Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

My Views in a Nutshell

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A couple of days ago I received the following email from a student in France:

 Hello,First of all, please excuse my poor English (I am a French native).  I am currently writing an essay in epistemology with two of my co- students (I’m in second year of M.Sc in research, specialized in Evolutive Ecology and Epidemiology of Host-Parasites relationships), in which we focus on the gloabl acceptance by society of different models to explain evolution. More than the models (we choose the “original” theory of Charles Darwin, the transformist theory of Lamarck, the “balanced equilibrium” theory of Stephen Jay-Gould, and the more recent Intelligent Design), we are interested in the people who believe in them.I contact you because the blog “Uncommon descent” states you as a friend of them. This blog is well known in France as one of the main information stream on Intelligent Design. My question is: how do you comme to trust in Intelligent Design? What do you think to be the most important flaws in the modern theories describing the course of evolution?

I hope you will find some time to answer me,

Regards,

XXXXXX

How would you respond to Mr. X’s inquiry.  My stab at a response is below.

 Dear Mr. X,I am writing to respond to your email of September 27, 2007.   You ask two questions: (1) How do you come to trust in Intelligent Design? and (2) What do you think to be the most important flaws in the modern theories describing the course of evolution? I will answer the questions in reverse order.

Question 2. Darwinism’s flaws include:

A. Specified Complex Information. DNA is an information code of staggering complexity and elegance. We know that complex specific information of this sort is not normally generated though unguided mindless natural processes. When we see complex information in other contexts (think of Mount Rushmore), we are compelled to assume that the cause of the information was intelligent agency. The Darwinist, on the other hand, is compelled to “explain away” what everyone would concede is initially the most probable explanation.

Dawkins writes: “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design (New York; Norton, 1986), 1.

Darwinists attempt to explain this complex information by resorting to the “numerous monkeys typing” randomness. In other words, the theory goes, if you have enough monkeys pounding on enough typewriters, sooner or later they will pound out the works of Shakespeare. We now know, thanks largely to the work of scholars like William Dembski, that appeals to randomness of this sort are mathematically unsound given the limits on probabilistic resources set by the apparent age of the universe.

Darwinists themselves are beginning to recognize this conundrum and some have attempted to solve it by substituting “large number of monkeys” with “infinite monkeys.” They do this by positing a “multiverse theory” of infinite universes. But this is a double-edged sword for the Darwinist. On the one hand, “infinite monkeys” does in fact get one to the generation of complex specified information by random means. On the other hand, the multiverse theory is not testable or falsifiable. It is not science; it is metaphysics, philosophy or, dare I say, religion. Multiverse theory also violates the elementary principle of scientific inquiry known as “parsimony,” which states that, other things being equal, the simplest explanation is to be preferred. I ask you, which is the most parsimonious theory: infinite universes or one designer?

B. Origin of Life Problem. Darwinists do not even have plausible speculations about how life began in the first place. In fairness, Darwinism, by definition, cannot begin until life has already begun and a self-replicating system is in place. But simply waving one’s hands and assuming a problem away is like assuming away the elephant sitting in the living room.

“Research on the origin of life seems to be unique in that the conclusion has already been authoritatively accepted . . . What remains to be done is to find the scenarios which describe the detailed mechanisms and processes by which this happened. One must conclude that, contrary to the established and current wisdom a scenario describing the genesis of life on earth by chance and natural causes which can be accepted on the basis of fact and not faith has not yet been written.” Hubert Yockey, “A Calculation of the Probability of Spontaneous Biogenesis by Information Theory,” Journal of Theoretical Biology 67 (1977): 379, 396, 377-98.

C. Irreducible Complexity. Michael Behe’s work on irreducible complexity is compelling. Various Darwinist’s claims to the contrary notwithstanding, no detailed Darwinian account of the evolution of irreducibly complex systems such as the bacterial flagellum have ever been proposed.

D. The Edge of Evolution. Once again, Behe’s work appears to be unanswerable (at least it has not been answered). Over millions of generations natural selection has been able to produce only very modest changes in the malaria parasite. Thus, the hard irrefutable “facts on the ground” suggest that natural selection is simply insufficient to account for substantial changes to organisms.

