Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Just Too Simple

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For me, the real argument for intelligent design has always been extremely simple, and doesn’t require any advanced mathematics or microbiology to grasp. The video below makes this argument in the simplest, clearest way I can make it. My uncle Harry and aunt Martha like the video, and can’t understand why so many intelligent scientists aren’t impressed by this very simple argument.

Of course the problem is, the argument is just too simple, most scientists aren’t interested in arguments that their uncle Harry and aunt Martha can understand, they are looking for arguments that require some advanced technology, that show some understanding of evolutionary theory or microbiology that sets them apart from uncle Harry and aunt Martha. And indeed, most of the important scientific advances in our understanding of our world have required advanced technology and advanced degrees to achieve, but it is the curse of intelligent design that the strongest and clearest arguments are just too simple to get much traction in the scientific world. Of course there are many good arguments for ID being made now which do require advanced technology, and advanced degrees to understand, and I’m very grateful for the scientists who are making them: it’s clear to me if ID ever becomes widely accepted in the scientific world, it will be because of their writings, and not because of the simple arguments I am making. If I could figure out a way to use some more advanced mathematics in my arguments, if I could figure out a way to restate the basic point in such a way that uncle Harry and aunt Martha couldn’t understand it, I might make some progress (I don’t really have an uncle Harry or an aunt Martha, by the way, but many people do). Perhaps it would help if I linked to my resume, or to my finite element program, to show that I am capable of doing more advanced mathematics, even if I haven’t used any of it in this video.

The arguments for ID which require advanced science to understand are powerful, but never completely definitive: they look at small portions of the picture through a microscope. To make the completely definitive argument you have to step back and look at the big picture, but, alas, then the picture becomes too clear, and too simple.

Added later:

As I expected, a couple of commentors are trying to make the issue more complicated than it is. Rather than try to answer each objection one at a time, I would refer readers to this ENV post, where I point out that every attempt to argue that the spontaneous rearrangement of atoms on a barren planet into computers, books and airplanes does not violate the second law, can equally be applied to argue that a tornado running backward, turning rubble into houses and cars, would not violate it either. So unless you are willing to argue that tornados running backward would not violate the second law, don’t bother. And even if you are, it is obvious that a tornado running backward would violate some basic law of Nature, if not the second law as formulated by humans, then at least the basic natural principle behind the second law, and what has happened on Earth would clearly violate the same law, whatever it is.

[youtube 259r-iDckjQ]

Comments
WJM: An avalanche that results in a battleship by blind chance plus necessity would be a sight to see! KFkairosfocus
January 7, 2013
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Simply put, we know intelligent design exists - humans (at least, if not other animals to some degree) employ it. We know that intelligent design as humans employ it can generate phenomena that is easily discernible from phenomena that is not generated by intelligent design. Anyone who argues that a battleship's complexity is not discernible from the complexity found in the materials after an avalanche is either committing intellectual dishonesty or willful self-delusion. ID - as humans employ it - is a scientific fact. Indeed, science is the process of employing intelligent design to investigate phenomena. Without ID, science wouldn't exist.William J Murray
January 7, 2013
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The argument from Darwinists that pouring raw energy into a open system makes evolution inevitable is simply 'not even wrong' as an argument. Raw energy destroys rather than builds functional complexity:
Evolution Vs. Thermodynamics - Open System Refutation - Thomas Kindell - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4143014
Energy to be useful for life must be precisely controlled and directed:
Peer-Reviewed Articles in International Journal of Design & Nature - Casey Luskin - February, 2012 Excerpt: Truman further notes that "McIntosh has done us a major service by reminding us that energy processing in useful manners requires specialized machines." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/peer-reviewed_a056001.html The ATP Synthase Enzyme - exquisite motor necessary for first life - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KxU63gcF4
Just how precisely controlled the energy of the cell is is revealed by the following:
