complex and diverse animal life to appear abruptly in the seas in God’s fifth day of creation. The Cambrian Explosion shows a sudden appearance of many different and completely unique fossils within a very short “geologic resolution time” in the Cambrian seas. - 10. Naturalism/Materialism predicted there should be numerous transitional fossils found in the fossil record, Theism predicted sudden appearance and rapid diversity within different kinds found in the fossil record. Fossils are consistently characterized by sudden appearance of a group/kind in the fossil record(disparity), then rapid diversity within that group/kind, and then long term stability and even deterioration of variety within the overall group/kind, and within the specific species of the kind, over long periods of time. Of the few dozen or so fossils claimed as transitional, not one is uncontested as a true example of transition between major animal forms out of millions of collected fossils. - 11. Naturalism/Materialism predicted animal speciation should happen on a somewhat constant basis on earth. Theism predicted man was the last species created on earth – Man (our genus ‘modern homo’ as distinct from the highly controversial ‘early homo’) is the last generally accepted major fossil form to have suddenly appeared in the fossil record. (Tattersall; Luskin)– 12. Naturalism/Materialism predicted that the separation of human intelligence from animal intelligence ‘is one of degree and not of kind’ (C. Darwin). Theism predicted that we are made in the ‘image of God’- Despite an ‘explosion of research’ in this area over the last four decades, human beings alone are found to ‘mentally dissect the world into a multitude of discrete symbols, and combine and recombine those symbols in their minds to produce hypotheses of alternative possibilities.’ (Tattersall; Schwartz). Moreover, both biological life and the universe itself are found to be ‘information theoretic’ in their foundational basis. 13. Naturalism/Materialism predicted much of the DNA code was junk. Theism predicted we are fearfully and wonderfully made – ENCODE research into the DNA has revealed a “biological jungle deeper, denser, and more difficult to penetrate than anyone imagined.”. - 14. Naturalism/Materialism predicted a extremely beneficial and flexible mutation rate for DNA which was ultimately responsible for all the diversity and complexity of life we see on earth. Theism predicted only God created life on earth – The mutation rate to DNA is overwhelmingly detrimental. Detrimental to such a point that it is seriously questioned whether there are any truly beneficial, information building, mutations whatsoever. (M. Behe; JC Sanford) - 15. Naturalism/Materialism predicted morality is subjective and illusory. Theism predicted morality is objective and real. Morality is found to be deeply embedded in the genetic responses of humans. As well, morality is found to be deeply embedded in the structure of the universe. Embedded to the point of eliciting physiological responses in humans before humans become aware of the morally troubling situation and even prior to the event even happening. 16. Naturalism/Materialism predicted that we are merely our material bodies with no transcendent component to our being, and that we die when our material bodies die. Theism predicted that we have minds/souls that are transcendent of our bodies that live past the death of our material bodies. Transcendent, and ‘conserved’, (cannot be created or destroyed), ‘non-local’, (beyond space-time matter-energy), quantum entanglement/information, which is not reducible to matter-energy space-time, is now found in our material bodies on a massive scale (in every DNA and protein molecule).