E. The Fossil Record.

One need not be a creationist or an ID proponent to understand that the fossil record does not support Darwinist gradualism: “Darwin’s prediction of rampant, albeit gradual, change affecting all lineages through time is refuted. The record is there, and the record speaks for tremendous anatomical conservatism. Change in the manner Darwin expected is just not found in the fossil record.” Niles Eldredge and Ian Tattersall, The Myth of Human Evolution (New York: Columbia University Press, 1982), 45-46.

Thus, some Darwinists say that gradualism is falsified by the evidence. But others say that gradualism is the very essence of the theory.

“Darwin’s own bulldog, Huxley, as Eldredge reminds us yet again, warned him against his insistent gradualism, but Darwin had good reason. His theory was largely aimed at replacing creationism as an explanation of how living complexity could arise out of simplicity. Complexity cannot spring up in a single stroke of chance: that would be like hitting upon the combination number that opens a bank vault. But a whole series of tiny chance steps, if non-randomly selected, can build up almost limitless complexity of adaptation. It is as though the vault’s door were to open another chink every time the number on the dials moved a little closer to the winning number. Gradualness is of the essence. In the context of the fight against creationism, gradualism is more or less synonymous with evolution itself. If you throw out gradualness you throw out the very thing that makes evolution more plausible than creation. Creation is a special case of saltation – the saltus is the large jump from nothing to fully formed modern life. When you think of what Darwin was fighting against, is it any wonder that he continually returned to the theme of slow, gradual, step-by-step change?”

Richard Dawkins, “What Was All the Fuss About?” review of Time Frames: The Rethinking of Darwinian Evolution and the Theory of Punctuated Equilibria by Niles Eldredge, Nature 316 (August 1985): 683-684 (emphasis added).

In summary, Darwinist Dawkins says gradualism is absolutely necessary for the theory to be true, and Darwinists Eldredge and Tattersall say gradualism is falsified. Thus, I conclude – based on the statements of the Darwinists themselves – that Darwinism is falsified.

Question 1.

I do not “trust” in the theory of Intelligent Design. Of the competing models purporting to explain the astonishing diversity and complexity of life, ID is by far the most plausible to me. Darwinism truly is the best theory of evolution by mindless unguided natural forces. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine such a theory that does not in some way look like Darwinism. The only other explanation on the table is intelligent design. Thus, evidence disconfirming Darwinism tends to support ID. Therefore, the answer to question 1 is to some extent the flip side of question 2. This is not to say that the data does not support ID affirmatively. It does. For example, when dealing with complex specified information, ID is the obvious inference to the best explanation.

Finally, I suspect Darwinism because it is clear that it is held by many Darwinists on religious, not scientific, grounds not because of the evidence but in the very teeth of the evidence.

“Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”

Richard C. Lewontin, “Billions and Billions of Demons,” review of The Demon- Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, by Carl Sagan, The New York Review of Books, January 9, 1997, 30-31.

I do not accept Dr. Lewontin’s religious views; therefore, there is no reason for me to accept any conclusion of his that is compelled by those religious views instead of the evidence on the ground.

