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Most Forms of the Argument From Evil Are Incoherent

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In a comment to another post StephenB noted that atheists often argue as follows: “evil exists; therefore God does not exist.” That is true. Yet, the incoherence of the argument should be immediately obvious. Let’s see why.

The argument to which Stephen alluded is an abbreviation of a more formal argument that goes like this:

Major Premise: If an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being (i.e., God) existed, he would not allow evil to exist.

Minor Premise: Evil exists

Conclusion: Therefore, God does not exist.

The problem with the argument is in the word “evil.” What does it mean? If metaphysical naturalism is true – if particles in motion are the only things that exist – then the word “evil” must necessarily have no “objective” meaning. In other words, if there is no transcendent moral lawgiver, there is no transcendent moral law. It follows that all moral choices are inherently subjective, choices that we choose because evolution has conditioned us to do so. Therefore, for the atheist, the word “evil” means “that which I personally do not prefer because evolution has conditioned me not to prefer it.”

Now, let’s reexamine the argument, but instead of using the word “evil” let us amplify it by using the definition.

Major Premise: If an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being (i.e., God) existed, he would not allow that which I personally do not prefer because evolution has conditioned me not to prefer it to exist.

Minor Premise: That which I personally do not prefer because evolution has conditioned me not to prefer it exists.

Conclusion: Therefore, God does not exist.

The argument in this form is plainly blithering nonsense.

We see then that the atheist makes an illogical leap. His argument is true only if it is false. The word “evil” has objective meaning only if God exists. Therefore, when the atheist is making his argument from the existence of evil he is necessarily doing one of two things:

1. Arguing in the nonsensical manner I illustrated; or

2. Judging the non-existence of God using a standard that does not exist unless God in fact exists.

Either way, the argument fails.

More problematic for the theist (at least theists who believe God is omnibenevolent) is Ivan Karamazov. Readers will remember that Ivan’s argument took the following form:

Definition: We will call the “omnipotent being” God

Major Premise: If God is omnibenevolent he would not allow evil to exist.

Minor Premise: Evil exists

Conclusion: Therefore, God is not omnibenevolent.

Keep in mind the difference between a valid argument and a sound argument. A valid argument is an argument in which the conclusion follows logically from the premises. Valid arguments do not necessarily result in true conclusions. They result in logical conclusions. An argument is said to be “sound” when it is valid AND its premises are true. A sound argument results in conclusions that are both logical and true.

The first argument that I set forth is not even valid. Ivan’s argument is a better argument in this sense – it is valid, meaning the conclusion at least has the virtue of following from the premises.

But is Ivan’s argument sound? That is another question altogether, the answer to which is beyond the scope of this post. Suffice at this point to say that Christians believe Ivan’s major premise is not true. They believe an omnibenevolent God might allow evil to exist in order to give the gift of free will to the beings he creates.

