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Methodological naturalism: If that’s the way forward, … let’s go sideways

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Having connected the dots of the vast conspiracy run by the Discovery Institute so as to include non-materialist neuroscience, Steven Novella goes on to cheerlead, for methodological naturalism – about which I will say only this:

Methodological naturalism is usually described as meaning that science can consider only natural causes. But by itself that doesn’t mean anything because we don’t know everything that is in nature. For example, if – as Rupert Sheldrake thinks – some animals can demonstrate telepathy, then telepathy is a natural cause. And so?

And so Richard Dawkins goes to a great deal of trouble to attempt to discredit Sheldrake because the hidden assumption is that nature mustn’t include telepathy.

In practice, methodological naturalism frequently becomes a method of defending bad – and often ridiculously bad.- ideas in order to save naturalism. Think of the persistent efforts to “prove” that humans don’t “really” behave altruistically. In fact, we sometimes do. Here’s a recent story, for example, about a Texas woman named Marilyn Mock who went to an auction of foreclosed homes, ran into Tracey Orr – an unemployed woman she had never met – who had come to endure the sale of her home, and …

Orr couldn’t hold it in. The tears flowed. She pointed to the auction brochure at a home that didn’t have a picture. “That’s my house,” she said.

Within moments, the four-bedroom, two-bath home in Pottsboro, Texas, went up for sale. People up front began casting their bids. The home that Orr purchased in September 2004 was slipping away.

She stood and moved toward the crowd. Behind her, Mock got into the action.

“She didn’t know I was doing it,” Mock says. “I just kept asking her if [her home] was worth it, and she just kept crying. She probably thought I was crazy, ‘Why does this woman keep asking me that?’ “

Mock says she bought the home for about $30,000. That’s when Mock did what most bidders at a foreclosure auction never do.

“She said, ‘I did this for you. I’m doing this for you,’ ” Orr says. “When it was all done, I was just in shock.”

But it was true. Mock bought the house for her and said she would accept as repayment only what Orr can afford. Why?

“If it was you, you’d want somebody to stop and help you.”

Now, a “methodological naturalist” would

(1) try to find a chimpanzee who does something similar and make up a story that explains how that behaviour was naturally selected for in primates

or (since that might take a while)

(2) assign a selfish motive for Mock that is consistent with survival of the fittest.

One might at first be tempted to conclude that methodological naturalism is methodological idiocy. But no, let’s look a bit more carefully. Notice what is not a permitted assumption: We can’t assume that some people just think they should help others – even at considerable cost. In other words, the plain evidence of human behavior cannot be accepted at face value.

Now, there is nothing especially scientific about that belief. “Scientific” means “dealing with the evidence from nature,” which includes a fair sprinkling of unselfish or not-very-selfish humans (as well as of the other type). Indeed, superior human intelligence probably explains the tendency to imagine another’s feelings (= “If it was you, you’d want somebody to stop and help you”). So we can account scientifically for why humans can behave as Mock did.

The problem is that such an account, while useful, fails to support a key false belief underlying methodological naturalism: That humans are really the 98% chimpanzee and cannot in principle have motives absent in chimpanzees. Apart from that false belief, no one would bother trying to find an exotic explanation for Mock’s behaviour.

The principle role that methodological naturalism plays right now is to enable false beliefs to pose as science and to prevent them being discredited by evidence.

