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Homologies, differences and information jumps

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shark-553666_1280In recent posts, I have been discussing some important points about the reasonable meaning of homologies and differences in the proteome in the course of natural history. For the following discussion, just to be clear, I will accept a scenario of Common Descent (as explained in many recent posts) in the context of an ID approach. I will also accept the very reasonable concept that neutral or quasi-neutral random variation happens in time, and that negative (purifying) selection is the main principle which limits random variation in functional sequences.

My main points are the following:

  1. Given those premises, homologies through natural history are certainly an indicator of functional constraints, because they mean that some sequence cannot be significantly transformed by random variation. Another way to express this concept is that variation in a functional sequence with strong functional constraints is not neutral, but negative, and therefore negative selection will in mot cases suppress variation and conserve the functional sequence through time. This is a very important point, because it means that strong homologies through time point to high functional complexity, and therefore to design. I have used this kind of argument, for example, for proteins like the beta chain of ATP synthase (highly conserved from LUCA to humans) and Histone H3 (highly conserved in all eukaryotes).
  2. Differences between homologues, instead, can have two completely different meanings:
  •  2a) They can be the result of accumulating neutral variation in parts of the molecule which are not functionally constrained
  • 2b) They can be the expression of differences in function in different species and contexts

I do believe that both 2a and 2b happen and have an important role in shaping the proteome. 2b, in particular, is often underestimated. It is also, in many cases, a very good argument for ID.

 

Now, I will try to apply this reasoning to one example. I have chosen a regulatory protein, one which is not really well understood, but which has certainly an important role in epigenetic regulation. The protein is called “Prickle”, and we will consider in particular the one known as “Prickle 1”. It has come to my attention trough an interesting paper linked by Dionisio (to whom go my sincere thanks and appreciation):

Planar polarization of Vangl2 in the vertebrate neural plate is controlled by Wnt and Myosin II signaling

In brief, Prickle is a molecule implied, among other things, in planar polarization events and in the regulation of neural system in vertebrates.

Let’s have a look at the protein. From Wikipedia:

Prickle is part of the non-canonical Wnt signaling pathway that establishes planar cell polarity.[2] A gain or loss of function of Prickle1 causes defects in the convergent extension movements of gastrulation.[3] In epithelial cells, Prickle2 establishes and maintains cell apical/basal polarity.[4] Prickle1 plays an important role in the development of the nervous system by regulating the movement of nerve cells.[5

And:

Mutations in Prickle genes can cause epilepsy in humans by perturbing Prickle function.[12] One mutation in Prickle1 gene can result in Prickle1-Related Progressive Myoclonus Epilepsy-Ataxia Syndrome.[2] This mutation disrupts the interaction between prickle-like 1 and REST, which results in the inability to suppress REST.[2] Gene knockdown of Prickle1 by shRNA or dominant-negative constructs results in decreased axonal and dendritic extension in neurons in the hippocampus.[5] Prickle1 gene knockdown in neonatal retina causes defects in axon terminals of photoreceptors and in inner and outer segments.[5]

The human protein is 831 AAs long.

Its structure is interesting: according to Uniprot, in the first part of the molecule we can recognize 4 domains:

1 PET domain:  AAs 14 – 122

3 LIM zinc-binding doamins:  AAs 124 – 313

In the rest of the sequence (AAs 314 – 831) no known domain is recognized.

Here is the FASTA sequence of the human protein, divided in the two parts (red: 4 domain part; blue: no domain part):

 

