Intelligent Design

Is the Bible Bad Theology?

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In a recent post replying to David Bentley Hart’s latest book, Dr. Torley asks:  Is Intelligent Design bad theology?  I commend the post to readers.  It is a work of tremendous erudition in which Dr. Torley explains that ID is perfectly consistent with the work of the great philosophers of the Christian tradition, especially Thomas Aquinas.

I have an even more basic question for Dr. Hart.  Is the Bible bad theology?  The psalmist, for instance, was certainly a proponent of cosmological ID, and he identified the designer as the God of Israel.  Consider:

“When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have ordained; what is man that You take thought of him, and the son of man that You care for him?”  Psalm 8:3-4

And:

“The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.  Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.”  Psalm 19:1-2

He was also a proponent of biological ID:

“I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Your works, and my soul knows it very well.”  Psalm 139:14

The Apostle Paul goes so far as to argue that the obvious design in nature stands as a witness to God’s glory and condemns unbelievers:

“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse”  Romans 1:20

I suppose Dr. Hart would argue that David and Paul were just ignorant rubes who had no conception of modern science and the awesome creative power of secondary causes like natural selection.  On the other hand, the twenty-first century has seen Antony Flew (the world’s most famous former atheist) say of cosmological design:  “The design that is apparent in nature suggests the existence of a cosmic Designer.”  And a secular twenty-first century microbiologist like Dr. Eugene Koonin has conceded that life is “almost like a miracle.”  Why, then, should we be embarrassed when the Biblical writers said essentially the same thing?

 

 

 

31 Replies to “Is the Bible Bad Theology?

  1. 1

    The Bible is not only the DEFINITION of Good Theology but is a good book on Philosopy of Science and contains good principles on how to deal with pseudoscience (like Darwinism, Methodological Naturalism, etc) as in this Timothy 1 6 20-21 (my own emphasize):

    20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

    I watch a lot of Nature and Astronomy, Cosmology, Physics documentaries on Discovery, Science channels. Any time I hear the commentators talking about biological or cosmological Evolution in these contexts I get upset. The proper attitude of the narrators should be that of Job when God asks him various questions in Job 38.

    Who was saying that the Bible is not also a Science book besides the TRUE Theology book?

  2. 2
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    What does Yahweh require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your Elohim? –Micah 6:8

    That’s enough for me.

    Everything else is debatable… and largely irrelevant at the hour of my death.

  3. 3
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    By the way, “the Bible” is a collection of separate writings spanning approximately 700 years (at least.) Opinions vary widely on what parts of those writings should be considered “scripture.” So to answer your OP question:

    Partially. Some good theology. Some not so good.

    The best and the worst of human thinking and anthropomorphizing of constitutes “God” is contained within “its” pages.

    IMO

  4. 4
    StephenB says:

    Barry, your timely post makes a solid point. As I am sure you are aware, there is nothing in those biblical passages that asks us to accept the testimony of God’s handiwork “on faith.” It is something we can observe and know, unless, of course, we dispose ourselves to avoid the truth.

    Also, thanks for pointing out that that the Scriptures argue not only for the design of macro marvels but also for the design of micro marvels. One wonders how the BioLogos crowd can continue to believe that God revealed himself in the cosmological realm and then went back into hiding in the biological realm.

  5. 5
    YawningBean says:

    I am a frequent reader of Uncommon Descent and really enjoy this blog’s thought-provoking articles. Perhaps I should not be commenting on this post because I have not been keeping up with the running dialogue on this subject. However, I would like to offer a small criticism (as in evaluation,assessment, appraisal, analysis): The Bible is not theology; it is the (“the” source for some Christians, “a” source for other Christians, but this is an altogether different topic) source of Christian Theology. ID may have explanatory power however, in the end, ID is about the study of origins and Theology is about the study of God. Not mutually exclusive but one necessarily cannot be equal to the other.

  6. 6
    Mung says:

    I would argue that it’s what is not found in the Bible that is important, but I don’t want to be accused of making a god of the gaps argument.

