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Is free will dead?

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Professor Jerry Coyne has written an op-ed piece for USA Today entitled, Why you don’t really have free will. The kind of free will that Professor Coyne is concerned with is the kind that ordinary people believe in: “If you were put in the same position twice — if the tape of your life could be rewound to the exact moment when you made a decision, with every circumstance leading up to that moment the same and all the molecules in the universe aligned in the same way — you could have chosen differently.” Coyne is adamant that any lesser kind of freedom is not worth having:

As Sam Harris noted in his book Free Will, all the attempts to harmonize the determinism of physics with a freedom of choice boil down to the claim that “a puppet is free so long as he loves his strings.”

In other words, Coyne is an incompatibilist: he thinks that determinism is incompatible with the existence of free will. Here I agree with him, for reasons which I have discussed in a previous post. Professor Coyne’s contra-causal definition of free will also sounds fairly sensible to me: if freedom means anything at all, it surely means that we could have done otherwise than what we did, when we made our choices.

Unlike Professor Coyne, I firmly believe in free will – and by that, I mean the libertarian variety. In this post, I intend to argue that the scientific arguments which Coyne marshals against free will are deficient. I will also contend that in order for the proper scientific investigation of free will to proceed, the issue of free will needs to be divorced from the philosophical question of whether our voluntary acts are performed by an immaterial soul or by the brain. A materialist can consistently believe in libertarian free will, as did President Thomas Jefferson, who conceived of thought as an action of matter. In this post, I’ll endeavor to explain how free will might work, and I’ll advance a tentative account which is compatible with (but does not require) materialism.

I would like to state for the record that I am not a materialist, for reasons that I’ve explained here. However, my arguments against materialism are based not on the nature of the will as such, but on the actions of the human intellect: they purport to show that it is impossible in principle for the operations of the intellect to be explained in a materialistic way. If these arguments turn out to be invalid, then one could still consistently hold that free will resides in the brain, and not in an immaterial soul.

Does physics rule out free will?

Without further ado, let’s have a look at Professor Coyne’s arguments against free will. Surprisingly, there are only two. One argument is based on the laws of physics:

The first is simple: we are biological creatures, collections of molecules that must obey the laws of physics. All the success of science rests on the regularity of those laws, which determine the behavior of every molecule in the universe. Those molecules, of course, also make up your brain – the organ that does the “choosing.”

What Coyne is arguing here is that modern science presupposes determinism, which is incompatible with libertarian free will. But one can believe in the reality of laws of physics without believing that they determine the behavior of particles. Laws may merely constrain particles’ behavior, which is another matter entirely.

I also find it strange that proponents of determinism, when they put forward this argument, seldom tell us exactly which laws of physics imply the truth of determinism. The law of the conservation of mass-energy certainly doesn’t; and neither does the law of the conservation of momentum. Newtonian mechanics is popularly believed to imply determinism, but this belief was exploded over two decades ago by John Earman (A Primer on Determinism, 1986, Dordrecht: Reidel, chapter III). In 2006, Dr. John Norton put forward a simple illustration which is designed to show that violations of determinism can arise very easily in a system governed by Newtonian physics (The Dome: An Unexpectedly Simple Failure of Determinism. 2006 Philosophy of Science Association 20th Biennial Meeting (Vancouver), PSA 2006 Symposia.) In Norton’s example, a mass sits on a dome in a gravitational field. After remaining unchanged for an arbitrary time, it spontaneously moves in an arbitrary direction. The mass’s indeterministic motion is clearly incompatible with Newtonian mechanics. Norton describes his example as an exceptional case of indeterminism arising in a Newtonian system with a finite number of degrees of freedom. (On the other hand, indeterminism is generic for Newtonian systems with infinitely many degrees of freedom.)

Sometimes the Principle of Least Action is said to imply determinism. But since the wording of the principle shows that it only applies to systems in which total mechanical energy (kinetic energy plus potential energy) is conserved, and as it deals with the trajectory of particles in motion, I fail to see how it would apply to collisions between particles, in which mechanical energy is not necessarily conserved. At best, it seems that the universe is fully deterministic only if particles behave like perfectly elastic billiard balls – which is only true in an artificially simplified version of the cosmos. Perhaps I’m wrong here – but if I am, then I think it’s about time the proponents of determinism made their case more clearly, instead of resorting to vague appeals to “science.”

Does quantum indeterminacy have any implications for free will?

I haven’t even mentioned quantum indeterminacy so far. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle has been interpreted by many scientists as implying that determinism does not hold at the sub-microscopic level (although I should mention that there are perfectly consistent deterministic interpretations of quantum mechanics). In recent decades, a number of philosophers and scientists have suggested that the workings of the human brain may not be deterministic either, leaving the door open to some kind of freedom. However, the reaction to this proposal from most scientists has been negative: the physicist Max Planck argued that if it were true, then “the logical result would be to reduce the human will to an organ which would be subject to the sway of mere blind chance” – and hence, not free.

But Planck’s response is flawed on two counts. First, all it shows is that quantum indeterminacy is not a sufficient condition for human freedom. The question we are addressing here, however, is whether it could be a necessary condition.

Second, Planck’s response implicitly assumes that a non-deterministic system is “subject to the sway of mere blind chance” – and nothing else. However, it is easy to show that a non-deterministic system may be subject to specific constraints, while still remaining random. These constraints may be imposed externally, or alternatively, they may be imposed from above, as in top-down causation. To see how this might work, suppose that my brain performs the high-level act of making a choice, and that this act imposes a constraint on the quantum micro-states of tiny particles in my brain. This doesn’t violate quantum randomness, because a selection can be non-random at the macro level, but random at the micro level. The following two rows of digits will serve to illustrate my point.

