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“Is James Shapiro a Design Theorist?”: James Shapiro Replies to Bill Dembski

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Here:

Dembski writes (Dembski’s opener here. ):

So Shapiro admits that the basic structures required for life are unexplained within his framework, and yet intelligent design is off the table. But why should it be off the table? In the last quote above, he interprets ID as requiring constant supernatural interventions. But ID is hardly limited in that way, a point he tacitly admits in the quote before that: “the ID argument is greatly undermined if it has to invoke supernatural intervention for the origin of each modified adaptive structure.” Note the conditional.

ID does not have to invoke supernatural interventions for every modified adaptive structure. Indeed, ID does not have to invoke supernatural interventions at all. ID only requires that intelligence acted in the formation of biological systems. How that intelligence acted — the precise timing and mode of implementation — is left wide open.

My response: These statements are confusing. Is Dembski saying that he abandons the supernatural as a component of ID? If so, then we can start a real scientific dialogue about the possible natures of intelligence, teleology and design in biology and how to investigate them both theoretically and experimentally. However, if he does not want to abandon the supernatural (as Michael Behe has repeatedly told me he does not) and if he wishes always to have recourse to a literal Deus ex Machina, then we cannot have a serious scientific discussion. Doing that requires respecting the naturalistic limits of science. I think it would be a very positive development for ID proponents to give up on all theological crutches and engage in a strictly naturalistic inquiry, independent of whatever their beliefs in final causes may be. Is Bill Dembski willing to do that?

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Comments
Check any published science paper for a prediction of methodological naturalism. There are probably millions.Elizabeth Liddle
January 17, 2012
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Methodological naturalism is nothing more than question-begging and it breaks down at the "big bang" because natural processes only exist in nature and therefor cannot account for its origins, which science says it had. What are the predictions of methodological naturalism?Joe
January 17, 2012
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Elizabeth:
Yes, the rejection of methodological naturalism is religious.
Just becauyse YOU say so? LoL!
What would a non-religious rejection of methodological naturalism be?
Intellignet Design is non-religious. Methodological naturalism breaks down at the "big bang"- ya see natural processes only exist in nature and therefor cannot account for its origins, which science says it had.Joe
January 17, 2012
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There are no "predictions of theism" except, possibly the prediction that things will be unpredictable. Which is falsified every time someone figures out how to predict something. That's why theism is a science stopper, and why methodological naturalism is the only approach science can take.Elizabeth Liddle
January 17, 2012
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Notes on the artificial imposition of Methodological Naturalism on the scientific method: Predictions of Materialism compared to Predictions of Theism within the scientific method:
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." William Shakespeare - Hamlet
The artificial imposition of the materialistic philosophy onto the scientific method has blinded many scientists to the inference of God as a rational explanation in these questions of origins. In fact, the scientific method, by itself, makes absolutely no predictions as to what the best explanation will be prior to investigation in these question of origins. In the beginning of a investigation all answers are equally valid to the scientific method. Yet scientists have grown accustomed through the years to the artificial imposition of the materialistic philosophy onto the scientific method. That is to say by limiting the answers one may conclude to only materialistic ones, the scientific method has been very effective at solving many puzzles very quickly. This imposition of the materialistic philosophy onto the scientific method has indeed led to many breakthroughs of technology which would not have been possible had the phenomena been presumed to be solely the work of a miracle. This imposition of materialism onto the scientific method is usually called methodological naturalism, methodological materialism, or scientific materialism etc... Yet today, due to the impressive success of methodological naturalism in our everyday lives, many scientists are unable to separate this artificial imposition of the materialistic philosophy from the scientific method in this completely different question of origins. In fact, I've heard someone say, "Science is materialism." Yet science clearly is not materialism. Materialism is a philosophy which makes the dogmatic assertion that only blind material processes generated everything around us, including ourselves. Materialism is thus in direct opposition to Theism which holds that God purposely created us in His image. Furthermore science, or more particularly the scientific method, in reality, only cares to relentlessly pursue the truth and could care less if the answer is a materialistic one or not. This is especially true in these questions of origins, since we are indeed questioning the materialistic philosophy itself. i.e. We are asking the scientific method to answer this very specific question, "Did God create us or did blind material processes create us?" When we realize this is the actual question we are seeking an answer to within the scientific method, then of course it is readily apparent we cannot impose strict materialistic answers onto the scientific method prior to investigation. No less than leading "New Atheist" Richard Dawkins agrees:
"The presence of a creative deity in the universe is clearly a scientific hypothesis. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a more momentous hypothesis in all of science." Richard Dawkins https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/free-to-think-why-scientific-integrity-matters-by-caroline-crocker/ The best data we have [concerning the Big Bang] are exactly what I would have predicted, had I nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, the bible as a whole. Dr. Arno Penzias, Nobel Laureate in Physics - co-discoverer of the Cosmic Background Radiation - as stated to the New York Times on March 12, 1978
In fact when looking at the evidence in this light we find out many interesting things which scientists, who have been blinded by the philosophy of materialism, miss. This is because the materialistic and Theistic philosophy make, and have made, several natural contradictory predictions about what evidence we will find. These predictions, and the evidence we have found, can be tested against one another within the scientific method.