Comments
bornagain 77: Thanks for putting me on to Dembski's article on the imperfections in a world created by God. It's reassuring to have someone of his calibre confirm my beliefs and to provide a rich philosophical framework to show how rational they are. I was surprised he had to overrule C. S. Lewis, but I don't think there is any other answer that makes sense.StephenB
October 4, 2007
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Daniel King: "But if there are imperfections in organisms, then the putative designer of those organisms cannot be perfect, and the perfect Abrahamic god cannot be the designer. Nor can ID’s generic designer be perfect." This is poor logic. It assumes too much about perfection and thus imperfection. It also assumes too much about the current state of things as though imperfections could not be introduced post-creation by mutations, human actions etc. - as is indeed the observed case. It also carries an element of arrogance by claiming to understand the real nature of both suffering and supposed imperfections. It assumes knowledge of an absolute rule of measure to which all things must conform. No such rule exists in the Darwinian world-view. Yet they persistently bring one of their own liking in! You will find that virtually all of the so-called imperfections pointed out by Darwinists have, over and over again been demonstrated - due to increasing knowledge, to be no imperfections at all. Indeed, any expert in anatomy (be it it human or other) will rather point out the marvels and "genius beyond genius" clearly visible at all levels of living organisms.Borne
October 4, 2007
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ReligionProf:
"Would you conclude that the designer was inept for placing the wind and food pipes together? ... was sadistic for creating insects that kill one another in the mating process? ...The design argument is not only scientifically troubling - it leads to a very troubling view of God."
I think you're making troubling assumptions here that have, on the one hand, nothing to do with science, and on the other are mis-informed presumptions about good and evil. What about humans who kill and eat animals and plants of every variety? Why have you placed moral judgments in with observation of what happens in nature and then brought those judgments to bare against the Designer? If the Designer made DNA to make humans with the moral sense, how can that moral sense also claim the Designer is immoral because of the way he made nature? Also your whole argument is based on the assumption that things have always been as they are now in nature. This is where the theist brings in the "fall" and the consequent corruption or deterioration of all nature (2nd law thermo). Your statement assumes that insects killing each other after mating is sadistic. Sure it looks sadistic to humans, but is it really? Eating hamburger would seem sadistic to cows. Is it? Your arguments are all values-based, not evidence and fact based. And you have apparently failed to notice the moral implications of Darwinism upon life. Whether man will ever understand the problem of pain is quite irrelevant to whether the designer, who has allowed death and designed the nerves that cause both pain and pleasure, is just and good or perfect or not. Suggest you read CS Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" - "Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself." "When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all."Borne
October 4, 2007
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XtremeCamera, Be very careful what you ask,,, You must NEVER EVER question things too critically or look too closely for rational explanations, for the illusion quickly vanishes, and you invite the wrath of being considered a retarded IDiot and having your name slandered all over the web. Or to put it Matrix terminology; The choice is yours and you will have to live with the consequences of your decision for the rest of your life, if you take the blue pill of complacency you are free to go back to sleep and not ask any more probing questions-- but if you take the red pill of investigation you will see the world as it really is and wake up from the illusion created by the Darwinbots!!!!bornagain77
October 4, 2007
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Daniel King: To be more precise, it would be illogical even to attribute imperfection to the generic ID God, because ID cannot confidently make the inference that original sin didn't happen. So, from a scientific perspective, the question would have to be left open.StephenB
October 4, 2007
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Because these are short comments and not full length books I realize that we must keep the focus tight in our respective posts. That being the case, here's a question that relates to natural progression, changes over time. (I realize the amateurish way I am presenting this question, but bare with me here) According to darwinists I am to believe that life started out as simple organisms with no direction, no intelligent agent whatsoever. That all living things evolved from simple to complex. If that is indeed the case I'd like to know the response to the following. 1. Without the complex design of the inner ear in all animals balance in the material world could not be achieved, correct? Don't all animals possess this balance mechanism? 2. The "first" animal, in order to survive, would also need this balance mechanism and in fact studies have shown that early dinosaurs had complex inner ears. 3. If we are to believe that all life was a long, natural, non-intelligent path, exactly how and when did the inner ear for balance come about? How did the first animals achieve balance naturally? How do you go from un-balanced to somewhat balanced to balanced? 4. Without balance you cannot survive and evolve, but without millions of years of surviving you cannot develop the complexity of the inner ear so that you can evolve in the first place. What am I missing here? Try to google "How did balance evolve" and you get nothing. Surely others have posed this question before?XtremeCamera
October 4, 2007
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Stephan and Daniel I find this following article by Dr. Dembski to be very reasonable in addressing the issue of imperfection in a world created by a perfect God. http://www.designinference.com/documents/2006.05.christian_theodicy.pdfbornagain77