>sp|Q96MT3|PRIC1_HUMAN Prickle-like protein 1 OS=Homo sapiens GN=PRICKLE1 PE=1 SV=2
MPLEMEPKMSKLAFGCQRSSTSDDDSGCALEEYAWVPPGLRPEQIQLYFACLPEEKVPYV
NSPGEKHRIKQLLYQLPPHDNEVRYCQSLSEEEKKELQVFSAQRKKEALGRGTIKLLSRA
VMHAVCEQCGLKINGGEVAVFASRAGPGVCWHPSCFVCFTCNELLVDLIYFYQDGKIHCG
RHHAELLKPRCSACDEIIFADECTEAEGRHWHMKHFCCLECETVLGGQRYIMKDGRPFCC
GCFESLYAEYCETCGEHIGVDHAQMTYDGQHWHATEACFSCAQCKASLLGCPFLPKQGQI
YCSKTCSLGEDVHASDSSDSAFQSARSRDSRRSVRMGKSSRSADQCRQSLLLSPALNYKF
PGLSGNADDTLSRKLDDLSLSRQGTSFASEEFWKGRVEQETPEDPEEWADHEDYMTQLLL
KFGDKSLFQPQPNEMDIRASEHWISDNMVKSKTELKQNNQSLASKKYQSDMYWAQSQDGL
GDSAYGSHPGPASSRRLQELELDHGASGYNHDETQWYEDSLECLSDLKPEQSVRDSMDSL
ALSNITGASVDGENKPRPSLYSLQNFEEMETEDCEKMSNMGTLNSSMLHRSAESLKSLSS
ELCPEKILPEEKPVHLPVLRRSKSQSRPQQVKFSDDVIDNGNYDIEIRQPPMSERTRRRV
YNFEERGSRSHHHRRRRSRKSRSDNALNLVTERKYSPKDRLRLYTPDNYEKFIQNKSARE
IQAYIQNADLYGQYAHATSDYGLQNPGMNRFLGLYGEDDDSWCSSSSSSSDSEEEGYFLG
QPIPQPRPQRFAYYTDDLSSPPSALPTPQFGQRTTKSKKKKGHKGKNCIIS

So, this is a very interesting situation, which is not so rare. We have the first part of the sequence (313 AAs) which configures well known and conserved domains, while “the rest”(517 AAs)  is apparently not understood in terms of structure and function.

So, to better understand what all this could mean, I have blasted those two parts of the human molecule separately.

(Those who are not interested in the technical details, can choose here to go on to the conclusions  🙂 )

The first part of the sequence (AAs 1 – 313) shows no homologies in prokaryotes. So, we are apparently in the presence of domains which appear in eukaryotes.

In fungi, we find some significant, but weak, homologues. The best hit is an expect of 2e-21, with 56 identities and 93 positives (99.4 bits).

Multicellular organisms have definitely stronger homologies:

C. elegans:  144 identities, 186 positives, expect 2e-90 (282 bits)

Drosophila melanogaster:  202 identities, 244 positives, expect 5e-152 (447 bits)

Let’s go to non vertebrate chordates:

Cephalochordata (Branchiostoma floridae):  222 identities, 256 positives, expect 6e-165 (484 bits)

Tunicata (Ciona intestinalis): 196 identities, 241 positives, expect 2e-149 (442 bits)

Now, vertebrates:

Cartilaginous fishes (Callorhincus milii): 266 identities, 290 positives, expect 0.0 (588 bits)

Bony fishes (Lepisosteus oculatus): 274 identities, 292 positives, expect 0.0 (598 bits)

Mammals (Mouse): 309 identities, 312 positives, expect 0.0 (664 bits)

IOWs, what we see here is that the 4 domain part of the molecule, absent in prokaryotes, is already partially observable in single celled eukaryotes, and is strongly recognizable in all multicellular beings. It is interesting that homology with the human form is not very different between drosophila and non vertebrate chordates, while there is a significant increase in vertebrates, and practical identity already in mouse. That is a very common pattern, and IMO it can be explained as a mixed result of different functional constraints and neutral evolution in different time splits.

Now, let’s go to “the rest” of the molecule: AAs 314 – 831 (518 AAs). No recognizable domains here.

What is the behaviour of this sequence in natural history?

Again, let’s start again from the human sequence and blast it.

With Prokaryotes: no homologies

With Fungi: no homologies

C. elegans: no homologies

Drosophila melanogaster: no homologies

Let’s go to non vertebrate chordates:

Cephalochordata (Branchiostoma floridae):  no significant homologies

Tunicata (Ciona intestinalis): no significant homologies

So, there is no significant homology in the whole range of eukaryotes, excluding vertebrates and including chordates which are not vertebrates.

Now, what happens with vertebrates?