Steps of the Scientific Method http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_scientific_method.shtml
For a quick overview, here are a few:
1. Materialism predicted an eternal universe, Theism predicted a created universe. - Big Bang points to a creation event. - 2. Materialism predicted time had an infinite past, Theism predicted time had a creation. - Time was created in the Big Bang. - 3. Materialism predicted space has always existed, Theism predicted space had a creation (Psalm 89:12) - Space was created in the Big Bang. - 4. Materialism predicted that material has always existed, Theism predicted 'material' was created. - 'Material' was created in the Big Bang. 5. Materialism predicted at the base of physical reality would be a solid indestructible material particle which rigidly obeyed the rules of time and space, Theism predicted the basis of this reality was created by a infinitely powerful and transcendent Being who is not limited by time and space - Quantum mechanics reveals a wave/particle duality for the basis of our reality which blatantly defies our concepts of time and space. - 6. Materialism predicted that consciousness is a 'emergent property' of material reality and thus has no particular special position within material reality. Thesism predicted consciousness preceded material reality and therefore consciousness should have a 'special' position within material reality. Quantum Mechanics reveals that consciousness has a special, even central, position within material reality. (Wigner; Wheeler) - 7. Materialism predicted the rate at which time passed was constant everywhere in the universe, Theism predicted God is eternal and is outside of time - Special Relativity has shown that time, as we understand it, is relative and comes to a complete stop at the speed of light. (Psalm 90:4 - 2 Timothy 1:9) - 8. Materialism predicted the universe did not have life in mind and life was ultimately an accident of time and chance. Theism predicted this universe was purposely created by God with man in mind - Every transcendent universal constant scientists can measure is exquisitely fine-tuned for carbon-based life to exist in this universe. - 9. Materialism predicted complex life in this universe should be fairly common. Theism predicted the earth is extremely unique in this universe - Statistical analysis of the hundreds of required parameters which enable complex life to be possible on earth gives strong indication the earth is extremely unique in this universe. - 10. Materialism predicted much of the DNA code was junk. Theism predicted we are fearfully and wonderfully made - ENCODE research into the DNA has revealed a "biological jungle deeper, denser, and more difficult to penetrate than anyone imagined.". - 11. Materialism predicted a extremely beneficial and flexible mutation rate for DNA which was ultimately responsible for all the diversity and complexity of life we see on earth. Theism predicted only God created life on earth - The mutation rate to DNA is overwhelmingly detrimental. Detrimental to such a point that it is seriously questioned whether there are any truly beneficial mutations whatsoever. (M. Behe; JC Sanford) - 12. Materialism predicted a very simple first life form which accidentally came from "a warm little pond". Theism predicted God created life - The simplest life ever found on Earth is far more complex than any machine man has made through concerted effort. (Michael Denton PhD) - 13. Materialism predicted it took a very long time for life to develop on earth. Theism predicted life to appear abruptly on earth after water appeared on earth (Genesis 1:10-11) - We find evidence for complex photo-synthetic life in the oldest sedimentary rocks ever found on earth - 14. Materialism predicted the gradual unfolding of life to be self-evident in the fossil record. Theism predicted complex and diverse life to appear abruptly in the seas in God's fifth day of creation. - The Cambrian Explosion shows a sudden appearance of many different and completely unique fossils within a very short "geologic resolution time" in the Cambrian seas. - 15. Materialism predicted there should be numerous transitional fossils found in the fossil record, Theism predicted sudden appearance and rapid diversity within different kinds found in the fossil record - Fossils are consistently characterized by sudden appearance of a group/kind in the fossil record, then rapid diversity within the group/kind, and then long term stability and even deterioration of variety within the overall group/kind, and within the specific species of the kind, over long periods of time. Of the few dozen or so fossils claimed as transitional, not one is uncontested as a true example of transition between major animal forms out of millions of collected fossils. - 16. Materialism predicted animal speciation should happen on a somewhat constant basis on earth. Theism predicted man was the last species created on earth - Man himself is the last generally accepted major fossil form to have suddenly appeared in the fossil record. - references for each of the 16 predictions: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ubha8aFKlJiljnuCa98QqLihFWFwZ_nnUNhEC6m6Cys