Optimal Design of Metabolism - Dr. Fazale Rana - July 2012 Excerpt: A new study further highlights the optimality of the cell’s metabolic systems. Using the multi-dimension optimization theory, researchers evaluated the performance of the metabolic systems of several different bacteria. The data generated by monitoring the flux (movement) of compounds through metabolic pathways (like the movement of cars along the roadways) allowed researchers to assess the behavior of cellular metabolism. They determined that metabolism functions optimally for a system that seeks to accomplish multiple objectives. It looks as if the cell’s metabolism is optimized to operate under a single set of conditions. At the same time, it can perform optimally with relatively small adjustments to the metabolic operations when the cell experiences a change in condition. http://www.reasons.org/articles/the-optimal-design-of-metabolism
This stunning energy efficiency of a cell is found to be optimal across all life domains, thus strongly suggesting that all life on earth was Intelligently Designed for maximal efficiency in mind instead of reflecting a pattern of somewhat random distribution that would be expected if evolution occurred:
Mean mass-specific metabolic rates are strikingly similar across life's major domains: Evidence for life's metabolic optimum Excerpt: Here, using the largest database to date, for 3,006 species that includes most of the range of biological diversity on the planet—from bacteria to elephants, and algae to sapling trees—we show that metabolism displays a striking degree of homeostasis across all of life. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2572558/
The complexity being found in the metabolic/biochemeical pathways of the cell is jaw dropping:
Map Of Major Metabolic Pathways In A Cell - Diagram http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/img/assets/4202/MetabolicPathways_6_17_04_.pdf ExPASy - Biochemical Pathways - interactive schematic http://web.expasy.org/cgi-bin/pathways/show_thumbnails.pl
bornagain77
January 7, 2013
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As well, we now have very strong reason to believe that quantum information is 'conserved',,,
Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html
Moreover it is now found that it is quantum information/entanglement itself which is constraining the cell to be so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium:
Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA - Elisabeth Rieper - short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/
Direct empirical confirmation is here:
Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties?-A Galaxy Insight - 2009 Excerpt: DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn't be able to.,,, The recognition of similar sequences in DNA’s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/04/does-dna-have-t.html DNA Can Discern Between Two Quantum States, Research Shows - June 2011 Excerpt: -- DNA -- can discern between quantum states known as spin. - The researchers fabricated self-assembling, single layers of DNA attached to a gold substrate. They then exposed the DNA to mixed groups of electrons with both directions of spin. Indeed, the team's results surpassed expectations: The biological molecules reacted strongly with the electrons carrying one of those spins, and hardly at all with the others. The longer the molecule, the more efficient it was at choosing electrons with the desired spin, while single strands and damaged bits of DNA did not exhibit this property. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110331104014.htm
Moreover, as if the preceding was not enough, quantum entanglement cannot be explained by any imaginable within space-time physical/material processes:
Looking Beyond Space and Time to Cope With Quantum Theory - (Oct. 28, 2012) Excerpt: To derive their inequality, which sets up a measurement of entanglement between four particles, the researchers considered what behaviours are possible for four particles that are connected by influences that stay hidden and that travel at some arbitrary finite speed. Mathematically (and mind-bogglingly), these constraints define an 80-dimensional object. The testable hidden influence inequality is the boundary of the shadow this 80-dimensional shape casts in 44 dimensions. The researchers showed that quantum predictions can lie outside this boundary, which means they are going against one of the assumptions. Outside the boundary, either the influences can't stay hidden, or they must have infinite speed.,,, The remaining option is to accept that (quantum) influences must be infinitely fast,,, "Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them," says Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the University of Geneva, Switzerland,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htm
The following also addresses Rolf Landauer's false contention that 'information is physical':
Scientists show how to erase information without using energy - January 2011 Excerpt: Until now, scientists have thought that the process of erasing information requires energy. But a new study shows that, theoretically, information can be erased without using any energy at all. Instead, the cost of erasure can be paid in terms of another conserved quantity, such as spin angular momentum.,,, "Landauer said that information is physical because it takes energy to erase it. We are saying that the reason it is physical has a broader context than that.", Vaccaro explained. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-scientists-erase-energy.html
This following research goes even further and provides far more solid falsification for Rolf Landauer's contention that information encoded in a computer is merely physical (merely 'emergent' from a material basis) since he believed it always required energy to erase it;
Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy - June 2011 Excerpt: No heat, even a cooling effect; In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that "more than complete knowledge" from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, "This doesn't mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine." The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what's known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says "We're working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110601134300.htm
Further note:
Are Humans merely Turing Machines? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cvQeiN7DqBC0Z3PG6wo5N5qbsGGI3YliVBKwf7yJ_RU/edit
Music and verse:
High School Musical 2 - You are the music in me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAXaQrh7m1o Acts 17:28 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
bornagain77
January 7, 2013
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A few notes: Dr. Morowitz did a probability calculation working from the thermodynamic perspective, with a already existing cell, and came up with this number:
DID LIFE START BY CHANCE? Excerpt: Molecular biophysicist, Horold Morowitz (Yale University), calculated the odds of life beginning under natural conditions (spontaneous generation). He calculated, if one were to take the simplest living cell and break every chemical bond within it, the odds that the cell would reassemble under ideal natural conditions (the best possible chemical environment) would be one chance in 10^100,000,000,000. You will have probably have trouble imagining a number so large, so Hugh Ross provides us with the following example. If all the matter in the Universe was converted into building blocks of life, and if assembly of these building blocks were attempted once a microsecond for the entire age of the universe. Then instead of the odds being 1 in 10^100,000,000,000, they would be 1 in 10^99,999,999,916 (also of note: 1 with 100 billion zeros following would fill approx. 20,000 encyclopedias) http://members.tripod.com/~Black_J/chance.html Punctured cell will never reassemble - Jonathan Wells - 2:40 mark of video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKoiivfe_mo
Also of interest to the discussion is the information content that is derived in a cell when working from a thermodynamic perspective:
“a one-celled bacterium, e. coli, is estimated to contain the equivalent of 100 million pages of Encyclopedia Britannica. Expressed in information in science jargon, this would be the same as 10^12 bits of information. In comparison, the total writings from classical Greek Civilization is only 10^9 bits, and the largest libraries in the world – The British Museum, Oxford Bodleian Library, New York Public Library, Harvard Widenier Library, and the Moscow Lenin Library – have about 10 million volumes or 10^12 bits.” – R. C. Wysong 'The information content of a simple cell has been estimated as around 10^12 bits, comparable to about a hundred million pages of the Encyclopedia Britannica." Carl Sagan, "Life" in Encyclopedia Britannica: Macropaedia (1974 ed.), pp. 893-894
of note: The 10^12 bits of information number for a bacterium is derived from entropic considerations, which is, due to the tightly integrated relationship between information and entropy, (IMHO) considered one of the most accurate measures of the transcendent quantum information/entanglement constraining a 'simple' life form to be so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium.
"Is there a real connection between entropy in physics and the entropy of information? ....The equations of information theory and the second law are the same, suggesting that the idea of entropy is something fundamental..." Siegfried, Dallas Morning News, 5/14/90, [Quotes Robert W. Lucky, Ex. Director of Research, AT&T, Bell Laboratories & John A. Wheeler, of Princeton & Univ. of TX, Austin]
For calculations, from the thermodynamic perspective, please see the following site:
Moleular Biophysics – Information theory. Relation between information and entropy: - Setlow-Pollard, Ed. Addison Wesley Excerpt: Linschitz gave the figure 9.3 x 10^12 cal/deg or 9.3 x 10^12 x 4.2 joules/deg for the entropy of a bacterial cell. Using the relation H = S/(k In 2), we find that the information content is 4 x 10^12 bits. Morowitz' deduction from the work of Bayne-Jones and Rhees gives the lower value of 5.6 x 10^11 bits, which is still in the neighborhood of 10^12 bits. Thus two quite different approaches give rather concordant figures. http://www.astroscu.unam.mx/~angel/tsb/molecular.htm
Quotes of Note:
“From the beginning of this book we have emphasized the enormous information content of even the simplest living systems. The information cannot in our view be generated by what are often called ‘natural’ processes, as for instance through meteorological and chemical processes occurring at the surface of a lifeless planet. As well as a suitable physical and chemical environment, a large initial store of information was also needed. We have argued that the requisite information came from an ‘intelligence’, - Sir Fred Hoyle, Chandra Wickramasinghe - A Theory of Cosmic Creationism - pg. 150 “The statistical probability that organic structures and the most precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be generated by accident, is zero.” Ilya Prigogine, Gregoire Nicolis, and Agnes Babloyantz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28. (Sourced Quote)
It is also interesting to note that comparing the possible configurations of particles that cannot contain life with those that can contain life is literally far beyond what can be meaningfully imagined by humans.