October 4, 2007
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Sorry, about the misfire. Obviously, that was StephenB signing off and not Daniel King.StephenB
October 4, 2007
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Daniel King: "But if there are imperfections in organisms, then the putative designer of those organisms cannot be perfect, and the perfect Abrahamic god cannot be the designer. Nor can ID’s generic designer be perfect." Yes, your logic is sound here. Don't forget, though, that when we speak of an Abrahamic God, we have entered into the domain of religion. From that perspective, a perfect God can design a perfect universe which, in turn, can be compromised by the effects of original sin. Many Christian theologians believe that man's disobedience to God upset not only the moral universe but the physical universe as well. I realize this answer is out of bounds from an ID perspective, but there is no rule (or shouldn't be) that prevents scientists from analyzing the world from a philosophical/theological perspective. This is what Dembski was doing, by the way, when his enemies tried to lay the charge on him of intruding religion into his science with his comments about "Logos theoory." Monists are capable (or willing) to look for truth only in the context of one paradigm (Darwinism). In that sense, they are severely limited, and, in some ways, perverse. For my part, I feel free to take my ID hat off and put my Christian hat on any time I please. But I realize that is leaves me vulnerable to dishonest Darwinists, who will accuse me of leaking religion into my scientific methodology. Such is the world we live in. Daniel King:StephenB
October 4, 2007
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StephenB:
Barry A is not ruling out your interpretation in principle. ID allows for an error prone designer. ID critics, while they often do not understand intelligent design, do understand that many ID advocates are also Chrisitians. They can’t conceive that a Christian IDer could approach the same subject from two different vantage points without being contradictory. They think that by challenging Christianity’s perfect God, they have somehow made ID’s generic designer, which could but need not be perfect, seem implausible.
Thanks, SB, I understood the distinction you are making. But if there are imperfections in organisms, then the putative designer of those organisms cannot be perfect, and the perfect Abrahamic god cannot be the designer. Nor can ID's generic designer be perfect. Of course, has has been stated, the existence of imperfections in organisms can be debated.Daniel King
October 4, 2007
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I give you the de Havilland Comet. It was designed (by intelligent human beings) to have square windows, so that they would not resemble the portholes of ships. Too bad. The designers didn't know that repeated pressurisation and depressurisation of such an aircraft would cause metal fatigue in the corners of the windows and that, ultimately, would lead to fuselage failure in which, "the cabin structure ... burst like a blown-up paper bag and was ripped to pieces in a fraction of a second". When people start rabbiting on about what they regard as "poor" design (e.g., the vertebrate eye) all they are really doing (given our current state of ignorance about the details of almost all biological systems) is revealing that they are arrogant know-it-alls. All the guff about the vertebrate eye being back-to-front has now been shown to be guff but, sadly, that doesn't shut the know-it-alls up. Personally, I wouldn't mind being able both to fly and to breathe underwater but then I'd have to have different bones, a couple of extra oxygen exchange systems, gills that don't dry out while breathing air, and wings as well. Of course wings would be a problem as far as clothing and sleeping goes, and keeping gills moist enough so that they would work immediately whenever I feel like plunging into the briny depths could also be a problem. No doubt one of the know-it-alls could come up with a solution to prevent continual leakage of moistening fluids from my neck and down the rest of my body, perhaps causing the usual sorts of problems associated with constantly wet skin. Frankly, I can't. I just assume that I was optimally designed to be an air breathing, land dwelling creature of the human-being kind and therefore I can't fly and can't breathe underwater.Janice
October 4, 2007
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Dr. Dembski has a short chapter in The Design Revolution entitled Optimal Design. He also discussed it briefly in a post from a couple of years ago. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-problem-of-improvable-design/Charlie
October 3, 2007
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I have no clue what the definition of perfect is in reference to object "X"! What is a perfect designer that designs imperfection versus A imperfect designer that designs perfection versus A imperfect designer that designs imperfection versus A perfect designer that designs perfection These conditionals state nothing, all I have is meaningless statements based on mere opinions. How do I know what perfect or imperfect is when I am not the original designer, nor do I have knowledge of whether perfection is attainable. One design may not meet the standard criteria or "satisfaction" of another design. So how do we quantify and qualify something as being perfect? Is it efficiency, redundancy, is it super-flying powers? What would be a limit or threshold for object "X" for ruling it as a "better-then" perfect design after it has reached its perfect state? I don't think any of these can help ID for the most part, this is all subjective opinion-based reasoning. I don't believe this line of reasoning can help the Darwinists nor can it help ID proponents. ND'st like to point out object "X" as being imperfect for "Y" reason, how they come to this conclusion is nothing short of classical humor, IMO.godslanguage
October 3, 2007
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If someone could locate a paper or book where Dr. Dembski addresses optimum design, please let me know! Thanks!larrycranston
October 3, 2007
