Kurt Vonnegut on ID & scientists’ “tribal behavior”

DaveScot, I was in Chengdu in central China and am now off to South Korea. Back in a week... Dougdougmoran

January 26, 2006

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ooops, I actually meant to say secular humanist. Secularist? Now that's a good one. :)saxe17

January 25, 2006

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Amazing. To hear a declared "human secularist" admit that natural selection could never produce a machine as complex as the human body is well...truly amazing. Saxesaxe17

January 25, 2006

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It's amusing to hear Vonnegut praising the miracle of the human body when he apparently has such a low opinion of the human brain, as revealed in his novel "Galapagos". The recurring message of that book is that humans' "big brains" are actually maladaptive, leading to all sorts of trouble (including war). He envisions humans' descendants a million years hence as having shed arms, legs, and excess intelligence and returned to a peaceful existence in the water. Incidentally, Stephen Jay Gould recommended "Galapagos" to his students as an entertaining introduction to the idea of contingency in evolution.watchmaker

January 25, 2006

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Mr. Davison Is it fair then to assume that you view the progress of life on Earth as having an undeniable path with the inevitable culmination of humanity?ftrp11

January 25, 2006

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Well thank you. I would prefer "snarls like a tiger" myself.John Davison

January 25, 2006

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I like you John, you're fiesty. *growls like a cat :)Bombadill

January 25, 2006

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Oh but evolution CAN explain it. It is called "The Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis." Everything we are now learning points to a planned, predetermined universe the realization of which involved no role whatsoever for chance. That includes both ontogeny and phylogeny. Only the former is still in operation. Just as ontogeny auto-terminates with the adult state so phylogeny has terminated with the formation of the ultimate product, Homo sapiens, the last mammalian species to be produced. Prove me wrong. That is what science is all about. As for Darwinism, based as it is on blind chance: "It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for believing it to be true." Bertrand RussellJohn Davison

January 25, 2006

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Doug You're cleared for takeoff. Just enter through "meta: site admin" right above the hit counter on the lower right of this page. There you'll find all you need to write and publish articles. Where in China? I stayed at the Grand Hyatt in Taiwan for weeks on end back in the day on business. I really hadn't kept up much on Vonnegut's life in the last 30 years. I read a few of his science fiction novels (excellent) circa 1970 and then nothing until I saw him on Bill Maher trashing President Bush, praising socialism, and being a general nattaring nabob of negativity about the human race. Not my cup of tea to say the least. It wasn't the Vonnegut I remembered from his novels. Then Bill links this audio of him saying (more or less) "Well duh, of course design is true". Kind of shocking given the portrait of him I had from the Maher interview.DaveScot

January 25, 2006

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Being Vonnegut has certain advantages. A deep thinker. An objective observer of our dilemma. One who has no shadow to cast in any direction. I love hearing from people like him - they can just tell it the way it really is without fear - just throw it out there for all to ponder. Paraphrasing, "...our bodies are miracles, how on earth did this happen? Clearly, evolution can't explain it." Thank you, Kurt, for elucidating that fundamental truth in a language all can relate to - that of objectivity and reason (and that MS in anthropology). So the tribes of Darwin beat their drums, stomp there feet, and launch spears into the dark - hoping to strike the enemy before it emerges into the light of reason. But alas, dawn will come. Truth is inevitable. But I have to admit it is surprising, considering the source. By the way, DaveScot, I haven't forgotten the invitation. I've had to run off to China and elsewhere on important (to my employer) business. I'll be trying to free up time to participate as intended over the next few weeks and can hopefully be a more worthy participant.dougmoran

January 24, 2006

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Surprise is an understatement.DaveScot

January 24, 2006

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The last time I saw Vonnegut was a few months ago on Bill Maher. I wanted to throw something at him. When he said he was going to do his part by not reproducing I thought there's finally a good idea. I'm going to listen but I'm going to put any loose objects out of reach first...DaveScot

January 24, 2006

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