    😀

  7. 7
    bornagain77 says:

    The main line of attack from atheists, that I’ve personally witnessed on UD, has been for them to attack the trustworthiness of the Bible. Here are a few of the major notes (out of many) that I’ve collected to defend the trustworthiness of the Bible:

    Is Today’s Bible Authentic? – Eric Metaxas – video
    http://www.exploregod.com/is-t.....ntic-video

    Can You Trust the Bible Historically? – Is it a Game of Telephone? – What about the Gnostic Gospels?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHWVWw9gJT8

    How Reliable Is the New Testament? – Dr. Daniel Wallace (16:30 minute mark of video “The New Testament has an ‘embarrassment of riches’ compared to other ancient texts”) – video (Dr. Wallace publicly debated Bart Ehrman 3 times)
    http://www.watermark.org/media.....ment/2305/

    Who Wrote the Gospels? by Timothy McGrew – part 1 of 6 – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldvim1yjYM

    Accuracy Of The Bible – Feeding 5000 – video
    http://www.metacafe.com/w/6745194

    J. Warner Wallace Lectures on the Evidence for Christianity – video
    Description: Cold-case detective J. Warner Wallace, and author of Cold-Case Christianity, presented this lecture via Skype at Reasonable Faith Belfast on Monday, 3rd December 2012. He talks about the nature of evidence, possibility and reason, the chain of custody for the New Testament documents, and much more. The lecture is about an hour (with great visuals), followed by about 30 minutes of Q&A.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiYQzOypD9o

    The (Unmatched Historical Reliability of the) Resurrection of Jesus – Dr. Gary R. Habermas (On Guard Conference 2013) – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdmSQKyzgc

    The Physical Ashen Remains Of Sodom and Gomorrah – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y

    Jericho Unearthed – Bible Confirmed Once Again – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-cmdl4Cqdo

    And my favorite line of direct evidence:

    Shroud of Turin: Hoax or Proof of Resurrection? (feat. Photographer of Los Alamos, Barrie Schwortz) – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCyK2BzLy3Y

  8. 8
    bornagain77 says:

    The main line of attack from atheists, that I’ve personally witnessed on UD, has been for them to attack the trustworthiness of the Bible. Here are a few of the major notes (out of many) that I’ve collected to defend the trustworthiness of the Bible:

    Is Today’s Bible Authentic? – Eric Metaxas – video
    http://www.exploregod.com/is-t.....ntic-video

    Can You Trust the Bible Historically? – Is it a Game of Telephone? – What about the Gnostic Gospels?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHWVWw9gJT8

    How Reliable Is the New Testament? – Dr. Daniel Wallace (16:30 minute mark of video “The New Testament has an ‘embarrassment of riches’ compared to other ancient texts”) – video (Dr. Wallace publicly debated Bart Ehrman 3 times)
    http://www.watermark.org/media.....ment/2305/

    Who Wrote the Gospels? by Timothy McGrew – part 1 of 6 – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldvim1yjYM

    Accuracy Of The Bible – Feeding 5000 – video
    http://www.metacafe.com/w/6745194

    J. Warner Wallace Lectures on the Evidence for Christianity – video
    Description: Cold-case detective J. Warner Wallace, and author of Cold-Case Christianity, presented this lecture via Skype at Reasonable Faith Belfast on Monday, 3rd December 2012. He talks about the nature of evidence, possibility and reason, the chain of custody for the New Testament documents, and much more. The lecture is about an hour (with great visuals), followed by about 30 minutes of Q&A.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiYQzOypD9o

    The (Unmatched Historical Reliability of the) Resurrection of Jesus – Dr. Gary R. Habermas (On Guard Conference 2013) – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNdmSQKyzgc

    The Physical Ashen Remains Of Sodom and Gomorrah – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y

    Jericho Unearthed – Bible Confirmed Once Again – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-cmdl4Cqdo

  9. 9
    bornagain77 says:

    And my favorite line of direct evidence:

    Shroud of Turin: Hoax or Proof of Resurrection? (feat. Photographer of Los Alamos, Barrie Schwortz) – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCyK2BzLy3Y

  10. 10
    bornagain77 says:

    As well, throw in the little matter of the Bible being the only ancient book to get the creation of the universe right and then one suddenly finds that if the Bible can get the creation of all of reality right then it definitely garners respect as to what else it has to say:

    Genesis 1:1-3
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

    The best data we have [concerning the Big Bang] are exactly what I would have predicted, had I nothing to go on but the five books of Moses, the Psalms, the bible as a whole.
    Dr. Arno Penzias, Nobel Laureate in Physics – co-discoverer of the Cosmic Background Radiation – as stated to the New York Times on March 12, 1978

    “Certainly there was something that set it all off,,, I can’t think of a better theory of the origin of the universe to match Genesis”
    Robert Wilson – Nobel laureate – co-discover Cosmic Background Radiation