1 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 1
0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 0 1

The above two rows of digits were created by a random number generator. The digits in some of these columns add up to 0; some add up to 1; and some add up to 2.

Now suppose that I impose the non-random macro requirement: keep the columns whose sum equals 1, and discard the rest. I now have:

1 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1
0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 1 0

Each row is still random (at the micro level), but I have now imposed a non-random macro-level constraint on the system as a whole (at the macro level). That, I would suggest, what happens when I make a choice.

Top-down causation and free will

What I am proposing, in brief, is that top-down (macro–>micro) causation is real and fundamental (i.e. irreducible to lower-level acts). For if causation is always bottom-up (micro–>macro) and never top-down, or alternatively, if top-down causation is real, but only happens because it has already been determined by some preceding occurrence of bottom-up causation, then our actions are simply the product of our body chemistry – in which case they are not free, since they are determined by external circumstances which lie beyond our control. But if top-down causation is real and fundamental, then a person’s free choices, which are macroscopic events that occur in the brain at the highest level, can constrain events in the brain occurring at a lower, sub-microscopic level, and these constraints then can give rise to neuro-muscular movements, which occur in accordance with that person’s will. (For instance, in the case I discussed above, relating to rows of ones and zeroes, the requirement that the columns must add up to 1 might result in to the neuro-muscular act of raising my left arm, while the requirement that they add up to 2 might result in to the act of raising my right arm.)

Thus we can mount a good defense of human freedom by hypothesizing that human choices (which are holistic acts that are properly ascribed to persons) are capable of influencing lower-level events in the human body, such as activities taking place in nerve cells when they process incoming signals. Additionally, we may hypothesize that the operation of nerve cells is not always deterministic, or even deterministic most of the time with occasional random disturbances, but that fundamental, higher-level actions occurring in the brain (i.e. human choices) can constrain the microscopic behavior of nerve cells, and that these constraints, when aggregated over a large number of nerve cells, can result in neuro-muscular movements.

Readers will notice that in the foregoing account, I have said nothing about an immaterial soul. For my own part, I happen to believe in one, as I see no way in which a bodily process of any kind – whether high-level or low-level – can be said to possess meaning in its own right, as our beliefs and desires clearly do. I conclude that a thought cannot be identified with any kind of bodily process, and that a volition which is based on that thought cannot be equated with any physical process either. If I’m right, then we have to embrace some kind of dualism, as I proposed in a post entitled, Why I think the Interaction Problem is Real. But if this philosophical argument for the immateriality of the human intellect turns out to be mistaken, then we will simply have to say, as the philosopher John Locke did, that it is possible for “matter fitly disposed” to think and choose, after all – an assertion which scandalized some of his contemporaries, but which is held by some Christians (e.g. Jehovah’s Witnesses).

Do laboratory experiments rule out the existence of free will?

Professor Coyne’s second argument against human freedom is an experimental one: our choices are predictable, several seconds before we consciously make them:

Recent experiments involving brain scans show that when a subject “decides” to push a button on the left or right side of a computer, the choice can be predicted by brain activity at least seven seconds before the subject is consciously aware of having made it.

Well, let’s have a look at these experiments, shall we? The following video of a “No free will” experiment by John-Dylan Haynes (Professor at the Bernstein Center for Computational Neuroscience Berlin), appears to refute the notion of free will. According to the video, an outside observer, monitoring my brain, can tell which of two buttons I’m going to push, six seconds before I consciously decide to do so. But there are several things about this experiment that Professor Coyne left out of his op-ed piece.

Unimpressive results

First, as Coyne acknowledges in a post on his Web site, Why Evolution Is True, entitled, The no-free-will experiment, avec video, “the ‘predictability’ of the results is not perfect: it seems to be around 60%, better than random prediction but nevertheless statistically significant.” Sorry, but I don’t think that’s very impressive. What we have here is the simplest of all possible choices – “Press the button in your left hand or the button in your right hand” – being monitored by an MRI scanner, while a trained professional is looking on. If the outside observer guessed the subject’s choice, he’d be right 50% of the time; with the aid of an MRI scanner, the accuracy rises to 60%. This is the experiment that’s supposed to shatter my belief in free will? I’m absolutely devastated.

Adina Roskies, a neuroscientist and philosopher who works on free will at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, isn’t too impressed with Professor Haynes’ experiment either. “All it suggests,” she says, “is that there are some physical factors that influence decision-making”, which shouldn’t be surprising. That’s quite different from claiming that you can see the brain making its mind up before it is consciously aware of doing so.

Reflection was ruled out at the start

Second, the experiment was deliberately designed to exclude the possibility of reflection. In the experiment, as narrator Marcus du Sautoy (Professor of Mathematics at the University of Oxford) puts it, “I have to randomly decide, and then immediately press, one of these left or right buttons.” Now, most people would say that a reflective weighing up of options is integral to the notion of free will. There is a philosophical difference between liberty of spontaneity – as exemplified by the phrase, “free as a bird” – and liberty of choice, which is peculiar to rational animals like ourselves. Acting on impulse is not the same as making a free decision.

The choice was artificial, in several ways

Third, the experiment relates to an artificial choice which is stripped of several features which normally characterize our free choices:

(a) it’s completely arbitrary. It doesn’t matter which button the subject decides to press. Typically, our choices are about things that really do matter – e.g. who the next President of the United States will be.

(b) it’s binary: left or right. In real life, however, we usually choose between multiple options – often, between an indefinitely large number of options – for example, when we ask ourselves, “What career shall I pursue after I graduate?”