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Optimum design must take into account that each organism lives in an ecology. So what is optimum design? It depends upon objectives. Each organism must be limited to succeed in an ecology or else it starts to eliminate other elements of the ecology and then finds itself in a situation in which it cannot survive so this optimum designed organism goes extinct. Ecologies are much more complicated than organisms and so called "perfect design" must mean a design that is not perfect or else the organism sees/hears/smells too well, runs too fast, gets too strong, climbs too easily etc. Dr. Dembski has a paper somewhere that discusses optimum design.jerry
October 3, 2007
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StephenB: It's been a while since I read The Design Inference, but I don't recall Dr. Dembski addressing optimum design and perfect design. Can you provide citations?larrycranston
October 3, 2007
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My response was based on what BarryA wrote (which didn't appear for some odd reason) BarryA wrote: " I am also weary of “Bad design equals no design.” It too has been answered over and over. That’s why we have it in our “put a sock in it” section on this blog under “arguments not to use” I repeat that section here: Bad Design Means No Design"godslanguage
October 3, 2007
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BarryA wrote: I also like add that Bad design is subject to mere opinion, even if it is scientific. The differance between the idea of "good" and "bad" design is essentially based on purpose behind the design, purpose tends to pre-determine the function. Virtually any simple to complex design you can think of revolves around that idea.godslanguage
October 3, 2007
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Magnan you stated: I don’t think I agree here. The “observed progression” I referred to consists of a great mass of fossil evidence covering hundreds of millions of years. My impression is that most ID advocates accept this evidence as clearly showing that “evolution”, defined strictly as change with time, has occurred. Those who do not accept this are mostly Biblical creationists, and appear to be a minority. As well as this progression let's not forget to bring the other evidence to the table i.e. sudden appearance, stasis, CSI, Genetic Entropy, proven limited radiation from parent species. the vast majority of extinctions in the fossil record being very mysterious at a fairly constant rate of 3-5 million years! If you are convinced that ID is the strongest theory to explain the complexity we find in molecular biology then you must of necessity believe that information was implanted in the genome of life form-s at one time or at several times.... Putting all these pieces of the puzzle together magnan what do we find? The evidence points to CSI being inserted at the level of parent species with limited radiation away from parent species occurring while obeying the overriding principle of Genetic Entropy...As well, the Genetic entropy will explain the numerous (over 90%) extinctions found in the fossil record due to "Genetic Meltdown...The Hypothesis is strong in validation...I find all trumpeted adaptations of sub-species away from parent species always obey genetic entropy,,,that is loss of information is always detectable in the adaptation!!! Yet if you believe in ID you must find when the information was inserted!!! I find the evidence compelling at insertion at parent species...until information is demonstrated to occur by random mutation or some radical Front-loading scenario is revealed in evidence this is the strongest possible solution to the pieces of the puzzle available to usbornagain77
October 3, 2007
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Daniel King: Barry A is not ruling out your interpretation in principle. ID allows for an error prone designer. ID critics, while they often do not understand intelligent design, do understand that many ID advocates are also Chrisitians. They can't conceive that a Christian IDer could approach the same subject from two different vantage points without being contradictory. They think that by challenging Christianity's perfect God, they have somehow made ID's generic designer, which could but need not be perfect, seem implausible.StephenB
October 3, 2007
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ReligionProf, It seems your religious beliefs are determining your science. You bring theodicy arguments against ID and this is a common negative argument leveled against ID. But you are letting your theology/ideology determine what is good science or not. I have found there are four major players in this debate and three of the four have their science determined by their theology. These are the YEC's whose science must support or at least be neutral to a recent creation. There are the Theistic Evolutionists for which many believe that God would never act directly in this world which seems to be what you are espousing. For many TE's Darwinism is part of their theology because they cannot conceive of any other way that God would have the world run and thus it becomes a theological assumption. The third group are the atheists who must have some naturalistic mechanism for evolution because they cannot admit that a God exists to direct anything in this world whether directly or indirectly. Thus, it is very hard to tell the differences between the TE's and the atheists on evolution because they see the same world in terms of life forms and their history and they seem chained to their belief system as opposed to the facts. There is a fourth group which does not see any relation to what is discovered in science and their religious beliefs. For them whatever science reveals is how the world was created and controlled. So they could believe in Darwinism if the evidence pointed that way or they could accept some other naturalistic mechanism or they could accept intervention by an intelligence or God Himself. The distinguishing thing about the fourth group is that they are free to follow the science wherever it goes. I was always puzzled by the theistic evolution philosophy because how do you determine the difference between a direct or indirect control of an event in the world.jerry
October 3, 2007