Here are the numbers:

Cartilaginous fishes (Callorhincus milii): 350 identities, 429 positives, expect 0.0 (597 bits)

Bony fishes (Lepisosteus oculatus): 396 identities, 446 positives, expect 0.0 (662 bits)

Mammals (Mouse): 466 identities, 491 positives, expect 0.0 (832 bits)

IOWs, what we see here is that the no domain part of the molecule is practically non existent in prokaryotes, in single celled eukaryotes and in all multicellular beings which are not vertebrates. In vertebrates, the sequence is not only present in practically all vertebrates, but it is also extremely conserved, from sharks to humans. So, we have a steep informational jump from non chordates and non vertebrate chordates, where the sequence is practically absent, to the very first vertebrates, where the sequence is already highly specific.

What does that mean from an ID point of view? It’s simple:

a) The sequence of 517 AAs which represents the major part of the human protein must be reasonably considered highly functional, because it is strongly conserved throughout vertebrate evolution. As we have said in the beginning, the only reasonable explanation for high conservation throughout a span of time which must be more than 400 million years long is the presence of strong functional constraints in the sequence.

b) The sequence and its function, whatever it may be (but it is probably an important regulatory function) is highly specific of vertebrates.

We have here a very good example of a part of a protein which practically appears in vertebrates while it is absent before, and which is reasonably highly functional in vertebrates.

So, to sum up:

  1. Prickle 1 is a functional protein which is found in all eukaryotes.
  2. The human sequence can be divided in two parts, with different properties.
  3. The first part, while undergoing evolutionary changes, is rather well conserved in all eukaryotes. Its function can be better understood, because it is made of known domains with known structure.
  4. The second part does not include any known domain or structure, and is practically absent in all eukaryotes except vertebrates.
  5. In vertebrates, it is highly conserved and almost certainly highly functional. Probably as a regulatory epigenetic sequence.
  6. For its properties, this second part, and its functional sequence, are a very reasonable object for a strong design inference.

 

I have added a graph to show better what is described in the conclusions, in particular the information jump in vertebrates for the second part of the sequence:

Graph3

Note: Thanks to the careful checking of Alicia Cartelli, I have corrected a couple of minor imprecisions in the data and the graph (see posts #83 and #136). Thank you, Alicia, for your commitment. The sense of the post, however, does not change.

Those who are interested in the evolutionary behaviour of protein Prickle 2 could give a look at my posts #127 and #137.