Comments
F/N: The argument from evil, deductive form is arguably about 40 years past sell-by date, and the inductive form is considerably weakened by linked considerations. Plantinga showed by the free will defense [cf. skeletal summary] -- NOT a theodicy -- that a reasonable and recognisable theistic concept of God is definitively coherent. And, G2 and ilk, as long as there are those . . . e.g. some of the new atheists -- who use this outdated argument or arguments that imply it to poison the atmosphere for discussion [cf. some notorious diatribes], it is in order to respond to it. KFkairosfocus
December 9, 2013
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CYankee: Well, not quite. Give up the classical notion of God and the theodicy problem becomes more apparent...
I disagree, and here's why...
... Every time you demand that something outht to be one way and not another, you are essentially saying that there is a basis for “ought.”
The basis for the ought is "I don't want to suffer." And people with empathy don't want others to suffer either. "I don't want to suffer" is purely borne out of a conscious desire. There is no philosophically metaphysical principle beyond that.
"But materialism doesn’t provide a grounding for “ought” other than one’s own whims; and it can’t even answer the question of why we even have whims."
I agree. However, materialism, or any other "ism", need not do that. The only "ism" the counts is the I-Do-Not-Want-To-Suffer "ism." That's where it all stems from. Everything else is a phantom with no actual meaning.
"The problem of evil is such because there IS a God."
No. The problem of evil (suffering) is such because there is consciousness.
"If there is no God, we should not care that there is evil,"
No. If there was no consciousness, we should not care that there is evil (suffering). The God hypothesis is unnecessary to this issue. The classical notion of God is superfluous. Consciousness is all you need. Happy Holidays.CentralScrutinizer
December 9, 2013
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JLA
If there is no god then there is no good and evil. Anything goes and I accept that.
Right.
Morality is just a human construct which I have no obligation to follow. Empathy and compassion is just an evolutionary tool to propagate our DNA.
OK. I must have misunderstood your question about the prospect of your family being attacked. You wrote,
Why wouldn't God stop it?
" I guess you meant this: If God exists, why wouldn't he stop such an evil? The classical answer seems reasonable to me. God has endowed his creatures with free will, which means they can abuse the privilege, do evil things, and affect people (and nature) in adverse ways--even in ways that offend the atheists evolved sensibilities.
However, if there is a god then evil exists both moral and natural. Why does he allow them? Why intervene with the Canaanites but not with the Nazis? Why free the slaves in Egpyt but not the ones in Europe? Why not create a world that can operate without natural disasters?
God's intervention may be conditional on whether or not His help is asked for or even wanted. Or, for the sake of His plan of salvation, help may be necessary at the early stages to preserve an ethnic line has not yet been fully developed. There could be many reasons to be selective about when and if to intervene. None of this is related to the point that atheism's argument against God is incoherent, which was supposed to be the subject being discussed.StephenB
December 9, 2013
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JLAfan2001, Your position is logically consistent, but I'd not like to be in a position where you could take advantage of me and get away with it.Collin
December 9, 2013
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An argument from evil could be stated like this: If there is God, there must be no evil. There are things in the world that, if there were a God, would be defined as evil. Therefore, there is no God. I would then turn to the free will defense. I would also think about responding by asking if we can objectively detect good in the world. If there is objective good in the world, then there must be a benevolent God of some kind. And, borrowing from Augustine, since God is infinitely wizer and more knowledgeable than us, we are not in a position to question His means or motives.Collin
December 9, 2013
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StephenB If there is no god then there is no good and evil. Anything goes and I accept that. Morality is just a human construct which I have no obligation to follow. Empathy and compassion is just an evolutionary tool to propagate our DNA. If one doesn't feel them, it doesn't make them a psychopath. That just means they evolved differently and randomly. However, if there is a god then evil exists both moral and natural. Why does he allow them? Why intervene with the Canaanites but not with the Nazis? Why free the slaves in Egpyt but not the ones in Europe? Why not create a world that can operate without natural disasters?JLAfan2001
December 9, 2013
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JLAfan 2001
I personally think that there is no morality and no good or evil. Nature just is. We are animals and we act like it hence the school shootings. It wasn’t evil it, it was just nature taking it’s course. If the same were done to my family, I would attack to defend just like any other animal does. If I win, the attacker dies. If I lose, my family dies. It’s not evil, just nature and survival. Now, if there is a god, why wouldn’t he stop it?
Huh? If it isn't evil, why should God stop it?StephenB
December 9, 2013
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TSE,
Arguing the EXISTENCE of God from evil is ridiculous.
I'm not certain what you meant by this. Did you mean to say "arguing the non-existence of God from evil is ridiculous?" I think the existence of evil makes God's existence quite apparent, and that's what makes the argument from evil "ridiculous."CannuckianYankee
December 9, 2013
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But ID is scientific. Nothing to do with god. No No No.
Don't be churlish. Where in this thread is the discussion of science and ID tied to the philosophical discussion of the existence of God? Because this site is designed to discuss ID, it cannot discuss philosophy? You better report to all of the NDE websites then. Let them know they cannot discuss atheism. Simply because ID may lead some to consider God more carefully on a philosophical level, doesn't mean ID has ANYTHING to do with religion.TSErik
December 9, 2013
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But ID is scientific. Nothing to do with god. No No No.Graham2
December 9, 2013