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Comments
Well that's the problem however, not all signs of intelligence are supernatural. So we can apply our knowledge of existing intelligences to detecting a greater intelligence, to say that this is outside the bounds of naturalism would be correct. To say that this would be outside the bounds of science would be incorrect. The problem is that it's presumed by most scientists today that naturalism is science and science is naturalism. The main issue is that science today is predefined by naturalism. So when Tom Clark says that "supernatural" isn't detectable, that statement I'm sure actually includes detectable things such as intelligence.PaulN
November 21, 2008
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I hope that you guys understand that Tom Clark of Naturalism.org is, I think, agreeing with you that declaring that science can only deal with what is natural, not with what is supernatural, is a misleading distinction. Science deals with what is empirically testable - that's the crucial distinction. Do I understand you correctly, Tom?hazel
November 21, 2008
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I think the fatal assumption that materialist mentalities endorse is that there is nothing at all testable within the realm of the "supernatural." This is a common mindset held by atheists and those who share the same worldview. If you are going to confine science to natural methodology, then you're never going to perceive evidence for a supernatural intelligence because the very foundation of natural methodology presumes there is none before evidence is even weighed. So given this, if there is in fact a super intelligent creator who designed the universe and everything within it, then this type of "science" would never be capable of finding the truth. The example is as follows: Imagine the entire global population of organic life on earth was completely wiped out without leaving any trace of biological signatures, yet all of the machinery and inorganic mechanisms survived this event. Later down the road an outside intelligence stumbles upon this barren planet and sees nothing but the remnants of what used be populated cities in many locations around the world. If this being were to solely use natural methodology to find out the history of this planet, the efforts would be absolutely fruitless in detecting the intelligence that was responsible for creating all of the complex machinery that's left after this apocolyptic event. Instead the being would opt to try and understand how cars, planes, factories, power plants etc... came about from natural causes. Obviously constricting his methods to naturalism would never provide any accurate history of how these machines and complex assemblies came to be. But I bet he'd be able to use his imagination and come up some very very complex theories to explain how everything left on this planet did arise from naturalistic processes. These theories would seem sound at face value, but would completely fail when the details are put into the spotlight. So ultimately this methodology could come up with flimsy theories at best. Of course this is a theoretical scenario and I realize this, but if science truly is the pursuit of knowledge and truth, then how can we ever know the truth if we've already ruled it out? The point I'm trying to make is that if intelligence is indeed a significant source of our origin, then we'd be completely incapable of coming to that conclusion given the current constraints of "science." Maybe the scope of science is what needs to be broadened.PaulN
November 21, 2008
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It indicates, if anything, that either the YEC’s God did not do what they claim He did, or He removed (or allowed the removal of) all scientific evidence pointing at as much. Or we haven't found it yet. If radioactive decay should be found not to be a constant so much for the main pillar of evidence of an old Earth.tribune7
November 21, 2008
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Tragic Mishap, you may have misunderstood my point. Altruism, like any other human quality, can be studied, and yes, it has complex roots, as we might expect. However, a false paradigm in science requires us to study it as if it were a quality demonstrated by, say, chimpanzees. That necessitates finding explanations that do not include the factor of high intelligence. Invariably, the people who do this stuff start spouting about "methodological naturalism" (= "What we are doing doesn't make any sense but we want to do it this way anyway to protect our elaborate system from collapsing in ruins.")O'Leary
November 21, 2008
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I confess I have some sympathy with skeptics of altruism. Quite often people do "nice" things simply because it makes them feel good. I think God made us to feel good when we do something nice. Like everything else God has done, this can be perverted by perverting what people believe to be "good" or "bad". People are sometimes altruistic. This does not mean however that every altruistic act is always the right one. Just my two cents.tragicmishap
November 21, 2008