As you can see when we remove the artificial imposition of the materialistic philosophy, from the scientific method, and look carefully at the predictions of both the materialistic philosophy and the Theistic philosophy, side by side, we find the scientific method is very good at pointing us in the direction of Theism as the true explanation. - In fact it is even very good at pointing us to Christianity:
General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Entropy & The Shroud Of Turin - (updated video; notes in video description) http://vimeo.com/34084462
bornagain77
January 17, 2012
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No, I don't think I'm heterodox, I'd say I'm "cutting edge" :) Unless the cutting edge is always heterodox, which I guess it sort of is. With regard to your last point: I consider intelligence to be within the remit of methodological naturalism (after all, I'm a neuroscientist!) I don't subscribe to the view that "intelligence" is where we must stop when attempting to explain phenomena. In fact, I'd say that "methodological naturalism" is simply the commitment to keep on asking questions, the one in at issue here being "what is the nature and mechanism of the intelligence that appears to account for the functional complexity we observe in living things?" And the most obvious answer is: "the Darwinian algorithm", which, IMO, also accounts in many respects for our own.Elizabeth Liddle
January 17, 2012
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Elizabeth Would you therefore agree with Jerry Coyne's assessment that agreement with Shapiro makes you heterodox with regard to mainstream evolutionary theory? Or is Coyne himself being a schismatic to suggest that? Similarly, Larry Moran regards Shapiro as very likely a closet "ID creationist" in the light of his response (quoted by champignon) to Dembski's challenge. Does that suggest that "intelligent design" is generally accepted as within the remit of methodological naturalism?Jon Garvey
January 17, 2012
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And why would that not be "methodological naturalism"? Concluding that "an intelligent designer did it" is a perfectly valid conclusion under "methodological naturalism". And under methodological naturalism, the next question must be: who or what is this intelligent designer, and how did it do it? Right? Simply concluding "something supernatural" is not an explanation, it is merely a refusal to ask more questions. It's a seizing of a "theological implication" rather than seeking a further explanation of the data. So, I'd say you are 180 degrees wrong. Methodological naturalism is the openness to any explanation of the data that fits the facts, whatever that means, including going beyond a glib "theological" conclusion to seek further explanation of those data. Like Shapiro, I think biological organisms bear the imprint of an intelligent process. Concluding that that process must be supernatural and stopping there is religious. Going beyond, and attampting to delineate that process is scientific. That's what Shapiro is asking for. But that means adopting methodological naturalism.Elizabeth Liddle
January 17, 2012
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There are other 'methodologies' than those that simply study 'nature' AND that qualify as 'scientific.' One just needs to open their eyes outside of the USAmerican and British contexts, respectively, to find them. Do you read German, Chinese or Russian, Elizabeth? If not, then please don't speak so absolutely-universally about "the methodological naturalism" since you'd be speaking within a rather narrow range. You are sinking in rudimentary 'philosophy of science' with your supposition that a rejection of MN is possible only on religious grounds.Gregory
January 17, 2012
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The openness to any explanation for the data that fits the facts, whatever its philosophical or theological implications.Bruce David
January 17, 2012
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champignon,
That makes no more sense than arguing that “Archeology is only about identifying designed objects. Speculations regarding who made the objects, and why, are outside the realm of science.”
