Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

How ID helps scientists: providing a framework for complexity

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ATP Synthase

COMPLEXITY =/=> EVOLUTION
Many Darwinists equate complexity with evolution. They see the fossil record of increasing complexity with time as precisely what defines Evolution. But is increasing complexity always a good thing? The history of computers is instructive.

Your iPhone and laptop computer are constructed using base-2, principally because flip-flops and early binary circuits were easy to make, even the earliest electronic memory based on circular ferrites was two-state. This base-2 necessity led to an explosion in the study of Boolean Algebra and binary logic in the 1950’s, which demonstrated that everything you could do in base-10 could be done in base-2.

By the late 50’s, the Russians were falling further and futher behind the US in computer technology, and being the math-nerds they are, they thought that perhaps binary computers were just the first step in a necessary evolution of computers. So if evolution was complexity, then the obvious next evolutionary step should be ternary logic, or 3-state systems. Rather than (-1,1), they built circuits that used (-1, 0, 1) as logic states.

After much effort, they had their first ternary computer up and running and programmed, and they could compare it to the US binary machines. They were abysmally slower. Not only so, but they were slower even if one emulated ternary logic in software on a binary machine–for you FORTRAN afficionados, this was the FOR66 arithmetic goto statement. I personally translated a 40-line FOR66 program CURFIT from Philip Bevington’s 1969 “Data Analysis” textbook into TurboPascal, and wrestled for a whole week with the ternary logic. It was devilish, ultra-compact, but a royal pain.  Five years later I was translating it into “C” (TurboPascal having died an early death) and read Kernighan and Richie’s classic text where they said about “clever” ternary algorithms the same thing that my poetry instructor had told me in college–“Kill all your little darlings.” Or as the Brits would say, “Too clever by half.”