    “There is no doubt that a parallel exists between the big bang as an event and the Christian notion of creation from nothing.”
    George Smoot – Nobel laureate in 2006 for his work on COBE

    “Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.”
    Robert Jastrow – Founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute – Pg.15 ‘God and the Astronomers’

    ,,, ‘And if you’re curious about how Genesis 1, in particular, fairs. Hey, we look at the Days in Genesis as being long time periods, which is what they must be if you read the Bible consistently, and the Bible scores 4 for 4 in Initial Conditions and 10 for 10 on the Creation Events’
    Hugh Ross – Evidence For Intelligent Design Is Everywhere; video
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4347236

    “I now believe that the universe was brought into existence by an infinite intelligence. I believe that the universe’s intricate laws manifest what scientists have called the Mind of God. I believe that life and reproduction originate in a divine Source. Why do I believe this, given that I expounded and defended atheism for more than a half century? The short answer is this: this is the world picture, as I see it, that has emerged from modern science.”
    Anthony Flew – world’s leading intellectual atheist for most of his adult life until a few years shortly before his death
    The Case for a Creator – Lee Strobel (Nov. 25, 2012) – video
    http://www.saddleback.com/mc/m/ee32d/

    It is also very interesting to note that among all the ‘holy’ books, of all the major religions in the world, only the Holy Bible was correct in its claim for a transcendent origin of the universe. Some later ‘holy’ books, such as the Mormon text “Pearl of Great Price” and the Qur’an, copy the concept of a transcendent origin from the Bible but also include teachings that are inconsistent with that now established fact. (Hugh Ross; Why The Universe Is The Way It Is; Pg. 228; Chpt.9; note 5)

    The Uniqueness Of The Bible Among ‘holy books’ and Evidence of God in Creation (Hugh Ross) – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjYSz1OYG8Y

    The Most Important Verse in the Bible – Prager University – video
    http://www.prageruniversity.co.....Bible.html

    The Uniqueness of Genesis 1:1 – William Lane Craig – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBXdQCkISo0

  11. 11
    Mapou says:

    The Bible contains amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight, coded in a metaphorical language that appears to be saying one thing but has a completely different meaning. I don’t know who will be more surprised, atheists or Christians.

  12. 12
    bornagain77 says:

    Mapou @11, that was a very insightful comment and reminds me of this quote from Nikola Tesla:

    My Inventions: The Autobiography of Nikola Tesla
    Excerpt: At this time, as at many other times in the past, my thoughts turned towards my Mother’s teaching. The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My Mother had taught me to seek all truth in the Bible; therefore I devoted the next few months to the study of this work.
    One day, as I was roaming the mountains, I sought shelter from an approaching storm. The sky became overhung with heavy clouds, but somehow the rain was delayed until, all of a sudden, there was a lightening flash and a few moments after, a deluge. This observation set me thinking. It was manifest that the two phenomena were closely related, as cause and effect, and a little reflection led me to the conclusion that the electrical energy involved in the precipitation of the water was inconsiderable, the function of the lightening being much like that of a sensitive trigger. Here was a stupendous possibility of achievement. If we could produce electric effects of the required quality, this whole planet and the conditions of existence on it could be transformed. The sun raises the water of the oceans and winds drive it to distant regions where it remains in a state of most delicate balance. If it were in our power to upset it when and wherever desired, this might life sustaining stream could be at will controlled. We could irrigate arid deserts, create lakes and rivers, and provide motive power in unlimited amounts. This would be the most efficient way of harnessing the sun to the uses of man. The consummation depended on our ability to develop electric forces of the order of those in nature.
    It seemed a hopeless undertaking, but I made up my mind to try it and immediately on my return to the United States in the summer of 1892, after a short visit to my friends in Watford, England; work was begun which was to me all the more attractive, because a means of the same kind was necessary for the successful transmission of energy without wires. At this time I made a further careful study of the Bible, and discovered the key in Revelation. The first gratifying result was obtained in the spring of the succeeding year, when I reaching a tension of about 100,000,000 volts—one hundred million volts — with my conical coil, which I figured was the voltage of a flash of lightening.
    http://www.lucidcafe.com/libra.....uto05.html

    The 10 Inventions of Nikola Tesla That Changed The World
    http://www.activistpost.com/20.....-that.html

    also of note;

