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More Astonishing Things Materialists Say

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In response to my last post, Sev gives us an astonishing double down:

Yes, a microscopic living cell is immensely complex when you look at it closely but comparing one to a factory based on some similarities in the internal processes is an analogy not necessarily evidence of design. To judge the value of an analogy you should also consider the differences. For example, a human factory is vastly larger than a living cell. It’s also made of refined metals, plastics and glass which you don’t find in the cell. Judged by those attributes of known design, the cell is not designed.

OK, lets consider the differences that you point out.

1.  Cells are smaller than factories.  Sev, you didn’t think this one through.  Think of the original computers.  They were the size of a room and less powerful than today’s handheld smart phone.  So which is the more sophisticated design, UNIVAC or my Galaxy Edge 7?  The inference from miniaturization goes in the opposite direction you seem to think it does.  Even the simplest cell is a marvel of nano-technology.  The “nano” part of that phrase increases the confidence we can have in the design inference.

2.  Cells are made from different materials.  So?  Mount Rushmore is a designed object that uses stone as a material.  The computer I am typing this on is a designed object made of metal, plastic and silicon.  The messages Craig Venter encoded in DNA were designed objects using DNA as the medium.  The design inference is based on an analysis of whether the object is characterized by specified complexity, not the material of which it is made.

 

Comments
Again, the recipe in organisms makes a copy of the replicator vehicle (the organism) and the recipe itself. So, the nano-tech you speak of is being constructed anew during replication.
So the recipe created itself? The replication system created itself? The process of replication created itself? And "nature" created itself?Vy
April 13, 2017
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Bob O'H @ 19,
the inference from that evidence to intelligence being involved is really indirect. You don’t have any other evidence for the existence of an intelligence during the times it would need to be around.
We have absolutely no evidence as to how the first self-replicating living cell originated abiogenetically (from non-life). So following your arbitrarily made-up standard that’s not a logical possibility, so we shouldn’t even consider it. As the saying goes, “sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.” When you argue that life originated by some “mindless natural process,” that is not an explanation how. Life is not presently coming into existence by abiogenetically, so if such process existed in the past it no longer exists in the present. Therefore you are committing the same error which you accuse ID’ists of committing. That’s a double standard, is it not? This kind of reasoning on your part also reveals that you don’t really have any strong arguments based on reason, logic and the evidence. If you do, why are you holding back?john_a_designer
April 13, 2017
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Barry, Seversky asked, if a designer can create biological organisms, why can’t nature? Again, the recipe in organisms makes a copy of the replicator vehicle (the organism) and the recipe itself. So, the nano-tech you speak of is being constructed anew during replication. Are you saying the recipe is not nature? If so, why not? what is it instead?critical rationalist
April 13, 2017
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CR @ 28:
Wanting, intending or planning to make a template replicator and actually constructing on are two different things. We do not have template replicators because we do not yet possess the knowledge of how to build one.
That's right. We cannot even begin to understand, much less copy, the nano-tech inside these von Neumann self-replicators. Yet you insist on attributing this staggeringly sophisticated design to blind, unguided, purposeless forces. And you don't seem to understand there is a disconnect there. As I say, astonishing.Barry Arrington
April 13, 2017
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Critical Rationalist @28
CR: Again, the origin of an organism’s features, including its ability to self replicate, is the origin of that knowledge …
No, you have it backwards. The knowledge of how to build an organism precedes organisms.
CR: … which exists independently inside organisms, not in some external designer.
Again, you are simply mistaken.
CR: How do you explain how that knowledge got into organisms?
Roughly the same way as how knowledge got into computers: by some manufacturing process.
CR: A designer copied it there from, umm, somewhere?
I imagine that next to original design, during the manufacturing phase, some copying processes took place. Why do you have a problem with that?
CR: A designer that, “just was” complete with this knowledge already present, doesn’t serve an explanatory purpose.
You are not making sense. An intelligent designer most certainly does serve an explanatory purpose.
CR: That’s because one could more efficiently state that organisms “just appeared”, complete with that knowledge already present.
That’s simply ludicrous. Why do you say that? You do not make sense at all.
CR: The problem is that designers themselves exhibit the appearance of design.
That’s not a problem at all.