(c) it’s zero-dimensional. Normally, when we make choices, there are multiple axes along which we can evaluate the desirability of the various options – e.g. when deciding which city to move to, we might consider factors such as weather, proximity of family members and income earning opportunities. One city might have ideal weather but few job opportunities; another may be close to where family members live, but bitterly cold. In the experiment described above, there were no axes along which we could weigh up the desirability of the two options (left or right button), as there was literally nothing to compare.

(d) it’s impersonal. We are social animals, and most of our choices relate to other people – e.g. “Whom shall I marry?” Pressing a button, on the other hand, is a solitary act.

(e) it contains no reference to second-order mental states. Typically, when we choose, we give careful consideration to what other people will think of our choice, and how they’ll feel about it – e.g. “What will people think if I wear a clown suit on Casual Friday, and will my boss be annoyed?” To entertain these thoughts, we have to be capable of second-order mental states: thoughts about other people’s thoughts. These are a vital part of what makes us human: although chimps certainly know what other individuals want, there’s no good evidence to date that chimps have beliefs about other individuals’ beliefs. Humans may be unique in having what psychologists refer to as a theory of mind.

(f) it’s future-blind. The choice of whether to press the left button or the right button is a here-and-now choice, with no reference to future consequences. In real life, choices are seldom divorced from consequences, and we fail to advert to these consequences at our peril. For example, choosing to party the night before an exam may ruin your career prospects forever.

(g) it has no feedback mechanism. Not only do choices typically have consequences, but the results of our choices are usually communicated back to us in a way that influences our future behavior. Think of the experience of learning to ride a bicycle, when you were a child. And now compare this with the button-pressing example: no feedback, nothing learned by the subject.

So, what can the predictability (60% of the time) of an arbitrary, binary, impersonal choice, which involves no weighing up, no worries about what other people might think, no thought of the future and no feedback, possibly tell us about the existence of free will in human beings? Absolutely nothing.

What about “free won’t”?

Fourth, the experiment described by Coyne made no attempt to evaluate Benjamin Libet’s hypothesis of “free won’t”: “while we may not be able to choose our actions, we can choose to veto our actions.” What happens if the subject is permitted to decide in advance which button they will press, but is also free to change their mind at the last minute? Can a trained outside observer, who is monitoring an MRI scanner, pick up this sudden change of mind on the subject’s part? Coyne does not tell us. He writes that “from the standpoint of physics, instigating an action is no different from vetoing one, and in fact involves the same regions of the brain.” Fine; but that does not tell us whether a veto is in fact predictable in advance. Only experiments can demonstrate whether this is true or not.

Can free will be meaningfully attributed to acts performed over a short time period?

A fifth criticism that can be made of Haynes’ experiment is that the time scale involved makes it meaningless to speak of free will or its absence, just as it would be meaningless to ask what color a hydrogen atom is. Typically, our free choices are preceded by an extended period of deliberation, followed by the brain’s preparation for the execution of a bodily movement, followed by activation of specialized areas of the brain which are responsible for the contraction of specific muscles in the body. It could therefore be argued that freedom is a property which does not attach to the decision to act here and now, but to the entire process leading up to the decision. If this criticism is correct, then those who argue against free will based on experiments like the one recently conducted by Professor Haynes, are simply making a category mistake.

Do magnetic fields interfere with free will?

Finally, we need to consider the possibility that magnetic fields themselves may actually interfere with the exercise of free choice, which would invalidate the experiment described by Coyne. After all, scientists have already shown that they can alter people’s moral judgments simply by disrupting a specific area of the brain with magnetic pulses (Liane Young et al. “Disruption of the right temporoparietal junction with transcranial magnetic stimulation reduces the role of beliefs in moral judgments.” In PNAS April 13, 2010 vol. 107 no. 15, 6753-6758, doi: 10.1073/pnas.0914826107). In another experiment, researchers found that it was possible to influence which hand people move by stimulating frontal regions that are involved in movement planning using transcranial magnetic stimulation in either the left or right hemisphere of the brain. Curiously, the subjects continued to report that they believed their choice of hand had been made freely. (Ammon, K. and Gandevia, S.C. (1990) “Transcranial magnetic stimulation can influence the selection of motor programmes.” Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry 53: 705–707.)

To be sure, transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a much more invasive procedure than lying inside an MRI scanner, as the subject did in Professor Haynes’ experiment: in the case of TMS, a coil is held near a person’s head to generate magnetic field impulses that stimulate underlying brain cells in a way that that can make someone perform a specific action. But I would argue that if powerful magnetic fields can temporarily disrupt free choices, then it should be no surprise that the “choice” made by a person while inside an MRI scanner turns out to be predictable more often than not. Thus the 60% accuracy claimed for Professor Haynes’ experiment, far from showing that human choices are predictable, may only be a measure of how strongly even an MRI scanner can bias the normal exercise of our free will.

But the most damning evidence of all comes from the Wikipedia article on functional magnetic resonance imaging, which makes the following admissions:

While the static magnetic field has no known long-term harmful effect on biological tissue, it can cause damage by pulling in nearby heavy metal objects, converting them to projectiles…

Scanning sessions also subject participants to loud high-pitched noises from Lorentz forces induced in the gradient coils by the rapidly switching current in the powerful static field. The gradient switching can also induce currents in the body causing nerve tingling. Implanted medical devices such as pacemakers could malfunction because of these currents. The radio-frequency field of the excitation coil may heat up the body, and this has to be monitored more carefully in those running a fever, the diabetic, and those with circulatory problems. Local burning from metal necklaces and other jewelry is also a risk. (Italics mine – VJT.)

So these magnetic currents are strong enough to turn metal objects into projectiles, make metal necklaces burn people wearing them, heat up people’s bodies and make their nerves tingle, and even cause pacemakers to malfunction? Why, I have to ask, are we using devices like this to study free will? I could not think of a better illustration of the maxim, “To observe is to disturb,” if I tried.