    I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily…. All my discoveries have been made in an answer to prayer.
    Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), considered by many to be the greatest scientist of all time

    Of somewhat related note are these two articles I read yesterday:

    In The Happy Atheist, PZ Myers Offers One Lousy Bargain – Casey Luskin – October 21, 2013
    Excerpt: what PZ is really saying comes down to this (again, my characterization): “I won’t make the crazy claim that Christianity is compatible with serial killing, if you won’t make the reasonable and justified claim that Christianity is compatible with science since, after all, it (Christianity) pretty much gave birth to science.” That seems like a pretty lousy bargain.
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....78121.html

    Kelvin’s conundrum: Is it possible to believe in God and science? – 20 October 2013
    Excerpt: Some years ago, the scientist Joseph Needham made an epic study of technological development in China. He wanted to find out why China, for all its early gifts of innovation, had fallen so far behind Europe in the advancement of science.
    He reluctantly came to the conclusion that European science had been spurred on by the widespread belief in a rational creative force, known as God, which made all scientific laws comprehensible,” Lennox said.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/0/24535331

  13. 13
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    Mapou: The Bible contains amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight, coded in a metaphorical language that appears to be saying one thing but has a completely different meaning.

    Can you provide some examples?

  14. 14
    bornagain77 says:

    CentralScrutinizer

    “Can you provide some examples?”

    And why was the example I provided from Nikola Tesla for his discovery of the wireless transmission of energy not good enough for you?

    “At this time I made a further careful study of the Bible, and discovered the key in Revelation.”

    And, if it is not good enough for you personally, why should we care that this stunning example is not good enough for you personally?

  15. 15
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    BA77, what was the “key” he found in the Book of Revelations?

  16. 16
    bornagain77 says:

    CS, “if” you are serious, study up on wireless transmission, and then read his autobiography for context, as to specifically where his mindset was, and then read Revelation with his mindset in your mind as you search for what passage could possibly of been the ‘key’ that unlocked the mystery of wireless transmission for him?,,,

    As to God revealing himself to us in his ‘living Word’, i.e. in the Bible, I have this personal testimony:

    Hebrews 4:12
    For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

    Strange But True Miracle Testimony

    It was in the summer of 1993, I was down and out in Ft. Myers, Florida. This was about the second year that I was homeless. I was staying at the Salvation Army in Ft. Myers working temporary day labor and paying 8 bucks a night to stay at the homeless shelter. Once again I had come up with yet another grand plan to defeat the destructive desires for drinking and using that had kept me broke and bound to the homeless street life. I was going to read the Bible cover to cover. Surely, this would cure me once and for all of my destructive desires. Every night before I would go to sleep I made sure that I would read though at least 30 minutes worth of the Bible. This was done in my bunk in the open dormitory of the salvation army. Well, after about a month or 6 weeks of reading in this fashion, I was getting pretty far into the Bible and had pretty much established myself, among the guys staying in the dorm with me, as some sort of Jesus Freak. One evening a man, who like me wasn’t fairing to well in this world, comes up to my bunk, as I was reading the Bible, and angrily says this to me,” Where Is God? Just Where Is God? If I knew where God was my life would be alright.” Calmly I told him the truth “Well I know that it may sound strange to you, but sometimes when I really need it, God seems to speaks directly to me from the Bible giving me guidance and comfort. I believe that He may speak directly to you since you seem to be in a pretty bad spot.” Then I closed the Bible and handed it to him. Then he asks me “Do you mean like this?” and he just randomly flips the Bible open, but instead of gently reading the first words his eyes landed on, as I thought he would do, he went and stabbed his finger down onto the page that the Bible had fell open to. Then, he looks over to me and asks me “Like That?” I nervously said, in spite of my reservations of the brazenness of his act, “I guess that will work.”. Well his brazenness paid off for his finger landed right on top of Job 23:3 which says “Oh, that I knew where I might find God, that I might come to His seat!”, (In fact that entire passage in Job 23 was related to his situation), Well, needless to say, we both were in awe about God revealing Himself to him in the ‘Living Word’ that clearly, so we went to the chaplain of the Salvation Army and got him his very own Bible. Let me end this testimony by saying that I believe God speaks to all people in many different ways. Don’t be upset if God doesn’t speak in this certain way to you. He very well could be speaking to you in special ways that He doesn’t speak to other people in. He could speak through your dreams, or visions, or He could speak to you through other people. He could be in that still small, intuitive, voice that speaks warnings to you every so often, or T.V., or radio, or the clouds, or even a lightning bolt could express His feelings and guidance to you, or etc… etc…. Here are some examples of the different ways God speaks into different people’s lives:

