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Materialist OOA Research is Obviously Silly. What Does That Say About Materialist OOL Research?

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Recently one of our materialist friends made a comment along the lines of “we’ve known life can come from non-life since the concept of ‘vitalism’ was debunked by the synthesis of urea from inorganic elements.”  Our friend is wrong.  Let me explain why. 

It is true that prior to the nineteenth century many chemists believed organic compounds were too complex to be synthesized and organic matter was somehow endowed with a mysterious “vital force.”  This is the essence of vitalism.   

It is also true that vitalism was largely debunked in 1828 when Friedrich Wohler produced urea, an organic constituent of urine, from inorganic ammonium cyanate.   

Moreover, it is true that since the famous Miller-Urey experiments in the 1950s, scientists have known that simple building blocks of living things such as amino acids can be synthesized from inorganic precursors under certain carefully controlled conditions.   

If all these things are true, why is our friend wrong?  The answer lies in the fact that “organic compound” is far from a synonym for “living thing.”  Don’t believe me?  Go to the nearest funeral home and examine a corpse.  That corpse is a bag of extremely complex organic compounds that are perfect building blocks for a living thing, but it is not a living thing.   

Simple amino acids and other organic compounds are a long way from living things.  The more we learn about life the more the materialist case slides into implausibility, because organic chemical compounds are not the essence of life.  Too be sure, the presence of organic compounds is a necessary condition of life, but it is far from a sufficient condition as materialist OOL (origin of life) researchers thought in the salad days of OOL studies in 50s and 60s.  No, the essence of life is the precise arrangement of matter into maddeningly complex systems working together toward a specific overall purpose (i.e., living) according to a digitally encoded DNA blueprint (i.e., information).   

The problem for OOL researchers is analogous to building an airplane from scratch using nothing but the forces of nature and sheer random chance (call it OOA “origin of airplane” research).  Say lightning struck a patch of beach sand and produced glass.  Materialists got excited when Wohler demonstrated that one constituent of urine could be produced from simpler inorganic compounds.  Our OOA researchers might get excited that an element of the airplane (the glass for the windshield) was produced by the combination of sheer random chance and the forces of nature. 

Now suppose a researcher performs an experiment in which he mixes anhydrous aluminium chloride with potassium (which Wohler actually did in 1827) and out pops aluminum.  Our OOA researchers should be beside themselves with joy.  The basic building block of almost all airframes can be created by just mixing a few chemicals together under the right conditions, surely a process well within the reach of blind chance and physical law.   

By now you are rolling your eyes.  Only an idiot would believe that the essence of an airplane can be reduced to glass for the windshield and metal for the airframe.  The essence of an airplane is the precise arrangement of parts into extremely complex systems working toward a specific purpose (i.e., flying) according to a plan (i.e., information).   

You might say that the analogy between OOL research and OOA research fails because “living” and “flying” are two different things.  I would grant you that the analogy fails, but not in the way you think.  The analogy fails because living things are actually far more complex than airplanes, and it follows that building a living thing through the combination of sheer blind chance and mechanical law is much less likely than building an airplane through the same process. 

Even a child can see the futility of trying to build an airplane using only natural forces.  Why is it then that many very highly educated people can’t see the futility of building something far more complex than an airplane using the same process?  Good question.  Let me suggest that someone who cannot see the obvious must be wearing blinders of some sort, in this case the blinders of materialist metaphysics.   

I will leave you with a quote from Paul Davies that the UD News Desk brought to my attention:

Most research into life’s murky origin has been carried out by chemists. They’ve tried a variety of approaches in their attempts to recreate the first steps on the road to life, but little progress has been made. Perhaps that is no surprise, given life’s stupendous complexity. Even the simplest bacterium is incomparably more complicated than any chemical brew ever studied.

 

But a more fundamental obstacle stands in the way of attempts to cook up life in the chemistry lab. The language of chemistry simply does not mesh with that of biology. Chemistry is about substances and how they react, whereas biology appeals to concepts such as information and organisation. Informational narratives permeate biology. DNA is described as a genetic “database”, containing “instructions” on how to build an organism. The genetic “code” has to be “transcribed” and “translated” before it can act. And so on. If we cast the problem of life’s origin in computer jargon, attempts at chemical synthesis focus exclusively on the hardware – the chemical substrate of life – but ignore the software – the informational aspect. To explain how life began we need to understand how its unique management of information came about.