Does alien hand syndrome disprove free will?

In a recent article entitled, Does alien hand syndrome refute free will? (Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity, Trinity International University, 15 December 2010), Dr. William Cheshire Jr. discusses the strange phenomenon of “alien hand syndrome,” which refers to “a variety of rare neurological conditions in which one extremity, most commonly the left hand, is perceived as not belonging to the person or as having a will of its own, together with observable uncontrollable behavior independent of conscious control.” The seemingly purposeful movements of the alien hand are more than mere spasms: they are goal-directed. For example, while playing checkers, one patient’s left hand made an odd move which he did not wish to make. He corrected the move with his right hand, but to his great annoyance, his left hand then repeated the same odd move.

In his article, Dr. Cheshire explains why he disagrees with psychologists such as Daniel Wegner, who cite these experiments as proof that conscious will is an illusion. He points out that there are important neurological differences between the movements of an alien hand and that of a hand which is normally connected to its motor cortex:

In a patient with a right parietal stroke, alien left hand movements correlated with isolated activation by intentional planning systems of the right primary motor cortex, presumably released from conscious control. Voluntary hand movements, by contrast, activated a distributed network involving not only the primary motor cortex but also premotor areas in the inferior frontal gyrus.

Dr. Cheshire also points out that alien hands have never been known to execute a complex sequence of actions, such as writing a letter. He argues that “the curious gestures of the alien hand and their ostensibly materialistic philosophical implications have not rendered free will obsolete,” and concludes: “To acknowledge that alien hand action is not freely willed would not be to conclude that all nontrivial human action is determined.”

What would disprove free will?

What would create problems for the idea of free will is an experiment showing that we could make a person perform an act – preferably a complex one that requires some planning and control – that they thought was a genuine free choice of theirs, simply by stimulating their brain. Research conducted a few decades ago by the late neurosurgeon Wilder Penfield seemed to point very heavily the other way. His attempts to produce thoughts or decisions by stimulating people’s brains were a total failure: while stimulation could induce flashbacks and vividly evoke old memories, it never generated intentions or choices. On some occasions, Penfield was able to make a patient’s arm go up by stimulating the motor cortex their brain with an electric probe, causing the patient’s arm to move. When Penfield asked the patient, “What’s happening?”, the patient replied, “My arm is moving up.” When Penfield asked, “Are you moving your arm?”, the patient said, “No, it is moving up on its own.” Penfield then said, “OK, now I am going to continue to stimulate your brain, but I want you to make a choice, and not let it go up. Move it in a different direction.” The patient was finally able to resist the movement. (See The Mystery of the Mind: A Critical Study of Consciousness and the Human Brain. Princeton University Press, 1975.) What this suggests, at the very least, is that although local stimulation of the brain causes the body to move the arm one way, it is possible for a higher-level executive decision by the person whose brain is being stimulated to overwrite the local commands of the brain to the body.

However, in a recent article entitled, Human volition: towards a neuroscience of will (Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 9, pp. 934-946, 2008), Patrick Haggard reported that directly stimulating the pre-Supplementary Motor Area (pre-SMA) in the brain caused volunteers to report feeling an urge to move the corresponding limb, and sufficient stimulation of that same area caused actual movement of the limb. In one experiment, a patient spotted an apple that belonged to the examiner, and a knife left on purpose on a corner of the testing desk. He peeled the apple and ate it. The examiner asked, “Why did you eat my apple?” The patient replied, “Well, … it was there.” “Are you hungry?” asked the examiner. “No. Well, a bit,” said the patient. “Have you not just finished eating?” “Yes.” “Is this apple yours?” “No.” “So why are you eating it?” “Because it is here.” At first blush, this seems to suggest that the intention to peel and eat an apple can be induced simply by stimulating the brain in the pre-SMA – which runs counter to the idea of free will. Haggard himself acknowledges, though, that the proper function of this area of the brain is to inhibit actions rather than to cause them. It could therefore be argued that stimulation of the pre-SMA interferes with its normal function of inhibiting urges to move, resulting in uninhibited actions which the patient nevertheless found it difficult to account for: he ate the apple “because it was there.” In any case, this is not a true example of intentional agency: typically, an agent is able to supply specific reasons for his or her choices, and in this case, the patient was not.

In a follow-up paper, Moore et al. showed that the subjective feeling of control when performing an intentional act, which can be measured as a temporal linkage between actions and their effects, depends at least partly on the pre-SMA. The authors suggested that the pre-SMA makes a special contribution to sense of agency, housing the predictive mechanisms contributing to the sense of agency. (“Disrupting the experience of control in the human brain: pre-supplementary motor area contributes to the sense of agency.” Proceedings of the Royal Society B, 22 August 2010, vol. 277 no. 1693, pp. 2503-2509. doi: 10.1098/rspb.2010.0404.)

These findings are welcome news to people interested in the mechanics of free will. It should hardly be surprising that several regions of the brain are involved in decision making, and that interference with one or more of these regions can distort our sense of agency in very odd ways. That, however, does not mean we are not free; all it means is that we are highly complex beings.

A final comment that I would like to make concerns the need for critics of free will to avoid attacking straw men. Scientific studies which purport to discredit the popular notion of free will frequently characterize the concept in dualistic terms, whereas I have argued above that dualism is not essential to the notion of free will. Additionally, many studies incorporate very naive assumptions about the supposedly incorrigible access that I should have to my mental states, if my will is genuinely free. However, there is no reason for a dualist – let alone a proponent of libertarian free will – to adopt such a naive view. Even if the human mind is immaterial, that does not automatically mean that it cannot be fooled into thinking that it made a decision when it didn’t, or vice versa. Whatever version of free will science uncovers in the end, it is likely to be a highly sophisticated one.