Comments
Zachriel You have no evidence. Phylogeny is not evidence, it is an interpretation. There are no direct observations of macroevolution. What can be observed is nowhere near Darwinian grand claims.EugeneS
April 4, 2016
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EugeneS: You must be joking. No.Zachriel
April 3, 2016
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"direct observations of evolution" You must be joking.EugeneS
April 3, 2016
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Alicia Cartelli: I’m impressed at your stupidity. And we're impressed by your being impressed at our stupidity! And we've missed your brilliant mind. Good to have you back.Mung
April 3, 2016
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EugeneS: What I am saying is simply that {evolution} cannot do much in the wild. Yes, that's your claim. EugeneS: In most cases of studies in the lab they are trying to sell artificial selection (guided search and active control) for natural selection (unguided search and passive control by elimination). In design, we often hold pieces into place where they have no function, until we can affix all the necessary parts. That's not what evolution experiments do. EugeneS: In order to produce statistically significant information gains in reality intelligence is absolutely needed. It does not happen otherwise. Yes, that's your claim. However, the evidence from phylogeny, and direct observations of evolution, both natural and artificial, contradict your claim.Zachriel
April 3, 2016
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Zachriel, You are ramming through an open door (or preaching to the choir, whichever you like more). I do not deny the phenomenon of evolution. What I am saying is simply that it cannot do much in the wild. In most cases of studies in the lab they are trying to sell artificial selection (guided search and active control) for natural selection (unguided search and passive control by elimination). In order to produce statistically significant information gains in reality intelligence is absolutely needed. It does not happen otherwise.EugeneS
April 3, 2016
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EugeneS: Under this OR there is ample room for philosophical maneuvering. Someone does a clever experiment involving active search and control of a system to steer it towards a goal state and then conveniently labels it ‘evolution demonstrated in action’. The definition concerned selection. Evolution is a process involving variation and selection. Biological evolution is an instance of this process. Origenes: where did these well-wrought fitness landscapes come from From symmetry. gpuccio: 1) You seem to agree that Szostak’s results do not apply to the “larger non experimental world”. The experiment shows that proteins are rare in sequence space but not exceedingly so, and that there are selectable pathways to improved function. The actual biological process probably didn't start from random sequences, but from already structured peptides. gpuccio: 2) Hayashi’s results apply to the “larger non experimental world” for what they are. They show that RV and NS can partially retrieve a function which has been artificially compromised, but not completely, but that they cannot retrieve the highly functional wildtype sequence. The experiment shows that proteins are rare in sequence space but not exceedingly so, and that there are selectable pathways to improved function. The actual biological process probably didn't start from random sequences, but from already structured peptides. gpuccio: 3) Stop equivocationg on the word “function”. ID is not about any impossibility of “novel function” to evolve, as you seem to imply. ID is, and always has been, about the impossibility of “new original complex function” A protein is complex, though certainly not a complex as a protein complex. gpuccio: It started as an ATP-binding protein, and ended as a strongly ATP-binding protein. That's right. The experiment shows that proteins are rare in sequence space but not exceedingly so, and that there are selectable pathways to improved function. The actual biological process probably didn't start from random sequences, but from already structured peptides.Zachriel
April 3, 2016
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Wow you guys have dragged things on for this long? I'm impressed at your stupidity. To add to the stupidity: “simple ATP binding does not provide any advantage” “Simple ATP binding is completely useless, and it subtracts ATP to the environment.” “They don’t, and you seem to agree that a weak ATP binding is no advantage to a living cell.” {“(it binds ATP, whcih can be defined as a function), but in no way is biologically functional, least of all naturally selectable (even in its “evolved” form, it does not confer any reproductive advantage).” “The final protein was still biologically useless, and not naturally selectable.” I’ll argue against any one of these statements.Alicia Cartelli
April 2, 2016
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Zachriel: "It *started* as an ATP-binding protein, the experiment shows there is a selectable pathway to improved function." It started as an ATP-binding protein, and ended as a strongly ATP-binding protein. The only function which was improved was ATP binding. The final protein was still biologically useless, and not naturally selectable.gpuccio
April 2, 2016
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Zachriel: So, let me understand: 1) You seem to agree that Szostak's results do not apply to the “larger non experimental world”. Then why do you and others continuously quote them in defense of your theory? Those results are not pertinent. If you were defending the esistence and validity of protein engineering, you would be welcome to quote that paper. As you are defending neo darwinism, which requires naturally selectable functions, you are not. 2) Hayashi's results apply to the “larger non experimental world” for what they are. They show that RV and NS can partially retrieve a function which has been artificially compromised, but not completely, but that they cannot retrieve the highly functional wildtype sequence. 3) Stop equivocationg on the word "function". ID is not about any impossibility of "novel function" to evolve, as you seem to imply. ID is, and always has been, about the impossibility of "new original complex function" to evolve in the absence of conscious intelligent intervention. Please, try to criticize our theory for what it is, not for what is convenient for you.gpuccio
April 2, 2016