Well, you have a point about archaeology. In archaeology, it is assumed that the objects which are found in the ground or in ancient tombs and which are determined to be designed were made by human beings. This assumption allows the archaeologist to draw more conclusions regarding the nature of the designer than can be drawn scientifically when it comes to the designer(s) of organisms. What I said stands as I stated it when applied to the design of living things, however.
Luckily, archeologists and scientists in general have much more curiosity than that. Science is all about curiosity.
This is a disingenuous comment. Of course scientists who are proponents of ID are just as curious as anyone else. They wouldn't have PhDs and do research and publish papers and think deeply about these issues otherwise. My comment was about demarcation---what type of question lies within the province of science and what properly belongs to other realms of inquiry, that's all.
ID, on the other hand, prematurely answers questions with designer-of-the-gaps explanations...
This "designer-of-the-gaps" (or "God-of-the-gaps") charge is a straw man. The conclusion of ID is the result of a genuine search for truth. It is a conclusion that is reached after weighing the evidence and deciding what the best explanation for the existence of something actually is. It is not, "I don't understand how this could have come into being so I will attribute its existence to a designer." Rather, it is "This could not have arisen by chance. The laws of physics, chemistry, and probability forbid it. Furthermore, it bears all the hallmarks of things that we know have been designed. Therefore the only reasonable explanation for its existence is that it was designed by an intelligent agent or agents." In other words, the scientist who concludes that ID is the most reasonable explanation for a given phenomenon does so not on the basis of ignorance, but on the basis of knowledge---knowledge regarding the phenomenon in question, knowledge of the laws of physics and chemistry, knowledge of the laws of probability, and knowledge of the characteristics and qualities of things that have been designed by an intelligent agent. So let me ask you a question. What if living things appear to be designed because they actually were designed? In that case, the result of forbidding a conclusion of design would be to prevent the truth from ever being discovered. Science should be a genuine search for truth. When you arbitrarily forbid a possible explanation on the grounds that it contradicts your favored metaphysical paradigm, you are essentially giving your philosophical position a higher priority than the search for truth. I say, let those scientists who conclude that ID is the best explanation for certain phenomena be free to come to that conclusion, to do the research and to to publish papers and books explaining the evidence for their conclusions, without hindrance. Let those who believe that there is a naturalistic explanation for these phenomena continue to do research to attempt to prove their position is correct, and let the truth reveal itself.
ID...tries to protect itself by ruling out further inquiry into the nature and methods of the Designer.
It does no such thing. All ID proponents I know of inquire into the nature and methods of the designer. In general, however, such inquiry is not within the realm of science, that's all. But even there, if someone had a speculation regarding the methods of the designer that could somehow be tested experimentally, I am certain that no ID friendly scientist would object to such a research project.Bruce David
January 17, 2012
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Yes, the rejection of methodological naturalism is religious. What would a non-religious rejection of methodological naturalism be?Elizabeth Liddle
January 17, 2012
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"It’s funny how proponents insist that ID is not religious when their leaders are making statements like that." What is 'religious' in the statement quoted? Are you suggesting any mention of Alvin Plantinga means the statement must be 'religious'? Or that any rejection of 'methodologial naturalism' (that curious USAmerican communicative invention) must be 'religious'? There are many other statements by Bill Dembski that reveal the 'non-chance,' and 'necessary,' i.e. the 'contingent,' 'complex' (yet, sometimes surprisingly very simple), and 'specified' links between his reading/interpretation of the Universe as Created by G-d and what Dembski means by 'intelligent design/Intelligent Design,' but in the statement quoted (i.e. section 4.6), nothing there strikes me as 'religious.' ID people are playing in the wrong sandbox. I'd go ninja on Dr. Shapiro if he used that language with me. Shapiro would go silent (in meditation of what to do) in that sandbox. Nice to see Tesla's 'vision' explored here. "It is the rotating magnetic field that does it." Ezekiel 1: 20 What if someone had an 'alternative to ID' vision before they had even heard of ID? Would the IDM seek to 'expel' that idea from circulation if/when confronted with it? Or would they invite it to be shared, allowing even themselves to 'follow the evidence where it leads'?Gregory
January 16, 2012
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How do you know life wasn't designed by "cut and try"? We know it was designed. We don't know who the designer was or how he, she, or they did it. We weren't there. The fundamental thesis of ID is that you can tell when something was designed (and Dembski's work makes this rigorous) without knowing who the designer was or how the design was accomplished.Bruce David
January 16, 2012
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Shapiro writes:
However, if he does not want to abandon the supernatural (as Michael Behe has repeatedly told me he does not) and if he wishes always to have recourse to a literal Deus ex Machina, then we cannot have a serious scientific discussion. Doing that requires respecting the naturalistic limits of science. I think it would be a very positive development for ID proponents to give up on all theological crutches and engage in a strictly naturalistic inquiry, independent of whatever their beliefs in final causes may be. Is Bill Dembski willing to do that?