    Good Morning America “GodWinks – When God let’s you know He’s thinking of you” – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYJRddhzFG4

    (GodWinks) SQuire Rushnell & daughter of Emmett Kelly on FOX & FRDS 6/16/13
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....9xPfNtbrqw

    The point I’m trying to make clear is this. I’m firmly convinced that God does indeed desire to speak to each and every one of us, His children! BUT, we have to open our minds up enough to allow the possibility that God, the Father of all creation, might actually care enough for each of us, His children, to actually want to speak intimately to each of us from time to time. Think about it. What parent doesn’t talk personally to each and every one of their very own children every once in a while? It would be a very uncaring parent who did not ‘get personal’ every once in a while with each and every one of their children. How much more is this to be expected of God who loved us so much that he suffered the penalty of death for us so that we could always be with Him forever?
    Moreover, I truly believe it is a very powerful thing to have the Lord speak into our lives, more powerful than we can possibly understand right now. My reasoning for this belief is this: “He who speaks living words into the voids of our life, Is the very same One who spoke living words into the void of the night”

    Isaiah 45:18-19
    For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who established it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, ‘seek me in vain’; I, the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.”

    “Cause me to hear Your loving-kindness in the morning, for in You do I trust;
    cause me to know the way in which I should walk, for I lift up my soul to You.”
    -Psalm 143:8

    Fall Down Like Rain – music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP71W7jINpM

    of related note:

    FOREVER OURS – Book – synchronicities at death’s threshold
    Excerpt: FOREVER OURS presents these heartfelt accounts, exploring the synchronicities and communications on death’s threshold. Told in the voice of a compassionate scientist and medical expert who sees death every day, these stories eloquently convey the comfort Dr. Amatuzio has found in what she sees and hears. FOREVER OURS offers readers hope, comfort and profound lessons on living.
    http://www.foreverours.com/

    Dr. Janis Amatuzio author of FOREVER OURS – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtnywJHLrLY

  17. 17
    bornagain77 says:

    corrected link

    FOREVER OURS – Book – synchronicities at death’s threshold
    http://books.google.com/books?id=YQqyXUg0_10C

  18. 18
    Charles Smith says:

    The Bible is good theology and is backed up with the words of the prophet Alma in the Book of Mormon when he was confronted with an individual who said that religious doctrines were the result “of a frenzied mind and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so.” (Alma 30:16)
    Alma contracted with: “Thou hast had sign enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show me a sign, when ye have the testimonies of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth and all things that are upon the face of it, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.” (Alma 30:44)
    To me saying that the earth and the universe is not by design of a God is like saying a watch is not evidence of a watchmaker. The Bible not only tells us that the earth was created by Johavah but why it was created. That is, to my mind, even more important than knowing that is was created.

  19. 19
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    BA77: CS, “if” [sic] you are serious, study up on wireless transmission, and then read his autobiography for context, as to specifically where his mindset was, and then read Revelation with his mindset in your mind as you search for what passage could possibly of been the ‘key’ that unlocked the mystery of wireless transmission for him?,,,

    People get inspired by this or that all the time. And I have no doubt that Tesla (a brilliant and complex man to be sure) may have seen something in the Book of Revelation that sparked (pardon the pun) some idea in his fertile mind. However, that’s a far cry from what Mapou says, “The Bible contains amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight”

    I asked for specifics. To which you replied by pointing me to Tesla’s “key.” It’s up to you to demonstrate that his “key” fits Mapou’s description. I’m not saying it’s not true or possible. But citing Tesla’s biography is not a substantiation. If you are serious, please at least attempt to describe exactly what the “key” is in your own words, and how it fits Mapou’s claim.

  20. 20
    bornagain77 says:

    CS, And thus that is why I put the parenthesis on “if” before saying ‘you are serious’. I don’t care what you believe. In fact, as much crap as I’ve had to endure from atheists and skeptics through the years, I could care less what you personally believe. That’s between you and God. The main point is I believe what Mapou highlighted is true and gave an example from Tesla’s own testimony for the invention of wireless, as well as an example from my own life, as to why I find it to be true. Accept or reject it if you want. That is your personal choice and I don’t care. It is not my job to baby sit every single doubt you have or you can dream up. I’ve done my job as far as showing you that there may be some precious gems you have overlooked in the Bible.