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Comments
CharlieD you claim: "You do realize that evolutionary biology is its own scientific field right? You can belittle it all you want but there is more scientific evidence that supports evolution than you can comprehend." You certainly are right CharlieD, evolutionary biology is in its own completely separate scientific field as can be for no one can seem to find a way to rigorously test its claims (some would call lack of testability, "pseudoscience"): “On the other hand, I disagree that Darwin’s theory is as `solid as any explanation in science.; Disagree? I regard the claim as preposterous. Quantum electrodynamics is accurate to thirteen or so decimal places; so, too, general relativity. A leaf trembling in the wrong way would suffice to shatter either theory. What can Darwinian theory offer in comparison?” (Berlinski, D., “A Scientific Scandal?: David Berlinski & Critics,” Commentary, July 8, 2003) “nobody to date has yet found a demarcation criterion according to which Darwin can be described as scientific” – Imre Lakatos (November 9, 1922 – February 2, 1974) a philosopher of mathematics and science, quote as stated in 1973 LSE Scientific Method Lecturebornagain77
May 30, 2013
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You do realize that evolutionary biology is its own scientific field right? You can belittle it all you want but there is more scientific evidence that supports evolution than you can comprehend. Wow so some WWII doctor didnt need it to study antibiotics...therefore it must be useless! Nice. Youre to used to dealing with people who have only a basic knowledge in Biology. I assure you I am not one of these people and when someone has this knowledge it is quite easy to see through your pitiful arguments. This entire site is nothing but anti-science propaganda, hoping to cast doubt on the scientific community.CharlieD
May 30, 2013
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And CharlieD, let's not forget Darwinism's horrendously negative impact on society as a whole:
How Darwin's Theory Changed the World - Rejection of Judeo-Christian values Excerpt: Weikart explains how accepting Darwinist dogma shifted society’s thinking on human life: “Before Darwinism burst onto the scene in the mid-nineteenth century, the idea of the sanctity of human life was dominant in European thought and law (though, as with all ethical principles, not always followed in practice). Judeo-Christian ethics proscribed the killing of innocent human life, and the Christian churches explicitly forbade murder, infanticide, abortion, and even suicide. “The sanctity of human life became enshrined in classical liberal human rights ideology as ‘the right to life,’ which according to John Locke and the United States Declaration of Independence, was one of the supreme rights of every individual” (p. 75). Only in the late nineteenth and especially the early twentieth century did significant debate erupt over issues relating to the sanctity of human life, especially infanticide, euthanasia, abortion, and suicide. It was no mere coincidence that these contentious issues emerged at the same time that Darwinism was gaining in influence. Darwinism played an important role in this debate, for it altered many people’s conceptions of the importance and value of human life, as well as the significance of death” (ibid.). http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn85/darwin-theory-changed-world.htm From Darwin To Hitler - Richard Weikart - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_5EwYpLD6A
Moreover CharlieD, as shocking as it may be for you to learn, modern science was born out of, and is continuously dependent on, Theistic presuppositions:
The Historical Alliance of Christianity and Science - Kenneth Richard Samples Excerpted quote: "Modern science was conceived, and born, and flourished in the matrix of Christian theism. Only liberal doses of self-deception and double-think, I believe, will permit it to flourish in the context of Darwinian naturalism." ~ Alvin Plantinga http://www.apu.edu/cris/pdfs/historical_alliance.pdf
In fact CharlieD, Darwinism, if true, would undermine the epistemological foundation of science itself:
Alvin Plantinga - Evolutionary Argument against Naturalism - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r34AIo-xBh8
Thus CharlieD, you may laugh at the notion that ID can help scientists, but the fact is that it does help, and non-design thinking hinders scientists.bornagain77
May 30, 2013
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CharlieD you snark at Dr Sheldon's suggestion:
How ID helps scientists? Ha good one! You guys get me every time! I know if I need a good laugh I can always find one here.
CharlieD you may find it funny, and obviously false, that 'Design thinking' can help scientists, but you would be sadly mistaken in that thought. To demonstrate this mistake in your thinking, let's see what breakthroughs in science the converse of 'Design thinking', i.e. your Darwinian presumption that life is/was not designed, has led to.
"Certainly, my own research with antibiotics during World War II received no guidance from insights provided by Darwinian evolution. Nor did Alexander Fleming's discovery of bacterial inhibition by penicillin. I recently asked more than 70 eminent researchers if they would have done their work differently if they had thought Darwin's theory was wrong. The responses were all the same: No. I also examined the outstanding biodiscoveries of the past century: the discovery of the double helix; the characterization of the ribosome; the mapping of genomes; research on medications and drug reactions; improvements in food production and sanitation; the development of new surgeries; and others. I even queried biologists working in areas where one would expect the Darwinian paradigm to have most benefited research, such as the emergence of resistance to antibiotics and pesticides. Here, as elsewhere, I found that Darwin's theory had provided no discernible guidance, but was brought in, after the breakthroughs, as an interesting narrative gloss. In the peer-reviewed literature, the word "evolution" often occurs as a sort of coda to academic papers in experimental biology. Is the term integral or superfluous to the substance of these papers? To find out, I substituted for "evolution" some other word – "Buddhism," "Aztec cosmology," or even "creationism." I found that the substitution never touched the paper's core. This did not surprise me. From my conversations with leading researchers it had became clear that modern experimental biology gains its strength from the availability of new instruments and methodologies, not from an immersion in historical biology.,, Darwinian explanations for such things are