Conclusion

I conclude that reports of the death of free will are “greatly exaggerated” (to borrow a phrase from Mark Twain). Before scientists investigate the truth or falsity of mind-body dualism (whether of the Cartesian or Aristotelian variety), they need to focus their attention on the possibility of top-down causation occurring within the brain, where macro-level executive decisions impose a constraint on non-deterministic events taking place in nerve cells at the micro-level, which, when aggregated, results in a specific pattern of neuro-muscular behavior. In this post, I have outlined how this kind of causation would make free will possible.

Is free will a viable concept or not? What do readers think?

Comments
M. Holcumbrink, Thank you for your post. I've been thinking about controlling one's desires, and it seems that over a period of years, one can accomplish this, by mentally programming oneself, so to speak. Grace can of course accomplish even more. In the short term, I cannot control what I want, but if I want to change my wants, then there are behavioral therapy programs that can help. Some people claim to have conquered various forms of addiction in this way. Regarding the commandments: you're being a bit hard on yourself, aren't you? I understand that there are disputes about the meaning of "covet" in the Ten Commandments. See for example this video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGG9uM8l1GE , which I don't think proves its claim that covet equals "take", but does (I think) cast doubt on the claim that it simply means "desire". Perhaps "covet" in that verse means saying to oneself, "I would take this, if I could get away with it", which is much more malevolent than saying to oneself, "This looks nice". It is certainly true, however, that a really virtuous person would not even want anything that was not his. As for 2 Corinthians 9:7, God does indeed love a cheerful giver, but that does not mean that He hates grumpy givers. Better to give grumpily than not give at all. Finally, I'd like to question your implicit assumption that the only thing that can keep a bad desire in check is an opposing desire. Hobbes had a similar idea: that whenever we choose, it is always the strongest desire that wins out. I disagree. I might desire things that I shouldn't; but what keeps me from taking them is not a contrary desire but an intent to do the right thing, even if it is not what I want. In other words, an act of will can countermand a desire, but willing is not necessarily wanting.vjtorley
January 4, 2012
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Incidentally, Elizabeth, according to what I was taught in the venerable science of social psychology at Cambridge we are both wrong. Our decisions are the result of genetics and/or environment because (the science said) “there is nothing else.”
Well, they were wrong. But I expect that was some time ago, wasn't it? :)Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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Jon, at no time did I suggest or imply that a hurricane has free will. I merely pointed out that a system, such as a galaxy, or a hurricane, has properties not possessed by its parts. You can call these "emergent" properties, or you can keep it simple, and just call them the properties of the system in question. After all most things are systems of some other set of things. But galaxies and hurricanes are not choosing systems, but a brain does form a choosing system, and the name we give to those choosing systems is "I", or "you" or "she" or "he", or "mind". And in particular, a human brain is able to not only to choose between options with immediate consequences, but options with future consequences, not only for ourselves, but for others, including others as yet unborn, and also for members of other species. This is, I would argue, because we have the capacity to use a symbolic language that is capable not merely of representing objects, but time, and consequence, and, therefore hypotheticals and abstractions. And we are also capable of "mental time travel" meaning that we can see things from other points of view, including the view that we ourselves would have at a different place and time, and the view that other people would have, including their view of ourselves. We can see ourselves from the outside, in other words, place ourselves on our own world-map and recognise ourselves as causal agents within the world. As beings, in other words, with free will.Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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I thought I would look at the dictionary meaning of desire. noun 3.a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment: a desire for fame. 4.an expressed wish; request. 5.something desired. 6.sexual appetite or a sexual urge. So you may have a sexual urge, that is your desire. But you choose to follow up on that or you don't. You have the free will to choose. Which ever way you choose, you still have the desire. There is a difference between desire, and decision. http://patternsofcreation.weebly.com/MrDunsapy
January 4, 2012
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M. Holcumbrink: JDH, why do you make the choices that you do? Well, I don't want to answer for JDH's actions :). But in general, I would say that we make the choices that we do according to how, inwardly, we react to our situation, in a context where our consciousness has a moral intuition about the different meanings and values of different choices, and freely makes its choice with inner awareness of its being more or less "good" or "bad". That's what is usually called "moral conscience". IOWs, choices are never made out of mere cognition, or of mere passive influence from outer or inner sources, or out of chance, although all these factors can vary the scenario of possible choices. Choices, free choices, are made from our heart and soul's adherence, or not adherence, to what is intuitively felt as good.gpuccio
January 4, 2012
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JDH: That's a very good and simple definition of libertarian free will. I absolutely agree.gpuccio
January 4, 2012
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Jon: "Motto: never put a hurricane in charge of decision making." But I believed that's exactly what we observe so often in our world!gpuccio
January 4, 2012
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Any choice anyone has ever made is based on a desire of some sort, and in the cases where a choice is made in opposition to a desire, it is only because of another, more powerful, opposing desire. This should be plain to see. I want to eat the enchiladas, but if I do, I will be painfully bloated and they will end up in my mouth later in the evening as I sleep, so my desire to avoid painful reflux overrides my desire for a sumptuous meal. Likewise, there is such a thing as being righteous for righteousness’ sake, but don’t pretend like it is not a desire in and of itself. There are those who love to do righteousness, and do it because they desire to see righteousness performed more than satisfying some wicked urge. Others, however, desire the praise of men more than satisfying the urge, and it is for this reason that they do righteousness. But their choice is due to a desire that will avail them nothing before God. So don’t fool yourself into thinking that we have some sort of ability to make choices apart from our desires. We do not. The only way a choice is meaningful is if we choose according to a desire of ours, and it is only just before God if the choice is right according to a right desire. So in order to please God, our desires must made aright before him, and it is not in our power to do so. We must be reborn, and that according to the will of God. Not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. We are at his mercy.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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Incidentally, Elizabeth, according to what I was taught in the venerable science of social psychology at Cambridge we are both wrong. Our decisions are the result of genetics and/or environment because (the science said) "there is nothing else."Jon Garvey