CR: They are complex, knowledge laden entities that are well adapted to the purpose of designing things. As such, they exhibit the very same property that needs to be explained.
Even if you are correct, then this is no problem at all for ID. ID is not about the ultimate origin of everything. ID is compatible with aliens as intelligent designers without offering an explanation for the origin of those aliens. Similarly, if life has a material origin, it makes little sense to object that this is no explanation because matter and laws are not explained.Origenes
April 13, 2017
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Seversky: If I claim that life on Earth is entirely the outcome of natural processes then it is for me to provide a descriptive theory of how it happened supported by observational evidence or at least a method by which such evidence could be obtained. Problem is you live and worship by a theory that its originator claimed to be exhaustive, who claimed that every form and structure down to the last detail was "explained" hee hee whatever that means, by mistakes making things better. That means you should have a theory that can turn its magnificent powerful lens on anything I mention and "explain" it. If the "theory" can't do it then it should be falsified but of course we know it is not falsifiable, just as is any religion. But I'm going to lay one on ya anyway. OK you know that famous icon, the famous fish-like animal with legs on bumper stickers and the name of the revered 19th century figurehead of materialism, right? So you know the whale testes are inside the body cavity by somehow moving there from a previously extant scrotum on the fish with legs. Problem was, keeping the cool so they could do the job. So how by slight modifications did the scrotum retract and keep the testes cool? Seems like the modification would have to be drastic, spermatogenesis would not work once inside all that insulating blubber. Also where they are is surrounded by exothermic muscle so you need to show the "random mutations" that built by slight modifications the solution to the problem. By slight modification so that a slight modification allowed the spermatogenesis. But we know the truth here. The modification was drastic, not slight, involving the invention of a heat transfer system transferring heat from the testes to the fins, the vascular CCHE (counter current heat exchanger) So do it Seversky. Show us that your revered guy was correct, that every detailed system like the one described, arose by "slight modification". If you can't do it then your religion is unfalsifiable. Here is a reference to help you out: http://richardhartersworld.com/cri_b/reviews/acker13.htmlgroovamos
April 13, 2017
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john_a_designer @ 32, James Tour makes clear that there is no basis whatsoever for the claim that life came about mindlessly and accidentally like nobody else does. He is never refuted by the atheists, only ignored.harry
April 13, 2017
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Truth Will Set You Free @ 25,
BA @ 24: Nice response. Unfortunately, these a/mats cannot comprehend the inference. You can explain it to them, but you cannot comprehend it for them.
Or maybe they are just here to obstruct and obfuscate. From what I can tell from their response’s they are either ignorant, willfully ignorant or just plain dishonest. (None of those are good.) Here is an opinion about the current state of origin of life research by one of the world’s leading chemists:
We have no idea how the molecules that compose living systems could have been devised such that they would work in concert to fulfill biology’s functions. We have no idea how the basic set of molecules, carbohydrates, nucleic acids, lipids and proteins, were made and how they could have coupled in proper sequences, and then transformed into the ordered assemblies until there was the construction of a complex system, and eventually to that first cell. Nobody has any idea on how this was done when using our commonly understood mechanisms of chemical science. Those who say that they understand are generally wholly uninformed regarding chemical synthesis. From a synthetic chemical perspective, neither I nor any of my colleagues can fathom a prebiotic molecular route to construction of a complex system. We cannot even figure out the prebiotic routes to the basic building blocks of life: carbohydrates, nucleic acids, lipids and proteins. Chemists are collectively bewildered. Hence I say that no chemist understands prebiotic synthesis of the requisite building blocks, let alone assembly into a complex system. That’s how clueless we are. I’ve asked all of my colleagues: National Academy members, Nobel Prize winners. I sit with them in offices. Nobody understands this. So if your professor says, “It’s all worked out,” [or] your teachers say, “It’s all worked out,” they don’t know what they’re talking about. It is not worked out.