The Humpty-Dumpty Effect: A Revolutionary Paper with Far-Reaching Implications - Paul Nelson - October 23, 2012 Excerpt: Tompa and Rose calculate the "total number of possible distinct patterns of interactions," using yeast, a unicellular eukaryote, as their model system; this "total number" is the size of the space that must be searched. With approximately 4,500 proteins in yeast, the interactome search space "is on the order of 10^7200, an unimaginably large number," they write -- but "more realistic" estimates, they continue, are "yet more complicated." Proteins present many possible surfaces for chemical interaction. "In all," argue Tompa and Rose, "an average protein would have approximately 3540 distinguishable interfaces," and if one uses this number for the interactome space calculation, the result is 10 followed by the exponent 7.9 x 10^10.,,, the numbers preclude formation of a functional interactome (of 'simple' life) by trial and error,, within any meaningful span of time. This numerical exercise...is tantamount to a proof that the cell does not organize by random collisions of its interacting constituents. (i.e. that life did not arise, nor operate, by chance!) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/a_revolutionary065521.html
Moreover it is now found that,,,
Life Leads the Way to Invention - Feb. 2010 Excerpt: a cell is 10,000 times more energy-efficient than a transistor. “In one second, a cell performs about 10 million energy-consuming chemical reactions, which altogether require about one picowatt (one millionth millionth of a watt) of power.” This and other amazing facts lead to an obvious conclusion: inventors ought to look to life for ideas.,,, Essentially, cells may be viewed as circuits that use molecules, ions, proteins and DNA instead of electrons and transistors. That analogy suggests that it should be possible to build electronic chips – what Sarpeshkar calls “cellular chemical computers” – that mimic chemical reactions very efficiently and on a very fast timescale. http://creationsafaris.com/crev201002.htm#20100226a
What makes the preceding finding interesting is that computer chips are fast approaching 'Landauer's limit' and thus the integrated coding between the DNA, RNA and Proteins of the cell must apparently be ingeniously 'programmed' along the very stringent guidelines laid out by Charles Bennett from IBM for ‘reversible computation’ in order to achieve such amazing energy efficiency. (Of note: Bennett was also behind elucidating the basics of Quantum Teleportation)
Notes on Landauer’s principle, reversible computation, and Maxwell’s Demon - Charles H. Bennett Excerpt: Of course, in practice, almost all data processing is done on macroscopic apparatus, dissipating macroscopic amounts of energy far in excess of what would be required by Landauer’s principle. Nevertheless, some stages of biomolecular information processing, such as transcription of DNA to RNA, appear to be accomplished by chemical reactions that are reversible not only in principle but in practice.,,,, http://www.hep.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/QM/bennett_shpmp_34_501_03.pdf
The amazing energy efficiency possible with ‘reversible computation’ has been known about since Charles Bennett laid out the principles for such reversible programming in 1973, but as far as I know, due to the extreme level of complexity involved for achieving such ingenious ‘reversible computation’, has yet to be accomplished in any meaningful way by humans for our computer programs even to this day:
Reversible computing Excerpt: Reversible computing is a model of computing where the computational process to some extent is reversible, i.e., time-invertible.,,, Although achieving this goal presents a significant challenge for the design, manufacturing, and characterization of ultra-precise new physical mechanisms for computing, there is at present no fundamental reason to think that this goal cannot eventually be accomplished, allowing us to someday build computers that generate much less than 1 bit's worth of physical entropy (and dissipate much less than kT ln 2 energy to heat) for each useful logical operation that they carry out internally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing#The_reversibility_of_physics_and_reversible_computing
As well, a major stumbling block in materialistic thinking, a stumbling block held by Rolf Landauer himself, is that 'information is physical' (that information 'emerges' from a material basis), yet it is now found that information is its own distinct physical entity which is more foundational to reality than material particles are.