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The "argument from evil" is nonsense. I'll paraphrase my argument from the "argument from bad design" thread as here it is also apt. The "argument from evil" completely fails at the premise. The atheist argument goes:
-If there is a source of all good, there is a God. -If the God the source of the good, there would be no evil. -There is evil, therefore there is no source of pure good and no God.
This argument completely fails as it presumes human understanding is analogous to that of God. This is completely fallacious as God, by definition, would need to be far beyond human, and even universal, understanding with regards to the mind. One cannot base an argument of objectivity on one’s own subjective assertion of what God should be. Arguing the EXISTENCE of God from evil is ridiculous. One may try and argue against, say, a certain type of God, a benevolent God, with the argument from evil saying that God is capricious and not worthy of worship. However, this person is just as silly, and just as sophomoric. This adjustment to the argument, again, presumes the mind of God. It suggests that we understand evil, agency, cause and effect, at the level of God itself. A child may presume a parent harshly chiding them, refusing to allow them cookies before dinner, as hatred. However, we know the child is young, and will pout because it lacks the capability to fully understand the actions of the parent, and we understand the parent still loves the child. It would also be important to note, that in many religious schools of thought, God isn't there to create a physical existence that is full of bubblegum farts, rainbows and smiles. The second this idea is understood, the argument from evil falls apart as the argument of evil presumes God must have wanted this existence to be perfect. @MF I must agree with Barry that it seems as though you call upon objectivity and subjectivity at a whim, lacking certain consistency. Perhaps I'm wrong as my flu has lead to far too much cough medicine today.TSErik
December 9, 2013
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JLAfan2001 @ 12. My hat is off to you. Most atheists try to have their cake and eat it too. They deny God but they refuse to accept the nihilism that inevitably follows from that denial. It is truly refreshing to find an atheist who has the honesty and courage to accept the logical consequences of his own truth claims. I don’t agree with you, but I respect you far more than I respect the facile “cake and eat it too” crowd.Barry Arrington
December 9, 2013
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MF Barry:
Wow Mark. You argue until you are blue in the face that all moral questions are subjective. Then when it suits you, you turn right around and argue that your assessment of whether certain suffering you observe in the world is unnecessary or not unnecessary — an essentially moral assessment — is based upon some objective standard. Staggering.
I noticed that too. :) CS
Give up the classical notion of God and the theodicy problem vanishes. And while you’re wrangling about all of that, don’t forget to love your neighbor as yourself.
Well, not quite. Give up the classical notion of God and the theodicy problem becomes more apparent. Every time you demand that something outht to be one way and not another, you are essentially saying that there is a basis for "ought." But materialism doesn't provide a grounding for "ought" other than one's own whims; and it can't even answer the question of why we even have whims. The problem of evil is such because there IS a God. If there is no God, we should not care that there is evil, nor should we recognize what it is. We should not even care to concern ourselves with "unnecessary suffering," because at the bottom of it all is meaningless existence. Remember this?
The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousand of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so... In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
R. Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (Basic Books: 1995), p. 133. Dawkins has far from done away with the problem of evil here. He has made it starkly apparent in a laughable contradiction. He should not care to use words like "pitiless," "indifference," "purpose," "evil," "suffering," etc.. if the universe were actually the way he describes it. What Dawkins is implying is that you and he SHOULD care. Therefore the universe cannot be that way. Once you have someone in the universe who cares about suffering, you are contradicting the description of the universe as being entirely indifferent. And in case you a case where you try to argue that you and me are not a part of the universe, you're tossed further into an abyss of incoherence. We believe that loving our neighbor has meaning because God IS love. If there is no God, then loving someone might be a survival response, but ultimately it is meaningless.CannuckianYankee
December 9, 2013
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Barry, Athesists may not have an adequate answer but neither do theists. We may not have the answer to "what is good and what is evil" but you don't have the answer as to "why god allows it" either. I personally think that there is no morality and no good or evil. Nature just is. We are animals and we act like it hence the school shootings. It wasn't evil it, it was just nature taking it's course. If the same were done to my family, I would attack to defend just like any other animal does. If I win, the attacker dies. If I lose, my family dies. It's not evil, just nature and survival. Now, if there is a god, why wouldn't he stop it?JLAfan2001
December 9, 2013
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While all of the above points are interesting, I don't think they address Barry's point about the atheist's incoherent argument. Here is another way of putting it: Evil (anything that violates my evolved standard of justice) exists. Therefore, a good God, who has an unchanging standard of justice, doesn't exist because he allowed my evolved standard of justice to be violated.StephenB
December 9, 2013
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JLAfan. As I said, discussions regarding the topics you raise are beyond the scope of this post. There are answers, to be sure, but I want to focus on my topic, not another topic. Do you have an answer to my argument? I suppose not. Otherwise you would have included it in your post. I see you are using the time-honored atheist tactic of "can't answer the question, then change the subject." That's OK. Refusing to answer is a sort of answer.Barry Arrington
December 9, 2013