Dembski is apparently not willing to do that, judging by this quote from Intelligent Design, section 4.6:
So long as methodological naturalism sets the ground rules for how the game of science is to be played, intelligent design has no chance of success. Phillip Johnson makes this point eloquently. So does Alvin Plantinga. In his discussion of methodological naturalism Plantinga notes that if one accepts methodological naturalism then naturalistic evolution is the only game in town.
It's funny how proponents insist that ID is not religious when their leaders are making statements like that.champignon
January 16, 2012
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At least Shapiro is alive, so that he's able to defend himself when the ID folks try to kidnap him and pass him off as one of their own.champignon
January 16, 2012
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Apparently ID proponents don't actually read his stuff. He seems to argue that the processes of variation are optimized in much the same way as the immune system. But he explicitly States that mutations have no foresight and no propensity to cluster around what is needed.Petrushka
January 16, 2012
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I’d like to see proponents of a non-theological theory of ID present a theory of ID. A theory of design that would demonstrate that design is even possible without evolution.
Shapiro does support evolution. Or, at least, that is how I read his book. It's just that he sees self-design going on in biology as part of that evolutionary process, so he has some disagreements with the neo-Darwinian account.Neil Rickert
January 16, 2012
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sorry for the double reference on Nickola Teslabornagain77
January 16, 2012
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as to pet's comment:
You need a theory that explains how a designer bypasses the need for cut and try.
I'll do better than theory, I'll show you an actual example (which is a whole lot better than neo-Darwinism can do for even a single protein!~): Please note how Nickola Tesla's process of invention was entirely mental before construction:
Game on! A bioinformatician confronts Intelligent Design - VJT - January 2012 Excerpt: The moment one constructs a device to carry into practise a crude idea he finds himself unavoidably engrossed with the details and defects of the apparatus. As he goes on improving and reconstructing, his force of concentration diminishes and he loses sight of the great underlying principle. Results may be obtained but always at the sacrifice of quality. My method is different. I do not rush into actual work. When I get an idea I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever, the results are the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect a conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far as to embody in the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain. Invariably my device works as I conceived that it should, and the experiment comes out exactly as I planned it. In twenty years there has not been a single exception. Why should it be otherwise? Engineering, electrical and mechanical, is positive in results. There is scarcely a subject that cannot be mathematically treated and the effects calculated or the results determined beforehand from the available theoretical and practical data. The carrying out into practise of a crude idea as is being generally done is, I hold, nothing but a waste of energy, money and time. - Nikola Tesla https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/game-on-a-bioinformatician-confronts-intelligent-design/ Game on! A bioinformatician confronts Intelligent Design - VJT - January 2012 Excerpt: The moment one constructs a device to carry into practise a crude idea he finds himself unavoidably engrossed with the details and defects of the apparatus. As he goes on improving and reconstructing, his force of concentration diminishes and he loses sight of the great underlying principle. Results may be obtained but always at the sacrifice of quality. My method is different. I do not rush into actual work. When I get an idea I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever, the results are the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect a conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far as to embody in the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain. Invariably my device works as I conceived that it should, and the experiment comes out exactly as I planned it. In twenty years there has not been a single exception. Why should it be otherwise? Engineering, electrical and mechanical, is positive in results. There is scarcely a subject that cannot be mathematically treated and the effects calculated or the results determined beforehand from the available theoretical and practical data. The carrying out into practise of a crude idea as is being generally done is, I hold, nothing but a waste of energy, money and time. - Nikola Tesla https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/game-on-a-bioinformatician-confronts-intelligent-design/