  21. 21
  22. 22
    Mapou says:

    Me:

    The Bible contains amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight, coded in a metaphorical language that appears to be saying one thing but has a completely different meaning.

    CentralScrutinizer:

    Can you provide some examples?

    Well, here are just a few that I have been able to identify so far:

    1. Chapters 2-3 of the book of Revelation (letters to the seven churches of Asia) are a partial description of the functioning and organization of the brain.

    2. Chapters 3-6 of the book of Zechariah (Joshua the high priest, Zerubbabel, two olive trees, the branch, stone with 7 eyes, 7-lamp golden menorah, flying scroll, four chariots, etc.) are a description of the functioning and organization of the brain’s hierarchical memory. By the way, Zechariah means “Yahweh Remembers”.

    3. Chapter 4 of the book of Revelation explains that we are immersed in an immense 4-dimensional sea of energetic particles (a sea of glass, like crystal) and the sea is composed of four types of particles. This sea is responsible for electric, magnetic and gravitational phenomena. Also, nothing could move if this lattice did not exist.

    4. Ezekiel’s book is a treasure trove of particle physics knowledge. I have been able to figure out that the electron, considered a fundamental particle in the Standard Model, is actually four particles in one, each with 1/4 the charge of the whole particle. I think I know what the “wheel within a wheel” metaphor means.

    There is plenty more where those came from. It’s mind boggling and scary at the same time. Have fun.

  23. 23
    Alan Fox says:

    Breaking cover because this is too good to pass up!

    Oh Philip, you dissembler!

  24. 24
    CentralScrutinizer says:

    vjtorley,

    Hmm, I’ve been Mapou’s writings and I’ll I can say is:

    What has he been smoking?

    Nothing impressive there, IMO. Whatever.

  25. 25
    bornagain77 says:

    Mr Fox, gloating are we?

    Psalm 35:21
    They sneer at me and say, “Aha! Aha! With our own eyes we have seen it.”

    Gloating over a perceived mistake, if there truly is one, betrays your less than forthright motive in all this(which is par for the course with you for anything to do with God isn’t it?) But anyways, despite your severely misplaced joy, for the sake of clarity I could not find when the revision (addition or was it subtraction?) was made. i.e. exactly where did this revised version first appear and was it under Tesla’s approval when it appeared? Your glee while certainly misplaced, seems a bit premature, but I will certainly correct my notes if I can find evidence of willful deliberate fraud in the revision but I find no direct mention by Tesla or by anyone else (save you). In fact wikiquote itself has the chapter in question (with the Mom quote in, but the revelation quote missing):

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

    as does this site have the entire chapter:

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades......la_16b.htm

    I’ve looked around a bit, and found that the book was originally written from 6 articles from a magazine and also found that Tesla augmented an article (in another context) at one time. Which again brings up the question of when was the revision done and by whom?,,, But again if it is a honest mistake on my part, thanks for the correction, but be assured the gloating part of you and your cohorts is severely misplaced and reveals your bias.

    Of note, could you be a champ for me and check and see if these following facts are true?:

    Nikola Tesla was born on 10 July (O.S. 28 June) 1856 to Serbian parents in the village of Smiljan, Austrian Empire (modern-day Croatia). His father, Milutin Tesla, was a Serbian Orthodox priest.[15] Tesla’s mother, ?uka Tesla (née Mandi?), whose father was also a Serbian Orthodox priest,[16] had a talent for making home craft tools, mechanical appliances, and the ability to memorize Serbian epic poems. ?uka had never received a formal education.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N......931885.29

    Mr. Fox, You know we can’t have any undo Christian influences tarnishing the early life and upbringing of Nikola Tesla can we? Some people may get the wrong idea you know! 🙂

  26. 26
    Mapou says:

    CentralScrutinizer:

    Hmm, I’ve been Mapou’s writings and I’ll I can say is:

    What has he been smoking?

    Nothing impressive there, IMO. Whatever.

    I do smoke pot frequently. That may explain your reaction. 😀

  27. 27
    bornagain77 says:

    Mr. Fox, the source of the mistake is found:

    The Strange Life of Nikola Tesla

    These web pages all derive from a common source titled The Strange Life of Nikola Tesla, a modified version of My Inventions, the text of which first appeared in a book titled The Wall of Light Nikola Tesla and the Venusian Space Ship The X-12 by Arthur Matthews. Published in 1973, the text “The Life of Tesla (by Nikola Tesla)” comprises Part One of that book.