https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/origin-of-life-professor-james-tour-points-the-way-forward-for-intelligent-design/ Please notice these key points: “…no chemist understands prebiotic synthesis of the requisite building blocks, let alone assembly into a complex system... "From a synthetic chemical perspective, neither I nor any of my colleagues can fathom a prebiotic molecular route to construction of a complex system. We cannot even figure out the prebiotic routes to the basic building blocks of life… "That’s how clueless we are. I’ve asked all of my colleagues: National Academy members, Nobel Prize winners. I sit with them in offices. Nobody understands this. So if your professor says, 'It’s all worked out,' [or] your teachers say, 'It’s all worked out,' they don’t know what they’re talking about. It is not worked out...." Again, that is the expert opinion of a leading chemist who actually who does cutting edge experimental research in a well-known, well-staffed university laboratory. But then some internet troll drops by and tells us all what to believe and think. Who are you going to believe?john_a_designer
April 13, 2017
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kf @ 20 - I think you made my point that "[y]ou don’t have any other evidence for the existence of an intelligence during the times it would need to be around" rather nicely. All you do is cite the same evidence, and as you are aware few people think there is validity to the inference that you make from that evidence.Bob O'H
April 13, 2017
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Seversky @ 16
the genetic code is without any biological function unless it is translated; ... the machinery by which the cell ... translates the code consists of at least fifty macromolecular components which are themselves coded in the DNA. Thus the code cannot be translated except by using certain products of its translation. This constitutes a baffling circle ... -- Karl Popper I invite all the atheists here to explain how the machinery by which the cell translates the code could have had its own assembly instructions encoded in the DNA mindlessly and accidentally. -- harry I can’t and I doubt anyone else can. We admit we simply don’t know. But even if we allow that life on Earth was created or seeded or placed here by some extraterrestrial intelligence that doesn’t answer the question of origins. The question would then become one about the origins of the designer. -- Seversky
Of course you don't know how it could have happened mindlessly and accidentally. You don't know how a laptop PC could be assembled mindlessly and accidentally, either. A metabolizing, self-replicating cell containing large quantities of intricate machinery used to do that metabolizing and replicating, machinery that was assembled according to massive quantities of extremely precise, functionally complex, digitally stored assembly instructions, provides more evidence that the cell could only have been intelligently designed than does the much simpler technology found in a laptop PC (much simpler in that the laptop PC doesn't manufacture more laptop PCs from available resources) provide evidence that the laptop PC could only have been intelligently designed. We don't know how to build robotic equipment that constructs copies of itself from available resources according to instructions stored in its memory. If we don't know how to build something like that on purpose we are in no position to claim that the much more functionally complex, self-replicating nanotechnology of life could be assembled mindlessly and accidentally. You have to know at least one way to assemble something yourself before you can begin to explain how the required process might have happened mindlessly and accidentally. Until self-replicating robotic equipment is built, or until scientists can do something like constructing a small package that when placed in the earth will grow into something the size of, say, a bush, and produce more packages like the one we started with -- until then, we won't even have an analogous process to study, one the functional complexity of which we understand, in order to determine how such a process might take place mindlessly and accidentally. If we don't have the knowledge to create a given instance of functional complexity ourselves, we have no basis whatsoever for claiming such functional complexity could be arrived at without knowledge. As for your diversion about the "origin of the designer," that is not the question at all. The question is whether intelligent agency was necessarily a causal factor in the emergence of the digital information-based, self-replicating nanotechnology of life. There is overwhelming evidence that it was necessary, and there is no basis whatsoever for claiming that it wasn't necessary.harry
April 13, 2017
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critical rationalist
CR: A designer that, “just was” complete with this knowledge already present, doesn’t serve an explanatory purpose.
So, according to you, Leonardo da Vinci doesn't serve an explanatory purpose wrt the Mona Lisa?
CR: That’s because one could more efficiently state that organisms “just appeared”, complete with that knowledge already present.