As you can see when we remove the artificial imposition of the materialistic philosophy (methodological naturalism), from the scientific method, and look carefully at the predictions of both the materialistic philosophy and the Theistic philosophy, side by side, we find, since Atheistic materialism has made wrong predictions over and over again, the scientific method is very good at pointing us in the direction of Theism as the true explanation. - In fact, modern science is even very good at pointing us to Christianity as the solution to the much sought after 'theory of everything'
One of the most profound implications for us personally is that allowing the Agent causality of God ‘back’ into physics, as the Christian founders of modern science originally envisioned,,,, (Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday, James Clerk Maxwell, and Max Planck, to name a few of the Christian founders),,, and as quantum mechanics itself now empirically demands (with the closing of the free will loophole by Anton Zeilinger and company), by rightly allowing the Agent causality of God ‘back’ into physics then that provides us with a very plausible resolution for the much sought after ‘theory of everything’ in that Christ’s resurrection from the dead provides an empirically backed reconciliation, via the Shroud of Turin, between quantum mechanics and general relativity into the much sought after ‘Theory of Everything”. Here are a few posts where I lay out and defend some of the evidence for that claim: Overturning of the Copernican Principle by both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/we-are-invited-to-consider-a-simpler-perspective-on-the-laws-of-physics/#comment-680427 (February 19, 2019) To support Isabel Piczek’s claim that the Shroud of Turin does indeed reveal a true ‘event horizon’, the following study states that ‘The bottom part of the cloth (containing the dorsal image) would have born all the weight of the man’s supine body, yet the dorsal image is not encoded with a greater amount of intensity than the frontal image.’,,, Moreover, besides gravity being dealt with, the shroud also gives us evidence that Quantum Mechanics was dealt with. In the following paper, it was found that it was not possible to describe the image formation on the Shroud in classical terms but they found it necessary to describe the formation of the image on the Shroud in discrete quantum terms. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/experiment-quantum-particles-can-violate-the-mathematical-pigeonhole-principle/#comment-673178 https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/experiment-quantum-particles-can-violate-the-mathematical-pigeonhole-principle/#comment-673179
Supplemental note from this morning about the catastrophic epistemological failure inherent within methodological naturalism, in case Bob missed it:
Bob O’H states that he is embarrassed that one of his alumni could dare to support ID education. That is an odd thing for Bob to be embarrassed about given that he himself believes in Darwinian evolution. If Bob’s ’embarrassment meter’ were working properly he should rightly be embarrassed to say that he believes in Darwinian evolution.,,, ,,,, although the Darwinian atheist may firmly believe that he is on the terra firma of science (in his appeal, even demand, for methodological naturalism), the fact of the matter is that, when examining the details of his materialistic and/or naturalistic worldview, it is found that Darwinian materialists are adrift in an ocean of fantasy and imagination with no discernible anchor for reality to grab on to. Again, It would be hard to fathom a worldview that turns out to be more antagonistic towards modern science, indeed more antagonistic towards reality itself, than the presumption of methodological naturalism has turned out to be. https://uncommondescent.com/education/wealthy-scandinavian-benefactor-gives-us1-6-million-eqv-to-promote-id/#comment-687780
Verse:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good.
bornagain77
November 13, 2019
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The bottom line is, we have something, you guys don’t, unfortunately.
A nicer collection of gaping holes? :-)
The surprising thing is, postulating design, just like postulating dark matter — ok, ‘they are looking for it’ (c) but why ID’ers aren’t allowed to make the same claim, no one knows
Oh, we all know - because IDers aren't looking for it. There is an amazing amount of resistance to even asking about positive evidence for design.Bob O'H
November 13, 2019
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I can't speak for Pater, and am not involved in whatever discussion is taking place. I'm merely responding to logical possibility, which covers a very wide area. Of course it is logically possible that life was designed. That statement itself says virtually nothing. The Hindu myth that the universe is completely destroyed and then recreated slightly differently a billion times a second in a way that appears to show cause-and-effect ii logically possible. As I said in the Einstein thread, it is logically possible that life was design by a divine being who does not care at all about the affairs of humankind. Many things are logically possible. JAD said that some person or people here were "simply dismissing the logical possibility that life could be designed a priori", and I said I didn't think that was reasonable.hazel
November 13, 2019
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Hazel, It's simple. Upthread Evolutionist Pater says "Widening the inference to “intelligent being” is an obvious creationist tactic to include their god in the basket.” Evolutionist Hazel says: "Sure it’s logically possible that life was designed." So is ID a logical possibility (Hazel) or a ploy (Pater)? Andrewasauber
November 13, 2019
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re 68: I don't think I know what you are talking about???hazel
November 13, 2019
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John_a_designer 65 A very good comment.EugeneS
November 13, 2019
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"Sure it’s logically possible that life was designed. Is that a controversial statement?" Hazel, So how does the typical Evolutionist logically get from "Sure it’s logically possible that life was designed" to---------->"Widening the inference to “intelligent being” is an obvious creationist tactic to include their god in the basket." That's sure sounds like "logically possible" got turned into "creationist tactic". Please explain. Andrewasauber
November 13, 2019
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It is not logically possible that life arose via blind and mindless processes, ie a process that was not trying to do so.ET
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