    The Strange Life of Nikola Tesla is a typescript of “The Life of Tesla (by Nikola Tesla), published in booklet form, a copy of which was found in a used bookstore by John Penner in 1994. The text was subsequently found to contain a number of significant errors, omissions, revisions and also some additions that did not appear in the original serial text as published in the ELECTRICAL EXPERIMENTER magazine. If you are responsible for the content of one of the following websites, please consider replacing your present copy with the original authorized version of Tesla’s autobiography. Click here for a nearly unabridged version of My Inventions in ASCII text, MS Word, PDF, and HTML formats.
    http://www.tfcbooks.com/special/mi_link.htm

    He goes on to list many websites that contain the error.

    Sorry if I have misled anyone, but hopefully you can see that it was an honest mistake on my part (not that any of that really matters to you does it?)

  28. 28
    Alan Fox says:

    Sorry if I have misled anyone, but hopefully you can see that it was an honest mistake on my part

    Nicely said, Phil. I’m pleased to see a straightforward acknowledgement of an error and an unadorned apology.

    (not that any of that really matters to you does it?)

    Well, almost! 😉

  29. 29
    bornagain77 says:

    Mr. Fox, if I recall when I visited the website you listed I was accused, personally, of willful distortion. Is apology only a one sided affair in the atheistic mindset? It is I who was slandered not you! (not that any of that really matters to you does it?)

  30. 30
    bornagain77 says:

    To put some meat on the bones to Mapou’s claim that the Bible contains,,

    “amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight,,,”

    And dropping the metaphor part of his quote for now,, I’ve already laid out in post 10 how Genesis postulated a creation event for the universe long before scientists were forced to admit the evidence strongly indicates that the universe “commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy.” In fact at the 1:58 minute of the following video,,,

    John Lennox – Science Is Impossible Without God – Quotes – video
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6287271/

    John Lennox states

    “The Bible is frequently dismissed as being anti-scientific because it makes no predictions. Oh no, that is incorrect. It makes a brilliant prediction. For centuries it has been saying there was a beginning. And if scientists had taken that a bit more seriously they might have discovered evidence for a beginning a lot earlier than they did.”

    Indeed, if scientists would have taken Genesis 1:1 more seriously they would have found hidden in Genesis 1:1 is the number pi

    Fascinating Bible code – Pi and natural log – video (of note: correct exponent for base of Nat Log found in John 1:1 is 10^40, not 10^65 as stated in the video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg9LiiSVaes

    This following website has the complete working out of the math of Pi and e in the Bible, in the Hebrew and Greek languages respectively, for Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1:
    http://www.biblemaths.com/pag03_pie/

    Some may say, ‘So what if pi is correct to the first 5 decimal places in Genesis 1:1?’, but to that I would answer that with the discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR), the universe is now found to be a circular sphere which ‘coincidentally’ corresponds to the circle of pi (instead of some other ‘random’ shape as would be predicted in atheism):

    The Known Universe by AMNH – video – (please note the ‘centrality’ of the Earth in the universe in the video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

    The first full-sky image (Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation – CMBR) from Europe’s Planck telescope – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5BeGg4xWVM

    Moreover, this ’roundness’ for the universe was predicted in the Bible long before it was ever discovered:

    Proverbs 8:26-27
    While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields, or the primeval dust of the world. When He prepared the heavens, I was there, when He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

    As well, an unexpected flatness for the universe, which also ‘coincidentally’ corresponds to pi (with the diameter in pi), was recently found;

    Did the Universe Hyperinflate? – Hugh Ross – April 2010
    Excerpt: Perfect geometric flatness is where the space-time surface of the universe exhibits zero curvature (see figure 3). Two meaningful measurements of the universe’s curvature parameter, ½k, exist. Analysis of the 5-year database from WMAP establishes that -0.0170 < ½k < 0.0068.4 Weak gravitational lensing of distant quasars by intervening galaxies places -0.031 < ½k < 0.009.5 Both measurements confirm the universe indeed manifests zero or very close to zero geometric curvature,,,
    http://www.reasons.org/did-universe-hyperinflate

    The curvature of the space time of the universe is 'flat' to at least 1 in 10^15 places of accuracy
    http://books.google.com/books?.....38;f=false

    This exceptional ‘flatness’ found for the universe was also predicted in the Bible long before it was discovered by modern science:

    Job 38:4-5
    “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
    Tell me, if you understand.
    Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
    Who stretched a measuring line across it?