In 1882, Tesla saw a VISION of an alternating current motor while walking with a former classmate in a park in Budapest, Hungary:
"Don't you see it" expostulated the excited Tesla. "See how smoothly it is running? Now I throw this switch—and I reverse it. See! It goes just as smoothly in the opposite direction. Watch! I stop it. I start it. There is no sparking. There is nothing on it to spark." "But I see nothing," said Szigeti. "The sun is not sparking. Are you ill?" "You do not understand," beamed the still excited Tesla, turning as if to bestow a benediction on his companion. "It is my alternating-current motor I am talking about. I have solved the problem. Can't you see it right here in front of me, running almost silently? It is the rotating magnetic field that does it. See how the magnetic field rotates and drags the armature around with it? Isn't it beautiful? Isn't it sublime? Isn't it simple? I have solved the problem. Now I can die happy. But I must live, I must return to work and build the motor so I can give it to the world. No more will men be slaves to hard tasks. My motor will set them free, it will do the work of the world." Szigeti now understood. Tesla had previously told him about his attempt to solve the problem of an alternating-current motor, and he grasped the full meaning of the scientist's words. Tesla had never told him, however, about his ability to visualize objects which he conceived in his mind, so it was necessary to explain the vision he saw, and that the solution had come to him suddenly while they were admiring the sunset. Tesla was now a little more composed, but he was floating on air in a frenzy of almost religious ecstasy. He had been breathing deeply in his excitement, and the over ventilation of his lungs had produced a state of exhilaration. Picking up a twig, he used it as a scribe to draw a diagram on the dusty surface of the dirt walk. As he explained the technical principles of his discovery, his friend quickly grasped the beauty of his conception, and far into the night they remained together discussing its possibilities." (O' Neill, Prodigal Genius, pp. 49-50). Electrical genius Nicola Tesla was born in Serbia in 1856,,, his father was a clergyman. Excerpt: While walking in Budapest Park, Hungary, Nikola Tesla had seen a vision of a functioning alternating current (AC) electric induction motor. This was one of the most revolutionary inventions in the entire history of the world. http://www.reformation.org/nikola-tesla.html
More notes on the 'spiritual aspect' of man's ability to learn new information:
"Unusual though Homo sapiens may be morphologically, it is undoubtedly our remarkable cognitive qualities that most strikingly demarcate us from all other extant species. They are certainly what give us our strong subjective sense of being qualitatively different. And they are all ultimately traceable to our symbolic capacity. Human beings alone, it seems, mentally dissect the world into a multitude of discrete symbols, and combine and recombine those symbols in their minds to produce hypotheses of alternative possibilities. When exactly Homo sapiens acquired this unusual ability is the subject of debate." Ian Tattersall and Jeffrey Schwartz
The authors of the preceding paper try to find some evolutionary/materialistic reason for the extremely unique 'information generating capacity' of humans, but of course they never find a coherent reason. Indeed why should we ever consider the Darwinian process, which is, as far as all evidence thus far indicates, utterly incapable of ever generating any complex functional information at even the most foundational levels of molecular biology, to suddenly, magically, have the ability to generate our brain which can readily understand and generate functional information? A brain which has been repeatedly referred to as 'the Most Complex Structure in the Universe'? The authors, Ian Tattersall and Jeffrey Schwartz, never seem to consider the 'spiritual angle' for why we would have such a unique capacity for such abundant information processing. This following verses, are very clear as to what the implications of this evidence means to us and for us:
Genesis 3:8 And they (Adam and Eve) heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day... John 1:1-1 In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
A very strong piece of suggestive evidence, which persuasively hints at a unique relationship that man, alone among the species on earth, has with 'The Word' of John 1:1, is found in these following articles which point out the fact that ‘coincidental scientific discoveries’ are far more prevalent than what should be expected from a materialistic perspective,:
List of multiple discoveries Excerpt: Historians and sociologists have remarked on the occurrence, in science, of "multiple independent discovery". Robert K. Merton defined such "multiples" as instances in which similar discoveries are made by scientists working independently of each other.,,, Multiple independent discovery, however, is not limited to only a few historic instances involving giants of scientific research. Merton believed that it is multiple discoveries, rather than unique ones, that represent the common pattern in science. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_discoveries