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ribczynski, He's misrepresenting the debate, whether purposefully or not. First, YEC != ID. No matter how many times people repeat that, they are not the same thing. Further, the legal opposition to ID - an idea which is extremely broad, a collection of viewpoints and perspective rather than a narrow and single scientific claim - had next to nothing to do with scientific falsification. The issue came down to whether ID's claims are legitimately 'science' at all, or a concealed religious / philosophical argument. So Tom is flatly wrong on this. Second, insofar as Tom claims that a supernatural hypothesis can be ruled on by science, he's either being tremendously sloppy or he's equivocating immensely. YEC's claims are capable of being explored by methodological naturalism only to the extent that a particular YEC argument makes naturalistic claims. If a YEC argues that the scientific evidence is invalid and the product of deception by a powerful malevolent force, science is incapable of ruling on this claim. If a YEC makes a specific naturalistic claim that is shown to be false, it does not become the case that science 'has shown that the YEC God does not exist', any more than the OJ Simpson trial was an attempt to discover if the OJ Simpson who killed Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman existed. It indicates, if anything, that either the YEC's God did not do what they claim He did, or He removed (or allowed the removal of) all scientific evidence pointing at as much. On the flipside, if by some twist new scientific evidence were discovered that strongly indicated a several thousand year old earth... science would not have verified a supernatural hypothesis either. Such evidence (no, I'm not a YEC, nor have I ever been) would turn our world upside down. Such evidence could lend support to a (non-scientific) YEC claim about God. But science's role in such an investigation would abruptly stop at the naturalistic aspects. No supernatural claim is testable, such that any 'supernatural' part of a hypothesis would be effectively be either removed by, or invisible to, the scientific investigation. The first step of respecting science is realizing just how limited it is.nullasalus
November 21, 2008
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nullasalus, You seem to have misunderstood Tom Clark's comment. He is arguing (and I would agree) that what determines whether a hypothesis is scientific is not whether it refers to the natural or to the supernatural, but rather whether it is testable. Young earth creationism posits a God who created the universe several thousand years ago. Most of us would consider the YEC God to be a supernatural entity, but Tom's point is that the natural/supernatural distinction is irrelevant to the question of YEC's scientific status. What matters is that young earth creationism makes testable predictions, and that these predictions are not congruent with the observational evidence. In other words, science shows us that the YEC God does not exist, regardless of whether you label him 'natural' or 'supernatural'. There are claims within ID that are testable, and others that are not. The former can be investigated scientifically; the latter cannot.ribczynski
November 21, 2008
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twclark, "Science can evaluate any hypothesis, natural or supernatural, monistic or dualistic, so long as it has some testable content. For instance, scientists have evaluated young earth creationism and found the evidence for it lacking, same for ID. This is why neither have thus far found a place in public school science classrooms." I'm sorry, but this rundown is entirely wrong in just about every direction. The overwhelming argument against ID has been that legitimate science is literally incapable of investigating claims of design, certainly on the level that ID necessitates. The evidence has not 'been lacking' - what ID proponents cite as evidence and implied conclusion has been argued to be outside the bounds of science altogether. It's precisely because of the perceived religious commitment that ID has been barred from mention in public schools - if it were purely a question of science, there would be zero legal justification for excluding it if some school board chose to allow it. Further, the only way that scientists are capable of 'investigating the supernatural' is if the supernatural has discernible natural effects. But in such a case it is the natural effects that would be investigated - they wouldn't be able to scientifically classify anything as 'supernatural' because the natural is the sole domain OF science in mainstream consideration. This sort of intentional confusion is part of the problem in this debate. Science starts off philosophically bounded in such a way that it's only capable of investigating the natural. Then the explanation comes that all science has discovered is what we would call 'natural', therefore only the natural exists. Which is like arguing that only visual data is scientific data, and then it being announced that science has proven that only the visual exists.nullasalus
November 20, 2008
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I like what Tom said. The natural/supernatural distinction is not very useful because if we can study something in the sense of experience it in an objectively testable manner, then it is natural.hazel
November 20, 2008