    This following video shows that the universe also has a ‘unexpected’ characteristic of expanding/growing equally in all places, which ‘coincidentally’ strongly corresponds to Log ‘e’ in John 1:1. Log ‘e’ is the constant that is used in equations of math, specifically compound interest for banking, for finding what the maximum rates of growth are:

    Centrality of Earth Within The 4-Dimensional Space-Time of General Relativity – video
    http://www.metacafe.com/w/8421879

    This following video shows how finely tuned the ’4-Dimensional’ expansion, i.e. ‘growth’, of the universe is (1 in 10^120);

    Fine Tuning Of Dark Energy and Mass of the Universe – Hugh Ross – video
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4007682

  31. 31
    bornagain77 says:

    Here are the verses in the Bible, which were written over 2000 years before the discovery of the finely tuned expansion of the universe by ‘Dark Energy’, that speak of God alone ‘Stretching out the Heavens’; Job 9:8; Isaiah 40:22; Isaiah 40:24; Isaiah 48:13; Zechariah 12:1; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 42:5; Isaiah 45:12; Isaiah 51:13; Jeremiah 51:15; Jeremiah 10:12. The following verse is one of my favorites out of the group of verses:

    Job 9:8
    He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.

    Moreover, both pi and e are found in Euler’s Identity, the ‘most enigmatic equation in mathematics’ (Which was discovered by Leonard Euler, who was a devout Christian, by the way)

    0 = 1 + e^(i*pi) — Euler

    Moreover, it is now found that ‘it take(s) an infinite amount of logic to figure out what one stinky tiny bit of space-time is going to do’

    “It always bothers me that in spite of all this local business, what goes on in a tiny, no matter how tiny, region of space, and no matter how tiny a region of time, according to laws as we understand them today, it takes a computing machine an infinite number of logical operations to figure out. Now how can all that be going on in that tiny space? Why should it take an infinite amount of logic to figure out what one stinky tiny bit of space-time is going to do?”
    – Richard Feynman – one of the founding fathers of QED (Quantum Electrodynamics)
    Quote taken from the 6:45 minute mark of the following video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obCjODeoLVw

    I don’t know about Feynman, but as for myself, being a Christian Theist, I find it rather comforting to know that it takes an ‘infinite amount of logic to figure out what one stinky tiny bit of space-time is going to do’:

    John1:1
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    of note: ‘the Word’ in John1:1 is translated from ‘Logos’ in Greek. Logos is the root word from which we derive our modern word logic
    http://etymonline.com/?term=logic

    Moreover, to the consternation of materialists/atheists the foundation of reality is not physical/material in its basis but is now found to be ‘information theoretic’ in its makeup, thus further conforming to what John 1:1 predicted for centuries before it was discovered:

    “It from bit symbolizes the idea that every item of the physical world has at bottom – at a very deep bottom, in most instances – an immaterial source and explanation; that which we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes-no questions and the registering of equipment-evoked responses; in short, that things physical are information-theoretic in origin.”
    John Archibald Wheeler

    Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe?
    Excerpt: In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: “In the beginning was the Word.”
    Anton Zeilinger – a leading expert in quantum teleportation:
    http://www.metanexus.net/archi.....linger.pdf

    Digital Physics Argument for God’s Existence – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Xsp4FRgas

    Digital Physics Argument
    Premise 1: Simulations can only exist is a computer or a mind.
    Premise 2: The universe is a simulation.
    Premise 3: A simulation on a computer still must be simulated in a mind.
    Premise 4: Therefore, the universe is a simulation in a mind (2,3).
    Premise 5: This mind is what we call God.
    Conclusion: Therefore, God exists.

    Thus to Mapou’s original claim ,,

    that the Bible contains,, “amazing scientific knowledge that will shake the foundations of civilization when they are finally revealed. The knowledge is hidden in plain sight,,,”

    All I can do is echo John Lennox’s sentiment about Genesis:

    And if scientists had taken that a bit more seriously they might have discovered evidence for a beginning a lot earlier than they did.”

    Verse and Music;

    Job 12:13
    To God belong wisdom and power; counsel and understanding are his.

    Sweetly Broken Jeremy Riddle – music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5_Z3ZZYLDc

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