Ions have been teleported successfully for the first time by two independent research groups Excerpt: In fact, copying isn't quite the right word for it. In order to reproduce the quantum state of one atom in a second atom, the original has to be destroyed. This is unavoidable - it is enforced by the laws of quantum mechanics, which stipulate that you can't 'clone' a quantum state. In principle, however, the 'copy' can be indistinguishable from the original (that was destroyed),,, Atom takes a quantum leap - 2009 Excerpt: Ytterbium ions have been 'teleported' over a distance of a metre.,,, "What you're moving is information, not the actual atoms," says Chris Monroe, from the Joint Quantum Institute at the University of Maryland in College Park and an author of the paper. But as two particles of the same type differ only in their quantum states, the transfer of quantum information is equivalent to moving the first particle to the location of the second. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2171769/posts Quantum Entanglement and Teleportation - Anton Zeilinger - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5705317/
bornagain77
January 7, 2013
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F/N: This came up recently, and here is my main comment. KFkairosfocus
January 6, 2013
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Sewell:
Basically his error is the assumption that the second law only applies to thermal entropy, and every other type can be converted to units of thermal entropy, e.g., the increase in entropy due to a tornado hitting town can be expressed in units of Joules/degree Kelvin, which makes absolutely no sense.
The second law applies to total entropy, and it's very well established that different types of entropy are interconvertable. The classic example is probably adiabatic compression of an ideal gas (which converts some of its configurational entropy into thermal entropy) and adiabatic expansion (which converts thermal entropy to configurational), but there are lots more. I gave you an example of "carbon entropy" being converted to thermal entropy over a year and a half ago. In fact, if you'd taken gravity and density differences into account in the analysis of diffusion in a sold, you'd have seen the same effect at work there. For a more extreme (and more directly relevant) example of the interconvertability of different types of entropy, consider the application of thermodynamics to informational entropy. Landauer's principle holds that for each bit of information that is erased (which corresponds to a 1-bit decrease in Shannon entropy), there must be a compensating increase in thermal (or other) entropy of at least k*ln(2)=9.57e-24 Joules/Kelvin. This is quite difficult to test, because the change in thermal entropy is so small; but recent results seem to support the principle (see The unavoidable cost of computation revealed, in Nature News & comment, 07 March 2012). This may make no sense at all to you; I'd argue that this just means you haven't wrapped your head around the relevant physics. If you do any real amount of physics, you'll run into lots of things that run counter to intuition, and you'll get used to the fact that usually it's your intuition that's wrong. I'll give you a hint: all of the entropies that the second law relates to are basically logarithmic measures of how many distinct states a system can be in (sometimes described as disorder), and since they all measure the same fundamental thing, it's inevitable that they all have equivalent units.Gordon Davisson
January 6, 2013
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Granville, thank you for your response.
In Classical and Modern Physics, Kenneth Ford [7] writes "There are a variety of ways in which the second law of thermodynamics can be stated, and we have encountered two of them so far: (1) For an isolated system, the direction of spontaneous change is from an arrangement of lesser probability to an arrangement of greater probability. (2) For an isolated system, the direction of spontaneous change is from order to disorder".
1. These are both for isolated systems. 2. Neither order nor disorder is a defined term. Yet in the linked:
"Entropy" sounds much more scientific than "order", but note that, in this paper, "order" is simply defined as the opposite of "entropy".