One could more efficiently state that the Mona Lisa “just appeared” and dispense with Leonardo da Vinci?Origenes
April 13, 2017
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Yes, Barry. Wanting, intending or planning to make a template replicator and actually constructing on are two different things. We do not have template replicators because we do not yet possess the knowledge of how to build one. And when we do, it will be because we created the knowledge of what transformations of matter are required. Again, the origin of an organism's features, including its ability to self replicate, is the origin of that knowledge, which exists independently inside organisms, not in some external designer. How do you explain how that knowledge got into organisms? A designer copied it there from, umm, somewhere? A designer that, "just was" complete with this knowledge already present, doesn't serve an explanatory purpose. That's because one could more efficiently state that organisms "just appeared", complete with that knowledge already present. The appearance of design is being well adapted to serve a purpose. That is, if it was modified it would no longer serve that purpose nearly as well, if even at all. This was clarified by William Palley when he compared a rock and a watch. The rock can be a paperweight, a weapon, a building material, etc. It is not well adapted to any of those purpose. And it's explanation is that it was formed along with the earth via geological theory. But the watch couldn't have just been lying there. Nor is it a raw material. It is well adapted to the purpose of telling time. And it couldn't have come about though any other explanation than knowledge. However, at the time, Paley couldn't imaging anything other than a designer as being the explanation. The problem is that designers themselves exhibit the appearance of design. They are complex, knowledge laden entities that are well adapted to the purpose of designing things. As such, they exhibit the very same property that needs to be explained. it's unclear how being well adapted to serve a purpose (design things) can be the explanation for being well adapted to serve a purpose.critical rationalist
April 13, 2017
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TWSYF @25. My sense is that they comprehend it just fine. They just refuse to admit they do, because of where the entailments lead.AnimatedDust
April 13, 2017
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CR - Organisms do not appear out of thin air , Laurence Krauss , first there was nothing not even thin air,now we have organisms , so please tell me how organism do not appear out of thin air , seeing that once all there was , was nothing, and now we have organisms.Marfin
April 13, 2017
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BA @ 24: Nice response. Unfortunately, these a/mats cannot comprehend the inference. You can explain it to them, but you cannot comprehend it for them.Truth Will Set You Free
April 13, 2017
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CR @ 23: "There are significant differences between organisms and the human designed things in your quote. First, biological organisms are template replicators." I will quote my response to Bob @ 2: "Yes, Bob that is an important difference. Our most sophisticated technology is not even close to being able to create a von Neumann self-replicator. But you don’t seem to understand the inference that should be drawn from that fact."Barry Arrington
April 13, 2017
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@Barry Sevensky wrote…
The problem for creationists is that positing an intelligence that is able to create life out of inanimate materials is to claim that life can be created out of non-living materials. The question then becomes, if it’s possible at the hands of a creator then why not through natural causation?
Barry wrote…
if the space station is possible at the hands of a creator then why not through natural causation if a computer is possible at the hands of a creator then why not through natural causation if the comment rvb8 wrote is possible at the hands of a creator then why not through natural causation if the sonnets of Shakespeare are possible at the hands of a creator then why not through natural causation
There are significant differences between organisms and the human designed things in your quote. First, biological organisms are template replicators. Organisms are not assembled externally. Rather they contain a recipe which, when executed, creates a copy of itself and the recipe. If something is not prohibited by the laws of physics, the only thing preventing it from occurring is knowing how. Since organisms do not appear out of thin air, their construction is not prohibited by the laws of physics. IOW, it’s a question of knowledge. The origin of those features is the origin of that knowledge. That's what needs to be explained. Second, you’re presenting a very parochial view of knowledge. Specially, I would agree that some kinds of knowledge can only be created by people. Only people can conceive of problems, conjecture explanatory theories of how the world works to solve them, then criticize them. So only people can create explanatory knowledge. And it has significant reach. However, that’s not the kind of knowledge contained in organisms. Both explanatory and non-explanatory knowledge is created by variation and selection. Only explanatory knowledge can be crated by people. Evolution is an example of the former, not the latter.critical rationalist
April 13, 2017
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Marfin, an interesting point, given that cosmological fine tuning points to design of the laws and circumstances of the universe. Yes, that level of design needs to be part of the whole discussion. KFkairosfocus
April 13, 2017
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Does anyone know of anything that looks designed but we know for a fact was not designed.Marfin