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magnan, There are lots of possible ways an intelligence could intervene in the design of species and one is to create a a species with genomes that has a variety of many different alleles with the possibility that these species will be able to adapt to new environments through natural selection. In other words species could be designed to adapt. This would explain the geographical diversity we see and such phenomena as the Wallace trench separating widely different species. This is just speculation but it sure would be intelligent for a designer to do it. After all the more important and even more complex thing is the ecology and unless species can adapt they will face extinction earlier. So every species should be designed to adapt and natural selection would be a good mechanism but it requires a robust set of alleles in the genomes of the population. It supports neo Darwinism in minor ways but essentially defeats it as an over all mechanism for species change since the genomes are designed and do not come into being by mutation which Behe has just shown is extremely unlikely.jerry
October 3, 2007
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BarryA
Bad Design Means No Design By pointing out imperfections in living things it is somehow made apparent that there can’t be an intelligent agency behind it. This is really odd as it is basically a religious argument being made against Intelligent Design.
Not at all. It simply says that whatever did the designing was error-prone.Daniel King
October 3, 2007
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russ (19): ID does not dispute evolution as the observed progression of biological forms over hundreds of millions of years. - magnan (russ): Just to clarify, ID neither affirms nor denies this. I don't think I agree here. The "observed progression" I referred to consists of a great mass of fossil evidence covering hundreds of millions of years. My impression is that most ID advocates accept this evidence as clearly showing that "evolution", defined strictly as change with time, has occurred. Those who do not accept this are mostly Biblical creationists, and appear to be a minority.magnan
October 3, 2007
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I believe geographic isolation and diversity of species will fall under front-loaded conditions that obey genetic entropy.. Take for instance the human adaptations from the original parent species of humans that is thought to have migrated out of Africa 50,000 years ago. We can readily prove that loss of information (Genetic Entropy) is occurring. Tishkoff; Andrew Clark, Penn State; Kenneth Kidd, Yale University; Giovanni Destro-Bisol, University “La Sapienza,” Rome, and Himla Soodyall and Trefor Jenkins, WITS University, South Africa, looked at three locations on DNA samples from 13 to 18 populations in Africa and 30 to 45 populations in the remainder of the world. “We found an enormous amount of diversity within and between the African populations, and we found much less diversity in non-African populations,” Tishkoff told attendees today (Jan. 22) at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Anaheim. “Only a small subset of the diversity in Africa is found in Europe and the Middle East, and an even narrower set is found in American Indians.” As well we can readily see on the morphological level of humans that, since black contains all the information for the other colors, that humans are losing information for skin color (I argue losing information for shape as well). Thus from this and other strong evidences, I argue the evidence is strong for introduction of information at the level of parent species with each succeeding adaptation of a sub-species, to a new geography, resulting in the loss of genetic information. This hypothesis lines up well with the evidence in the fossil record as well,,explaining the fairly constant rate of mysterious extinctions in the fossil record!bornagain77
October 3, 2007
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The problem is that ID is not showing that we do not have the explanation for something, We can't forget the things that ID shows -- namely that design is the best explanation for certain aspects of organisms. And it does it objectively, without resort to supernatural explanations.tribune7
October 3, 2007
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jerry: "The best circumstantial evidence I have seen in support of a naturalistic mechanism is the geographic isolation data which shows that geographically isolated areas have very different species.....By the way I believe the geographical argument is the strongest in the naturalistic bag of explannations." This simplifies the argument of many ID advocates like Behe. There does not appear to be just one mechanism. Some version of random genetic change plus selection is taken to explain evolutionary diversity through the genus level and would explain divergence of forms in geographically isolated regions.magnan
October 3, 2007
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Religious Prof: Apparently, you are also not aware that Dembski has made an important distinction between "optimum design" and "perfect design." You can read about it in his book, "The Design Inference." It makes no sense to keep shooting all these arrows hoping that one day you will hit a target. Why not just do the reading?StephenB
October 3, 2007
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Religious Prof: Also, if you are going to use religious arguments against ID by suggesting that God could have done it better, why not solve it with a religious answer. God created a universe with perfect design, but the design was later compromised by the effects of original sin. If you are going to use your religious imagination--go all the way. Don't just use religion to raise questions and then abandon relgion when it provides the answers.StephenB
October 3, 2007
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I am also weary of "Bad design equals no design." It too has been answered over and over. That's why we have it in our "put a sock in it" section on this blog under "arguments not to use" I repeat that section here: Bad Design Means No Design By pointing out imperfections in living things it is somehow made apparent that there can’t be an intelligent agency behind it. This is really odd as it is basically a religious argument being made against Intelligent Design. The proponent of this argument is making a faith based assertion that God is perfect and hence incapable of bad design. ID makes no claim that the source of complexity is a perfect God incapable of imperfection. Write that down.BarryA
October 3, 2007
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