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I agree that science shouldn't be identified with methodological naturalism. Science can evaluate any hypothesis, natural or supernatural, monistic or dualistic, so long as it has some testable content. For instance, scientists have evaluated young earth creationism and found the evidence for it lacking, same for ID. This is why neither have thus far found a place in public school science classrooms. Science should also not be identified with materialism, since there might turn out to be categorically mental entities according to some empirically testable specification. For instance philosopher of mind David Chalmers thinks the best explanation for consciousness might be that there are categorically mental phenomena related to physical phenomena by psycho-physical laws. I happen to think he's wrong, but it can't be ruled out. If he's right, and materialism is proven false, that doesn't get us to supernaturalism, since it's still a theory about the natural world and what it contains. To get supernaturalism into the picture, you'd have to use something other than science to establish truth claims about the world, since what science confirms to exist is what we call nature. Thus far, it doesn't seem science has much competition when it comes to mapping reality reliably. More about this in Appropriating science. best, Tom Clark Naturalism.Orgtwclark
November 20, 2008
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For what its worth , here is my two cents on this whole methodological naturalism controversy: The Quantum Teleportation experiment is truly a wondrous experiment. The experiment goes to the very foundation of what is currently known, scientifically, about reality and dramatically restructures our understanding. In the experiment, through some very clever manipulation, scientists have the entire information content (properties) of one photon of energy being teleported, instantaneously, onto another photon of energy. The second photon of energy assumes the complete identity of the first photon, while the first photon loses its complete identity. Yet, the shocking thing is, scientifically, energy is currently understood to be the ultimate foundation of all matter in this universe. From Einstein's equation of E=mc^2, we know that all matter was ultimately created out of energy, and is theoretically reducible to energy. From Einstein's equation we can also gather that time, as we understand it, comes to complete stop at the speed of light (Light is understood to be eternal). And From James Joule, the author of the First Law Of thermodynamics, "Conservation of Energy", we understand that energy can not be created nor destroyed by any known material means. These facts give some impressive weight to energy as the ultimate and irreducible basis of reality, yet here we have information, which is completely transcendent of any energy/material basis, telling energy exactly what to be/do in these teleportation experiments. Anton Zeilinger, a top notch scientist in quantum research, went so far as to, very unscientifically, quote Bible scripture in trying to get a handle on this revelation from quantum teleportation. Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe? By A. Zeilinger, Paul Davies http://www.metanexus.net/magazin e/ArticleDetail/tabid/68/id/5896/Default .aspx excerpt from article: "In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: "In the beginning was the Word (Logos)." Needless to say, when I read Dr. Anton Zeilinger quote John 1:1 from the Bible, my ears perked up immediately. And as I have mulled this experiment over during the past few months, I've realized that there is a overwhelming line of logic that solidifies this inference of Dr. Zeilinger's to the Word (Logos) of John 1:1-3. It may be stated that since energy cannot be created or destroyed, anything displaying control over energy cannot be created of destroyed also. (this experiment is actually the establishment of the law of Conservation of Information in science since the information is shown, unlike simple quantum entanglement experiments, to be completely independent of any possible energy basis) That is to say; All logically true information that can possibly exist, which would most likely be infinite information, can and already does exist completely free of any known energy/material basis and as far as the energy/material basis of this universe in concerned can be said to precede and even exceed it. Or to put it in more concrete terms we may more readily understand as Christians: All things that can possibly be known are already known by the Infinite and perfect mind of God. It may also be stated; since information is enforcing this "teleported" control completely free of any known energy/material basis, that information must of necessity be foundational, in some major and significant way, to energy/matter just as energy itself is found to be foundational to matter and to exert control of matter in a major and significant way (producing work and force in matter). Indeed the Genesis account of creation; And God said, "Let there be light": and there was light, just gained a tremendous amount of credence as far as the methodological naturalism of hard science is concerned. This revelation also dramatically changes the whole fight between atheistic evolutionists and Theistic creationists. Atheistic evolutionists have always chided Theistic creationists for being out of the scientific scope of the methodological naturalism of science for not explaining to a energy/material basis, yet here we have transcendent information being brought into the very foundation of reality and science and into the center of the scope of methodological naturalism. Indeed, now atheistic evolutionists have had their feet taken completely out from under them, scientifically speaking, and now they