Comments
Kairosfocus: “Box: Actually, the design inference makes no such assumption or assertion.”
Well B. Arrington, for one, does make the assumption (see post 4). And so did Behe and many others. The main point is that I do not believe that life is a complex airplane. Life isn’t machine-like. Bornagain77 mentions my hero S. Talbott. The next quote is about ID:
S.Talbott: ”Dawkins and Dennett sometimes seem fixated upon design, presumably as a result of their severely constraining preoccupation with religion and with the “creationism” or “intelligent design” promulgated by some religious folks. Although the word has its legitimate uses, you will not find me speaking of design, simply because — as I’ve made abundantly clear in previous articles — organisms cannot be understood as having been designed, machine-like, whether by an engineer-God or a Blind Watchmaker elevated to god-like status. If organisms participate in a higher life, it is a participation that works from within — at a deep level the ancients recognized as that of the logos informing all things. It is a sharing of the springs of life and being, not a mere receptivity to some sort of external mechanical tinkering modeled anthropocentrically on human engineering.”
By the way, I’m aware of the fact that you (KF) have a deep understanding of agency. In the thread ‘Is Atheism Rationally Justifiable?‘, post 340, you wrote:
Kairosfocus: “(..)the whole point of personhood (..), persons are first causes, self-moved actuators of chains of consequences. Persons act by their power of choice as the start point for action.”
Box
January 18, 2013
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Here is an interesting article that's makes a very persuasive case that 'vitalism', long thought dead in biology, is reemerging with a vengence: What Do Organisms Mean? - Steven Talbot Excerpt:,,, We discussed in previous articles how, whatever their belief in these matters, biologists today — and molecular biologists in particular — routinely and unavoidably describe the organism in terms that go far beyond the language of physics and chemistry. Words like “stimulus,” “response,” “signal,” “adapt,” “inherit,” and “communicate,” in their biological sense, would never be applied to the strictly physical and chemical processes in a corpse or other inanimate object. But they are always employed in attempts to understand the living organism. The prevalent descriptions portray the whole organism as an active unity, with powers of regulation and coordination intelligently directed toward the achievement of the organism’s own ends. Further, we noted that such descriptions, rooted as they are in the observable character of the organism, show no sign of being reducible to less living terms or to the language of mechanism. But this immediately raises a suspicion of vitalism in the minds of many scientists. Who, after all, is this organism? And by what special powers does it “regulate,” “integrate,” “respond,” and “communicate”? Bear in mind, however, that these questions press just as urgently upon the conventional molecular biologist as on the suspected vitalist. After all, the loaded terminology comes straight from the laboratory, where researchers are trying to make sense of what they see.,,, http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/what-do-organisms-mean -------------- Personally, I think finding 'non-local' quantum entanglement in molecular biology has returned 'vitalism' full force right into the center of biology Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA – Elisabeth Rieper – short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/ Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties?-A Galaxy Insight – 2009 Excerpt: DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn’t be able to.,,, The recognition of similar sequences in DNA’s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible. http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/04/does-dna-have-t.html further notes: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/g-k-chesterton-on-why-materialists-not-theists-are-the-dogmatists/#comment-442447 PS, it was Alan Fox who was the materialist who made the comment concerning urea overturning vitalism music: Mandisa: Good Morning - Official Lyric Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnmWwudeqfMbornagain77
January 18, 2013
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Once 2 + 2 don't make 4, it's very difficult for atheists ever to 'do the math', metaphorically speaking; impossible when approaching the deepest questions and truths. How they have the effrontery to take quantum physics in their stride, while continuing with their knuckle-dragging, materialist polemics, beggars belief. Almost...Axel
January 18, 2013
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'And of course, if the universe is big enough to produce houses spontaneously by spontaneously baking clay into regular bricks and then assembling them with the appearance of design, then the absence of ratchet screwdriver trees in my garden is an unfathomable mystery.' A very striking, imaginative, as well as hilarious evocation, Jon.Axel
January 18, 2013
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Box: Actually, the design inference makes no such assumption or assertion. Instead, it is looking at features of the natural world, whether the cosmos itself or cell based life and asking, are there empirically reliable signs of cause in this, and in particular does complex, functionally specific information that leads to configuration- specific function, a sign of design? That makes no metaphysical assumptions, it is a simple question of inductive warrant. The conclusions may then feed into arguments on what best explains evidently designed life forms in a world that also shows design signs, that seems set up to host such life, but that is a different order of question that builds on the prior empirical issue. What is happening, is that some of those who are violently hostile to the possibility that there may be a designed cosmos and designed life in it, project a metaphysics unto the inductive question that is not there. All that is actually required for the design inference to work is that we do not rule out the POSSIBILITY of design ahead of time. Which is exactly what the sort of tactics we so commonly see (redefining science as applied materialism etc), do. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2013