January 4, 2012
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Elaizabeth Chaotic systems are highly ordered. Brains are highly organised. Difference? Hurricanes - formed by simple forces (algorithms) in complex combinations. Outputs disorganised and destructive. Brains - formed by complex algorithms (genetic, epigenetic) in complex combinations. Outputs highly organised and constructive. Motto: never put a hurricane in charge of decision making.Jon Garvey
January 4, 2012
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please see #14.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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vjt, My response here is in regards to 6.2.1 and 4.2.2 (I’m trying to consolidate my posts at the bottom of the thread). Regarding 6.2.1, again, it depends on what you mean by “free”. I am not saying that I am not free to choose what I desire to do, but I am saying that I cannot choose my desires. But desire is just another name for “the will”, so in this sense, the will is in bondage, or is not free, so neither am I. To illustrate this (if it even needs to be illustrated beyond eating), another example from everyday life can help, especially for those that are married. Suppose I am in the mood, and I say to my wife, “wife, let’s get it on tonight”, to which she replies “husband, I really am not in the mood for that.” Then suppose I say, “but wife, why don’t you just make it to where you are in the mood?” Well, to any woman it should be obvious that she cannot do that any more than she can reach up and touch the sun. But it would make marriages much easier to stick with if she could. Then suppose she says “husband, why don’t you make it to where you are NOT in the mood, and leave me be?”, which should be obvious to any man that he might as well try to reach up and touch the sun as well. For me, cold showers don’t even work, and besides, that only makes me mad. There are also other matters, more sinister (perhaps), such as covetousness, which is a desire for something that someone else has that does not belong to you. If you ever come under the impression that it is wrong to desire such things (like your neighbor’s wife, or car, or house), then you just go on and try to stop desiring it. Paul expressed his dismay at not being able to do it (Romans 7). And yet it is wrong to even desire such things, let alone to steal them, or to deprive the rightful owner of them whether you yourself can obtain them or not. Then there is almsgiving, which is only a just thing before God if it is given willingly and cheerfully (II Cor 9:8). Otherwise it avails you nothing before God. And yet I find myself to begrudgingly, without gladness, putting my tithe in the plate. And there is nothing I can do about it except be sad that it is so. My greediness and selfishness is always there to have their say. So my realization of this is what causes me to see that I cannot control my desires, yet they are with me constantly, and bid me to satisfy them. If I could turn them off, I would, but I cannot. The only thing that can help is an opposing desire. For example, If I am tempted to cheat on my wife, it would be tremendously helpful if at the same time I had a desire to keep her from being hurt. And if I figure that she would never find out to be hurt by it, it would be helpful if I also had a desire to maintain marital fidelity for the sake of marital fidelity. But even though fear of disease might prevent it (desire to stay healthy), even though it prevents the evil, it avails me nothing before God. So if there is a virtuous desire there to oppose the wicked desire, then the evil can be stayed. But it should be plain to see that if there is nothing virtuous within me to keep me from the evil, then I will by necessity do the evil. The choice to do otherwise is there, but why would I take it if there is nothing within me to cause me to take the high road? But I also know this: if there are virtues within me that prevent me from doing evil, I know that I did not put those there, either. Yet they are the only things that stand in opposition to the wicked desires that are within me. C. S. Lewis saw this, and of himself he said “I am Legion.” These sad experiences are what make me say that I am not free. I am all too familiar with the reality of this bondage, and of its remedy.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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Hi M. Holcumbrink So yes, we can choose, but the choices we will actually make are limited to our desires (why would we choose otherwise?) ----------------------------------------------------- The choices we make are based on free will. Though these choices are not always our desires. We also have a sense of responsibly and morality. We can choose to let these be part of our decisions, or not. Some live without responsibly, but some do. But they may have the same desire. http://patternsofcreation.weebly.com/MrDunsapy
January 4, 2012
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The brain is a profoundly chaotic system. I mean "chaotic" in the technical sense, of course - it's a shame it has a lay meaning of disordered. Chaotic systems, as you know, are highly structured. I would agree, that it is not possible to conceive of a conscious "I" without free will, and as we self-evidently can conceive of a conscious "I" that implies that we have free will :) That's sort of my point :) I'm more than happy to talk about consciousness, but it's another topic, and rather a large one! Maybe some other time?Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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MrD, we do have an ability to choose, but it must be noted that we will only choose that which is in accordance with our strongest desires. Our choices arise from within ourselves (not outside), and we are therefore at fault if we do the wrong thing. More importantly, it must also be noted that our desires themselves, apart from any action we take, are god or evil, and we will be judged according to those as well (thou shalt not covet). But since we cannot control our desires, in this way our actions are therefore determined. In your military service example, it should be plain that any decision anyone ever makes in regards to this springs forth from some desire on his part. In wartime, many men sign up on their own accord; Some out of a desire for vengeance; some out of a desire for adventure; some out of a sense of duty, (which is the desire to do what is perceived to be right for right’s sake alone). Others did not sign up, and were drafted, perhaps because they were afraid (desire to stay alive), or perhaps they had other interests to pursue rather than the enemy (desire to obtain wealth). But in all these cases the serviceman was subject to his own desires, and where there was conflict within, the strongest desire won out (who more than selves their country loved). So yes, we can choose, but the choices we will actually make are limited to our desires (why would we choose otherwise?). Behind every choice is a desire, and our desires are ultimately what define us as individuals, and distinguishes us from robots, which do not feel and are not conscious individuals. Yet our desires are in bondage (i.e. we cannot control them), and our actions are therefore determined. So IOW, we choose our own path (and our choices spring from within us according to the options before us and the desires of our hearts), but we have not chosen our desires, and in this way our path is determined, and not by us.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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I'm not sure that chaotic systems like hurricanes (complex, very little information)have any relevance to the discussion which are complex and highly organised informationally. I would assume that the difference is obvious enough, and nobody seriously suggests that storms or galaxies have free will, though some have suggested that complex enough computer systems might. But in your description, free-will is only an emergent or systems property if "I-ness" is. I'm not sure it's possible to conceive of a conscious "I" without free-will, in the wider sense of making choices, and neither does freedom in the absence of consciousness make any sense. So where is the evidence that consciousness is an emergent property of physical states rather than a superadded one?Jon Garvey