Begging the question. On what basis do you [or Ford] define order to be the opposite of entropy, and how does that definition hold across the various formulations of the second law? Isn't the real subject of interest here one of equilibrium and how to convert a non-equilibrium environment into one that can perform work?Mung
January 6, 2013
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Mung, You are right that there is more than one formulation, but the more general ones ARE about order/disorder. For example, see the quote from Classical and Modern Physics in footnote #3 of this article.Granville Sewell
January 6, 2013
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The Second Law for Complete IDiots 1. There is more than one formulation of the second law. 2. The second law is not about order/disorder.Mung
January 6, 2013
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Vjtorley, Looks like this is similar to the Styer article, which is critiqued in the last half of my other video , as well as point #2 of this ENV article, and several earlier articles referenced therein. Basically his error is the assumption that the second law only applies to thermal entropy, and every other type can be converted to units of thermal entropy, e.g., the increase in entropy due to a tornado hitting town can be expressed in units of Joules/degree Kelvin, which makes absolutely no sense.Granville Sewell
January 6, 2013
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Here's what I want to know: How many joules does it take for sex to evolve?Mung
January 6, 2013
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"If we had something like maxwell’s demon we could convert the more probable system to a less probable system. Evolution serves the purpose of the demon. No violation of the second law required. Simple." Yet,,, The GS (genetic selection) Principle - David L. Abel - 2009 Excerpt: The GS (Genetic Selection) Principle states that biological selection must occur at the nucleotide-sequencing molecular-genetic level of 3'5' phosphodiester bond formation. After-the-fact differential survival and reproduction of already-living phenotypic organisms (ordinary natural selection) does not explain polynucleotide prescription and coding. http://www.bioscience.org/2009/v14/af/3426/fulltext.htm but,,, While neo-Darwinian evolution has no evidence that material processes can generate functional prescriptive information, Intelligent Design does have 'proof of principle' that information, via intelligence, can violate the second law and generate 'potential energy': Maxwell's demon demonstration turns information into energy - November 2010 Excerpt: Until now, demonstrating the conversion of information to energy has been elusive, but University of Tokyo physicist Masaki Sano and colleagues have succeeded in demonstrating it in a nano-scale experiment. In a paper published in Nature Physics they describe how they coaxed a Brownian particle to travel upwards on a "spiral-staircase-like" potential energy created by an electric field solely on the basis of information on its location. As the particle traveled up the staircase it gained energy from moving to an area of higher potential, and the team was able to measure precisely how much energy had been converted from information. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-maxwell-demon-energy.htmlbornagain77
January 6, 2013
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If we had something like maxwell's demon we could convert the more probable system to a less probable system. Evolution serves the purpose of the demon. No violation of the second law required. Simple.Mung
January 6, 2013
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A graph featuring 'Kimura's Distribution' of beneficial compared to detrimental mutations is shown in the following video:
Evolution Vs Genetic Entropy - Andy McIntosh - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4028086
Moreover it is now found that the rare 'beneficial' mutations that work in a limited context to increase fitness produce what is termed 'negative epistasis' when the 'beneficial' mutations are combined together:
Mutations : when benefits level off - June 2011 - (Lenski's e-coli after 50,000 generations, which is equivalent to approx. 1 million years of human evolution) Excerpt: After having identified the first five beneficial mutations combined successively and spontaneously in the bacterial population, the scientists generated, from the ancestral bacterial strain, 32 mutant strains exhibiting all of the possible combinations of each of these five mutations. They then noted that the benefit linked to the simultaneous presence of five mutations was less than the sum of the individual benefits conferred by each mutation individually. http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1867.htm?theme1=7 The diminishing returns of beneficial mutations - July 2011 Excerpt: Evolution thus has three strikes against it: most mutations are not beneficial, practically all mutations destroy specified complexity, and, now, even ‘beneficial’ mutations work against each other. While mutations may be of limited benefit to a single organism in a limited context (e.g., sickle cell anemia can protect against malaria even though the sickle cell trait is harmful), mutations seem to be no benefit whatsoever for microbes-to-man evolution, whether individually or together. http://creation.com/antagonistic-epistasis