April 13, 2017
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BO'H: Not so. We have a trillion-member observational base on the known cause of functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information. Uniformly it is intelligently directed configuration. We have precisely zero cases of origin of FSCO/I beyond the 500 - 1,000 bit threshold by any pattern of blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. (For instance, random document generation tests are a factor of 10^100 or so short of the lower end of that range, insofar as config space scale is concerned. And this brings up the underlying analysis of blind search challenge in large spaces of possibilities, which at the threshold overwhelm sol system scale to observed cosmos scale resources, reducing possible scope of blind search based on atomic resources, to a fraction negligibly different from zero.) In this context, the deep past of origins is unobservable, we are forced to investigate by examining traces and inferring the best current empirically warranted explanation. For such, Newton aptly counselled that we should infer based on factors shown to cause the like effects in the here and now. For reasons of anchoring explanation to empirical reality rather than what could easily become ideologically loaded speculative hypothesising. What has happened is that the FSCO/I rich traces of origins would point one way, the demands of evolutionary materialist ideology push in another direction. And today's dominant elites prefer that self-refuting, self-falsifying system to a responsible inference on prudent principles of induction. Sad, but telling. KFkairosfocus
April 13, 2017
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harry @ 7, kf @ 8 & Origenes @ 9 - the evidence that you're citing is evidence that something interesting happened, but the inference from that evidence to intelligence being involved is really indirect. You don't have any other evidence for the existence of an intelligence during the times it would need to be around.Bob O'H
April 13, 2017
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bb @ 14, Here is another stunning admission by Richard Dawkins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoncJBrrdQ8 The first life on earth, says Dawkins, could have been intelligently designed-- as long as it was an ET intelligence not God. Of course other atheists have admitted the same thing. See the following paper (Icarus, 1973) written by Francis Crick and British chemist Leslie Orgel. http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/Disclosure/PDF%20Documents/Directed%20Panspermia%20F.%20H.%20C.%20CRICK%20AND%20L.%20E.%20Orgel.pdf I believe it was Crick and Orgel who coined the term directed panspermia. To be fair I think Dawkins later tried to walk back his position. Maybe Crick and Orgel did as well. But the point remains, until you prove how life the first originated, intelligent design is a logical possibility. Ironically, in the Ben Stein interview Dawkins said that if life were intelligently designed (by space aliens) that scientific research may be able to discover their signature. Didn’t someone write a book about the origin of life with the word signature in the title? Who was that? I wonder if he picked up the idea from Dawkins.john_a_designer
April 12, 2017
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john_a_designer @ 11
I have said this here before, the burden of proof is on those who believe that some mindless, purposeless process can “create” a planned and purposeful (teleological) self-replicating system capable of evolving further though a purposeless mindless process (at least until it “creates” something purposeful, because, according to Dawkins, living things appear to be purposeful.) Frankly, this is something our regular interlocutors consistently and persistently fail to do.
The burden of proof for a claim rests with the person making that claim. If I claim that life on Earth is entirely the outcome of natural processes then it is for me to provide a descriptive theory of how it happened supported by observational evidence or at least a method by which such evidence could be obtained. If you claim that life on Earth was the product of intelligent design then you need to provide a descriptive theory of how it was done again supported by observational evidence or at least a method by which such evidence could be obtained.Seversky
April 12, 2017
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harry @ 5
I invite all the atheists here to explain how the machinery by which the cell translates the code could have had its own assembly instructions encoded in the DNA mindlessly and accidentally.
I can't and I doubt anyone else can. We admit we simply don't know. But even if we allow that life on Earth was created or seeded or placed here by some extraterrestrial intelligence that doesn't answer the question of origins. The question would then become one about the origins of the designer.
I further invite them to explain, since intelligence is a known reality, why it can’t be considered among the possible causal factors in the emergence of life.
I don't exclude intelligence as a possible cause but, since it wasn't us and there is no evidence of an advanced intelligence other than us on Earth in the past, it would have to be an extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI). Unfortunately, we don't have any evidence of ETI either so it's hard to say which is the more likely explanation, nature or artifice.
Contemporary science perverted by atheism treats the origin of life in manner that is as absurd as insisting that an extraterrestrial, unmanned (un-aliened) drone that had landed on planet Earth was really just an extremely strange meteorite simply because they didn’t like the thought of other intelligent agents existing anywhere else in the Universe. That would be ridiculous. So is science perverted by atheism when it comes to the origin of life.