often too supple: Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive – except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed – except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery.,, Darwinian evolution – whatever its other virtues – does not provide a fruitful heuristic in experimental biology. This becomes especially clear when we compare it with a heuristic framework such as the atomic model, which opens up structural chemistry and leads to advances in the synthesis of a multitude of new molecules of practical benefit. None of this demonstrates that Darwinism is false. It does, however, mean that the claim that it is the cornerstone of modern experimental biology will be met with quiet skepticism from a growing number of scientists in fields where theories actually do serve as cornerstones for tangible breakthroughs. - Philip S. Skell (the late) Emeritus Evan Pugh Professor at Pennsylvania State University http://www.discovery.org/a/2816 Podcasts and Article of Dr. Skell http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/11/giving_thanks_for_dr_philip_sk040981.html 'It might be thought, therefore, that evolutionary arguments would play a large part in guiding biological research, but this is far from the case. It is difficult enough to study what is happening now. To figure out exactly what happened in evolution is even more difficult.' - Francis Crick - co-discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule in 1953 - atheist Science Owes Nothing To Darwinian Evolution - Jonathan Wells - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4028096 Where are the Scientific Breakthroughs Due to Evolution? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSYoWHaBIwI
In fact, 'non-design thinking', neo-Darwinism, besides failing to provide a fruitful heuristic in experimental biology, actually hinders biological research. This unnecessary hindrance that Darwinian thinking places on biological research is perhaps best illustrated by the JUNK DNA fiasco,,
Is Panda's Thumb Suppressing the Truth about Junk DNA? Excerpt: Dr. Pellionisz sent me an e-mail regarding his recent experiences at Panda's Thumb. Pellionisz reports that Panda's Thumb is refusing to print his stories about how he has personally witnessed how the Darwinian consensus rejected suggestions that "junk" DNA had function. Dr. Pellionisz's e-mail recounts how some rogue Darwinian biologists have believed that "junk" DNA had function, but it also provides historical proof that this went against the prevailing consensus, and thus such suggestions that "junk"-DNA had function were ignored or rejected by most Darwinian scientists. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/07/is_pandas_thumb_supressing_the003947.html
It seems obvious to me, but you tell me CharlieD, did presupposing non-functionality help or hinder research in regards to 'Junk' DNA?
Junk No More: ENCODE Project Nature Paper Finds "Biochemical Functions for 80% of the Genome" - Casey Luskin September 5, 2012 Excerpt: The Discover Magazine article further explains that the rest of the 20% of the genome is likely to have function as well: "And what's in the remaining 20 percent? Possibly not junk either, according to Ewan Birney, the project's Lead Analysis Coordinator and self-described "cat-herder-in-chief". He explains that ENCODE only (!) looked at 147 types of cells, and the human body has a few thousand. A given part of the genome might control a gene in one cell type, but not others. If every cell is included, functions may emerge for the phantom proportion. "It's likely that 80 percent will go to 100 percent," says Birney. "We don't really have any large chunks of redundant DNA. This metaphor of junk isn't that useful."" http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/09/junk_no_more_en_1064001.html
Closer to home, it is found that Darwinism is useless in medical diagnostics:
Darwinian Medicine and Proximate and Evolutionary Explanations - Michael Egnor - neurosurgeon - June 2011 http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/06/darwinian_medicine_and_proxima047701.html
In fact, as to the somewhat minor extent evolutionary reasoning has influenced medical diagnostics, it has led to much ‘medical malpractice’ in the past:
Evolution's "vestigial organ" argument debunked Excerpt: "The appendix, like the once 'vestigial' tonsils and adenoids, is a lymphoid organ (part of the body's immune system) which makes antibodies against infections in the digestive system. Believing it to be a useless evolutionary 'left over,' many surgeons once removed even the healthy appendix whenever they were in the abdominal cavity. Today, removal of a healthy appendix under most circumstances would be considered medical malpractice" (David Menton, Ph.D., "The Human Tail, and Other Tales of Evolution," St. Louis MetroVoice , January 1994, Vol. 4, No. 1). "Doctors once thought tonsils were simply useless evolutionary leftovers and took them out thinking that it could do no harm. Today there is considerable evidence that there are more troubles in the upper respiratory tract after tonsil removal than before, and doctors generally agree that simple enlargement of tonsils is hardly an indication for surgery" (J.D. Ratcliff, Your Body and How it Works, 1975, p. 137). The tailbone, properly known as the coccyx, is another supposed example of a vestigial structure that has been found to have a valuable function—especially regarding the ability to sit comfortably. Many people who have had this bone removed have great difficulty sitting. http://www.ucg.org/science/god-science-and-bible-evolutions-vestigial-organ-argument-debunked/
bornagain77
May 30, 2013
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By the way. There is NO evidence that this creature is less complex then that creature. If so then pick the least complex one and recreate it using materials in your backyard. Further the idea of simple to complex is a geological claim and not a biological one even if it was true. Come on ID'ers. Evidence please. These less complex creatures Darwin talked about were suited to their calling. they are not less complex. A neck don't make you complicated.Robert Byers
May 29, 2013
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Hmm, pass. Your buddies here give me more than enough material.CharlieD
May 29, 2013
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If you want laughs I could expose myself to you. Want to meet?Mung
May 29, 2013
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How ID helps scientists? Ha good one! You guys get me every time! I know if I need a good laugh I can always find one here.CharlieD
May 29, 2013
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C is too complexMung
May 29, 2013
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