January 4, 2012
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Regarding the Monergism website, up in the corner is this quote by John Owen: "To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." If this is true, it has drastic implications, not only for the "free will" debate, but also for a man's soul, if he does not believe it to be so. So a claim has been made, that where a man falls in the "free will" debate has eternal consequences for his soul, which, again, would warrant some investigation, to say the least.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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BA, If you were to get familiar with the basic thought involved with reformed Christianity, I would start with Luther's Bondage of the Will (and I would suggest the Packer/Johnston translation). I had to read it more than once for it to absorb into my pea brain, but I accept most of what he has to say therein without scruple now. I have always had tendencies towards this line of thought, but this little book helped to remove all doubt. This website can take you on from there, which can give you recommendations on further reading. ...if you are interested, that is. But I would say that there are other assertions to be made in this debate, and to remain unfamiliar with them would be to ignore possibilities that could very well be definitive, or at least would seem to comport best with our perception of reality.M. Holcumbrink
January 4, 2012
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Yes, a computer is a system. So is a hurricane, or a galaxy. I did not claim that all systems have free will. I claimed that the agent I call "I" is a system, and that it is free to choose between alternative courses of action. What makes me free is my capacity to simulate the outcome of alternative causes of action, under various scenarios, and to select from those scenarios the action most likely to bring about my goal. The fact that I can describe this system in terms of interacting neural networks and feedback loops and environmental stimuli and learning process does not alter the fact that I am a choosing system. That I can choose - will - may actions.Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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A computer is also a system - but as I said before, the output of prose from it is literally more than the sum of the parts, not because of a property of the system, but because of a non-electronic agent - us. To state that human consciousness is a systems-level property gives no more actual information than to say it is an emergent property: it remains to be demonstrated whether it can be described as a direct property of the biological system at all. The bmind-body problem does not go away simply by using mechanistic terminology.Jon Garvey
January 4, 2012
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The immaterial mind might well prove resistant to physical investigation, on principle. But “emergence”, being purely physical, requires a mechanism the lack of which tends to falsify it as an explanation.
But of course there are mechanisms, otherwise there would be no emergence. It's not a word I especially like - I tend to use "systems" and "systems level" myself. A system has properties not possessed by its parts. Therefore "reducing" it to its parts, omits what gives the system its properties. That doesn't mean that the system does not consist of those parts, but it means it also consists of the way those parts are organised.Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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"Emergence " is a strange word, as soon as you try to pin it to cause and effect. The facts are there are physical processes associated with organised ones (eg human physiology and decisions). To say the latter emerge from the former adds nothing to the fact of mere association, which could equally be explained by the existence of something of a different order to the physical, like an immaterial mind. The immaterial mind might well prove resistant to physical investigation, on principle. But "emergence", being purely physical, requires a mechanism the lack of which tends to falsify it as an explanation. In general physical states don't give rise to organised complexity, so to cite emergence as an "explanation" is no more scientific than citing magic. One could say that written words are an emergent property of computer keyboards, processors and printers. But in that case, we know a non-electronic key component (us) has been falsely excluded.Jon Garvey
January 4, 2012
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Glad we agree on so much :)
But a reductionist physical determinist would say that since mental states boil down to physical ones, there was nothing surprising about what you did, at a molecular level. To refute that logic, you need to argue that top-down causation is real and irreducible to bottom-up causation.
And the error there is in that term "boil down". Yes, I know it's a metaphor, but one that trips a lot of people up, not least "reductionists". That's why the term "emerge" has become popular: mental states emerge from physical states; they don't "boil down" to physical states, any more than a boeuf bourgignon "boils down" to a mess in the bottom of the pan. Once it's boiled down, it's no longer a boeuf bourgignon. Nor is it a boeuf bourgignon when the ingredients are still sitting in the fridge. And that's my point: to say that "I" am free, I have to know what I mean by "I", and that does not "boil down" to a physical state. And it "emerges" from far more than that And, IMO, we do not need to worry about "top down" versus "bottom up" causation. Complex systems (and people are possibly the most complex system in the universe) consist complex of interactions between "top" and "bottom" - between the whole and the part, or between output and input, endogenous and endogenous. What happens to us affects who we are and the choices we make, and who we are and teh choices we make affect what happens to us. Not only that, but those choices affect the construct of capabilities and opportunities and moral responsibilities and agency we refer to as "I" and "you". Which "boils down" IMO, to saying that the expression "I am free" is perfectly true. If "I" wasn't "free" we'd have a contradiction in terms - I would by defining "I" merely as a deterministic trajectory through life, not as an agent capable of being the subject of a verb. And clearly "I" is capable of being the subject of a great many verbs, even, if, in my case, not the verb "to play Chopin on the piano". It's true of Gil though :)Elizabeth Liddle
January 4, 2012