I would be absolutely fascinated if an alien probe or spaceship landed on Earth and I'm pretty sure every scientist in the world, whether atheist or theist, would be even more so. The possibility of ETI is exciting not alarming. If anything, it seems to Christians who seem to feel at least ambivalent about the prospect, possibly because it could threaten their assumed position as the pinnacle of God's creation.Seversky
April 12, 2017
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1. Cells are smaller than factories. Sev, you didn’t think this one through. Think of the original computers. They were the size of a room and less powerful than today’s handheld smart phone. So which is the more sophisticated design, UNIVAC or my Galaxy Edge 7? The inference from miniaturization goes in the opposite direction you seem to think it does. Even the simplest cell is a marvel of nano-technology. The “nano” part of that phrase increases the confidence we can have in the design inference.
I wasn't referring to a trend towards miniaturization, just pointing out that in any analogical comparison you should take note of the differences as well as the similarities. The analogy of the cell as a factory may illustrate how the internal processes are organized but it doesn't necessarily warrant an inference to design if you consider all the differences as well as the similarities
2. Cells are made from different materials. So? Mount Rushmore is a designed object that uses stone as a material. The computer I am typing this on is a designed object made of metal, plastic and silicon. The messages Craig Venter encoded in DNA were designed objects using DNA as the medium. The design inference is based on an analysis of whether the object is characterized by specified complexity, not the material of which it is made.
I still say that at an instinctive level we recognize design - or at least the appearance of design - based on the kind of "pattern-matching" I described. The ID project of estimating specified complexity or FSCO/I has yet to show it is a reliable measure of design, regardless of the source. It may work but we don't know that yet.Seversky
April 12, 2017
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JAD @11 It's interesting that materialists demand tangible evidence for God, or design, yet deny what they see before their own eyes, i.e. Richard Dawkins. By his own observation, and admission, life looks designed, but he dismisses his observation as illusion and embraces his a priori conviction that it isn't despite. I think one way selective hyperskepticism is demonstrated is when one dismisses his own observation as illusion. EDIT: King David's statement in Psalm 14:1, that the fool says there is no God, really is manifestly true.bb
April 12, 2017
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RVB: Thank god (heh:), the obvious has been consigned to the rubbish bin of understanding, and we now prefer evidence, experimentation, and the unobvious, to the vacuous, empty, ‘obvious’. [previous thread] Thank goodness we know metamorphosis came to be by random mutation and not because it was obvious but because it was proven. "Heh" that's right scientists have identified the one genetic random mutation that caused caterpillars, who needed to fly to survive, to spin cocoons and obliterate themselves and reassemble from the goo another completely different creature. That random mutation is very famous and made the researchers famous, I just can't remember their names right now if you would help me out. Someone else also proved that the winged creatures benefited from selective advantage over caterpillars, proving they had better survival statistics than caterpillars. They invented whole branch of statistics to do the proof. Those guys are famous too but I'm stuck right now trying to remember who they were. If you guys could help me out. Thank goodness we don't have to just rely on intuition here, this is settled.groovamos
April 12, 2017
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Materialists say the darndest things.Aeneas Pietas
April 12, 2017
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In his book, The Blind Watchmaker, Richard Dawkins tried to argue that biology was “the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” Notice that to explain away design he has to concede that there is the appearance or intuition of design. But is it merely just all appearance-- just an illusion? Notice the logic Dawkins wants us to accept. He wants us to implicitly accept his premise that that living things only have the appearance of being designed. But how do we know that premise is true? Is it self-evidently true? I think not. Why can’t it be true that living thing appear to be designed for a purpose because they really have been designed for a purpose? Is that logically impossible? Metaphysically impossible? Scientifically impossible? If one cannot answer those questions then design cannot be eliminated from consideration or the discussion. I have said this here before, the burden of proof is on those who believe that some mindless, purposeless process can “create” a planned and purposeful (teleological) self-replicating system capable of evolving further though a purposeless mindless process (at least until it “creates” something purposeful, because, according to Dawkins, living things appear to be purposeful.) Frankly, this is something our regular interlocutors consistently and persistently fail to do. As a theist I do not claim I can prove (at least in an absolute sense) that my world view is true. Can naturalists/ materialists prove that their world view is true? Personally I believe that all worldviews rest on unprovable assumptions. No one can prove that their world view is true. Is that true of naturalism/ materialism? If it can someone with that world view needs to step forward and provide the proof.john_a_designer