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EII: Try here on (in the context of the wider draft course), for an overview. If that does not hit the spot, you may want to try the always linked through my handle. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2013
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Of course I like ID much better than Darwinism, but both make the same mistake. Both hold that life is mere matter. ID states that this matter is designed, rich with information and extremely complex, but this does not change the fact that matter is mere matter. An interesting article which illustrates my point is: It's Not the "Complexity". Excerpts:
“In all physical systems there is a flow of information from the bottom upwards, in the sense that the components of a system serve to determine how the system as a whole behaves.”
Notice that there actually is no ‘system as a whole’. There is just a heap of matter.
“In living organisms, this pattern of bottom-up information flow mingles with the inverse -- top-down information flow -- so that what happens at the local level can depend on the global environment, as well as vice versa.”
‘Top-down information flow’ presupposes agency; an actual whole with causal power. This is the difference between airplanes and life.Box
January 18, 2013
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KF: That is a subject I would like to know more about. I'm not sure it fits what I'm looking for, but I'd appreciate a few links, if you have them ready to hand.englishmaninistanbul
January 18, 2013
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EII: Do you notice the complex, information controlled, energetically uphill step by step assembly process used in the cell to make proteins [including the significance of handedness, which is decidedly not what simple energy considerations would give you . . . mirror image molecules have the same energy levels], and how they are folder in ways that work key-lock style? KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2013
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The whole “building-block of life” idea is an odd one, really.
Hm.
"Of the 92 natural elements, 25 are essential for life. Of these, there are six main elements that are the fundamental building blocks of life. They are, in order of least to most common: sulfur, phosphorous, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, and hydrogen. An easy way to remember this is SPONCH - a nice mnemonic. The remaining 19 elements are defined as trace elements, which are important, but required only in very small quantities. The basis of life is carbon. Carbon's importance comes mainly from the enormous variety of structures that it can form due to its unusual four valence electrons. Most important of these structures is the carbon chain, which forms the "backbone" of fatty acids and carbohydrates, among other organic molecules."-AP Biology/The Chemical Building Blocks of Life
Turns out you can't just sling life together out of anything. Moving on... Thanks, actually, for another nice analogy. If I see a house built out of bricks, I know for certain somebody made it, even if it's in the middle of a clay pit. But if I see a bunch of sticks arranged to form a shelter, I would most likely conclude that somebody made it, but then again I may not if it's a very rudimentary shelter in a forest. It's possible the sticks found their way there and it just looks like a shelter. The difference is that the stick shelter is simply a combination of smaller, naturally occurring units. A brick house, on the other hand, is a combination of units that must first be artificially fashioned. Life is made of proteins, which are combinations of amino acids, which are combinations of molecules, which are combinations of atoms. An atom is still the same atom when it joins others to form a molecule, a molecule is still the same molecule when it joins others to form a compound, and so on. They're still the same "shape", as it were. So far, more like a stick shelter than a brick house. What I'm asking is, are there any building blocks, essential components, whatever, of life that would make them more like the brick house? Units that must be "shaped" or rendered "artificial" or "unnatural" before they can form part of the whole, as opposed to units that are fine as they are?englishmaninistanbul
January 18, 2013
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The whole "building-block of life" idea is an odd one, really. If you have a plan to build a house, then building blocks of some sort will be available. If there are no bricks you'll use sticks, and if no sticks you'll use straw and watch out for wolves. But until there's someone intending to build a house, there are no building blocks - just a universe full of stuff. And of course, if the universe is big enough to produce houses spontaneously by spontaneously baking clay into regular bricks and then assembling them with the appearance of design, then the absence of ratchet screwdriver trees in my garden is an unfathomable mystery.Jon Garvey
January 18, 2013
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As a layman trying to visualise everything, one possible objection I anticipate could be that bits of aircraft are in themselves obviously things that could not occur naturally. Such as, for example, a flat, smooth panel with regularly spaced holes for rivets. However, in my mind's eye I see atoms as being like little balls or beads, and molecules as combinations of those beads just sticking together by virtue of their own nature, like magnets. Ditto for amino acids--so long as you line them all up in the right order they just click together and start folding and there you have your protein. It makes the whole "organic soup" idea tentatively plausible, because it sounds like you're just shaking up a box of magnetised beads of the kind I just described. Don't get me wrong, the probabilistic argument against the organic soup is quite good in and of itself, but it does seem to imply that if the universe were big enough and old enough (or in other words, if we had a big enough box of magnetised beads and shook them around for long enough) then actually you would get the building blocks of life. Whereas I think an even stronger point could be made that the idea life can self-assemble if you wait long enough is about as plausible as suggesting that a sheet of aluminium with regularly spaced rivet-shaped holes could turn up through natural forces given enough time (à la Douglas Adam's ratchet screwdriver trees). So, are any of the building blocks of the most basic life forms, or at least essential components thereof, analogous to my panel?englishmaninistanbul