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Hi Elizabeth, Surprisingly, I find myself in agreement with most of what you wrote. Regarding the repertoire of one's possibilities: it seems there is a sense in which it can be enlarged and a sense in which it cannot, if you're a materialist. From a physical point of view, the set of possible physical states which are open for me to realize at time T1 will alway be smaller at the immediately preceding time T0 than it was at the earlier time T(-1). In that sense, the scope of one's possibilities is perpetually shrinking. Perhaps I could have become an athlete when I was a child; now that's out of the question. If, on the other hand, one looks at one's mental horizon, this can indeed expand. A child might learn to read and then realize that he/she could become President one day. You seem to be arguing that because I can surprise myself in terms of new accomplishments that I would never have imagined I could do at some earlier time, then I am free. But a reductionist physical determinist would say that since mental states boil down to physical ones, there was nothing surprising about what you did, at a molecular level. To refute that logic, you need to argue that top-down causation is real and irreducible to bottom-up causation. JDH made an interesting point abouyt our ability to generate abstract symbols. I'm not quite clear on his argument, but he seems to be saying that the number of mental states I can realize at time t (as measured by the number of strings of characters I can generate) is larger than the finite number of future physical states I can realize at time t, then the mental must be irreducible to the physical. That's an interesting argument, and I think it has something in it. Thoughts?vjtorley
January 3, 2012
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vj,
Jon Garvey raised an interesting question about God’s freedom. It is quite true that God cannot choose to be evil, for that would be contrary to His nature, but He can choose which goods He realizes. He could have made this world, or He could have made another one. Because He still has a choice of goods in His dealings with us, it makes perfect sense to speak of Him as free.
If God is perfect, then he's not only unable to choose to do evil; his freedom is even further restricted in that he must always make the absolute best choice at any given time. (There may sometimes be two or more maximally optimal choices available, but will this always be true?) This also highlights an odd fact about libertarian free will vs. compatibilism. A libertarian thinks he is most free when his actions are least constrained by his nature, while for a compatibilist it is exactly the opposite: freedom consists in doing exactly what is in one's nature to do.champignon
January 3, 2012
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Barry - on the clarity of what we mean by free will. I have a different take on this from Elizabeth. You write:
if one defines “free will” as the ability to have chosen differently, then free will is incompatible with materialism
as though "ability to have chosen differently" was crystal clear. But words like "ability" "can" "possible" are all modal words. They carry with them an implied set of conditions and this is where the confusion comes in. If I am in prison I do not have the ability to choose to wander around the high street unless I break out of prison. There is always an implied "unless" clause in any modal statement. I have the ability to decide to do my exercises this morning unless I feel too tired, or my leg is broken, or my wife persuades me out of it, or I am still asleep. The non-compatabilist case rests on the idea that there is some kind of "ability" where the unless clause is not defined. This is far from clear.markf
January 3, 2012
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Tragic mishap, I agree.vjtorley
January 3, 2012
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Hi Barry, Thanks very much for your comments. Just to be clear, I do not wish to positively assert that libertarian free will is compatible with metaphysical materialism. What I'm suggesting is a methodological agnosticism on the issue. Some Christian philosophers, such as Locke, have argued that God could have made a purely material being with a capacity for thought and free will, and while I'm inclined to think they're wrong (especially about thought), I also think that's a separate issue from the question of whether our choices are in fact determined. Scientists can investigate this question, as far as (alleged) physical determinants of action (e.g. heredity and environment) are concerned, and construct experiments designed to test the proposition that my actions are determined by my environment acting on my brain and body. I don't know how scientists could test the question of whether my intellect is physical or not. If it were possible to show that an individual could think two very different thoughts while having the same brain state, that would indicate very strongly that the intellect was non-physical. The problem is that the brain is in a state of constant flux, so its state changes from one moment to the next. Does anyone have any other ideas?vjtorley
January 3, 2012
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M. Holcumbrink, Just out of curiosity, what is it about everyday experience which persuades you that you are not free?vjtorley
January 3, 2012
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Hi M. Holcumbrink, Thank you for your posts. Regarding freedom of the will, I would say that the question of whether we can choose our will is a meaningless one. I can choose to eat, but I cannot choose to want to eat, let alone choose to choose to eat. I can choose not to eat, even though I want to, of course. The real question is, however, whether my choice to eat is determined by circumstances beyond my control. Calvinists say it's determined by God's will; scientific determinists say it's determined by my environment acting on my brain and body, which are in turn the product of my genes. A proponent of libertarian free will would say that my choice is not determined by anything outside myself. Hence, whatever I choose, I could do otherwise. Why is the issue so important? Because to most people, it seems obvious that if my choices are determined by circumstances beyond my control, then I cannot be legitimately blamed for any bad choices I make - or praised for any good ones. Compatibilists have a different definition of freedom from incompatiblists. For a compatibilist, my actions are free if (i) they are not forced on me against my will, (ii) they are what I want to do, and (iii) I do them for a reason. An imcompatibilist would change (i) to read: they are not determined. A compatibilist would say that if something outside me could make me want to do something for a reason, then my action of doing it would be free, since I am acting rationally in accordance with my wants. An incompatibilist (or proponent of libertarian free will) would say that because my action is still determined, it is not free. To illustrate why I think the compatibilist position makes no sense, imagine that there was a magic magnetic scanner whose pulses could not only make people want to move their limbs, but make people want to move them for a reason, which could be programmed into the scanner by an operator. Let's say that the operator programmed me to open my wallet, and give my money to a homeless person. Would my action be meritorious? I'd say obviously not. Jon Garvey raised an interesting question about God's freedom. It is quite true that God cannot choose to be evil, for that would be contrary to His nature, but He can choose which goods He realizes. He could have made this world, or He could have made another one. Because He still has a choice of goods in His dealings with us, it makes perfect sense to speak of Him as free. I hope that helps.vjtorley
January 3, 2012
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