The following is very interesting since atheists insist Christianity is anti-science;
Bruce Charlton's Miscellany - October 2011 Excerpt: I had discovered that over the same period of the twentieth century that the US had risen to scientific eminence it had undergone a significant Christian revival. ,,,The point I put to (Richard) Dawkins was that the USA was simultaneously by-far the most dominant scientific nation in the world (I knew this from various scientometic studies I was doing at the time) and by-far the most religious (Christian) nation in the world. How, I asked, could this be - if Christianity was culturally inimical to science? http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2011/10/meeting-richard-dawkins-and-his-wife.html
The following video is far more direct in establishing the 'spiritual' link to man's ability to learn new information, in that it shows that the SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) scores for students showed a steady decline, for seventeen years from the top spot or near the top spot in the world, after the removal of prayer from the public classroom by the Supreme Court, not by public decree, in 1963. Whereas the SAT scores for private Christian schools have consistently remained at the top, or near the top, spot in the world:
The Real Reason American Education Has Slipped – David Barton – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4318930
You can see that dramatic difference, of the SAT scores for private Christian schools compared to public schools, at this following site;
Aliso Viejo Christian School – SAT 10 Comparison Report http://www.alisoviejochristianschool.org/sat_10.html
The following video is very suggestive to a 'spiritual' link in man's ability to learn new information in that the video shows that almost every, if not every, founder of each discipline of modern science was a devout Christian:
Christianity Gave Birth To Science - Dr. Henry Fritz Schaefer - video http://vimeo.com/16523153
Moreover, completely contrary to what atheists claim for being committed to rationality the plain fact is that,,
Atheism cannot ground Morality or Science https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ov3GNroapS12eg3rH0RxvlOdAXiFGaf436IPg5W2ids/edit
bornagain77
January 16, 2012
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Bruce, That makes no more sense than arguing that "Archeology is only about identifying designed objects. Speculations regarding who made the objects, and why, are outside the realm of science." Luckily, archeologists and scientists in general have much more curiosity than that. Science is all about curiosity. ID, on the other hand, prematurely answers questions with designer-of-the-gaps explanations, then tries to protect itself by ruling out further inquiry into the nature and methods of the Designer.champignon
January 16, 2012
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Unless you can demonstrate that design is even possible without using evolution, it doesn't merit consideration. Poof is not design. You need a theory that explains how a designer bypasses the need for cut and try.Petrushka
January 16, 2012
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Petrushka, ID as a scientific explanation of some phenomenon says only this: given the current state of knowledge of the phenomenon, the current understanding of scientific law, and the current understanding of the laws of probability, the most reasonable explanation for the existence of the phenomenon is that it was designed by an intelligent agent. Period. The scientific conclusion stops there. It does not say anything regarding the nature of the designer beyond the obvious---he, she, it, or they was or were capable of designing it. Speculations regarding who or what the designing intelligence was take us out of the realm of science and into that of philosophy or religion. The fact that most (but not all) proponents of ID believe that God was the designer is irrelevant to the science.Bruce David
January 16, 2012
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I'd like to see proponents of a non-theological theory of ID present a theory of ID. A theory of design that would demonstrate that design is even possible without evolution. They could start by explaining how a designer would go about knowing that a specific 100 base coding sequence would code for a useful protein, without starting with a known functional sequence and without using trial and selection. All you need is a predictive theory of protein folding, one that would provide a shortcut to design. Simple enough. First, tell me how you would distinguish a sequence that is just one base pair different from a functional sequence from a randomly generated sequence. Without invoking the actual chemistry.Petrushka
January 16, 2012
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If only there were more James Shapiros in the biological sciences. ;)Upright BiPed
January 16, 2012
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