must defend why should science (as practiced in methodological naturalism) presuppose that information can arise by totally energy/material means in an organism's genome when information is now known to be foundation to energy/matter in the first place. Indeed since the fossil record shows a sudden appearance of fossils with much required rich information content, especially in the Cambrian explosion, and the DNA molecule is now also known to be the "richest information storage device" known to man (far surpassing mans ability to do as such in computers by orders of magnitude), as well as the universe is now known to have suddenly appeared with "preset information" parameters (fine-tuned transcendent constants) that defy definition to any energy/material basis, Why should science be forced to presuppose that energy/material is generating this hyper-rich information content in any of the parent species genomes of living organisms (especially since all concise mutational studies to genomes are known to be overwhelmingly negative) and the universal constants. No Indeed, since information is now shown to be foundational to energy/matter the burden of proof is now shifted to Atheistic Evolutionists and they now must defend why they are out of the scope of methodological naturalism and why are they being "unscientific" as far as requiring information to be generated by something information is shown to be foundational to. resources: Spooky action and beyond http://www.signandsight.com/feat ures/614.html excerpt: What are you doing? Transferring the properties of light particles over certain distances onto other light particles, with no time delay. The procedure is based on phenomena which exist only in the quantum world, and is known as "quantum teleportation." http://www.newscientis t.com/channel/fundamentals/quantum-world /mg15721254.900 WHAT does a financial index have in common with Shakespeare's Richard III, a drawing of a cat and this sentence? Easy. No matter how important any one of them may be to you, they can all be reduced to the ubiquitous digital bits of the information age. And, as such, they can pass from a mind to a machine, flow down telephone lines and spill out unchanged onto a page halfway across the world. Information is nothing but patterns of 0s and 1s. Or so everyone has believed. But now a growing band of physicists is putting forth a more alarming notion. They believe that information is a superweird new substance, more ethereal than matter or energy, but every bit as real and perhaps even more fundamental. For them, information is a kind of subtle substance that lies behind and beneath physical stuff. "Information is deeper than reality," says Anton Zeilinger, a physicist at the University of Innsbruck.bornagain77
November 20, 2008
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Excellent point from gpucci regarding the definition of "nature". One of the frustrating things about the materialist sciences is that because they've been the established doctrine for so long, the materialists have gotten to define all the language- at least as far as the public is concerned. "Darwinism" its self for example; these days most people seem to think it's synonymous with "evolution". At least, most of the people I've tried to argue with do...Zakrzewski
November 20, 2008
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The problem is always the same. "Nature" is a word which has no definite meaning, because it can have (and definitely has) too many of them. The consequence is that anybody can use it as it is good for him, implicitly defining it in a convenient way so that his personal position be warranted. Because, while having no precise meaning, that word holds, for unknown reasons, a very strong suggestion of "goodness" and "positivity" for most people. So, let's be "natural", and nobody will dare be against us. In modern scientistic materialism, the only real meaning which is implicitly attributed to the word "nature" is something like "the things we believe about reality", in other words "the general model of present day science", or still "any model of the universe where matter and energy and the laws of physics, as we conceive them today, are still the only reality". Those definitions are more or less equivalent: what they have in common is reductionism, reducing everything, more or less directly, to what we already believe to be true. So, affirming that "science can consider only natural causes" is more or less equivalent to stating that "science can consider only what it already believes to be true", or "science can know only what it already knows. The fundamental assumption is that science, while being free to ascertain interesting details (what would scientists otherwise do for a living?), in essence already knows all. That assumption is not new: its last incarnation was at the end of the 19th century, when it was generally believed that physics was practically finished, and that all that was left to mathematics was a detailed final formalization. And then came Einstein, Bohr, Godel, and other good friends...gpuccio
November 20, 2008
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I like how the common idea of science includes only purely naturalistic explanations, so of course evolution can explain everything we see. xD Why can't people just be nice? It seems like with evolutionists it all has to do with better surviving, or in other words: being selfish.Domoman
November 20, 2008
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