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Zachriel: (...) the effectiveness of evolution depends on the shape of the fitness landscape.
If mutation, recombination, and selection only work well on certain kinds of fitness landscapes, yet most organisms are sexual, and hence use recombination, and all organisms use mutation as a search mechanism, where did these well-wrought fitness landscapes come from, such that evolution manages to produce the fancy stuff around us? (...) No one knows. ['Investigations', Kauffman]
Origenes
April 2, 2016
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Zachriel, "a natural or artificial process" A big OR indeed. Under this OR there is ample room for philosophical maneuvering. Someone does a clever experiment involving active search and control of a system to steer it towards a goal state and then conveniently labels it 'evolution demonstrated in action'. If one decides though to make a clear distinction between the two kinds of selection, there is a lot less left for evolution. Mung, Yes, an oxymoron it is indeed. Another popular evolutionary oxymoron is the phrase "natural process" ;)EugeneS
April 2, 2016
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What happens in Zachriel's program is directed evolution, which is itself an oxymoron.Mung
April 2, 2016
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EugeneS: Will you say there is a selectable path from wheat flour to the pie? Selection, meaning "a natural or artificial process that results or tends to result in the survival and propagation of some individuals or organisms but not of others with the result that the inherited traits of the survivors are perpetuated", doesn't apply to your example. The closest would be someone saying there's no way that flour (or, for comparison, feces) can make a pie, and someone providing a recipe (or not).Zachriel
April 2, 2016
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Zachriel, "There is a selectable path". Selectable by whom? You are playing word games again. Again you conflate natural with artificial selection. E.g. 1. Take 1 glassful of wheat flour. 2. Take 1 egg. 3. Add a pinch of salt. 4. Add a bit of sugar. 5. Mix together. 6. Put in the oven. 7. Bake for 5 minutes at 150 degrees. 8. Take the baked pie out of the oven and serve. Will you say there is a selectable path from wheat flour to the pie?EugeneS
April 2, 2016
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gpuccio: The “larger non experimental world” is not endowed with columns selecting ATP binding molecules. It can select ATP binding molecules only if they confer a reproductive advantage. No ones says that the artificial ATP-binding molecule would provide a reproductive advantage in an organism. Why would you think that? Certainly Szostak never made that claim. gpuccio: Must I remind you that Hayashi’s main result is that he could not find the wildtype functional form in his experimental context? But it provides a reproductive advantage, which you just said was definitive. gpuccio: Szostak found a pathway from some rare random sequences, appropriately selected artificially (see previous post) to an ATP binding protein It *started* as an ATP-binding protein, the experiment shows there is a selectable pathway to improved function. gpuccio: Nylonase “evolved” from penicillinases. And so? It shows that novel functions can evolve.Zachriel
March 30, 2016
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Zachriel: "There are selectable pathways from random sequences to functional proteins. Novel functions can evolve from existing proteins, such as nylonase. Proteins form into families, indicating that they share common ancestors." Which pathways? Szostak found a pathway from some rare random sequences, appropriately selected artificially (see previous post) to an ATP binding protein which may be functional in a large sense (it binds ATP, whcih can be defined as a function), but in no way is biologically functional, least of all naturally selectable (even in its "evolved" form, it does not confer any reproductive advantage). Nylonase "evolved" from penicillinases. And so? We have a few examples of molecular microevolution such as that. Lenski's Cit+ is another example. Must I remind you that the problem is complex functionality, and that a pathway should be something which generates complexity through stepwise simple variation? Isolated examples of simple variation, which is no way build new complex functions, are no example of "pathways". Finally, while it is certainly possible that some protein families share a common ancestor, there is no evidence of that for the 2000 superfamilies which constitute the observable proteome.gpuccio
March 30, 2016
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Zachriel: "You don’t apply your own instruction, but merely wave your hands. You have to show why the results, or the results of Hayashi et al., do not apply in the larger non-experimental world." I have done that repeatedly. Just because you don't agree, it does not mean that I have not done it. For the Szostak case, it's very simple. The "larger non experimental world" is not endowed with columns selecting ATP binding molecules. It can select ATP binding molecules only if they confer a reproductive advantage. They don't, and you seem to agree that a weak ATP binding is no advantage to a living cell. Therefore, Szostak's results do not apply to the "larger non experimental world". Hayashi is a competely different context, and has completely different meanings. Again, we have discussed it in detail. Must I remind you that Hayashi's main result is that he could not find the wildtype functional form in his experimental context?gpuccio
March 30, 2016
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EugeneS: all you have to do is demonstrate that selectable paths exist between different proteins. There are selectable pathways from random sequences to functional proteins. Novel functions can evolve from existing proteins, such as nylonase. Proteins form into families, indicating that they share common ancestors.Zachriel
March 29, 2016
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Now, Zachriel, all you have to do is demonstrate that selectable paths exist between different proteins. Good luck!EugeneS
March 29, 2016
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EugeneS: Function must exist before it is naturally selected. That is correct. EugeneS: Complex functions cannot be created by random modification from existing ones. That is incorrect. Evolution doesn't search the entire landscape, but only those regions that are connected. Consequently, the effectiveness of evolution depends on the shape of the fitness landscape.Zachriel