Thus though the 'bigger picture' may not be all that appealing to Darwinists, personally, I find the bigger picture quite beautiful:
The Artists - The Artists is a short film about two rival painters who fail to see the bigger picture. http://vimeo.com/33670490
Music and verse:
Steven Curtis Chapman - God is God (Original Version) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz94NQ5HRyk Lyric from preceding song: "God is God and I am not I can only see a part of the picture He’s painting God is God and I am man So I’ll never understand it all For only God is God",,, Isaiah 64:8 - But now, O LORD, thou [art] our father; we [are] the clay, and thou our potter; and we all [are] the work of thy hand. 1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
bornagain77
January 6, 2013
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a few notes as to:
“To make the completely definitive argument you have to step back and look at the big picture,”
To me the 'big picture' that makes it clear that entropy relentlessly holds its grip on biology as it does the rest of creation is the fact that entropy is the primary reason physical bodies, which contain life, grow old and die. Dr Sanford notes that detrimental mutation accumulate as we grow older:
*3 new mutations every time a cell divides in your body * Average cell of 15 year old has up to 6000 mutations *Average cell of 60 year old has 40,000 mutations Reproductive cells are 'designed' so that, early on in development, they are 'set aside' and thus they do not accumulate mutations as the rest of the cells of our bodies do. Regardless of this protective barrier against the accumulation of slightly detrimental mutations still we find that,,, *60-175 mutations are passed on to each new generation. Quote taken from this video: Genetic Entropy and The Mystery Of the Genome - Dr. John Sanford - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwCu4rh7kUk
This following video clearly brings the 'big picture' point personally home to us about the effects of genetic entropy on the human body:
Ageing Process - 80 years in 40 seconds - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSdxYmGro_Y
Amazingly, the Shroud of Turin, as out of place as the Shroud of Turin might seem to be in a discussion on entropy, gives us a 'big picture' look that Jesus Christ overcame entropy's relentless 'death grip' on the human body:
THE EVENT HORIZON (Space-Time Singularity) OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN. - Isabel Piczek - Particle Physicist Excerpt: We have stated before that the images on the Shroud firmly indicate the total absence of Gravity. Yet they also firmly indicate the presence of the Event Horizon. These two seemingly contradict each other and they necessitate the past presence of something more powerful than Gravity that had the capacity to solve the above paradox. http://shroud3d.com/findings/isabel-piczek-image-formation A Quantum Hologram of Christ's Resurrection? by Chuck Missler Excerpt: “You can read the science of the Shroud, such as total lack of gravity, lack of entropy (without gravitational collapse), no time, no space—it conforms to no known law of physics.” The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. Dame Piczek created a one-fourth size sculpture of the man in the Shroud. When viewed from the side, it appears as if the man is suspended in mid air (see graphic, below), indicating that the image defies previously accepted science. The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. http://www.khouse.org/articles/2008/847
Some may ask, 'What does gravity have to do with entropy?'. Well it turns out that gravity (space-time), and entropy, are intimately connected:
Evolution is a Fact, Just Like Gravity is a Fact! UhOh! Excerpt: The results of this paper suggest gravity arises as an entropic force, once space and time themselves have emerged. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/evolution-is-a-fact-just-like-gravity-is-a-fact-uhoh/ Shining Light on Dark Energy - October 21, 2012 Excerpt: It (Entropy) explains time; it explains every possible action in the universe;,, Even gravity, Vedral argued, can be expressed as a consequence of the law of entropy.,,, The principles of thermodynamics are at their roots all to do with information theory. Information theory is simply an embodiment of how we interact with the universe —,,, http://crev.info/2012/10/shining-light-on-dark-energy/
as well:
Entropy of the Universe - Hugh Ross - May 2010 Excerpt: Egan and Lineweaver found that supermassive black holes are the largest contributor to the observable universe’s entropy. They showed that these supermassive black holes contribute about 30 times more entropy than what the previous research teams estimated. http://www.reasons.org/entropy-universe
Supplemental notes on the 'big picture' of slightly detrimental mutations:
“The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain - Michael Behe - December 2010 Excerpt: In its most recent issue The Quarterly Review of Biology has published a review by myself of laboratory evolution experiments of microbes going back four decades.,,, The gist of the paper is that so far the overwhelming number of adaptive (that is, helpful) mutations seen in laboratory evolution experiments are either loss or modification of function. Of course we had already known that the great majority of mutations that have a visible effect on an organism are deleterious. Now, surprisingly, it seems that even the great majority of helpful mutations degrade the genome to a greater or lesser extent.,,, I dub it “The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain. http://behe.uncommondescent.com/2010/12/the-first-rule-of-adaptive-evolution/ "I have seen estimates of the incidence of the ratio of deleterious-to-beneficial mutations which range from one in one thousand up to one in one million. The best estimates seem to be one in one million (Gerrish and Lenski, 1998). The actual rate of beneficial mutations is so extremely low as to thwart any actual measurement (Bataillon, 2000, Elena et al, 1998). Therefore, I cannot ...accurately represent how rare such beneficial mutations really are." (J.C. Sanford; Genetic Entropy page 24) - 2005
bornagain77
January 6, 2013
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vjtorley @5: What is there to respond to? Oerter states that "it is physically impossible for evolution to violate the second law of thermodynamics." Of course it is impossible. Everyone knows it is impossible. The 'Earth-is-an-open-system' argument is a complete and utter red herring and shows that the person putting forth the argument has no idea what they are talking about. The discussion is largely a waste of time until we have a clear understanding of what the relevant question even is. Ascertaining what the relevant question is would be a useful avenue of discussion, but we can't respond with detailed entropy calculations and the like until we first have some agreement on what we are talking about.Eric Anderson
January 6, 2013
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Hi Professor Sewell, Great post. I found the video very clear, and the argument straightforward. To those who say the sun could have done the trick, I say: sunbeams aren't that smart. However, I have a great fondness for numbers, hence my next question: has anyone in the ID community posted a refutation of Robert N. Oerter's online paper, Does Life On Earth Violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics? using detailed numerical calculations? I'm just curious. Thanks.vjtorley
January 6, 2013
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It is something wrong with the Second Low. I felt it already for years and wrote about it some articles but last week there was a new information about the machines with negative entropy here: http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/colder-than-absolute-zero/3684063Levan
January 6, 2013
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Game, set and match. Deism, theism and, now, Christianity, BA. Yet not a scintilla of concurrence from them. They have breasted the mountain top, thanks to better scientists (open to non-partisan knowledge than themselves), and view the churchmen and theologians who've been sitting there for centuries, as mirages.Axel
January 6, 2013
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Semi OT: as to, "To make the completely definitive argument you have to step back and look at the big picture," Sort of reminds me of another piece of evidence that one has to step back away from in order to get the big picture 'To make the completely definitive argument': "Q: Why can't the Shroud just be be a medieval painting? A: The image is also extremely faint, fading away completely if you get closer than about six feet, so it would have like trying to paint an enormous canvas in invisible ink."bornagain77
January 6, 2013
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This illustrates how the human heart can absolutely annihilate the reasoning of people of quite egregious worldly intelligence, and routinely does so, simply because of the individual's wishful thinking - his preference for a world-view with which it would be inconsistent. Wishful thinking, however, as the ambience and ultimate rationale of our premises is not, ipso facto, seminally false. Indeed, when we choose the premises of our world-view, we all have to fall back on wishful thinking. It just happens that, it is perfectly consistent with Christian belief that we are prompted, inspired precisely in this manner by the Holy Spirit. Where this propensity, nay, resolute determination, of the partisans of scientism for totally ga-ga reasoning, lies, however, is in their claim that truth can only be accessed under laboratory conditions, and will always be cold and hard, and accessible only to the mind of the cynical reductionist (moron). Whereas the reality is that truth is anything but void of beauty, life and 'charisma': truth and the understanding it requires are both, in fact, live, vibrant and dynamic, and are not constrained by any demand to be cold, ugly, cruel, undesirable and proof against any hope that is not wholly psychopathic. On the contrary, Einstein identified the criterion he resorted to in selecting his hypotheses as aesthetic. Of course, later, he had to point out to the myrmidons of scientism for whom he had such withering contempt, that 'elegance' was not, in itself, sufficient. They had to 'do the math'. Not that the loopy Darwinists heeded his words either then - to the incredulous dismay of Wolfgang Pauli - or now.Axel
January 6, 2013
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Got it in one, Granville.... appropriately enough.Axel
January 6, 2013
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