January 18, 2013
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Evidently, a secular faith-knowledge, applicable to the physical light-spiritual light continuum and the space-time continuum, correspond to the mechanistic level*; while a Christian faith-knowledge continuum, which, in turn, forms a continuum with its secular counter-part addresses the quantum level. 'Our friends' are still trapped in the former, wishing to continue to apply the canons of mechanistic physics to the extremes. To do otherwise might let the foot of religion in the door... And that would be unconscionable. *Unsurprisingly, Newton was too wise to discount the existence of other dimensions than the three he was famliar with.Axel
January 17, 2013
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Since, then, biology seems to indicate information to be the key to the creation and sustenance of all living creatures, would it not tie in with my postulation that spiritual light(enlightenment) and physical light form a continuum? Such spiritual light-physical light continuum, the primary reality of our world, both externally and internally, seemingly constitutes the key to our prosecuting empirical research into the nature of said world of the time-space continuum, and our understanding of it. Bearing in mind the confirmation of theism via the pesonalization of the speed of light, and the effective confirmation of the Resurrection and ergo Christianity via the latest findings concerning the Shroud of Turin and its perfect match with the Sudarium of Oviedo, is it any wonder that virtually all the most innovative pioneers of empirical science have been Judaeo-Christians; with the exception, that is, of Einstein, who was not a pantheist, but a panentheist, believing in a 'spirit manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.' Elsewhere, he states: 'The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.' ... and: 'Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.' ... and: 'There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.' (Why, indeed, would random chance draw from chaos, what, to our eyes, seems a vast and unimaginably intricate filigree of order of all but infinite magnitude?') ... and 'The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.' It is as if Einstein, an anything but apologetic poster-boy for Intelligent Design, was suffering from a kind of intellectual blood-lust for the partisans of scientism, putting the knife in again and again, laying it all out in a beautiful yet pellucid metaphor in that last paragraph. He must have loved that satirical metaphor, the Promissory Note.Axel
January 17, 2013
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Barry: Your OOA analogy is rather spot on and quite instructive. I will shamelessly borrow it in the future. I do have a minor quibble with Paul Davies' quote, however. Those of us who deal with hardware will recognize that Davies' analogy of chemical constituents to "hardware" is too generous. Namely, hardware itself is a highly specific arrangement that not only requires information to properly construct, but which itself often contains complex specified information. Indeed, the line between hardware and software gets blurred at some level (for example, when we start delving into the details of SoC's, embedded systems, etc., and I suspect over time we will find the same thing in living systems). Thus, Davies is being too generous to say that attempts at chemical synthesis focus just on the hardware. In reality they don't even take into account meaningful hardware requirements. Instead, they are just focused on a very vague and abstract (and thus in most cases, singularly unhelpful) notion of matter somehow giving rise to function. It would be more accurate to say such attempts are just focusing on the underlying physical building blocks of the hardware.Eric Anderson
January 17, 2013
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If mother nature constructs an airplane, but there isn't anyone around to see it, does Alan Fox still watch caravans?Joe
January 17, 2013
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Barry Arrington:”No, the essence of life is the precise arrangement of matter into maddeningly complex systems working together toward a specific overall purpose (i.e., living) according to a digitally encoded DNA blueprint (i.e., information)”.
For me, the question is if life can be reduced to mere (precisely arranged) matter … Complex or not, in this view on life there seems to be ‘nobody home’. There is just matter. How about the mind, mr. Arrington? And how would you call a mind without a body if not 'life'?
Barry Arrington:”You might say that the analogy between OOL research and OOA research fails because “living” and “flying” are two different things. I would grant you that the analogy fails, but not in the way you think. The analogy fails because living things are actually far more complex than airplanes, (…)”
For me, matter doesn’t explain agency, but neither does complexity. Complexity is not the difference between airplanes and life. Agency is. Complexity does not explain consciousness, because parts (designed or not) are not the whole; which is consciousness.Box
January 17, 2013
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Plus, we have all sorts of intermediate flying things. Like leaves. And pollen. And paper. And entire planets fly through space. There's a clear evolutionary sequence to airplanes.Mung
January 17, 2013
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But there are many different kinds of airplanes. You have to factor that in to whether or not one could assemble by chance.Mung
January 17, 2013
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And by Alan Fox's logic Mother Nature can produce stones, stones are the building blocks of Stonehenge, therefor Mother Nature can produce Stonehenge-like formations (meaning Stonehenge wasn't designed- designers were not vital to its existence.)Joe
January 17, 2013
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