March 28, 2016
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Zachriel has no argument, only say-so and hand waving. Function must exist before it is naturally selected. Natural selection is an informationfilter so cannot create new information. Consequently it isonly chance thatthey have at their disposalto create information with. Cmplex functions cannot be created by random modification from existing ones. Therefore probabilistic barriers do exist. In the real world the only source of statistically significant amounts of novelty is intelligence. That is supported by observation.EugeneS
March 28, 2016
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EugeneS: Perhaps, a most striking illustration of such conflation was in an interview by Robert Pennock (Michigan State Uni) who was quoted as saying that the famous computer project Avida was not a simulation but an example of evolution. It is an example of evolution, but not a simulation of biological evolution.Zachriel
March 27, 2016
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"That’s something very easy to demonstrate in silico." All evolutionists conflate intelligent artificial selection with natural selection. Perhaps, a most striking illustration of such conflation was in an interview by Robert Pennock (Michigan State Uni) who was quoted as saying that the famous computer project Avida was not a simulation but an example of evolution. Whereas, in fact, even a simulation would be a huge exaggeration.EugeneS
March 27, 2016
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EugeneS: Says who? That's something very easy to demonstrate in silico. gpuccio: I am strongly reminding you that, when we derive conclusions from experiments, we have to be fully aware of the meaning of those restrictions, and of how they influence the results. Sure. Let's see how you apply that instruction. gpuccio: “On the other hand, you should be honest enough to admit that there is no evidence that proteins with a naturally selectable function exist in random libraries, at least at reasonable library sizes. Papers like Szostak’s do not support such a conclusion in any way.” You don't apply your own instruction, but merely wave your hands. You have to show why the results, or the results of Hayashi et al., do not apply in the larger non-experimental world. Querius: what are the chances that you’ll ever get a straight answer from Zachriel regarding the selective advantage of ATP? ATP-binding, which is probably what you meant, is a common cellular mechanism, so obviously provides an advantage to the cell. If you mean does the artificial protein provide an advantage within the context of a cell, the answer is no. It's not integrated with the rest of the cell's mechanisms, so would be detrimental. However, the experiment only attempts to show that sequences of amino acids that fold into functional proteins are rare, but not exceedingly so, within random sequence space. Are you claiming this is the only possible protein that might be found in random sequence space, that they happened to pick the only one that might exist?Zachriel
March 27, 2016
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gpuccio, Looking over the last ~600 postings, what are the chances that you'll ever get a straight answer from Zachriel regarding the selective advantage of ATP? Instead, you will continue to receive a stream of unsupported assertions from someone who exists in the plural. ;-) -QQuerius
March 26, 2016
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Zachriel: "You continue to ignore our argument. Experiments always artificially restrict variables in order to test other variables." I am ignoring nothing. I am strongly reminding you that, when we derive conclusions from experiments, we have to be fully aware of the meaning of those restrictions, and of how they influence the results. What is not clear in my simple statement? "On the other hand, you should be honest enough to admit that there is no evidence that proteins with a naturally selectable function exist in random libraries, at least at reasonable library sizes. Papers like Szostak’s do not support such a conclusion in any way." Do you agree, or not?gpuccio
March 26, 2016
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Zachriel, "Selection is very adept at balancing countervailing considerations." Says who? NS is not considering anything. It is not balancing anything. It is mere culling of complete no-hopers. It is only intelligence that can choose between alternatives for a pragmatic/quality of service goal. NS can't because it is neither intelligent not teleological. Nature (and consequently natural selection) cannot choose. Saying otherwise is like saying MS Windows is achievable exclusively by sorting. NS is incapable of producing novel functions. Like I say, all evolutionists conflate artificial selection with natural selection.EugeneS
March 26, 2016
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gpuccio: On the other hand, you should be honest enough to admit that there is no evidence that proteins with a naturally selectable function exist in random libraries, at least at reasonable library sizes. Papers like Szostak’s do not support such a conclusion in any way. You continue to ignore our argument. Experiments always artificially restrict variables in order to test other variables. gpuccio: Hayashi is a completely different context: it is about partial retrieval of an existing, and partially surviving function. We have already discussed the differences. Hayashi et al. is artificial selection, but the criterion is reproductive. And yes, it starts with a random sequence, a few of which increase the reproductive capability of the phage.Zachriel
March 26, 2016
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Zachriel: We agree on some important points. I absolutely agree that proteins with a definable function exist in random libraries, and that there is an artificially selectable pathway to improved function for them. Otherwise, how could bottom up protein engineering work? On the other hand, you should be honest enough to admit that there is no evidence that proteins with a naturally selectable function exist in random libraries, at least at reasonable library sizes. Papers like Szostak's do not support such a conclusion in any way. Hayashi is a completely different context: it is about partial retrieval of an existing, and partially surviving function. We have already discussed the differences.gpuccio
March 26, 2016
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