April 12, 2017
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Factory and machine planning and design, and what it tells us about cell factories and molecular machines The Cell is a Factory http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t2245-factory-and-machine-planning-and-design-and-what-it-tells-us-about-cell-factories-and-molecular-machines The cell is like a factory, that has various computer like hierarchically organized systems of hardware and software, various language based informational systems, a translation system, hudge amounts of precise instructional/specified, complex information stored and extract systems to make all parts needed to produce the factory and replicate itself, the scaffold structure, that permits the build of the indispensable protection wall, form and size of its building, walls with gates that permits cargo in and out, recognition mechanisms that let only the right cargo in, has specific sites and production lines, "employees", busy and instructed to produce all kind of necessary products, parts and subparts with the right form and size through the right materials, others which mount the parts together in the right order, on the right place, in the right sequence, at the right time, which has sophisticated check and error detection mechanisms all along the production process, the hability to compare correctly produced parts to faulty ones and discard the faulty ones, and repeat the process to make the correct ones; highways and cargo carriers that have tags which recognize where to drop the cargo where its needed, cleans up waste and has waste bins and sophisticated recycle mechanisms, storage departments, produces its energy and shuttles it to where its needed, and last not least, does reproduce itself. The salient thing is that the individual parts and compartments have no function by their own. They had to emerge ALL AT ONCE, No stepwise manner is possible, all systems are INTERDEPENDENT and IRREDUCIBLE. And it could not be through evolution, since evolution depends on fully working self replicating cells, in order to function. How can someone rationally argue that the origin of the most sophisticated factory in the universe would be probable to be based on natural occurence, without involving any guiding intelligence ? To go from a bacterium to people is less of a step than to go from a mixture of amino acids to a bacterium. — Lynn Margulis Molecular machines in biology http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1289-molecular-machines-in-biology It is now clear that most functions in the cell are not carried out by single protein enzymes, colliding randomly within the cellular jungle, but by macromolecular complexes containing multiple subunits with specific functions (Alberts 1998). Many of these complexes are described as “molecular machines.” Indeed, this designation captures many of the aspects characterizing these biological complexes: modularity, complexity, cyclic function, and, in most cases, the consumption of energy. Examples of such molecular machines are the replisome, the transcriptional machinery, the spliceosome, and the ribosome. The Cell is a factory. the Nucleus is the control office. The cell membrane the security guard and wall. The cytoskeleton is like the support structures. The Cytoplasm is like the Air and the Factory FloorThe endoplasmic reticulum is like the Assembly Line. Ribosomes are information translation devices. The Golgi Apparatus is like the Alpha and Beta Testers. Lysosomes are like the Janitors. Vacuoles are the Storage Units. The Mitochondria is the Powerplant. Cloroplasts are like the Solar Panels. The Nucleus is like the control office. Stores the information for our body/ the factory controls the cell/factory most important part of the cell/company The cell membrane is like the security guard only lets certain things enter and leave the cell/factory makes sure the things the cell/factory needs comes in. makes sure the things that would be bad for the cell/factory can't come in The cytoskeleton/ the cell wall is like the support structures Gives support to the building Gives the building a shape The Cytoplasm is like the Air and the Factory Floor Takes up most of the cell's volume Covers almost all of where the work is being done The endoplasmic reticulum is like the Assembly Line The E.R. serves as the site of production for proteins The assembly line is where all of the products are made Ribosomes are like the Employees on the Floor Ribosomes make the proteins, so they are the employees of the cell The Employees on the floor are the people who make all of the products that are shipped out The Golgi Apparatus is like the Alpha and Beta Testers The Golgi Apparatus makes sure the Products put out by the E.R. will work The alpha and Beta testers are there to make sure the Factory's products come out the way they should Lysosomes are like the Janitors The Lysosomes contain digestive enzymes to clean up the cell and get rid of waste The Janitors always make sure the factory is clean Vacuoles are like the Storage Units The vacuole is there for storage The storage units in a factory store the thing that will be needed for future use The Mitochondria are like the Powerplant The Mitochondria break down food molecules to create energy for the cell The Powerplant of the factory creates energy for the Factory The Cloroplasts are like the Solar Panels The cloroplasts are only in some cells (plant cells) and they create energy from sunlight Not everyone has Solar Panels, and they soak up the energy made by the sunOtangelo Grasso
April 12, 2017
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