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The existence of hurricanes, earthquakes etc suggest that 1) there is no god and the laws of nature just runs it's course bowling over all organisms 2) god is not as "good" as theists make him out to be. It is possible that we may not know the mind of god and why he allows disasters but it could also be that he delights in suffering too. He's two-faced. 3) god can't create an eco-system that doesn't require these certain laws that creates disaters which means he's not all-powerful. When he creates a "new" earth, will it have the same physics that causes hurricanes or will it have "new" physics that won't? If he can create this "new" earth without disaster then why didn't he create this one like that? God is not all-good as the bible describes him or not all-powerful as the bible describes him or doesn't exist. Take your pick.JLAfan2001
December 9, 2013
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Mark Frank:
“Unnecessary suffering” seems to me an objective description not a value judgment.
Wow Mark. You argue until you are blue in the face that all moral questions are subjective. Then when it suits you, you turn right around and argue that your assessment of whether certain suffering you observe in the world is unnecessary or not unnecessary -- an essentially moral assessment -- is based upon some objective standard. Staggering. Let’s test this. The phrase “unnecessary suffering” implies that there is some level of suffering that is not unnecessary. Pray tell us the objective criterion you have used to distinguish between the two. Perhaps an example will help as you ponder the question. I take it you believe the Sandy Hook shootings involved “unnecessary suffering.” I take it you would also believe that the disappointment I felt when I realized at about age 18 that I would probably never play football for the Dallas Cowboys was not unnecessary suffering. Where, exactly is the line between unnecessary suffering and suffering that is not unnecessary? You claim to have access to an objective description of that line. Tell us where it is.Barry Arrington
December 9, 2013
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We don’t know what is necessary. In my philosophy it is entirely plausible that a human spirit needs to learn that he is not his body – by way of suffering and dying. This may very well be a lesson that needs to be learned on our way to enlightenment. On a more general note: can wisdom be acquired without suffering? The God of Christianity, according to some, seems to be more into testing people, whether they are good or bad, than giving them experiences that would help them on their way towards a higher self-awareness - being good and/or innocent gets one a much higher rating than self-awareness. This leaves open the question why it is that some people are more ‘tested’ than others. This question has to do with the question if a God – within the context of such a version of Christianity - who treats people so unevenly, can be benevolent. Why is it that some people are hardly tested at all, while others have to suffer horribly ?Box
December 9, 2013
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Give up the classical notion of God and the theodicy problem vanishes. And while you're wrangling about all of that, don't forget to love your neighbor as yourself.CentralScrutinizer
December 9, 2013
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#2 CY "Unnecessary suffering" seems to me an objective description not a value judgement. Obviously you can determine whether some creature is suffering without making a value judgement about it. So the issue is only about whether "unnecessary" is a value judgement. I meant this as a short hand for "could be avoided without any significant consequences other than stopping the suffering". This is admittedly difficult to determine with certainty but is not a value judgement. If the boxing day tsunami had not happened life would almost certainly have carried on much as it did except 200,000 more people would have lived to enjoy it.Mark Frank
December 9, 2013
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The solution to the theodicy issue for the Christian is in the premise,
evil exist
or as Mark Frank has framed it
There is unnecessary suffering
If neither one of these two expressions is true, then there is no contradiction with a omni-benevolent and omniscient God for the Christian. So is the suffering we see, necessary? And if this is true, why? I again ask for a definition of the word "evil." It seems to be too vague a word to have an exact definition that we all use at the same time. The word "suffering" seems to be a better word to use though the concept of "evil" seems to have a lot more attached to it than just sufferig. There is also the difference between moral evil and natural evil. The first is easier to handle in the theodicy question since it results from a will other than God. But an omniscient God could stop these acts of suffering from happening. So why doesn't He? And He could certainly stop the natural suffering such as earthquakes/tsunamis, famine, disease, illness etc from happening. Whey doesn't He? Some have offered up "The Fall" as an answer but could there be other reasons? It has occupied tens of thousands of pages. Why is it necessary?jerry
December 9, 2013
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What does "omnibenevolent" mean? Any definition I heard so far is related to our relative existence of individuals. As such it has nothing to do with the Absolute (God). To apply "omnibenevolent" to God is nonsense. One cannot attribute relative dual concepts (evil, well, etc.) to the non-dual Absolute. I don't understand why some continue to use it and, doing that, offer to atheists an easy objection.niwrad
December 9, 2013
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MF,
Major Premise: If an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being (i.e., God) existed, he would not allow unnecessary suffering (e.g. Tsunamis, malaria). Minor Premise: There is unnecessary suffering.
"Unnecessary suffering" is a value judgment, which implies evil. It's no different at all from Barry's formation of the argument. You're simply mincing words. In order to acknowledge that suffering is what it is; you'd have to believe that it is not a good thing. If suffering is not a good thing, then it is a bad thing; thus, evil. And how do you judge that suffering is "unnecessary"? In a materialistic world it is neither necessary of unnecessary. It just is.CannuckianYankee
December 9, 2013
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The argument can be adjusted trivially to overcome this objection by rephrasing it terms of phenomena that we would (subjectively) reject. Major Premise: If an omnipotent and omnibenevolent being (i.e., God) existed, he would not allow unnecessary suffering (e.g. Tsunamis, malaria). Minor Premise: There is unnecessary suffering.Mark Frank
December 9, 2013
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